Very Bad Professional Sand/Polish job - How to fix/reslove?

[fsck]

We paid for a someone to sand and polish our floors with very very poor results. I've attached some photos which highlight some problem areas and are pretty indicative of the state of our floor. I'm hitting some walls trying to get the floor people back to discuss a resolution and i'm concerned that they might cut some corners.

My thoughts is it would need to be resanded to get rid of the existing drip marks (as per the first image on the left) but i am also concerned it would have soaked into the wood and would then need to take too much off the top again when it's sanded.

So, my question is, what is the best way to fix it?

P.S. A water based urethane was used if that makes a difference.

[Larry McCully]

The only way to fix it is to totally resand it again. Have you paid for the job ? . If so i would take it directly to the dept of fair trading, and recover your money.

[Larry McCully]

You will still be able to sand it again. Polyurethane doesnt soak in . It sits on top of the timber, If you were to slice a bit of the end of a coated board, you will see no saturation into the board. Resanding should only take of about 1mm.

[fsck]

I paid in full before completion - bit of a mistake but i had faith.

The Sander / Polisher person is popping out tomorrow in the morning to have a look. I'll keep this thread up to date with what eventuates.

Thanks - Ben

[Dusty]

My recommendation is, you give the guy who did this a fair dinkum smack in the mouth, then get all of your dough back and have a real sander do it for you, and only pay him, after it's been done to your satisfaction.

Don't let this idiot re-sand it, any fool willing to walk out and leave a floor like that and say that it's finished doesn't deserve another chance.

#*!@ him.

[Gaza]

what the..........

do what dusty said and in the balls too.

[glock40sw]

what the..........

do what dusty said and in the balls too.


Ditto.

Also, spread the word that the bloke is a butcher.
And let him know that you are going to tell all & sundry as well.

You should get full refund. If not, Fair trading.

Keep all photos, communications and record all conversations.

They will be needed if Arbitration is required.

[Larry McCully]

Get a another sander out to give you a written report on the condition. This will give you knowledge on what you can expect from a contractor and also go to a timber supplier and grab a brochure on timber floors. Show him the brochure a state that you want the same quality of finish in the pictures. It is not hard to provide a perfect finish . that contractor is lacking in the knowhow, what you see on the floor is a common fault with the water based sealers that are used. If you want to use a waterbased finish, the best thing to use as the first coat or the sealer coat as the pro's call it , is to use a sealer used for solvent based polys. It does not stain the floor as water based sealers do. (that is a innercircle trade tip)

[Larry McCully]

what the..........

do what dusty said and in the balls too. OUCH

[Gaza]

Get a another sander out to give you a written report on the condition. This will give you knowledge on what you can expect from a contractor and also go to a timber supplier and grab a brochure on timber floors. Show him the brochure a state that you want the same quality of finish in the pictures. It is not hard to provide a perfect finish . that contractor is lacking in the knowhow, what you see on the floor is a common fault with the water based sealers that are used. If you want to use a waterbased finish, the best thing to use as the first coat or the sealer coat as the pro's call it , is to use a sealer used for solvent based polys. It does not stain the floor as water based sealers do. (that is a innercircle trade tip)

What you are suggesting is using toby rapid seal with toby water based, the waterbsed selaers that are used with waterbased coatings have to be matched to the typre of timber.

Bona sell two differnt selaers for use with mega / traffic a high tan sealer is used with timbers like blackbutt,

Although we have used rapid sealer with bona its best to use a complete system.

This bloke should not have put on the first coat after the selaer went pear shaped, he is trying to the ditch and run.

[fsck]

He finally rocked up, looked at the floors agreed they were poor. His explanation - "Too much hardener in the polish, must be a bad batch"... hrmm??

Anyway, he has agreed to resand and have another go in two weeks, starting the nov 10th, finish on the 13th. The timing is awkward as we are not staying at the house currently and very eager to move back home, not to mention my wife is 30 weeks pregnant.

I'll keep this thread up to date.

Another question, how long do we let the floor cure?

