Faux Bakelite?

[Ian Wells]

You probably will all think I'm mad (this will bring a flurry of comments), but can any one give me any hints on how to get a Faux Bakelite surface on timber/MDF ?
I was thinking a gesso, stained with bismark brown, then shellac with umber. then matted off with a wax.
Any better ideas? I'm after a brown or tortiseshell.

Cheers
Ian

[MacS]

Ian,

I posted a tortiseshell reply before, it must have gone out into the ether.

Here, is a photo of what we call a tortoiseshell, there are several variation of this finish where a yellow, orange, red, ect., are used to create this faux finish.

Is this what you are looking to do?

[Ian Wells]

thanks Mac , totiseshell is a good fallback, but I was looking to recreate that slightly dead resinous surface that dark brown Bakelite has for some trim for a few 1930's Art Deco pieces.

ps couldn't find your tortoiseshell article either.

thanks
Ian

[seriph1]

Hi

I reckon MDF would be easier than timber as it has no grain to display its origins. I am thinking that you'd achieve this with gloss chocolate enamel that is tinted nearly black, then rubbed with 0000 steel wool to knock the shine back to a sheen .... I'd be very interested to know more about the Art Deco projects!

[MacS]

Ian,

Here, are some things I did for faux Corian, which are various base colour coats, and then flyspecked with different colours.

I think, that if you used a brown base colour coat, with tan specks that might work for you, or you could also use a tan coloured glaze, and then "dab and mottle" out the glaze out like mablilizing.
I could add a photo showing "marbilizing" in black and white showing the dabbing and mottling, if your interested.

[MacS]

Ian,

Here is the technique for doing the "dab and mottle" that is used for doing faux finishing.

It would work for your Bakelite project, just change the base coat colour to a brown and the glaze to a tan and then dab and mottle it out.

I thought, I would post this any way, so that others who maybe interested could see it.

I hope it helps.

[s_m]

I know someone who has done faux bakelite on dash and other car interior he's restoring. I could ask him for details if you like?

Steph

[MacS]

Ian,

Are you reffering to the bakelite colors of the old outlet electrica boxes, or the plastic composition that they use for the auto dash boards?

Some of these look like burling and come in different colors, like the attached photos.

[Ian Wells]

I know someone who has done faux bakelite on dash and other car interior he's restoring. I could ask him for details if you like?

Steph

thanks steph that'd be great , the more ideas the better,
cheers
Ian

[Ian Wells]

Ian,

Are you reffering to the bakelite colors of the old outlet electrical boxes, or the plastic composition that they use for the auto dash boards?

Some of these look like burling and come in different colors, like the attached photos.

Thanks Mac , I really appreciate your suggestions, had a look at you links too, strongly recommend them to anyone else reading this post
I'm after a darker colour , probably closer to the electrical boards, i think if I play around with the techniques you've suggested I should get the effect I'm after.
A friend suggested that old broken 78's let down in ethanol would probably brush on as a rich black similar to the black Bakelite, but I'm keen to get an effect similar to below.
58927
I'll try to get a test panel or two done this week if I get time and post the results (I have to stain and lac a couple of hundred metres of skirting and architrave and get it up this week as well as all the other regular jobs)

thanks
Ian

[MacS]

Ian,

It could be done either ways, with a black base color, and a glaze of what looks like burnt sienna /black, or a reversed glaze using burnt sienna /black base color and a black glaze.

Either way you can control colors with dabs and mottling.

Are you familar with oil glazes? How to make and use them? What clear coating will you be using.

[Ian Wells]

Thanks Mac, I'm a full time artist/painter and have worked as an artists colourman for many years both here in Oz and in the UK. You are right, an oil glaze will give me a lot more control in the mark making and if I varnish with a ketone resin then I'll get a nice hard finish. I'm becoming a fan of ketone as I've developed an allergy to damar and colophony
Out of interest, what sort of oil glaze do you use , I make one using stand, linseed, gum turps, terebine driers and fumed silica.
I was thinking of finishing some of the pieces in a sandarac/lac blend instead as I've found this gives an incredibly durable surface that has a nice hard feel or "tap" which is akin to that of Bakelite.
The other option, I've found good as a clear coat is Golden MSA varnishes. I tend to avoid estapols and urathanes as I've seen to many beautiful pieces ruined by them and they often have a "plastic" soft feel.

cheers

Ian

[Big Shed]

Ian, another good replacement for damar etc is coumarone indene resin. Used extensively in varnishes, it gives a good hard coating (depending on percentage used). It is similar to ketone resins, but not quite as clear.

[MacS]

I do not understand your chemical jargon on the coatngs, I'm sure you both understand each other.

When you mention "ketones" I think of nitrocellulose and not varnish, is this what you refer too. I think some names you use are product names, and are not names we use over here..

Well, any way, this is how I make my oil glaze, it is a very simple and basic glaze. Its probably similar to most home - made glazes and colour washes.

Maybe, posting this will help some others who maybe interested in learning about the art of glazing.

Use either one of these drying oils.

Boiled Liseed Oil or 100% Tung Oil - which serves as the binder, and is used to allow extra time for working out the glaze for fine and faux finishes.

