Wall paint disaster

[madrat]

We have just taken possession of our 'new' house which is definitely a renovators delight!! :oo:
We have found that on a double brick house the internal wall paint has been applied (one coat) without undercoat or sealant prior to painting.
On top of that, the previous owner of the house has put kiddie stickers all over one of the bedroom walls. When these stickers were removed, it peeled the paint off with them. :~
Can anyone advise on how to go about prepping this wall for painting properly?
Some of the other rooms have the 'bubbled effect' where the paint is starting to peel too (not as bad as the bedroom), however, the time and cost of stripping every room in the house really doesn't appeal to me.
Any suggestions??? :?
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[rmartens]

Is the wall plastered or painted on bricks?
If it is plastered I guess sanding with a pad will be a way to go but maybe your local paint store can help you just ask them.

[madrat]

The wall was plastered.
We have tried filling and sanding, but once we get one area done, we are finding that the paint is actually 'bubbling' away from the wall in patches. From that, we are bound to have to strip all the walls effected (5 x rooms at least!!):banghead:
We were just living in hope that there may be some 'miraculous cure' to slack work done in the first place.....

[frog_hopper]

If the paint is bubbling, you may have damp problems? Do you have a damp course?

[munruben]

Don't know how you removed the stickers but I use to heat them with a hair dryer and they peeled off white easy once the glue softened. I know that doesn't solve your problem but might be a handy tip to others in the same situation.

[madrat]

Thanks for your responses :U

We had a complete building inspection done and no signs of damp (thank goodness).

Some of the stickers had already been ripped off before we took possession and I really don't think they were meant for the walls in the first place. Couple that with a bodgy paint job to begin with, spells disaster.

Even where there were no stickers has some bubble patches (dammit).

We have definitely inherited someone else's bodgy work, but then again that's supposed to be the 'fun' (and i use that word lightly) of renovations.

Can someone let me know when the 'fun' begins??:;

[celeste]

Hi madrat

how old is the house?

I am reno'ing one at the mo 1970's built.

I am finding that the plaster has not been sealed B4 painting and when I removed power points etc. that the paint just peels off like a plastic coating. Is this what you have?

As pulling it all off would be a night mare and I gather that the stuff has been there 30yrs so it not going to fall off etc.

What I am doing is, in the areas that it is peeling I am pulling off the peeling bits, until I find a fairly stable bit and then using final finish plaster to tidy it up. This should also, seal the edges of the old paint. Then re painting.

In one room I had done this and then the 1st coat of paint all fine. When I did the 2nd coat I had a bubble come up about the size of a bread and butter plate. I went O! oh! :oo: Well I left it a while, whilst the paint dried and guess what it disappeared and you can not even tell where it was.:?:2tsup: who knows???

Anyway I notice you are in Perth, if you want to pop around to the reno, I can show you what I am doing re the paint or where are you maybe I can pop around and have a look?. You might be able to get away with doing what I am doing.

Celeste

[madrat]

Hi Celeste,

Thanks so much for your input. What you had, sounds exactly what we are dealing with at the moment!! Definitely looks like 'plastic paint'.

However, would you believe the house is only 6.5yrs old?? :cool:

I was doing what you did with peeling off the blistered paint, put a light coat of fill over the affected areas and then lightly sanding, but because I really didn't know if that would be the right way to go about it, we decided to seek further help.

We ended up speaking to one of the reps for Dulux Paints. He has pretty much told us to do what we were doing (same as yourself), but gave us a really thin filler (like a skin coating) and then sand to smooth.

Unfortunately, it looks like the previous owners were more into a 'quick fix' as this is now the third problem we have come across with renovating this house :mad3:.

Thanks for the offer to visit your place to have a look though.

We spent all weekend sanding back 90sqm of concrete flooring after ripping up tiles, so the paint issue is back on the list to tackle next. We'll see how we go.

Really appreciate your response.

cheers

[MrFixIt]

Hi
The wall was plastered.
We have tried filling and sanding, but once we get one area done, we are finding that the paint is actually 'bubbling' away from the wall in patches. From that, we are bound to have to strip all the walls effected (5 x rooms at least!!):banghead:
We were just living in hope that there may be some 'miraculous cure' to slack work done in the first place.....

It's a big job, BUT the ONLY way you will know and be satisfied with the result is to bite the bullet and do it right the first time by stripping ALL the walls.

You have my sympathy. I just endured something similar when painting our master bedroom. This bedroom had been painted at least three times. This time I had to patch some holes where I had removed two wall lights.

I noticed that the paint there was peeling back like a layer of thin plastic. Hmmm?

