Advice (to make sure im on the right track)

[Bain]

Hi All,

Could you experienced types please confirm that Im getting all the bits and peices required (at a fair price) to successfully build a deck/pergola out the back of my house?

It will be attached to the house using a ledger for the deck. All but the deck will be primed and painted.


Deck/Pergola
4500x4500 (20sq/m)

Ledger: 140x45x4500
Stumps: 1500 spacing
Bearers: 1500 spacing
Joists: 450 spacing
Pergola Beams: 240x45x4500

Materials.

Deck:
2x Cypress Pine Dressed Seasoned F7 Timber Posts (115x115x3000) @ $26.90/m = $161.40
9x Concrete Stumps (100x100x500) @ $8.25/m = $37.15
5x Bearers Treated Pine H4 (140x45) @ 7.80/m = $175.50 (1 of these is the ledger)
10x Joists Treated Pine H4 (90x45) @ 5.20/m = $234.00

Pergola
4x CCA Kiln Dried Treated Pine F5 H3 Laser Cut Beams (240x45x4800) @ $13.30/m = $255.35

Merbau Decking
Im not sure which one to go.. 70 or 90.. At the moment im swaying towards 90mm

90mm $3.75 (special) @ 277 l/m = $1038.75
70mm $2.85 (special) @ 357 l/m = $1017.45

(the above is costed at 25sq/m instead of 20sq/m to allow for mistakes)

Total: $1902.15 (using 90mm merbau) or $1880.85 (using 70mm merbau)


Besides screws, joist hangers, framing anchors etc.. Does this sound about right?

The rest of the pergola will be built at a later date. I wish to add in a hipped roof when the time becomes more available (in the new year)

Edit: Cement.. How deep are the concrete stumps meant to go and roughly how many bags of cement would be needed for this project?

Thanks for any info you can give me!
Bain

[Honorary Bloke]

I will watch this thread with great interest. Anyone here want to spend two hours going over the list with no plans posted and then take a silly guess? :?

[Groggy]

I will watch this thread with great interest. Anyone here want to spend two hours going over the list with no plans posted and then take a silly guess? :?I think what HB is driving at is, even a hand-drawn sketch would give us an idea of your needs.

As for the stumps, I'd normally put 1/3 of them in the ground (but if it is a two storey deck then that changes things). An experienced deck builder I'm not, I've only done about four smallish ones, although they are some tradies on the forum who may help here.

[ger]

Hi
I am looking at doing a similar deck 6m X 4m
so will also be interested in this post

Is it better to use concrete stumps oo
use timber with metal brackets in concrete
cost difference/effectiveness??


Thank you

[namtrak]

Looks to me like you've done your homework, a fair bit more than some anyway.

How about either a pic of the site or a sketch of what your looking at. I think some of the punters here are using the free Sketch Up? software for mockups

I think you've miscalculated the number of stumps, possibly should be 16 and the spans your looking at are dependant on the sizes of the timbers being used. You may need to refer to some span tables to be right on the money, failing that your supplier can give you a heads up.

[Bain]

Oh lordy!

My bad guys, i could have sworn i typed in its only 500mm from the ground.

Sarcasm is not needed fella's.. We were all novices at this at one stage..


Looks to me like you've done your homework, a fair bit more than some anyway.

How about either a pic of the site or a sketch of what your looking at. I think some of the punters here are using the free Sketch Up? software for mockups

I think you've miscalculated the number of stumps, possibly should be 16 and the spans your looking at are dependant on the sizes of the timbers being used. You may need to refer to some span tables to be right on the money, failing that your supplier can give you a heads up.

There is a ledger on the house, if it were off the house that would make the 16 stumps.

Im downloading Sketchpro 6 now and will try my hand at drawing it up.

Ill also take a pic of the area it will be built in.

[thebuildingsurv]

You might wanna include double joists for the ends depending on how you wish to finish the decking, what about the beam that picks up the pergola rafters ? is pergola unroofed ? what about battens ?

[Honorary Bloke]

Sarcasm is not needed fella's.. We were all novices at this at one stage..

You're right. We were all novices at one stage. But, sarcasm is one of god's gifts to humanity. No ill will intended, only a bit of welcome to the forums. Don't get yer knickers in a knot.

Anyway, you've got some good advice (apart from mine), so go for it. And no worries, I am just a curmudgeon. Ask anybody. :)

[Bain]

You're right. We were all novices at one stage. But, sarcasm is one of god's gifts to humanity. No ill will intended, only a bit of welcome to the forums. Don't get yer knickers in a knot.

Anyway, you've got some good advice (apart from mine), so go for it. And no worries, I am just a curmudgeon. Ask anybody. :)

Its all good :)

I have whipped up a Sketchup drawing.. Its quite a good little product once you get used to it.

Does this help in any way to confirm what im spending/need?

Joist spacing is 450 and bearer/stumps are 1500

http://members.optusnet.com.au/miltonf/house/[email protected]

[zathras]

Great sketchup model.

One thing though, your joists are lying on their sides!

[Bain]

Great sketchup model.

One thing though, your joists are lying on their sides!

lol yeah i know, i was doing it at work and realised i had done that after making the components.. i just went with it.