Pigmented OIl Colourants - is used for the glazes colour

Mineral or White Spirits - is one of the common solvent used as the carrier, and to control the viscosity of glazes or washes.

[seriph1]

Just had a further thought - ROBOT Trading has a range of translucent products available in sheet form I think, that may lend themselves to your ART DECO projects.

If you call their head office and ask for Yann Boulic, he is the product expert for that range.

[ubeaut]

G'day Ian - Just out of curiosity where are you getting your stand oil from or are you making it yourself? Are you using long or short oil? It has become really hard to get but I have a few liters of each, which I guard jealously for special uses.

Cheers - Neil

PS as for the affect you want I would be inclined to use an of white or cream base and apply the darker colours over the top even try a bit of sponge dab and soften it with a light rub out. Could do it pretty easily I reckon as per the sample but describing it isn't any where near as easy as doing it.

[Ian Wells]

Hi Neil, I'll email you some contacts directly, but for the sake of the forum can I suggest to others reading that most "good" Art shops will sell it as its used for its leveling ability and enamel like gloss in oil painting. I'll try not to go into a mini lecture about drying oils here, but Stand oil is more an additive than a finish on its own, using it straight will guarantee a sticky mess that will attract fluff faster than a fat mans belly button. It needs to have drying agents and solvents added to make it useable.

Stand oil is a commercially made version of sun thickened linseed oil (Polymerized linseed oil), which anyone can make by putting non boiled linseed oil in an airtight jar adding glass marbles to take the top of the oil right to the top of the jar and thus excluding any oil. Seal the jar and place in the sun for a few weeks.
The oil should be clear 'long' and honey like and quite clear. Painters claim that it is less prone to yellowing than pure linseed, but I think this is more a case that it is bleached by the sun.

If you use cold pressed oil its best to wash out the mucilage by shaking it in a jar of clean cold water ie. 1/3 water, 1/3 linseed oil 1/3 airspace then letting it setle for a few hours, the mucilage should be in the water and you can just pour off the oil as it will rise to the top.

hope this gets a few folks thinking.
cheers
Ian

[RETIRED]

Hi Neil, I'll email you some contacts directly, but for the sake of the forum can I suggest to others reading that most "good" Art shops will sell it as its used for its leveling ability and enamel like gloss in oil painting. I'll try not to go into a mini lecture about drying oils here, but Stand oil is more an additive than a finish on its own, using it straight will guarantee a sticky mess that will attract fluff faster than a fat mans belly button. It needs to have drying agents and solvents added to make it useable.

Stand oil is a commercially made version of sun thickened linseed oil (Polymerized linseed oil), which anyone can make by putting non boiled linseed oil in an airtight jar adding glass marbles to take the top of the oil right to the top of the jar and thus excluding any oil. Seal the jar and place in the sun for a few weeks.
The oil should be clear 'long' and honey like and quite clear. Painters claim that it is less prone to yellowing than pure linseed, but I think this is more a case that it is bleached by the sun.

If you use cold pressed oil its best to wash out the mucilage by shaking it in a jar of clean cold water ie. 1/3 water, 1/3 linseed oil 1/3 airspace then letting it setle for a few hours, the mucilage should be in the water and you can just pour off the oil as it will rise to the top.

hope this gets a few folks thinking.
cheers
IanAir or oil?

[s_m]

Posting the info I received from my friend for how they did a bakelite effect on car door interiors and dash (1940-something Oldsmobile).


The metal surface was primed and undercoated. It was then painted in the base brown colour to give the effect depth.

Deep Brown Printers ink from the Canberra Times was applied using coarse foam sponge from Clark Rubber. We used a manual "dabbing" application method (small sections at a time).

Heavy paper was scrunched rolled and roughly applied and rolled across the soft ink to give it a textured finish and to remove any excess. The ink was allowed to dry, it took about a week.

A clear coat of paint was then applied to seal off the Bakelite finish. Using wet and dry sand paper at 2000 grit the clear coat was cut back to a smooth finish. Brasso applied to a soft cloth in a circular motion was used to remove fine scratches. A clean cloth was then used to polish the area were the Brasso had been used to remove the scratches in the opposite circular motion.

The printers ink is the secret ingredient that worked for us.

We did find some ariticles in the Library but they had a stronger focus towards creating a woodgrain finish for car dash boards, but we did find that the principles and methods used were very similar.

Steph

[astrid]

innovative and cheap(inexpensive)
amazing what you can do with a little imagination:2tsup: and i dont see why it wouldnt work on timber
Ill copy this one for the file

astrid

[MacS]

Ian,

Its pretty close to how I do my faux burlings, except my techniques can be completed in a couple of days.

Ian, if your interested in doing a faux woodgrain, here is one I did with a tan base coat, black grain lines, and a VDB glaze, then it was clear coated.

Any combination of colours with work, but you will need a metal grain roller to add the grain lines.

[Ian Wells]

Air or oil?
add enough marbles to exclude the air, i meant to say, but if you can add enough marbles to exclude the oil as well send me a photo and I'll send you a prize!
:U