Alternatives to using lacquer in schools?

[NOFUNATALL]

Hi everyone, I'm a 2nd year Industrial Arts High School teacher looking for alternatives to using lacquers in the classroom. Whilst lacquer mixed 50/50 with thinners gives the students a nice semi-gloss/satin finish, dries quickly and is relatively cost-efficient, there's a few downfalls as well.

We don't have separate finishing rooms and the fumes are killer.. after a day in the workshop surrounded by students lacquering I'm high as a kite with a massive headache haha! But seriously, it can't be any good to be breathing the fumes in day after day for both the students and myself.

I was having a talk with my colleagues and we went through a few alternatives. One was obviously Estapol. However, it takes hours to become touch-dry, meaning the students get only one coat on per lesson.

I was wondering whether anyone had any healthier alternatives in mind that would be suitable for schools, i.e. durable finish, relatively cost-efficient, decent drying time, easy clean-up?

One colleague mentioned the possibility of melting beeswax and combining with turps and linseed oil? Would this be a feasible finish?

Thankyou all in advance! :)

[astrid]

Why does it have to be durable, by which i assume you mean heat and scratch reistant.I also assume that these are for take home projects
If you use shellac not only can they put on 3 coats in an hour but you will also teach them to respect furniture.and its cheap
I have mixed jellied danish oil and bees wax to reproduce a 300 yo patina
this is easy and the finish is harder than wax but softer than danish oil, it will still take time to dry

hope this helps
astrid

[astrid]

shellac only really takes timeand skill if you are using it for a french polish finish, bodying up and all that,
you can get a lovely finish, just btushing on a coat, rub back with 0000 steel wool apply another coat etc then wax, they are students so thet will learn more this way tthan using a synthetic and if they messit up they can wash it of with meths its cheap safe and the smell is negligent

[watson]

:wss:

[durwood]

Shellac as suggested by Astrid is probably the only easy alternative but you would have to brush it not spray as you are still have the same problem. One coat of it brushed is about equal in thickness to one coat of lacquer. Your students could put on a few coats one lesson and then do some french polishing next lesson.

Estapol is far worse than lacquer if you are worrying about the safety of the students. Being 2 pack puts it into a lot higher risk factor and OH&S rules would result in you possibly being banned from its use in your workshop completely. Such materials are why spray booths and air fed face masks are now compulsory in the paint industry. With lacquers because they dry so fast they only become a problem if they are being used as you are doing ( in a confined area with no way for the fumes to be extracted) Is there no way you can do the lacquering out doors? or with ventilation of some sort.

I know schools have serious problems getting suitable equipment because of finances but a small canopy booth would solve your problems. Even if you made a portable unit up and placed it in a window when you want to use it. As long as you have a bit of distance away from other school activities or classrooms you would be far better off.

All you need is to somehow create an air current that makes air flow from behind the student past the object being sprayed and away from its rear to the outside of the building. Between your teachers and those in metalworking ( if you have it at your school) you should be able to put something together.

A canopy booth is basically a bench with enclosed ends and top with a fan behind the back of the bench leading to a duct extracting air outside the building. If this is possible I can elaborate on its construction as it needs to be sensibly engineered to work safely but it is an easy build exercise.

[powderpost]

I have had some success using single pack estapol diluted with 10% mineral turpentine, applied with a rag, in a similar fashion to the traditional 'french polish' style. It touch dries fairly quickly. Lightly rub back with 0000 steel wool between coats. The down side is that you only mix enough for one session as the mixed estapol will 'gel'. Not a perfect solution, but this method will produce a durable result.
Jim

[Burnsy]

I was considering trying Organaoils Burnishing Oil for the next lot of projects as I like the fact that they have to work on the finish and the finish obtained is related to the effort put in? Anyone got any comments on this suggestion?

[rsser]

NOFUNATALL, you might consider making up your own 'Danish Oil' with 50/50 turps and boiled linseed oil. Wipe on, wait for a few minutes, wipe off. Hardens in a few hours; takes 2-3 coats.

But Astrid is right, a shellac finish will be the quickest to dry and fairly cheap. Can be brushed or wiped. Only wrinkle IMO is that it takes a fair few coats to fill coarse grained woods.

Another option which I've yet to try is wipe-on Poly.

Burnsy, the Hard Burnishing Oil does take a bit of effort and in my experience raises the grain after a few weeks (on woodturnings) so you have to come back and knock it down.

