Contents Insurance

[antman]

Hi folks,

I thought I might relay a nasty (and unfortunantly true) story that certainly got me thinking in the last week or so.

A friends brother had all of his tools pinched from his workshop. This included his trailer, power tools etc etc around $30k in all. The low life scum apparantly backed a ute up, loaded everything into it and the trailer and off they went! Not good. But it gets worse. His contents insurance did not cover the contents of his shed beyond $1000 which is not much at all. All was not lost however as his house was located on the property of an organisation whose insurance did cover his stuff. He was very lucky to be covered but he had wrongly assumed that the value of his house covered his shed contents as well.

I checked my contents insurance and unless I itemise my shed items and pay approx $1000 extra premium per annum I am not covered for theft or fire. Too greater risk for the insurance companies... So, at the moment a new (and very noisy) security system and bars etc are going in to my shed.

Just something to think about..... I know this sounds like one of those neighborhood legends but this isn't. He is still discovering what was pinched....

Anthony

[AlexS]

Hmmm. Seems the best any lock will do is make your goods less attractive to the light-fingered gentry around.

I've been fanatical about engraving my licence number on everything in the hope that it will make my tools less attractive to them. The theory is that they don't like taking them because one marked tool found in their possession can lead to a whole lot more.

[BigPop]

AlexS,
Don't believe all the hype saying engraving your gear will deter thieves - although it is a great idea and your 'theory' is correct, it did work for a while a long time ago when Neighborhood Watch was in full swing - I can tell you it doesn't worry the thieves in the slightest these days - after all 99% of your common thieves these days are usually drug dependant and after something they can get rid of quite easily and make a quick buck to pay for their next hit.
Go to a Pawnbrokers and you will find things with Licence No's engraved on them and as long as the Pawnbroker (here in NSW anyway) says that the items were 'bought in good faith' he can get away with having it in his possession and if it happens to belong to you bad luck as you will have to pay to get it back because he is the owner of the goods now as he bought it - albeit from a druggie and not you the proper owner - 'in good faith'.:mad:
By all means engrave your stuff if you want to but should you get broken into (and God hope it doesn't happen to any of us) more than likely your engraved stuff, as well as any non engraved stuff will go out the door/window or any other way they can get it out of the place.

After all, locks these days are only to keep us honest people out.

Terrific system we have nowadays ey. They would to ship you a million miles away for pinching a loaf of bread and hang you for stealing a horse but nowadays you get a pat on the back instead and told not be so naughty. :mad:

[coastie]

Its a bit like motor vehicle insurance ,if you dont tell the insurance company, then you are not covered.I fitted uprated shocks and mag wheels to my car and after fitting them was told by my son,(who fitted then ) to ensure I told my insurance company they were fitted,otherwise you are NOt covered.
My ex son in law was an actuary for Western QBE told me some
nice tales about insurance, their hit mark (claims$ as against premium$ received )is in the vicinity of 11% so you can see who the winners are!

[Cliff Rogers]

Originally posted by BigPete
...Don't believe all the hype saying engraving your gear will deter thieves...

G'day.

I'll agree with that... I was on a job site about 15 years ago & got one of my tools mixed up with another guy, same tool, same brand, same condition... except he had his details engraved on his tool. It's been riding around in my kit for 15 years & in that time about 2 people have bothered to ask about the person's name on my tool. When I told them that it was a mix up on a job site, they did nothing more about it so even if the guy had reported his tool stolen, no one has ever checked to see if the tool I have is hot. I guess if I ever tried to sell it then some one might want a longer explaination.

[Dean]

I thought the idea of engraving your items was that if they were stolen, then recovered by the police, then you/they have more of a chance of identifying them and getting them back.

[Eastie]

Exactly Dean - engraving is not the be all and end all, but it is well worth the effort. It may not stop them taking it, it may not stop them from passing it on, but be sure that if the Police make a raid and recover your stuff you will be notified and you can then add to the criminal case against the low life that nicked/received your stolen property.