I pulled on this to peel it back, as part of the preparation for the new finish.

Ha! This piece came off in one "sheet" about 150mm wide and 300mm long :o

On inspection I discovered that the wall was never properly sealed, the piece that peeled off came away from the PLASTER, it was ALL the layers of paint in one sheet. :o Therefore the whole wall (and the others) had to be stripped.

I stood on one side of the room and walked to the other side with my scraper against the wall and one huge strip the width of the scraper just peeled away.

The room turned out nice when completed.

A weekend painting job while SWMBO was away turned into a whole week job :~

In your case you may need to use a paint stripper to remove all the paint. If you find bibbles in one spot, it may be just a matter of time before they appear elsewhere on the wall. If you don't fix the problem at first, you might find yourself buying MORE paint to recover the wall you need to strip later (after you have already painted).

BTW. If you DO end up stripping the paint off the plaster, round off the corners of your scraper to help prevent the scraper from digging in to the plaster. :)

Good luck with your task.

[madrat]

Hi Peter,

Your photos and description is exactly what we are facing!

Why do people have to be so bodgy?? :arge:

Thanks so much for your advice, as we want to do this right the first time.

I think stripping all the walls is the best way to go in the long run, but the stupidity and laziness of people absolutely amaze me!
:smack:
I guess I know what we will be doing this weekend!
Your input is greatly appreciated. Cheers!!

[echnidna]

Why do people have to be so bodgy?? :arge:



Because they watch bodgy TV reno programs that shows them how to do bodgy jobs but they're not told that the methods are bodgy.

How to become a tradesman in 30 minutes - watch xxxx program tonight.

[madrat]

Bob, you are spot on!!

These programs should be outlawed!

We starting stripping walls last night. Big bloody, time consuming and messy job, but definitely convinced it is the best way to go!

We may get our first coat of paint on in 2009!!!!

:2tsup:

[bob w]

Because they watch bodgy TV reno programs that shows them how to do bodgy jobs but they're not told that the methods are bodgy.

How to become a tradesman in 30 minutes - watch xxxx program tonight.

Unfortunately some "so called tradesmen" have been watching the same shows. Our daughter has just had a house built and the "painters" put two coats of acrylic straight over the plasterboard and when questioned on this practice stated that was what plastic paint was designed for. The builder also said it was OK and that was what all painting contractors did these days.:doh::doh:

[Jacksin]

Unfortunately its not only dodgy subbies.

Recently I did some work for a bloke changing some doors around and wondered why the paint was flaking off so easily. He had been told by Bunnings that acrylic paint would be OK applied directly to his doors previously coated in oil based enamel.

Needless to say he now has a nice collection of peeling/flaking doors

[madrat]

Hi Bob and Jacksin,

The more and more I speak to people like yourselves and get more of an insight as to what their experiences are, the more I'm starting to wonder whether anyone nowadays knows the meaning of the word 'professional'!!!
:?
And you are both right in saying that the tradies and specialised sales people (and i use that term loosely) are at fault also.

We now have no idea whether it was the tradies or the owners that have created this monster, but whoever is to blame needs to give themselves a hundred upper cuts for being so 'stupid'!

Even only yesterday, I was speaking to a complete stranger about renovating and she informed me that they 'just painted their new plastered walls with paint, no sealer used'.
:yikes:
My response....?? 'Bloody idiot, you'll be sorry'. Don't think she appreciated my reaction, especially when i explained what we are going through with our paint problem.

We have stripped all the walls that we could and they have now been replastered $$$$$ (thankyou previous owner!!) and BINDER SEALED (the magical words).
:~
The walls that were not as badly damaged, have been sanded, skim coated, sanded, binder sealed, sanded small blisters, skim coated affected areas, sanded, binder sealed, undercoated, and whoalla!! we may have had a win!!:2tsup:

This fix up so far, has put us 3 weeks behind and we consider ourselves lucky as the plasterer was very understanding of our dilemma and helped us out immensely by turning up to do the work on a weekend!!! AND did a brilliant job. Most tradies would have taken advantage of that and charge an arm and a leg, but i must say, he was a 'house angel' in disguise!!! I guess it helped that he had been faced with the same problem with a house he bought a year ago.

Anyway, we will continue with 'repairing the walls' to the rest of the house as at this stage we have only got through 3 rooms so far with the time it has taken to repair them.

Thank goodness my husband works like a trojan and can't keep still for long. We have had some very disheartening moments with this house, but we have both pushed each other ahead...(more because we can't sleep in the garage for much longer...).

How to test a marriage....renovate!

