POPE Weeping Pipe good to lay under turf?

[mirz]

i am planning new lawns on both front and back.

thinking about laying Legend Couch Turf, and to lay Poper weeping pipe under it.

http://www.toro.com.au/pope/product.cfm?prd=360



Part Numbers:

1010261 - 4mm x 20m Drip Eze Tubing
1010264 - 13mm x 15m Drip Eze Tubing
1010262 - 13mm x 20m Drip Eze Tubing

Features: 2 L/h emitter every 30 cm
Ideal for low pressure areas
Saves 50-60% water v's traditional watering methods
Easy to install, fits difficult corners
Economical and efficient watering
Discreet brown tubing blends into the landscape
4 mm and 13 mm ID available
One piece in-line drip tube for a wide range of residential/landscape applications for the most efficient method of watering. Drip Eze Applies water to the plants at a slow consistent rate, avoiding run-off and water wastage.

what do you suggest? is it a good idea? or i should go with sprinkler? (sprinklers are not allowed in Melbourne due to water restrictions).

[Tools]

The local council has been putting this in the ground to water the old trees,and the grass grows really well in the 300mm either side of the pipe,but the water doesn't seem to be getting much further than that.It is very obvious where the pipe is buried!

Tools

[mirz]

thanks Tools for your reply.

my rear lawn would be 7m deep and 10m wide, so that means i should run about 11 rows of this weeping pipe to cover whole area.
(7000/600) = 11.6
lawn is 10m wide, 10m x 11 = 110m weeping pipe
it cost about $1 per m, which makes about $120 to cover whole rear lawn.

how deep this weeping pipe should be under turf? right under turf or under 50mm top soil layer?

[Sir Stinkalot]

(sprinklers are not allowed in Melbourne due to water restrictions).

Isn't lawn watering restricted as well in Melbourne?

[mirz]

yes it is restricted, and thats why i am planning to use grey water with weepers.

but sprinklers need lot of pressure on their back.

thats the main reason why i am inclined towards weepers

[woodbe]

Also try Netafim:

http://www.netafim.com.au/

Some of this stuff is turning up at bunnings. Their techline product is supposed to be better for subsoil irrigation as it has some anti-siphon device to help prevent suck-back. I'm using some of their purple 3L/minute product for the wastewater treatment plant effluent and it seems to work well.

If you have a look at http://www.netafim.com.au/index.php?sectionid=79 you will see two photos showing the before and after of a subsoil irrigation project:

http://www.netafim.com.au/uploads/Landscape_Subsurface_Domestic1.jpg

After:

http://www.netafim.com.au/uploads/Landscape_Subsurface_domestic2.jpg

Very impressive..

woodbe.

[mirz]

thanks Woodbe for your input, looks very impressive.

same Techline is also $1 per meter, plus they recommended to buy one Tech-Filter per zone, which is $120.

will have to find out, how deep it should be from turf? 50mm or more than that or less than that???

[woodbe]

On the wastewater lines I have in the garden, I have installed Moss pressure reducer/filters which cost about $10 at bunnings. I think our treatment plant must be operating well in the sediment department as the filters never seem to collect anything. Netafim specify #120 filters though, no idea what the Moss filter grade is. Haven't seen a dripper clog yet though.

Netafim also have all sorts of useful drain-down and flush valves in their range. Maybe useful to allow the pipes to empty of water which might help reduce roots finding their way in.

Once we get the wastewater treatment plant sorted, I'm planning to install a small area of techline and some nice turf just to make the neighbors jealous :D

woodbe.

[mirz]

finally today i bought whole setup from a local supplier in Melbourne. cost me $545 for both front and back yard. very happy with their service, professional advise and did not try to ripp off at all.

but if someone is interested in finding out very descent prices, checkout following website:

http://www.duralirrigation.com.au/onlinestore/index.cfm

their prices seems very good, but i went to a local shop because i was confused regarding few points.

[Planned LScape]

The only thing with cheaper drip lines is that depending on design the holes can clog up over time with dirt and silt, the more quality ones like TechLine have a 1-way hole that water can only enter in 1 way and can't allow foreign material in

Netafim tends to be usually good though

[mirz]

thats the one which i bought, its called NetaFim Techline AS (anti syphin).

[woodbe]

Mirz,

don't forget to post photos of your installation, I think there will be a lot of interest as this stuff seems to be the way to go.