[OBBob]

Wow ... if his reputation is worth anything to him you'd think he'd be straight back. You shouldn't need to wait two weeks ... if yopu really want to give the guy another go then I'd be atleast perparing a back-up plan 'cause he may not show in 2 weeks.

[123]

I wouldn't count on him showing up in a couple of weeks, then again, in saying that, sometimes the coatings don't go to plan, even some of the best floorsanders out there have problems from time to time. you may have to get an accredited member of the timber flooring association out there to do a report on the floor if it all goes bad!

A good lesson for everyone, don't pay until all work is complete and satisfactory!

[pawnhead]

I would think that he ought to give you top priority, and push his other customers back since you were first in line, and his reputation should be at stake.

I'd be pretty cranky, and I wouldn't be too happy at being stuffed around if I was waiting to move in. It's often the squeaky wheel that gets the grease, and if he's planning on doing a 'no show' then it's better getting cranky now than later. :wink:

[Wongo]

I agree. A good responsible tradesman should fix it right away. He didn’t show you any urgency here. If he really cares he will find time. What about at night or on the weekend?

To ask you to wait for another 2 weeks is quite arrogant really. If it was me I would do whatever it took to fix it.

[Gaza]

stuff this bloke ask for your money back NOW, if its a bad batch then why is he not bring the manufacter to have a look so that he can be paid to rectify it from the manufcter.

find out what product it was and get them there ASAP then get it redone.

[Larry McCully]

In the middle picture you can see swirl marks. These are made from using a 120grit sanding disc and not a screen grit, Now that may not mean much to you but a lot of sanders use this method to flatten the floor after they have sanded it, This procedure is fine but he needs to use at least a 150 grit sanding disc followed up by rigerious use of 180 grit screen grit then to make sure that there are no swirls a close up visual of thye floor to make sure they are gone. After inspection he needs to finish of with a 220 grit screen just in case some thing got missed. If he does the same procedure that he did in the first place you will have them showing up all over the floor and you will get verry cranky. You do the inspection. When a floor is sanded is to look like a panio top. A sanding disc and a screen grit are two different things. He will Know what i mean.

[fsck]

He is scheduled to swing past again on the 6th to do the kitchen floor (kitchen guy is starting on the 19th) and then the rest of the house on the 10th. I'll keep an eye on him this time around.

Once again. thanks for the info.

[Blackout]

Any progress?

[fsck]

Attempt #2 - Failure Nov 6-8
More time wasted. Just did the kitchen this time around. 2 coats one day. Final coat the next, came in the morning called me and said he wasn't happy.

Attempt #3 - In Progress. Nov 14-15
Changed to a solvent urethane. Two coats yesterday. Final coat scheduled for today. I've only peeked thru the windows and it looks better. Will take photos when it's done.

[pawnhead]

Attempt #2 - Failure Nov 6-8
More time wasted. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/GoofySander-1.jpg

[fsck]

Final coat still not done. He's using a moisture cured urethane and with the heat wave and humidity levels it hasn't set. He's going to try wet mopping to try help things along.

I walked around the house this morning, it's still looking average. Hopefully the final coat helps out but I'm not holding my breath on this one.

Plumber is arriving tomorrow morning at 10am giving the floor less than 18 hours to set, kitchen guy starting on monday. We are still living at the in laws and the baby is due in 6 weeks.

[glock40sw]

G'day.
I hope he isn't puting a moisture cure over a solvent based finish.

Who is this clown? I'd be taking photos of everything, cause this is going to get messy from a litigation point of view.

[OBBob]

I feel for you FSCK. There's enough to deal with when you have a baby on the way! Hope it goes better than you expect.

[Larry McCully]

Final coat still not done. He's using a moisture cured urethane and with the heat wave and humidity levels it hasn't set. He's going to try wet mopping to try help things along.

I walked around the house this morning, it's still looking average. Hopefully the final coat helps out but I'm not holding my breath on this one.