[pawnhead]

It looks like you've done your homework, and your prices look right. Ask for a discount since you're getting a bit of quantity there. An order worth a couple of grand should get you about 5% off. Shop around.
One thing, I'd only allow about 5% wastage (offcuts) on the decking, but you may have to pick up an extra stick if you're unlucky and end up with big offcuts. 10% wastage would be heaps, and then you could toss the odd rough bit that you may get.
A bit of decking left over comes in handy for all sorts of things, but unless you've got something in mind, I wouldn't get an extra five square metres.

[Bain]

It looks like you've done your homework, and your prices look right. Ask for a discount since you're getting a bit of quantity there. An order worth a couple of grand should get you about 5% off. Shop around.
One thing, I'd only allow about 5% wastage (offcuts) on the decking, but you may have to pick up an extra stick if you're unlucky and end up with big offcuts. 10% wastage would be heaps, and then you could toss the odd rough bit that you may get.
A bit of decking left over comes in handy for all sorts of things, but unless you've got something in mind, I wouldn't get an extra five square metres.


Thanks for the info pawnhead!

I went a bit overboard with the decking as we are still deciding whether to use the extra for steps or plantaboxs around the yard.. And figuring ive never done something like this, im sure my wastage will exceed 5% (hoping it wont though)

[silentC]

Couple of observations:

1. You might want to check the span of that pergola beam. I presume there's no roof going on it, but the widest span in my tables for a verandah plate under a sheet roof is 3600 and it is about a 240x70 member.

2. How are you planning to fix the end joists to the back of the posts? If I was doing it, I would carry the bearer past the post and have the joist come all the way through on the outside of the post. The joists would also carry on past the bearer. I would also have a joist against the inside of the post. When I put the decking down, I would run a board along the outside joist, parallel to the joist and mitre it into the first board across the front, which would also be outside the post.

[pawnhead]

How are you planning to fix the end joists to the back of the posts? If I was doing it, I would carry the bearer past the post and have the joist come all the way through on the outside of the post. The joists would also carry on past the bearer. I would also have a joist against the inside of the post. When I put the decking down, I would run a board along the outside joist, parallel to the joist and mitre it into the first board across the front, which would also be outside the post.That would look neat if you don't want to see the ends of your decking.
You could also lift the end bearer up flush with the joists (and attach the joists with joist hangars), and mitre the perimeter joists to it. Then you won't see the ends of your joists.

[silentC]

With mine, I've run the bearers through at joist level all the way through and the joists all butt into the back of it. Mine is all steel but the same principle applies. You don't see the ends of any joists and you don't see any end grain on the decking (except in two places where it doesn't matter). All you see is the face of the bearer and the long grain edge of the decking.

I have a full board that runs the full length of the deck on the outside of the post, so all my posts are 'set back' from the edge of the deck by 90mm. I reckon it finished it off nicely with the balustrade. The bearers are 50mm, so there is an over hang of 40mm. I prefer that look to the blunt look.

[silentC]

Here's one I finished a few weeks ago.

[pawnhead]

That looks very neat. The mitred board gives it a touch of class. :2tsup:

[Bain]

back to drawing board for me!

I love that look silentc!

[silentC]

Just be warned, the mitres can and do open up a bit. I've got a couple that have been in for over a year now. They still look OK but if you look directly down from above, there is a slight gap. The secret there is to bevel the edges with a few swipes of a block plane (as I do with all the butt joints) and it makes it less obvious.

I've considered putting a horizontal cut through the mitred corners and gluing or pinning in a spline. So far none have gotten bad enough to warrant it, but it's still on the cards.

[silentC]

BTW you can see a bit of a dark line that runs down the face of the bearer just in front of the post, which might look like the mitred end of the bearer. In fact that is the tannin that leached out of the merbau after a couple of mm of rain fell on it. The stuff is like timber stain, so keep that in mind with anything you do, including painting the posts and bearers.

[bpj1968]

You might need to recount your posts, I count 10 + the 2 cypress.
Joists you have 10 at 450 centres. You will actually need 11. one at 0, then 10 every 450 = 4500.

Where are you in Melbourne?

[Bain]

You might need to recount your posts, I count 10 + the 2 cypress.
Joists you have 10 at 450 centres. You will actually need 11. one at 0, then 10 every 450 = 4500.

Where are you in Melbourne?

Thanks for that, i was counting and recounting last night and discovered the additional joist.

Im over in Edithvale.

Ive decided to use joist hangers as we would like the deck lower than originally planned. Ive also decided on a corner step so we can support the pergola span a little better..

Heres an initial layout. Still a work in progress and pretty rough.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/miltonf/house/newdeckroughlayout.jpg

[pawnhead]

I'd drop the internal bearers below the joists if you have room. It saves all those joist hangars that you'd otherwise need. The structure would be more solid with the joists continuous over the bearers as well. 4.8m is a standard length for your joist timbers from timber suppliers.

Also, if you're taking silent's suggestion of a mitred perimeter board, then you'll need double joists (with a packer in between) running out perpendicular to the house, and not on the outer edge, parallel with it.