my first project, need help please

[sierra1boy]

hello all,
This is my first project and I think I'm in a little over my head. I bought an antique desk that i was going to restore. Its a solid wood desk and is finished in what looks like a walnut varnish or stain. I started by stripping it down with chemicals. My plan was to change colors to more of a red mohagany or port wine time color. I chose a "red mohagony" danish oil and have been using it for the last week. So far, I have three coats on it and its looks more like a strawberry cool. I think i'm having problem with penetration but I really dont' know...I'm now questioning my stripping and whether I did a good enough job with it. Can someone help me with some knowledge? what can I do guys, please help

[astrid]

you picked a biggi for a first project but dont panic
firstly colourd danish oil to my knowedge is only to enhance a colour that is already there.
second be patient
do you know what the original timber is?
do you want to strip and start again?
how long ago did you put the DO on.
If its still uncured you can take it off easily with stripper and steel wool.
give us some more detail re what you did how old the piece is and what kind of finish you want.
there are a few tricks you can try if we know what youve done already.
some pics would be good

cheers,
astrid

[manoftalent]

yeah I agree with astrid ......I am thinking maybe there is a sealer under it also ....preventing the danish oil getting in .....at the worst you may have to sand back to original timber .....apply a stain of choice, and then danish oil it ..to get the colour you want ....pls try and post some close up pics of it .....to get a better idea ......

[MacS]

Lesson # 1 in finishing is to "make up a start to finish sample"

There is most likely very little color in that varnish, this is done so that the coatings will not streak or blotch, some companies have to much color, and their coating needs to be reduced in half.

In my opinion varnishes with color added, work best when they are sprayed, we call them "shading stains," they are used to add color and coating in each application with transparency, and they do not block out the wood.

You would be better off stripping it again, and deciding if you want to use a dye or a pigmented stain for your color.

Whichever, stain you decide to use, be sure you make up a complete sample.

Good Luck

[sierra1boy]

Thank you guys for all the information. Very helpfull. I've attached some pictures so you guys can see what i'm faced with. The desk is about 30 years old but i'm not sure what type of wood it is. I guess at this point I just need to see if there's anything I can put over the danish oil that will make it a darker: red mohagany/port wine color. I'm a little reluctant to strip it back down as we're heading into winter and I've already put a ton of time into it. What do you guys think?

[SJD]

Hi,

This might sound quite obvious - but does the stain/oil LOOK dark (in the can)?

Have you tested it on other woods (try and find something fresh and porous perhaps)
?

IF it looks like a light colour in the can AND it looks the same on other woods THEN your stain is too light.

You can add black / dark brown pigment to suit.

You shouldn't have to strip - just add pigment to your exsisting can and reapply

The colour in place will affect the final output though - but that should be ok.

Sorry I can't help you with brands as you're in nevada - im sure someone else can chip in here

hope this helps

[astrid]

another old trick is to let some of your DO start to jell dont let it get rubbery
then mix it with a dark bees wax furniture polish 50/50 and apply it to your sealed timber the same way you would if you were applying wax polish.
this gives a old waxed appearence to your piece and you buff it up with soft cloth.test this technique first on a piece of danish oiled scrap.
dont forget to treat your drawers and the rest of the desk as you have already done or they wont match.
this finish is tougher than just wax but not as tough as DO.
wont take a hot coffee cup but you shouldnt put hot cups on furniture anyway should you:roll:

astrid

[sierra1boy]

The color in the can looks very dark, almost a port wine color, the product is called Walco Mahogany Red Danish Oil. I'm almost positive its a penetration issue because I tested it on untreated wood and it came out much darker. As you can see the drawers look closer to the original color and that was even after 3 treatments (30min, 60min, 60min). I didn't sand it after I stripped it chemically, maybe thats the problem?? As for the bee wax technique, its sound pretty complex I'm almost positive I'd screw that up, as i'm a newbee. What else can I do guys? any thoughts?

thank you

p.s. anyone have an idea of what kind of would that is?

[MacS]

If you checked the DO in the can to see if the color is darker after it was mixed up, this might work for you, if the color is not darker, then do they sell a darker color DO?

I don't think you would be familar with a finishing technique known as color "glazing," its a technique that is used to add or change the color of the finish, it also enhances and enriches the finish.

You could use the DO as the glaze. YOU MUST FIRST DO A SAMPLE.

Instead of wiping on the DO, and then wiping it off, you will wipe it on and then "brush out the DO with the grains of the wood" it will take some practicing to make sure that you are "brushing out" the DO almost dry. You will need a few 3" flat brushes, you have to keep the brushes clean, use white spirits

You then must allow it to throughly dry, you can repete this technique until you get the color you want.

Remember, you will need to practice this technique, before you do it on your work.

Photo to follow.

Good Luck

MacS

[MacS]

Here, are the steps to glazing, you could practice this with your DO to see if it works and that it adds and changes the color.

