shadowset or not to shadowset?

[zac a tac]

Lately we've been getting a lot of request for shadowline setting for corners, and we use beams (P50) instead of the CSR shadwset cornice, the problem is most of these guys have old homes. Which means it nearly impossible to get it straight, unless they want to fork the bill for suspension, and 11 out of 10 old home owners trying to update are on a tight budget (wink). Uneven shadowline corners sticks out like dogs balls.

We been getting a lot of negative feedback in regards to the straightness of the corners set with P50. So I've been suggesting to the boss that we should start using the CSR shadowset instead of the P50, since the cornice is much stronger and would most likely hold straighter then the P50's , but his reply was that it would not be cost effective since it would take more man hours to install and set and the cornice itself is a more expensive option, and he don't want to risk trying something new, not if it's going to cost the company more money.

So just woundering any one had similar problem with the P50, and has any one used the CSR shadowset cornice and its it still a good thing for any housed, or should we and builders alike stop recommending it to customers with old homes that might have uneven ceiling support? What are the pros and cons of the cornice? Is it too much of a hassle and not that much of a result? (at least I think so!)

[pawnhead]

Haven't heard of the shadowset, but I used P50 on my joint and it looks great. I used stringlines everywhere and planed/packed where necessary before plasterboarding the walls and ceilings though. Obviously dearer in man hours than a 90mm cove because of the setting involved, and the fact that you've got to use gappo here and there against the wall junction where the wall is a fraction out, but it looks really good IMO.
I'm going to use it against the polished floor as well, and possibly around the door jambs instead of an architrave.

edit: I just had a look at the shadowset (http://www.gyprock.com.au/Gyprock/Content/GYP936%20Shadowset.pdf) on the web, and I'm with your boss on that one. It looks like an expensive pain in the proverbial to me.
How are you going to get the same shadowline profile unless your using furring channel that stops short of the walls? You'd have to fix more furing channel than otherwise as well, or you'd have to pack the whole ceiling with strips of gyprock first. Or just mount it on top, but that profile doesn't appeal to me. http://www.woodworkforums.com/images/icons/icon13.gif
The idea is to keep it looking sleek and simple with no cornice.

Run a stringline if you want to keep the P50 straight, but you've just got to make sure that you don't use a crooked stringline. Buy a new one if your old one's bent. :2tsup:

[zac a tac]

Haven't heard of the shadowset, but I used P50 on my joint and it looks great. I used stringlines everywhere and planed/packed where necessary before plasterboarding the walls and ceilings though. Obviously dearer in man hours than a 90mm cove because of the setting involved, and the fact that you've got to use gappo here and there against the wall junction where the wall is a fraction out, but it looks really good IMO.
I'm going to use it against the polished floor as well, and possibly around the door jambs instead of an architrave.

edit: I just had a look at the shadowset (http://www.gyprock.com.au/Gyprock/Content/GYP936%20Shadowset.pdf) on the web, and I'm with your boss on that one. It looks like an expensive pain in the proverbial to me.
How are you going to get the same shadowline profile unless your using furring channel that stops short of the walls? You'd have to fix more furing channel than otherwise as well, or you'd have to pack the whole ceiling with strips of gyprock first. Or just mount it on top, but that profile doesn't appeal to me. http://www.woodworkforums.com/images/icons/icon13.gif
The idea is to keep it looking sleek and simple with no cornice.

Run a stringline if you want to keep the P50 straight, but you've just got to make sure that you don't use a crooked string line. Buy a new one if your old one's bent. :2tsup:

Yeah we doing all that already, string line then cut back or fill up to meet the line. But with older timer ceiling frames, we always get some uneven waviness at the edge of the ceiling, near where the sheet meets the timber. It's just a slight dip, depending of the condition of the timber, it's usually no more then a 30x40mm area ( which would normally be covered if using 90 or 55mm cornice). I think it might be the application of the line, we're doing some thing wrong there. But I've worked it out this morning, if we use a timber piece that's thick enough to fit in the gap but not too much that it is pushing the string line back towards the ceiling's edge, then when we are filling the joint with base coat, the timber should stop the p50 from moving out of whack too much while mud is being applied (which I think is one of the problems).

p.s. boral gave the name "shadow line trim" to it's p50 beams, that's why my boss call's it shadowline. And we all just fallow his lingo :B

[rod@plasterbrok]

The Shadow Set is a new CSR product if mounted over the ceiling as a cornice Labour wise it would be much cheaper than p50. I dont know what the cost of the product is.

As a flush finish labour wise it would be on a par with p50. You would use cleats or noggins down 2 sides of a room to fix it for a flush finish.

If you want the shadow line look then I would say the p50 angle is still the way to go.

BTW 80% of the jobs we do here in Melb are square set these days. I am not fond of the p50 finish for the reasons you mention above. The walls have to be dead straight for it to look good.

[zac a tac]

thanks for you help rod

pardon my ignorance, but what are the cleats you talk of? is it like a clamp to clamp the opposite sides of the room together or am I way off?

[rod@plasterbrok]

If you are installing the shadow set as a flush finish you will not have any thing to fix to down two sides of a room as the joist will be against the wall and the sheet will finish 100 mm or so out from the wall not reaching the joist.

Therefore to provide fixing for the end of the sheet and the shadow set the plasterer can fix "cleats" or short lengths of batten screwed to the sheet over hanging enough to screw the shadow set to them as well.

As opposed to the builder having to nogg around the perimeter to fix the shadow set to.

Using cleats would be quicker and cheper than nogging out. Provided they are fixed properly thay would be just as effective as noggins. The cleat needs to be just a bit shorter than the space between the joists and screw with 2 screws one back near the joist and one closer to the join. When the shadow set is fixed you would screw it to the joist along the wall first then to each cleat.

The shadow set is not a bad look and would be effective fixed over the top of the sheet. But as a flush finished look it would be a lot more expensive than p50.


cheers Rod