Plumber is arriving tomorrow morning at 10am giving the floor less than 18 hours to set, kitchen guy starting on monday. We are still living at the in laws and the baby is due in 6 weeks. He needs to leave it alone. Tell him to not wipe it with a mop. If there is humidity then there is enough water in the air to do the job. Just leave it and it will harden. It just will take a couple of extra hours. Do not let him put the final coat on for about 3 days. And tell him to use a brown magic pad when he cuts it back between the coat. This is a pad that is about 500 grit but is made from a scotchbrite type of material and is available from floorsanding suppliers. designed for oils and wont scratch the surface leaving swirl marks. But will still key in the floor to allow adhesion of the next coat. Also get him to apply the next coat early in the morning to avoid the heat. This guy needs a helping hand.

[MatterHorn]

Hey fsck, this sounds like a bit of a nightmare job. Hope it all works out okay for you.

[fsck]

In the middle picture you can see swirl marks. These are made from using a 120grit sanding disc and not a screen grit, Now that may not mean much to you but a lot of sanders use this method to flatten the floor after they have sanded it, This procedure is fine but he needs to use at least a 150 grit sanding disc followed up by rigerious use of 180 grit screen grit then to make sure that there are no swirls a close up visual of thye floor to make sure they are gone. After inspection he needs to finish of with a 220 grit screen just in case some thing got missed. If he does the same procedure that he did in the first place you will have them showing up all over the floor and you will get verry cranky. You do the inspection. When a floor is sanded is to look like a panio top. A sanding disc and a screen grit are two different things. He will Know what i mean.

Well, he's come back and completed round 3 (my floors could be getting quite thin), with the moisture cured urethane. Much better but certainly far from 'good'. He did come in to look at things and offered to do another coat, by that stage we had been out of the house for what seems like forever and with over a month since the first attempt we'd had enough.

Probably the most annoying is all the swirls in the wood, underneath he finish - See attached. The camera does not do it justice.

When he called me after finishing the job he said he was happy with the result.... but i'm not.

[Wongo]

fsck,

It could better but I think it is acceptable. Don't worry about it too much. By the time you put all the furniture back you would forget about it in no time.

[OBBob]

Hi FSCK, it's a bad situation. I'm sure you have avenues to persue him further but I know exactly how you feel just wanting to get past the disruptions!

[Mcblurter]

The last thing you want to be doing is going through all the stress of sorting this out when you will have a baby soon. And in a few years time your floors will be full of dents, scratches, crayon, food, spew, poo etc etc so you won't notice the swirls!!!!!
Good luck with the baby.
Cheers
McBlurter
(Father of two floor wreckers aged 18 months and 3 and a half!!!)

[fsck]

I've been undecided if it's a pass or not.

I thought i was being too fussy but you can certainly see the marks while standing and today i had a chance to sit down in the lounge room. The marks are very eye-catching in the morning sun.

I noticed these marks and questioned the floor sander about them on attempt 1 (as per the original thread middle photo), he said that i wouldn't be able to see them when it's all finished. :(

oh well.. such is life.

P.S. - thanks to everyone who was following the thread, your contributions are appreciated.

[Larry McCully]

Hi dude, i know how you must feel, it is disapointing to look across your floor and feel second best, If you have the time and the patience to go one step further. Get a other floorsander in to give you a report, Get a pro that has been around for a while and works for himself and not subbies out his work. Then go to the department of fair traiding and ask the question if you are able to get a refund from the original guy. If they say yes then pursue it further. With your report in hand demand a refund and if nesserry advise him you will take legal action and all legal costs will be claimed as well. You may need to get two reports. Have your solicitor draw up a letter of demand and serve it apon him. Your solicitor will take about 2 days to do this. Then set a date for the small claims court and go for it. You have already given him the oppertunity to rectify the work , but has not completed it satisfactory. You have the reports to confirm this. If you have the money are then able to get someone else to resand and do a proper job, then do so while you are waiting for the court case to happen. This is the last step bro, those marks never go away.

[Larry McCully]

Doing all of this may be painfull and inconvienent, but it is better to get it done now and out of the way. Soon you will be able to enjoy your floor and all of it will just then become a conversation topic.