Thanks for your input guys..still interested to hear more.

[munruben]

Hi Bob and Jacksin,

The more and more I speak to people like yourselves and get more of an insight as to what their experiences are, the more I'm starting to wonder whether anyone nowadays knows the meaning of the word 'professional'!!!
:?
And you are both right in saying that the tradies and specialised sales people (and i use that term loosely) are at fault also..We have had this argument before. To employ a professional tredesman today (painter) costs around $60 an hour. Now to do the work the way you suggest is very time consuming and not many people can afford to employ someone at those prices for hours and hours of labour totaling hundreds of dollars to do the job professionally.
Tradesemen have to work according to the requirements and pocket of their customers and the customer usually wants the best job but at the cheapest price so a compromise has to be reached. We all know how the job Should be done but the customer can only afford so much and they usually opt for the quicker, cheaper job. False economy, I know but thats the way it is specially when putting a house on the market to sell, vendors just want a quick freshen up to make it look good for the would be buyers.
The best way to get the job you want is to do the work yourself or be prepared to spend big bucks.

[munruben]

BTW, the problem may not be due to poor workmanship, there can be an uderlying, natural problem with the brickwork. Bricks are prone to dampness and this does not alway show up in an inspection of the house. Bricks may be perfectly dry one day but weather conditions and atmospheric conditions can cause bricks to exude dampness under these conditions and yet be perfectly dry on other occasions when the conditions suit the bricks. Also bricks are forever moving and it can be movement that causes paint to crack or peel. Clay bricks actually continue to "grow" for some time after manufacture so you see it is not that easy to arrive at a conclusion as to what the problem is.

[bob w]

[QUOTE=munruben;633426]We have had this argument before. To employ a professional tredesman today (painter) costs around $60 an hour. Now to do the work the way you suggest is very time consuming and not many people can afford to employ someone at those prices for hours and hours of labour totaling hundreds of dollars to do the job professionally.
Tradesemen have to work according to the requirements and pocket of their customers and the customer usually wants the best job but at the cheapest price so a compromise has to be reached.

I will agree that the customer will at times restrict what a traddie can do by setting unrealistic price limitations. In the case of our daughter however she and hubbie settled on a design and then had 4 builders quote to construct without setting any limits. They then accepted the second most expensive price as the two cheaper builders left them feeling very unsure of their ability.
To my mind the builder should have ensured the painter followed the manufacturers recommendations which is to apply one sealer coat and two top coats. But both parties seem to feel the shortcut is acceptable. I'm sorry but as an ex traddie myself the best way to do a job is the correct way especially when you are putting your reputation on the line. When I priced a job I allowed for the work to be done properly and if the customer wanted a cheap job that demanded shoddy material or workmanship they could get someone else. I always had work and had very few call backs.
Cheers
Bob W:U:U

[Christopha]

Don't know if it's "tip" or not but when painting I get my sealer/undercoats tinted to the required wall colour. I am not suggesting that it take the place of a second coat of finish but it does assist with cover I find...

[madrat]

BOB, WHERE DO I FIND A TRADIE LIKE YOU??

I really don't think it was a case of brick work and weather conditions purely because of the 'result' of the overall appearance of the painting.

A 'professional' wouldn't paint the metal window frames or have their paint roller paint over the door frames ( I would like to think they wouldn't anyway). This is what makes me wonder whether it was the owner or an 'amateur' painter. Either way, it looks shocking!!

We discussed tinting the sealer, not to cheapskate (as god knows we just don't think that's worth it), but to assist with the overall coverage.

The advice we got from Dulux specialists was that it wasn't worth it as it would be too transparent to make a difference (at least in our case because we were doing so much prep work).

We were even told that an undercoat was not necessary after sealing and that we could put the colour on after sealing. However, we decided to go the whole hog and spend that little extra on undercoat. As it turns out, it was a good decision on our part.

It looks like we will get the first coat of colour on tomorrow, so time will tell.

In your case Bob with your daughter, with the cost of homes these days, I think it's an absolute disgrace for a tradie to charge as much as they do and provide a less than satisfactory and professional result.

My husband and I have no problem paying maybe that little extra to get a perfect result (and don't get me wrong, we are definitely not made of money). BUT WE WANT WHAT WE PAY FOR! And nowadays, you have to question and observe just about everyone's workmanship.

Obviously, she wanted it to be done right the first time and my hat goes off to her for being 'house proud' and sensible. Shame not more people are like that, professionals included.

I guess at the end of the day, it comes down to what you are happy with. The unfortunate thing is that sometimes what it acceptable to one person may not be acceptable to another.. and that's where the additional $$ come in to play (BEGRUDGINGLY).

