skirting boards

[mayoh]

doing home reno replacing skirting boards. Does anyone have any tips to get a good finish. I was going to use my Triton and cut at 45deg, but wall angles vary. I am sure there are some good tips out there. Help??

[Shane Watson]

do a search on this board as this subject was covered a little while back and explained well how to achieve professional results. Cutting 45 degree's ain't the answer. You need to cope the joints.

[mayoh]

searched on skirting and looked through the articles but couldn't find anything. If you got any other info on what I should search on that would be appreciated.

[BigPop]

Mayoh,
I guess you are wanting to know how to do the internal corners???
I've only known it as 'scribing' but it may be called something else.
Have done a heap of them when I built my own place plus the couple of reno's I've done but trying to describe how to do it on here is a bit hard.
Someone may have a simpler way of explaining it for you than what I can.

[soundman]

how to scribe skirting ect

ahem.

first cut yourself a short length (about 2") of the mould in question.

to scribe an end view the length of material as it will be fixed hold up the 2" bit to see how the two will mate in the corner.

then take th short length and scribe the profile of the on the back of the molud to be fitted with a sharp pencil.

then cut the mould with a fret saw to the line.

result.
in the corner one mould should run square al the way into the corner.
the mating piece should but neatly to the profile of the first piece.

at 90 deg it reasonably easy at other angles it gets fiddly you need to jig the angle when marking.

takes practise. don't be afraid to trim for a good fit with a sharp chisel or file.

makes sence to me?

[BigPop]

Soundman,
An easier way I found to get the profile right is to cut the moulding on a 45 from front to back with the longest part at the rear (if that's clear) then using a fret or coping saw about 1 to 2 mm down from the top cut longways along the top 'pointed section' till you come to the front face. Then cut down following the profile. Put it into the joint and the small protruding piece on top of the other moulding and then it makes it look like a 45 deg cut for both mouldings.

Mayoh
I told you it was not easy for me to describe

[soundman]

Seems good to me. if you are in a position to cut an accurate 45.

[Shane Watson]

I tend to use Bigpete's method as well...using a coping saw hence coping the joint ;) it honestly sounds harder than it is.

[mayoh]

Thanks Big Pete.

If I understand correctly, I will end up with a 45 mitre for the top 1 - 2 mm and a butt joint for the rest. Very tricky. I will give it a go on the weekend.

[BigPop]

Mayoh,
Yep you got it right - the top 'little piece' still has the 45 cut in it and then the rest is virtually a butt joint.
As Shane has mentioned -
it honestly sounds harder than it is.
Just do a few test pieces and you should get it - as I mentioned it's asctually harder to explain than to do and once you get the hang of it its as simple as anything

[Marc]

From one that has put in a few kilometers of colonial skirting board, I couldn’t possibly do the butting method since the profile would make it extremely fiddly, but my question is, why do it in the first place? What’s wrong with 45 º ?

In my experience, the difficulty in getting a snug fit when cutting at 45 º, besides crooked walls, is the fact that the wall corners are not clean cut, and the sharp end of the skirting boards don’t go all the way so it is impossible to press one timber against the other because the tip hits the wall first.
Solution is simple, either dig the corner of the wall out or cut at 45 º but take the edge off with a hand plane. The missing edge is hidden against the wall.

If the wall is out of square by a little, I adjust the angle of the cut with a sharp hand plane, if the angle is out by a lot, I adjust the cut on the saw, after doing a few you get to know your saw and start getting all the joints nice and close.

If you are doing big rooms, you will probably need to join boards along a straight run. Look for the stud before you cut so to join right on the stud cut at 45 / 45 and nail both boards with thin long nails. Sand with a block and Bob is your Uncle, and he will never notice the joint. ha ha

[Marc]

The reason the joint is scribed is because when fixing the second scribe piece it slides along the other rather than pulling away at 90 degrees as it is fixed tightly to the wall.

Mm not sure what you mean with that snippet of literature, but I can see some advantages of doing it the way you do, and also disadvantages.

Australia is not the navel of the world, and things are done differently in different places. That does not make it wrong, just different.

The purpose of a BB like this should be to exchange experiences not to impose our own opinion. To scribe a complicated profile would take you or anyone else much longer than the additional care needed to make a miter joint.