Someone was telling me recently that for trees, they mage a circle of the techline the same diameter as the trees drip circumference and bury it under the surface. Apparently works a treat.

woodbe.

[mirz]

Mirz,

don't forget to post photos of your installation, I think there will be a lot of interest as this stuff seems to be the way to go.

Someone was telling me recently that for trees, they mage a circle of the techline the same diameter as the trees drip circumference and bury it under the surface. Apparently works a treat.

woodbe.


no probs. tomorrow i will have to remove small path of leftover grass roots, and after that will be ready to setup Techline AS.

for tree they actualy recommend a wedge type long thing which takes water deep direct into its roots.

this following pdf file has all accessories:
http://www.netafim.com.au/uploads/Irrigation%20System%20Accessories.pdf

[SilentButDeadly]

We use that stuff everywhere we can....always cheaper from the irrigation supplier like Water Dynamics than a hardware store.

I can recommend Dural Irrigation both as a website but more importantly as a shopfront. Great store, helpful people and decent prices....surprising really when you consider their location in a part of north western Sydney known for expensive tastes in hobby and lifestyle properties.

[mirz]

finaly its there, only last confusion i have that water is keep coming out from Flush valve (from its top holes, like small spray) is it normal or i did something wrong.

all the rest has gone fine, finished too late, it was very dark. will take pic tomorrow and post them here.

[mirz]

here is what i did:

this is just side of house (ex-owner planted 13 confier trees here, its 1m x 22m) was nightmare before. dont have pics of that.

but in last two weekends chopped all those tree, removed their stumps, cleaned it and now used 50mm layer 14mm Tourqy stone with 400x400x40 tiles on them one 1m apart.


other two pics are from before and after make over

[mirz]

here are pics for piping what i have done, took me too long to resize these pics.

soon it will be connected to grey water setup.

at the moment i am testing it to make sure it will work once it would be burried.

pls pass your valueable suggestions, thanks

[woodbe]

Looking good.

Bit of a dry patch near the meter, what are you going to plant?

woodbe.

[Qldp]

Not sure of the rules down there, but in Qld we are made to keep it 2m off all footings or buildings. Its supposed to be 2m off boundry lines, but that isn't as important.
It would pay to check what your regs are there. I know, no-one will ever know you did it that way,but I have seen footings move and crack walls. One house was in clay the other was in good draining soil.

[mirz]

Looking good.

Bit of a dry patch near the meter, what are you going to plant?

woodbe.

thanks woodbe, i just noticed that too now after you mentioned. will put another line there to cover it.

planning to put a garden border in U shape, with some hardy plants like yucca, and fill garden with loose Tourqey 14mm stones for look.

in center planning to put Sports Couch (only one available at the moment), this small front lawn has about 9 hours sun in summer and 6 hours in winter, so wont have shade problem for Couch.

[mirz]

Not sure of the rules down there, but in Qld we are made to keep it 2m off all footings or buildings. Its supposed to be 2m off boundry lines, but that isn't as important.
It would pay to check what your regs are there. I know, no-one will ever know you did it that way,but I have seen footings move and crack walls. One house was in clay the other was in good draining soil.


thanks for your comments here, thing with these weeping pipes, ( i have tested to run them with for 2 hours) they dont deliver too much water which can create any trouble.

i dont realy have picture after 2 hours, but its just enough to make roots wet and keep your plants and grass alive. thats the reason these pipes are considered water saver at the moment.

i m planning to run water through them max twice a week for 1-2 hours. that will bearly make top soil wet.

much appreciate for passing your advise.

[notenoughtoys]

what are the raised items in your 4th and 5 th photos. I'm interested in a drip system myself. I have installed two 200 litre drums to act as a reservoir for grey water and then I'm planning to run lines through my garden with drippers at the plants/trees or would weeper hose be a better solution, I'd welcome any advice.

We have had a bio septic system for ten years so all the plants I installed were moisture loving plants and they have gone really well. Last year Sydney Water (SW) put the sewer through and told everyone we have to connect which I've recently done so the gardens are looking tragic already.

I proposed to SW that I keep my Bio system but put a an overflow from it into the sewer so that in periods of heavy rainfall etc I could divert it into the sewer rather then saturate the ground. Needless to say thinking outside their usual box was too much of a challenge for them. I even wrote to the relevant minister, local member etc pointing out that with future water restrictions forecast they should be encouraging such systems but rather then support such innovation, it was all too hard. Anyway sorry for hijacking the post with my whinge.:C

Back on subject, any advice on the best way of distributing gey water?