Just out of curiosity Bob, if you don't mind me asking, what was the outcome with your daughter's place?

[bob w]

Don't know if it's "tip" or not but when painting I get my sealer/undercoats tinted to the required wall colour. I am not suggesting that it take the place of a second coat of finish but it does assist with cover I find...

This is a very good point you make. By tinting the sealer/undercoat it helps the first of the top coats to cover thereby making the second coat more even. This is especially useful when using a colour that has ochre tint as this seems to be a hard colour to use. Also when using red it helps if you get your undercaot tinted to a light grey or even a blue/grey. Our paint shop always suggests things like this when we buy our paint.
Cheers
Bob :2tsup::2tsup:

[Metal Head]

Hi MRFIXIT,

I was very impressed by your paint finish? How did you get that "LOOK" Don't tell me you can buy strippy paint now?:doh:

Cheers
MH

[bob w]

Hi madrat,
There are plenty of good traddies out there but there are lots of baddies in between. I guess you just have to keep trying until you find one you trust. I dont mean you have to give them work just ask how they intend to do the job and if they can do it "cheaper". All you can do from there is gauge the answers and make your decision.
In our daughters case we went back to our paint shop and bought some Duralex Everclean and ceiling white and did the job again before they moved in. We then invited the builder around to see how much better it looked after being done properly. He was pretty humbled by the experience.
Good luck with your reno's. We did the same here, completly guttered the interior and relined with Gyprock (the original was old asbestos filled fibro) added 4 square (approx 40m2) had to have all new door jambs to accomodate the extra thickness in wall lining so used new doors,arch & skirts. new bathroom,new kitchen, new office and now you wouldn't know the place. As we did all but the electrical ourselves we also kept our sanity.
Cheers
Bob:;:;

[Gooner]

I have the same problem at the moment with the ceiling on a house we recently bought. It looks as though a previous coat (or 2... or 3...) has flaked away entirely and the previous owners simply painted over everything in an attempt to hide it. The stratergy worked relatively well, because I did not notice it too much when buying the house, but now I really notice it because I have carefully looked at it and cringed at the thought of stripping the entire ceiling.

The remaining paint seems to be adhering relatively well. Therefore, I am thinking of using a filler to remove the "step" between the different coats of paint and then using something like the Zinsser Peel Stop (sold at bunnings) to make sure it does not peel in future.

Anyone had any experience with the Zinsser Peel Stop?

Thanks.

[PhoenixP]

I also have paint flaking on the ceiling in the bathroom so i'll be following this thread for any advice or tips. :2tsup:

[madrat]

Thanks for your response Bob.

We finally got the colour on the walls on the weekend and the time and money spent on the prep was well worth it.

It didn't turn out perfect, but short of knocking the whole house down and rebuilding, it was so much better than what we expected! :U

Unfortunately, we had the new kitchen installed yesterday and the plumber 'gouged' a hole out of the new repaired and painted hallway with his clumsiness just walking through with tools!! :((

At least it didn't peel!! We will repair that one tonight!

We still have four more rooms to go, but I think now we might be on the right track at last.

I don't think I would be able to 'invite' the builder/owner/painter back, even if it was to show up his/her work.

I'm a little bit too fiesty and unforgiving for that, I'm afraid. You are a much bigger person than I am :;

As it turns out, the "Kitchen people" seemed to have short changed me on a kitchen bench that has been installed in two pieces instead of one.

I know that I can get that piece in one length, because the bench opposite the one in question is longer and in one piece. So that's my next tackle.....

We didn't have a good a win with the ceiling though. No peeling, it's just that the finish was very 'patchy'. We had undercoated and painted it twice!! Don't know where we went wrong with that one???

Thanks again for the feedback Bob. Appreciate it.

[Gooner]

We didn't have a good a win with the ceiling though. No peeling, it's just that the finish was very 'patchy'. We had undercoated and painted it twice!! Don't know where we went wrong with that one???



What did you undercoat it with?

[bob w]

We didn't have a good a win with the ceiling though. No peeling, it's just that the finish was very 'patchy'. We had undercoated and painted it twice!! Don't know where we went wrong with that one???