In any case many oils darken light timbers too much (though can really bring out the contrasts in figured darker timbers).

[Added: another home grown oil recipe is equal parts BLO, turps or white spirit and poly.]

[billbeee]

Hi,
About nine years ago I did some etching courses at our local uni. We used very thick oil based inks.
To clean the plates we had two choices. Use vegetable oil (takes ages) in the workshop, or use mineral turps (quick) outdoors. The two or three of us that used mineral turps outside were a bit like smokers today. For a long time before then there had been a push for solvent free workshops.

I am surprised they let you use any sort of solvents in a school without some sort of extraction system.

Astrid gave the best answer straight away, shellac and meths is definitely the way to go.

Just as an aside, notice that I said mineral turps, that is the product from oil wells. Any of you guys that brew your own finishing recipes ever use proper gum turpentine? You guys that have never seen it, find some and have a smell. A really distinctive and pleasant smell like distilled pine shavings or sawdust.

Cheer
Bill

[RufflyRustic]

Burnsey

I found using Organoil's Burnishing oil can sometimes give me a massive headache.




I would also support Astrid's suggestion of using Shellac.

cheers
Wendy

[scooter]

NOFUNATALL, you might consider making up your own 'Danish Oil' with 50/50 turps and boiled linseed oil. Wipe on, wait for a few minutes, wipe off. Hardens in a few hours; takes 2-3 coats.

[snip]

[Added: another home grown oil recipe is equal parts BLO, turps or white spirit and poly.]


Without wanting to be a pedant, Ern, the former brew probably wouldn't be considered a Danish Oil, just an oil finish (one I use & like, BTW :) )

Danish Oil usually refers to a mix than contains oil and some sort of varnish, such as the second recipe you gave.


Cheers.................Sean

[rsser]

Without wanting to be a pedant Sean, that's why I put it inverted commas.

Seems anything with oil and a solvent plus the Colonel's secret herbs and spices can have a DO label slapped on it.

[Shedgirl]

Hi,

Just as an aside, notice that I said mineral turps, that is the product from oil wells. Any of you guys that brew your own finishing recipes ever use proper gum turpentine? You guys that have never seen it, find some and have a smell. A really distinctive and pleasant smell like distilled pine shavings or sawdust.

Cheer
Bill

I have used a lot of both gum and mineral turps as a photo restorer/hand colourist (before computers rendered me redundant!) and there are health isssues with both. Gum smells better, but one of the nastier side-effects is that is mood altering and can cause severe and long-term depression. I only read that years after I stopped using it, but it's a worry.

[Shedgirl]

Astrid, what is "jellied Danish oil", and how did you use it?

[AlexS]

Just as an aside, notice that I said mineral turps, that is the product from oil wells. Any of you guys that brew your own finishing recipes ever use proper gum turpentine? You guys that have never seen it, find some and have a smell. A really distinctive and pleasant smell like distilled pine shavings or sawdust.


Trouble is, it's worse for your brain & liver than mineral turps. Sniffing is definitely not recommended.

I'd go with Astrid's recommendation - one coat of shellac, then sand or buff with OOOO, then oil. I use Kunos oil and Bio-thinners - no headaches there.

[rsser]

Jellied DO sounds like DO that's gone off in the can.

If it's just starting you can get a bit more mileage by straining through a stocking (after evicting the owner of course) and thinning with White Spirits.

[astrid]

you probably know this , but you can also mix it with bees wax to simulate a really old wax patina.

how was the BBQ, i wanted to catch up and deliver a parcel but didnt have the adress

mel

[rsser]

Mel, I didn't know it til I read the Peninsula turners website recipe. Interesting.

... 'fraid hayfever kept me at home today. Good you didn't waste a trip; thanks for thinking of it though.

[kiwigeo]

Ubeaut Hard Shellac can be sprayed. PaulB has done so on some of his acoustic guitars with great success.

[astrid]

I got it from a friend about 2 years ago
client had bought a $20,000 gate leg table in the cotswolds and tried to turn it aubergine with shoe polish to match her chairs:rolleyes:
when i disolved the shoe polish expecting to find impervious patina there was nothing but raw timber( I had suspected its credentials anyway) so I rang a friend who learned the trade with GG.
he told me how to do it . it came up a treat just like a 300 yo wax

mel