[mirz]

what are the raised items in your 4th and 5 th photos. I'm interested in a drip system myself. I have installed two 200 litre drums to act as a reservoir for grey water and then I'm planning to run lines through my garden with drippers at the plants/trees or would weeper hose be a better solution, I'd welcome any advice.


Pic 4 is Flush Valve, it flushes out remaining water form the tube one very watering cycle. about 4L.

Pic 5 is a Vacuume release, just to prevent any vaccume in your weeping tubes.


Flush valve should be on low spot of weeping tube so it can easily flush all left over water.

on other hand vacuume release device should be on highest point of weeping tube. (but i think it can go almost any where in middle too.)


my problem at the moment is that water is keep coming out from flush valve all the time, its not a leaking joint, its coming out form actual flush valve holes, intended to just release water on end of each cycle.

can someone pls tell me what wrong i have done here, thanks.


you can connect your grey water system to weeping system, but main theory behind weeping system is that nothing should clog it form inside, so make sure you filter grey water thoroughly before it will enter your weeping pipes otherwise it will block weeping holes form inside and everything will stop.

i am planning to install this one to get water from laundry to weeping tubes, with kids we almost use our washing machine twice a day, which will give us enough water to water our lawn twice a week:
http://www.justwheeliebins.com.au/epages/whitelabel4.sf/?ObjectPath=/Shops/justwheeliebins/Products/homewaterbowser

[DaleBlack]

Hi Mirz, Planned Landscape Constructions, all

Mirz wrote "finally today i bought whole setup from a local supplier in Melbourne. cost me $545 for both front and back yard. very happy with their service, professional advise and did not try to ripp off at all."

Can you guys recommend a decent drip line supplier/store in Melbourne (other than Bunnings) that is knowledgable enough to answer some layman questions?

I will draw a rough map of the garden, (clay) to take in and decide whether to go Miniscape, Techline etc.

Also, price is not of course everything, however do you find these smaller shops comparable to say Bunnings? The linked shop in Dural NSW had great prices but after freighting down to Melbourne maybe not so competitive.

Cheers and thanks

[Bleedin Thumb]

My theory is that if it needs watering its not worth growing. Its more than admirable to be reusing grey water because you are infact naturally filtering it before it re-enters the water cycle - however I think that turf is not what we should be planting.

Besides the fact that you have to use energy to maintain it - it does bugger all as a carbon sink and has little habitat value.

I have inherited some grass areas at my place and am slowly converting them to garden beds the remaining stuff can't be termed lawn anymore due to lack of maintenance.:-

I'm one of those neighbours that you guys would probably be embarrassed to live beside:D:D

The local wildlife like me though.:p

[Planned LScape]

Hi Mirz, Planned Landscape Constructions, all

Mirz wrote "finally today i bought whole setup from a local supplier in Melbourne. cost me $545 for both front and back yard. very happy with their service, professional advise and did not try to ripp off at all."

Can you guys recommend a decent drip line supplier/store in Melbourne (other than Bunnings) that is knowledgable enough to answer some layman questions?

I will draw a rough map of the garden, (clay) to take in and decide whether to go Miniscape, Techline etc.

Also, price is not of course everything, however do you find these smaller shops comparable to say Bunnings? The linked shop in Dural NSW had great prices but after freighting down to Melbourne maybe not so competitive.

Cheers and thanks

I go to Pumpworks in Peel St Eltham, very knowledgeable and helpful. But others I do know of are Planned Irrigation in Huntingdale Rd, Wave Irrigation in Hoppers Crossing or Malvern (i think). Prices will be higher as they sell the better quality items than Bunnings but will also be very helpful towards someone who need the advise

[mirz]

bought mine from here, would highly recommend them

TURF & IRRIGATION
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=dealerlocation>499 FERNTREE GULLY ROAD</TD></TR><TR><TD class=dealerlocation>NOTTING HILL</TD></TR><TR><TD class=dealerlocation>VIC, 3168</TD></TR><TR><TD class=dealerlocation>Australia</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD class=dealerlocation>Phone: 61 3 9540 0722</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[rhancock]

i am planning to install this one to get water from laundry to weeping tubes, with kids we almost use our washing machine twice a day, which will give us enough water to water our lawn twice a week:
http://www.justwheeliebins.com.au/epages/whitelabel4.sf/?ObjectPath=/Shops/justwheeliebins/Products/homewaterbowser

When you say you'll water the lawn twice a week, do you intend to store water until you are going to use it, as you should use it within 24 hours.