That does not make your method wrong of course, since I know well that that is the way most people do it. I only said what is wrong with 45º, not you should all do 45º or otherwise you are all wrong.

As for your various assumptions and suggestions, they can only provide from
The author of this post is a rude idiot who should never be believed or taken seriously. so how can I be offended by such display?

The idea that things can only be done the way one thinks and that the rest of the world is wrong, is a very small view.

Fortunately there are others on this board who are more generous and humble in expressing their opinions, and are always eager to suggest and forward appropriate ideas without succumbing to such wild rants.

[craigb]

Oh I don't know. Personally, I'm quite fond of Doorstop's wild rants. :)

[ndru]

I'm with the "desert head" on this one.

In a 19th Century cottage we previously owned I installed some skirting board in two rooms. Needless to say, the walls were NOT square or plumb and undulated so much they made me sea sick just looking at them.

Being one of my very first DIY jobshttp://www.my-smileys.de/ashamed.gif, I thought I could mitre the inside corner the same way I mitred the outside corner. After cutting the mitre I found it a real struggle to get the two ends to join cleanly, and when I did it pushed other corner or length joins out. I thought the problem lay in adjusting the mitres - DUH!!!

After hours of colourful language at the mitre boxhttp://www.my-smileys.de/agr.gif, and one wasted length of board, I consulted the neighbour's son (a trim fitting apprentice) who said "scribe and butt joint". He showed me how and it isn't too tricky if you have a decent coping saw.

You may spend more time on cutting a clean scribe than cutting a mitre, but you only need to scribe one end and it fits together much easier and quicker.

[Marc]

It is with narrow-souled people as with narrow- necked bottles: the less they have in them, the more noise they make in pouring it out.
Alexander Pope

PS

As for the "second language" mention in your feeble attempt to belittle me, let me clarify that it is in fact my fourth language out of five.
Not all is what it looks like, and remember that moderation is a virtue only in those who are thought to have an alternative.

[DaveInOz]

Marc

Take the advice, but not the bait.
Spit the hook out before it does any damage.
;)

[Gumby]

Sheesh ! This place has been a revelation since I found it a couple of months ago but this thread is more like an after school newsgroup.
Let's get back to the spirit of it please. I can go elsewhere to read abusive (albeit tongue - in - cheek) posts.
Doorstop especially, please take note.

[Shane Watson]

Gumby,

nothings gunna change mate just cause your here now. you can take the posts any way you want but don't threaten to leave just cause you don't like the humor. Infact theres no need to threaten at all, your the master of your own web browser, if it dosn't point here then so be it.
The admin, moderators and myself keep a very close (although usually un-noticably) eye on ALL posts.

;)

[DarrylF]

Personally I'd rather be here, with it's humour, debates and personality than on most of the humourless, bland & painfully politically correct places that seem to abound.

[Zed]

I dont know if im qualified to comment as i'm "just a lowly renovator". But I was shown how to mitre an internal corner by an old carpenter and its easy to do as any other task . Lets face it chippies are not brain surgeons nor are they in most cases the most highly educated - thus anything they are taught has to be easy and repeatable :-) even then LOTS of them need to be educated on the easiest of tasks even after the are qualified eg: returning phone calls, turning up on time, providing receipts, not nicking tools, bum crack ettiquite etc etc... the list goes on and on!!! :-)

Just because my house has been substantially renovated (in some places gutted and re-done) by myself doesnt make it less valuable Mr Doorstop.... I invite you to come and check it out - its on the market and let me tell you I will make SUBSTANTIAL profit - using my own labour and love - you're all welcome. If you want give me a private mail and I will provide attendance details.

By the way I learnt most of the renovating tricks from books and recently on this forum too... Can chippies read anything other than "Picture" magazine or in some cases (not all) plans ? :-)

As far as messing up the joints is concerned I have 3 words - "no more gaps"

I like the humor here too - if you dont like it : bugger off to a nail polishing/hair stylist forum! If you've been here for a while (I admit i'm newish) its easy to discover the agro and stirrer boys (eg Doorstop, Sir Stinkalot etc....) if you let them bait you you deserve it.