[Mr. Minimax]

Purchasing an item "in good faith" does not pass a good title to the purchaser. What this means is that if you find a tool that has been stolen from you in somebody else's possession it is still yours and you can take it back.
Another good reason to mark your tools!

[glenn k]

Originally posted by Mr. Minimax
Purchasing an item "in good faith" does not pass a good title to the purchaser. What this means is that if you find a tool that has been stolen from you in somebody else's possession it is still yours and you can take it back.
Another good reason to mark your tools!

You can get it back but its not that easy. I was told if you find your stuf in a recycled stolen goods store don't tell them or they may remove it. Tell the police and they can arrange for you to get it back. The store of course can not be charged other wise these shops would not exist. I heard that these shops often move stuff interstate so the owners will not find it.

[DanP]

You should never pay to get your possessions back. Take it from the police themselves (I am one). If you see your goods in a second hand store and can identify them (This is where engraving comes in real handy) you go to the police who will serve a notice to stop dealing on the Crime Converters store in question. The Store can then be charged if they remove sell or alter in any way the property in question. The owner of the goods then goes to court and proves that the item is theirs (engraving or other identifying marks of any description) The court then issues a notice requiring the property to be returned to the owner - for free. IMHO these second hand dealers should have never been allowed to come into practice. They are almost as much of a blight on society as the crooks they deal with. I personally charged a bloke with handling stolen goods who used a medicare card and a charge sheet for burglary as his ID for selling his goods. No questions asked. It's a discrace.

The second hand dealers can be charged with receiving stolen goods. As with every one else, if at the time of receiving the goods the receiver believes that the goods MAY be stolen, the receiver commits the offence. This however is not really enforced as every second hand dealer would be charged with it. Then there would be appeals and cost a fortune etc. etc.

The end result is that the detectives get a copy of the books each month and check the goods going through against what has been stolen. No good for interstate or even intersuburban stores. It's a massive industry fencing stolen goods till there is enough to fill a four ton truck (biggest for standard licence) and shipping the goods interstate and selling them to all the Crime Converters in that state.

Must stop now I think my ulcer is bleeding...:D

Dan

[Geoff Sims]

I concur with DanP. I too am a Police Officer, in WA. The laws are basically the same over here.

However, the law makers are not terribly efficient when it comes to drafting legislation as the Pawnbrokers and Secondhand Dealers Act is full of holes. Bent dealers can get away with all kinds of underhanded transactions.

Where engraving is concerned my experience shows that 90% of crooks wouldn't be deterred in the least about taking an item just because it is engraved. A $500 item, engraved or not, is not difficult to get rid of for $25 at the local pub. Such bargains are too hard to resist even by so called law abiding citizens.

Engraving is still worthwhile though in the event that the goods are recovered. Makes it a hell of a lot easier to identify the owners, providing they adopt the standard of engraving their state's intials followed by their drivers license on the article. eg WA 1234567 or NSW 7654321. Easy to track down the owners with that info.

Some of the other info engraved on property by some people is fairly useless to police though. Invisible pens, etc, are a complete waste of time. Unless all police establishments are equipped with the correct equipment to make the marks visible, they wouldn't even know the markings are there. Even less of a deterrent to crooks too.

Use your Driver's License number if you want it to be effective!!!

[glenn k]

Thankyou Geof & Dan. I have gone into Crime Converters many times mainly looking for my stuff. One time I saw a phone number on something and rang the number the bloke didn't know this small thing was missing but had lost a lot more, he was very happy that I called.
I take ser no of new looking proffessional Stihl chainsaws and ring Stihl and ask if it has been stolen found two.
Do other companies keep this sort of information? Do the police ever try this? It works interstate I would say.
Is there a web site to reg or chec for stolen goods? This would kill Crime Converters.

[bigAl]

Originally posted by DanP
I personally charged a bloke with handling stolen goods who used a medicare card and a charge sheet for burglary as his ID for selling his goods. No questions asked. It's a discrace.
...selling them to all the Crime Converters in that state.


If that wasn't so sad, it'd be downright funny!