I've been looking at this for a couple of customers, but it doesn't seem to have any filters in it? So any lint etc in you washing machine water will end up in your pump or blocking your weepers.

The picture of the sprinklers on the lawn is a bit dodgy too, as its generally accepted that grey water should be distributed below ground.

And am I right in thinking that it doesn't have an overflow pipe? :o

I won't recommend this system to any customers until I'm happy it isn't going to give them grief.

[mirz]

When you say you'll water the lawn twice a week, do you intend to store water until you are going to use it, as you should use it within 24 hours.

I've been looking at this for a couple of customers, but it doesn't seem to have any filters in it? So any lint etc in you washing machine water will end up in your pump or blocking your weepers.

The picture of the sprinklers on the lawn is a bit dodgy too, as its generally accepted that grey water should be distributed below ground.

And am I right in thinking that it doesn't have an overflow pipe? :o

I won't recommend this system to any customers until I'm happy it isn't going to give them grief.

just to answer your concerns here:

1 - my Bosch washing machine has built-in lint filter, and i dont need extra filter after that.
2 - so far using only water from washing machine.
3 - there are no sprinklers (dont know from which pic you got idea that i have sprinklers) can you pls mention pic# with sprinklers :?
4 - there is overflow pipe, its called flush valve, its orange one in pic. would you please explaing if your overflow pipe is different from Flush valve, thanks.
5 - so far i have not found any trouble with keeping water upto 48 hours (but during this time we generaly take couple of buckets out every now and then to water pots plants).

[rhancock]

My comments were not aimed necessarily at you, but were my observations on this particular system, and in particular that this company does not inspire enough confidence in me to allow me to reccommed it to clients.

The picture of the sprinklers is on the home page of the website - see picture below.

I can't see an orange outlet on the picture - do you mean the drain tap? If so, this seems to be used to drain the tank without using the pump. However none of the fittings they describe will stop the bin from overflowing if the hoses are blocked, or the grey water isn't used up quickly enough. What happens when the bin is full of water and you put more water into it? Obviously if you are diligent and always empty the water, then there won't be a problem, but it's an obvious flaw which is easy to correct.

I'm sure you haven't had any problem keeping your water for 48 hours, as long as you are aware that the rules are 24 hours only. I'm as happy as anyone else to bend the rules, but its important to know what the rules are and how far you're bending them.

Overall, I think this is a fantastic product, but it needs to be better implemented to convince me. In particular, adding a filter and an overflow outlet would be simple. Here's a good filter: http://www.tanksnake.com.au/

Of course I could add both of these myself, but that defeats the point of buying a prefabricated system, I mean I could easily create the whole system myself, although it wouldn't be purple!

Of all the grey water systems I've seen, I still think this is probably the best on the market, for the most realistic price, but it isn't quite up to my standards yet!

[mirz]

i think we both were talking about two different things :)

sorry i was talking about my inground piping setup, and you were about purple bin system. sorry my mistake.

[DaleBlack]

Hi Mirz,Planned Landscape Constructions, all

I think I will head past Turf and Irrigation and pumpworks on the weekend,

Mirz - can you remember how much per 50m roll the 13mm TechLine AS PC was?

Q1: Also what dripper spacing length did you choose ie 30cm,40cm or 50cm - I noticed the netafim website recommends the 50cm spacing for clay soils, which I have in the northern suburbs of Melbourne.

I will be laying it along a corner picket fence, 35m long, in a 600mm garden bed. Only Trees though. Each metre will be a silver birch or some such tree and then just bare soil.

Q2: Would i be best to run 19mm poly and then cut in a circle of Techline around each tree or snake Techline in and out around the trees as I go? Just concerned the snaking technique only results in only one half semi circle of tree roots being watered

Q3. Or should i use the micro tube spikes to deliver water to the tree roots
Q4. In garden beds, vegies etc not turf, how far down in a clay soil do you place the tubing? On the top under 1inch of mulch only or 15cm down below?

Cheers and Thanks

[Planned LScape]

Dale, just referring to your post above, the Turf & Irrigation store you are referring to, if it the one in Edgars Rd Thomastown it's no longer there (sold). Something happened I think business wise and the other stores are now over the eastern suburbs

[mirz]

Hi Mirz,Planned Landscape Constructions, all

I think I will head past Turf and Irrigation and pumpworks on the weekend,

Mirz - can you remember how much per 50m roll the 13mm TechLine AS PC was?