[Sir Stinkalot]

Whooo back cowboy ….. back up your horses ….. Stinky has already been tried for the above mentioned crimes (refer Easties attack (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4817) ) and has been found to be not guilty.

Once again my good name has been dragged through the mud and left in a stinky heap in the corner ….

I shall now leave some room for a heart felt apology …….
:mad:

[Zed]

Sir Stinkalot are you baiting me now ?????????

I like your polls - honest I do...

:)

[Daniel]

Just create a few mitre and scribe test pieces on varying angles, that should point you in the right direction.

I have all the good tools for mitre joints but scribing still gets my vote.



Daniel

[Sir Stinkalot]

Originally posted by Zed
Sir Stinkalot are you baiting me now ?????????

I like your polls - honest I do...

:)

Damn ..... as clear as cellophane. :D

[Marc]

Daniel, there are two issues here, one is the technical discussion, to miter or to scribe.
I suggested that to miter would be easier on complicated colonial profiles. Let me add that the skirting board I was talking about I installed and milled myself, and I used a 2 inch long bit for the top side and a second pass with a different router bit for the center, to match the rest of the 8"x3/4" 100 year old skirting in the rest of the house.
To scribe that profile would take a lot of time and achieve a poor result, ergo, miter is the choice, and any other professional's choice too, not only mine..

The second issue is one of common courtesy and education.
My rule of thumb is not to write what I wouldn't say to the person in his face. It is very simple really and I expect the same in return.
I am sure Mr Doorstop would not talk to me like he did in his posts if we met in person.

The alternative is to meet in the local pub and settle differences over a pint of beer. After the beer I am sure the difference will return to it's normal proportion and we can laugh about it.

Internet rage is no substitute for a good life.

[Sturdee]

Nice boat, and they said it could not be done.
Proof that the socalled "experts" don't always know everything.

Peter.

[Barry_White]

I found if all else fails there is No More Gaps.

Regards

[Markw]

To those of us who profess a love for "No More Gaps", this is a truely wonderful product for the hiding of our lack of carpentry prowess, but alass I have taken the leap to clear lacquered timbers for skirting, architrave and door frames and I have found nothing which will cure any mistakes.

The only advice I can give is measure, measure, think about it, measure again then cut.

In this war words on mitre or scribe, both are correct in each circumstance. The truly complex board could be mitred but expect to return to the saw and take less than mm cuts again and again. But to do so is to expect a small gap in the mitre. Any movement in the timber will crack or expand the joint. To scribe this joint will look less professional but it will allow any movement of the timber without cracking the joint.

In the end who is going to look at the skirting board joint anyway, and you will probably not even notice the joint as furntiure will likely sit in front.

[Sturdee]

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by doorstop .
I am biting my tongue!:rolleyes:
[QUOTE]

Ouch that hurts - Come on Stoppers - Let it come out.

[craigb]

Yeah. Please, no self censorship

[soundman]

Let me tell you I have seen a number of "professionaly built" houses with (nasty) mitred internal corners.

I have found its not amateur "V" professional that makes the difference.

Its can or can not give a S..T.

I think most on this board do give S...T.


Those who cant give a S..T wont make the smallest effort to do a better job for their own satisfaction or others.


Those who make the extra effort reap the rewards.

We should forgive doorstop he just cares too much.!!!!

[mayoh]

Well guys, seems like I started an interesting topic. I worked on the weekend trying the different ways suggested above. I must say in my particular case, colonial skirtings that I am staining (no more gaps won't fix the problem), I have found that scribing works best (not mitre joints). Actually I find the way big pete suggested at the start very easy with good results, except still working on trying to get a good 45deg for the first couple of mm. Cutting them out with a thin jigsaw blade and coping saw isn't too difficult.

As for the comments with regards to amateur home reno's, I must say I am a real amateur but enjoy doing it and learning the different tricks of the trade. When I compare it to the work of professional builders I get in (structural, short on time or bit scared to try it myself), I must say I add value to my house, not reduce it. Can't get a better finish when there is a bit of pride about your work.

Thanks again for all those who have provided their opinion and given me different ideas so that I can find what best suits my style.

Excellent website!!!

[Fat Pat]

No More Gaps.....tradesman in a tube!