[minis4meau]

My dad is a thief's best friend........ He had a robbery a few years back and he is such a tidy person that every tool was placed on shelves in an unlocked cupboard near his bench They were immaculately cleaned AND IN THE BOX with the instructions!!!
Bet they were pretty happy about that!
He has bequethed his replacements to me and there is no danger of them ever being clean again!
Barbara

[AlexS]

Just came back from the bush. Saw a ute there with what looked like mobile blacksmith's equipment on the back, big stuff (including an anvil) all chained up with ex anchor chains from the Queen Mary, and what looked like a couple of whichbank safes to hold the small stuff. Pity he'd left the keys in the door!

[DanP]

I concur with Geoff. We use licence numbers with 'V' on the front. Further to that take down the serial numbers of your appliances - all of them. put them on the computer but back them up to a CD or floppy. Then put the back up disc somewhere safe. Do not just save it to your hard drive. The computer will be one of the first things to go. You've got no idea how many times I've asked about serial numbers and been told they were on the computer that's just been knocked off.

Unfortunately there are no laws to stop 2nd hand dealers from transferring goods to another store after the initial holding period is up. What a lot of them do here is wait for the holding period to finish (7 days) then transfer the stuff across town to their other store. As far as I'm concerned they're all shifty and should be shut down. The whole industry is based on stolen property and keeping druggies cashed up for their fix, at the expense and anguish of your typical law abiding citizen who has taken years to build up his possessions. I won't even set foot in one if it's not for work purposes.

Dan

[soundman]

If you want to keep your stuff you gota get serious.

Slow the buggers down, make it inconvoienient & hard.

A mate had several thou of tools stolen from his shed ( uninsured ) the nex day he got serious.

He built a tool room of 32mm ply wood & put a lockwood 303 on the 40mm plywood door. Then resolved to put away at the end of each day.
Chained or bolted down every thing that wasn't easy to put away.
The we installed an alarm. A very serious one.
most of the noise makers are inside the building. So many top hat screamers that it needed a seperate power supply to run them ( very loud even with muffs).

not bulit proof but a very uncomfortable place to be if you are a theif.

Oh. he also left a heap of donged powertools arround in easy places ( sacrificial anodes).

[soundman]

Oh he had all his tools very prominently marked, never seen or heard of any of them its now about 4 years.

[Dean]

Probably never will.
Trouble is that whoever bought these from the thieves probably didn't know at the time that they were hot items. Might have found out later, but if they hand them in, then they lose them for good because its a stolen item :(
Honesty doesnt seem to stretch as far when money is concerned :(

[Kevin2003]

I find two barking dogs is a big help in keeping the crooks at bay

:-)

[Cliff Rogers]

Originally posted by Kevin2003
I find two barking dogs is a big help in keeping the crooks at bay
Only to a point....

The crook chucks a half-open can of dog food over the fence & while the dog/dogs are busy with it he opens the gate & waits at a safe distance.
Once the dogs go out the gate, he goes in & shuts the gate.
The funny thing about dogs is that they will bark while they are at home but if they are outside their normal territory, they won't.

This doesn't work if the dogs are tied up.
If they are tied up, the crook needs to have an accurate arm & a bait/baits laced with carsickness tables for dogs. (Sedatives)

Dogs are a deterrent only, not an insurance policy.

[ptc]

Get some Geese!

[Kevin2003]

If dogs aren’t any real help then maybe a better deterrent is to move to a small deserted island that’s only accessible by sea, put your workshop in the middle of the island. On top of the workshop build a large watchtower, install surveillance cameras to cover 360 degrees (better still, radar if your budget can stretch that far). Finish off by building a large razor wire/brick/steel fence around the perimeter of the island

Wonder how much the insurance companies would quote to cover that.

Just trying to make light out of a serious subject
:)

[Grunt]

If someone really wants to break in and steal from you workshop, they will regardless of what measures you put in place. Having said that, there are a number of things you can do to reduce the risk.

Dogs and Geese are excellent deterents. Decent visible padlocks are also worth it. Alarm systems that are not monitored are next to useless (how many times have you heard an alarm and ignored it?).

In the end, you need to make the thief think it is easier to break into you neighbours house rather than of yours.