Q1: Also what dripper spacing length did you choose ie 30cm,40cm or 50cm - I noticed the netafim website recommends the 50cm spacing for clay soils, which I have in the northern suburbs of Melbourne.

I will be laying it along a corner picket fence, 35m long, in a 600mm garden bed. Only Trees though. Each metre will be a silver birch or some such tree and then just bare soil.

Q2: Would i be best to run 19mm poly and then cut in a circle of Techline around each tree or snake Techline in and out around the trees as I go? Just concerned the snaking technique only results in only one half semi circle of tree roots being watered

Q3. Or should i use the micro tube spikes to deliver water to the tree roots
Q4. In garden beds, vegies etc not turf, how far down in a clay soil do you place the tubing? On the top under 1inch of mulch only or 15cm down below?

Cheers and Thanks


yeah, Thomastown store is closed for good.

A0: i bought one 200m roles of techline AS 30cm one, it was $209.

A1: i used 30cm spacing, because i used top soil every where, paid $45 per cubic m from Roxburgh garden supplies, they also charge $15 cartage for my area. with top quality top soil 30cm spacing one is best (IMO).

A2: polypipe and techline combination is good where you run poly pipe all around and then run techline between them. if you are going in one straight line, better use only techline. but dont use techline if you are going to connect Spikes.

A3: IMO if its for trees and above ground then better use polypipe to carry water, and then use spikes.

Techline Anti Siphon (AS), is worth only if its going under dirt.

A4: for vegie garden i think 10cm under ground level would be good enough, no evaporation, and all water will keep root moist.

[DaleBlack]

Hi Mirz,planned landscapes, all

I went and bought some Techline (30cm dripper spacing 1.6Lphr) and assorted fittings. Please peruse images and offer any criticism as to my layout.

Flowrate at tap, 40-45L per min.

I was thinking of running 3 straight lines but only bought 2: 19mmTee>13mm connectors so used the looping system. I may still convert it to the 3 lines and also dig it under to 10cm.

The images are after only 15mins watering and I have since tightened the loops and elongated them further to try to eliminate dry areas. Working on the 300mm either side rule.

Problem 1
was that when i shut the system down water gushed out of the grey Air release valve, though i had it lower in the system after the poly leaves the brick wall opening and slopes downwards. Replaced directly under filter as per pics. Some water still comes out of it though as I shut it down. Is this due to the sideways mount? maybe I should have it still near the filter but mounted on an extension pole directly upwards.

Problem 2 - Constant filter housing leak, causing a water to spread out next to foundations and brick wall.

As per the image with the red arrow, there is a leak where the filter housing tightens. It appears the o-ring beneath the threaded housing is not working properly? Overtightened? its the same tensions as it left the shop, slight tighten did not help.

Should i go for another brand or just replace that filter back at the store?

Problem 3: I notice the flush valve operates quite violently at the start, hitting the ground around it with a high pressure. - Is this normal

Question 4: Those using a Galcon or similar, do you leave your tap fully open? or just a few turns to reduce pressure? (realise there is a press reducing valve further down)

Question 5: I kept the first line 35-40cm off wall - is ground soaking and having vegie garden next to the wall an issue? foundation/cracking wise?

[woodbe]

Dale,

Is one of those fittings after the timer a pressure reducer? If not, better grab one, they are inexpensive and will save problems later. I have some normal drippers that the town supply repeatedly blew off the line until I put the pressure reducer in.

In the photos, it looks like you have used some white tape on the irrigation fittings. They are designed to work without tape. I dunno if that is the cause of your leaks, but it might be...

woodbe.

[mirz]

nice work mate. yeah flush valve flush water on every startup. plus it throws sometime when you close your tap (i think its normal)

regarding water leakage, in my case it was between brass tap and filter/reduce, so i used white plumbing tape on brass tap's thread, which worked fine.

but for all other joints between plastic parts, there are rubber selas, and you need to tighten them carefuly, and water leakage will stop.

when i connected everything first time and turned my tap on, water leakage was almost in every joint, which made me nervous, but just needed to close platic joints so their rubbers seals will be intact properly.

i always open tap to full and there is no leakage anywhere. pressure reduce/filter take care of the rest.

i used small flags in every seperate area to see if water flow is fine. but its up to you.