Thanks again for the feedback Bob. Appreciate it.[/QUOTE]

Hi Madrat
What brand & type of paint are you using? Another tip our paint shop has given us is that when painting previously unpainted plasterboard is use a GOOD quality sealer then either tint your ceiling white to an almost white like "winter white" or similar or add a little black tint to the paint to take away the patchy finish some ceiling whites can give. Apparently some brands already have black tint from the factory. Where do you buy your paint? They may give you a little tint to stir in and then apply one more coat.
Cheers
Bob:):)

[madrat]

We undercoated with a primer,sealer,undercoat all in one (dulux or taubmans-sorry can't remember) and then painted with Dulux 'never miss' ceiling white (the one that goes on pink but dries white). I have used this one before in my Mum's house and never had a problem ??
We bought the paint from a Dulux Centre direct. My husband went back there yesterday and they suggested a sealer, but also advised to be careful as too many coats of paint can cause the ceiling to become 'heavy'.
Don't really want to risk doing again, if you know what i mean as if we have to go a sealer binder we will have to paint it again and who knows how many coats were on there previously to us taking ownership.
It might be something we may have to live with.
It is really only noticeable when natural light hits it, but then again we haven't got around to window treatments yet. This may make a difference??
I would rather patchiness than my ceiling falling in :U.

[honey_bee]

This is a very good point you make. By tinting the sealer/undercoat it helps the first of the top coats to cover thereby making the second coat more even. This is especially useful when using a colour that has ochre tint as this seems to be a hard colour to use. Also when using red it helps if you get your undercaot tinted to a light grey or even a blue/grey. Our paint shop always suggests things like this when we buy our paint.
Cheers
Bob :2tsup::2tsup:

Hiya,
Am putting feelers out and finding threads on here about painting over wallpaper.
Would this be a good idea if the paper is boldy patterned, just to get better coverage?
Mel :)

[bob w]

Hiya,
Am putting feelers out and finding threads on here about painting over wallpaper.
Would this be a good idea if the paper is boldy patterned, just to get better coverage?
Mel :)
One question. Why do you want to paint over the wallpaper?:? If it is boldly patterned wouldn't it be better to remove it first. Most paint outlets have a steam machine for about $30.00 per day and you can do an average room in about 2 hours and a large family type room in 3-4 hours. Unless you are wanting the pattern to show through the paint this would be the better option.
Cheers
Bob W:2tsup:

[Joister]

hi all

phew! what a decently long thread this one has been

great reading though

was reading a few posts back about sealer/binder being used on plasterboard - just a quick note to watch out when using this as it can 'lift' the paper - not lift as it remove but just make it quite spikey (if that makes sense) which means a decent sand before next coats - it's awesome for new plaster set or powdery surfaces (providing you clean and sand as best you can)

back to the plasterboard if using dulux the Acrylic sealer undercoat (purple coloured tag) seems to be a better go (or the 1 step 3 in one)

also the nap length can affect what colour is left behind after painting

anyways a couple of quick throw in's

[madrat]

Took the risk (not my decision, but hubby's) to repaint the patchy ceiling in one room to see how it would come up.
Re-did in sealer undercoat and then in ceiling white.
The only result was a very sore neck and a lot of swearing!!!
Only a fraction difference improvement wise. Everyone that has a look at it, scratches their head and has no suggestions!
Had all the window treatments go in and unfortunately they only hid a little of the patchiness (deflecting the natural light).
Final decision 1: I'm not looking up as I walk around the house :B.
Final decision 2: If hubby wants it done again, he will be doing it himself.

Thanks to everyone for their help on this one!!
:2tsup:

[jags]

hi matrat sorry to here about the ceiling ...

was the ceiling painted before you replaired it ?

is the ceiling plaster glass or gyprock ?

And did you sand it down and use a oilbased sealer primer that you let dry ?

i have just replaired and repainted the ceilings in my place and was pleasently suprised by the outcome excepted for a few spots i did not sand enough .
i used solver plasterglass sealer and dulux once i tried the solver ceiling white but it is shocking the dulux once is worth the extra $$ ( IMO )
best of luck .

[madrat]

Hi Jags
Not to worry, we did the best we could with the $$ we had.
The ceiling was plasterboard and we used an oil based sealer/undercoat. No sanding was required as the ceiling itself was in good nick, we just wanted to freshen the look up as we were doing so much with the rest of the house.
As it turns out, our '1920's' evap air-con had a mini melt down and blew out a s**t load of water which ran to a lower point in the ceiling (being the study) and water damaged that part of the ceiling leaving a nice ripple effect.
Of course this had to happen after the ceiling had just been repainted :~
That happened following the 44 degree heat on Boxing Day when the evap just decided it didn't want to work anymore!
Anyway, another job has cropped up where we now need to replace about 40 broken roof tiles and ridgecapping before 'the rains get here'.
I keep mentioning the sale of the kidney. Check e-bay, as I am sure it will be there soon. :U