ON the topic of filling in some mitred corners, i have the same dilema as above.... the problem was I needed a quick skirting job in one room, and I lost my coping saw. On a deadline, did the old mitre join thingo, but the walls let me down. Because I wasn't painting the skirting boards (varnish only), No More Gaps was no good to me, so I had to think a little ---- coloured caulking in the right colour. Bewwwwwdiful, just like Con the fruiterer

Super Tradesman in a tube!

[Fat Pat]

I like the humor here too - if you dont like it : bugger off to a nail polishing/hair stylist forum! If you've been here for a while (I admit i'm newish) its easy to discover the agro and stirrer boys (eg Doorstop, Sir Stinkalot etc....) if you let them bait you you deserve it.[/QUOTE]


Jeez, 553 posts is considered "Newish", what do ya call my 3 posts?

[echnidna]

"No More Gaps.....tradesman in a tube!"

Usually ordered over here as a "tube of no more tradesman"

[vsquizz]

"No More Gaps.....tradesman in a tube!"

Usually ordered over here as a "tube of no more tradesman"
LMAO, Cheers Bob

Anyway, place I'm reno-ing at the moment has double brick, render and plaster with 4" bull nose skirting boards. So, should I; a) start a poll and find out what type of internal joint method to use, b) just say bugger it and drag the saw down to the job and mitre the joints c) have a coldie and contemplate Belly Button Lint??

Cheers

[echnidna]

Squizzy,
Belly button lint seems like the most fun but it don't get the job done.

A scribed joint cut out with a coping saw is so much easier to do than a mitre joint even using a SCM as virtually every corner will be very slighly out of square. With a mitre joint a slight gap is more noticable as the line of sight from the centre of the room is straight through the mitre. A coped joint could be very rough but not noticable unless you sight along the wall into the join.

If you use a poll to guage opinion try and listen to the builders and chippies on the forum as they have years of expertise.

[vsquizz]

Bob, It seems Dr Karl has done the Belly Button Lint thing. I noticed that on the skirting board I'm pulling out now the internals are scribed and the externals are mitred :cool: . Could be the option to preserve the sanctity of mankind. I have always done mitres but in the land of sand one of the things thats a relative cert is the walls are generally pretty true. This is (generally) because they're made by brickies not chippies:D , well on anything with some age anyway (Hey Al wheres me payment). And before the riot breaks out thats all a cause bricks tend to move a little less than timber:p

BTW Whats a "coping saw", do Makita make one?? or dare'st I say it GMC??

Cheers

[echnidna]

Its not so much the chippies responsible for out of square corners.
You put up a frame with perfect square corners then the plasterers hang their sheets.
Then they tape up the corners and plaster over them a mm or so.
VOILA - no more straight wall or square corners!!.

Coping saw is a handheld saw that takes a little blade, similar to a fretsaw but a little more robust. Maybe they have a different name over there.

[vsquizz]

Coping saw is a handheld saw that takes a little blade, similar to a fretsaw but a little more robust. Maybe they have a different name over there.
Bob, was TIC comment (a chippy says Doh whats a coping saw??) get it:D . Its also a reflection of the extremely high quality and vast selection of saws you'll find in my Stanley Mobile Tool Chest:rolleyes: (not)

Cheers

[journeyman Mick]

Squizzy,
mitred externals and coped internals is how it's generally done, accepted industry norm. Having said that I used to fit panelling and mouldings to all the boats made by one particular company and we (compound) mitred everything. Most joints were at anything other than 90 or 45. The bloke I got the work through and worked with for the first few years was a pattern maker by trade. He used to eyeball the joint, ocasionally drawing the positions of the mouldings on the panelling for the tricky bits, sometimes three dissimilar mouldings meeting, sometimes a curved moulding marrying into a straight one, etc. After eyeballing it he would cut it with a jigsaw and then clean it up with a (razor sharp) low angle block plane and sometimes pare it here and there with a chisel. We used to lacquer all the moulding before fitting them and you couldn't fault the joints, you'd be flat out slipping a bit of cigarette paper in. But even the simpler joints would take about half an hour each as opposed to about five minutes for a coped joint (ten minutes for colonial type mouldings).

Mick