You can omit the seal coats, because the DO seals its self.

Good Luck,

MacS

[sierra1boy]

You guys are great, I think i will try this. Thank you so much for the advice, this site is wonderful!

[sierra1boy]

So with the glazing techinque I'm basically applying a thin layer of DO and letting it dry complete and not wiping it off right? Is it okay for me to use a brush to put it on, and then use the same brush to brush it with the gran or do i have to use a rag/sponge initially?

[MacS]

You can use a rag or a brush to apply the DO, you can even use a rag to wipe some off, but you must use a brush to work the glaze back and forth with the grain of the wood.

My reason for mentioning about extra flat brushes, is because the brush will load up with the DO and not work right. It is best when that happens, is to use a clean dry brush.

Take the used brush, and clean it in the white spirits, and dry it off. The more brushes, the less stopping for a clean brush.es....s

I hope this helps you.

Mac S

[sierra1boy]

Sure does, thank you. One more question, am I only using the white spirits to clean the brushes or will I be using that to reduce or add to the DO? Also, is mineral spirits the same thing as white spirits?

[MacS]

Sure does, thank you. One more question, am I only using the white spirits to clean the brushes or will I be using that to reduce or add to the DO? Also, is mineral spirits the same thing as white spirits?

Yes, you will be able to use the "white spirits" with the DO, all DO's are not the same, if the DO is too difficult to "brush out" add a little solvent, it should make it easier to brush out.

Yes, they are the exact same solvent, also, Paint Thinner is the same solvent. Over here in the USA, we do not use the name White Spirits, they also use that name in the UK.

Think Twice, Finish Once...

MacS

[astrid]

The trouble with colouring your oil is that if you scratch it you will instantly expose the original timber
I know its a bugger after all your work, but if you want a finish that looks good in 15 years, do it proberly and strip off what you've done ,stain the raw timber and use a clear oil as a finish.
if on the other hand this is a piece you dont want to keep long time?

astrid

[MacS]

Astrid,

That is true about toners, stains, glazes, and shading stains, all of this coloring mediums if they get scratched they will show the raw wood.

But then again, if you scratched any clear coating it also will show up in the raw woods, it would be more obvious depending on the color of the wood and the color of the medium that was used.

SB, was looking for help to darken the color, I gave him an option, if it don't work then he will have to strip it any way, if it does work, then he will be a happy camper that he save his own piece.

Naturally, its always better to strip in down and do it over, in other cases it may not pay to do it.

I wish SB good luck for trying, and hope that he succedes.

[astrid]

No critisism to you macS
but from the pics the original timber seems very light,
this is going to be a problen re small scratchesand if there are kids around this will happen fast.
at least if the base is stained then any marks wont be quite as glareing
PS the grain in your pic looks really nice
use a spirit base stain an oil base will cover this natural feature upand look muddy.
it realy shouldnt take more than 2-3 hours to strip and neutrarise what you've done. I know that the first strip probably took a lot longer but if the desk is only 30 YO you were dealing with a synthetic. you are now only dealing with DO and its easy to strip. The results will be worth it.
PS i have to warn you that I am a traditionalist.:U

astrid

[MacS]

Astrid,

I don't know how much you know or how much glazing and color washes you have done.

But, if you know about "brushing out" you would know that you do not see any brush marks at the end of the brushing out, what you see is a wash of very little color, SB said, the color in the can was darker, if he "brushes out" the color SB will still will be able to see the natural wood and a change in the finishes color, this is not a "paint job," its another way of adding color with transparency by continuing to brush out the color of a glaze, in this case a DO, which in some cases uses just about the same ingredience as a true glaze, it contains a drying oil, solvent, and a colorant.

If your a traditional restorer, you may not be using glazing and washes in your work, as it is not traditional with most conservators.

I am not in any class, I will use any material that will make the repair work, regardless of what is acceptable to conservators or not.

Glazing, happens to be my favorite finishing technique, it is the only finishing technique that can be use as a "stain, toner, and shading stain," which basically is what he will be doing with the DO, he, will be adding more color at the end of the finishing process, which is exactly what a shading stain is used to do.

I am becoming a little more familar with Austraiian finishing, I am sure many of you will not agree with my solutions, that is because they are not commonly used here. I am sure there are many shops here that are familar with every one of the finishing techniques that I know, and can do every one of them. It seems that these kinds of shops are far and in between in Assieland.

I think that most of those that come here to post, think in the traditional way. So, if I sound off beat to you its only because I am trying to help in my ways.

MacS

[astrid]

Far from it macS,
there are unfortunatly too many work shops that "Know it all"
whether they use there knowledge well is another issue.

often they will use the cheapest and fastest option to do an acceptable job
this has its place with most reproduction furniture

but when i see this being used on well crafted timber I want to scream.
I relise that the piece being discussed is a repro but if SB wants to lift it from the ordinary then a tradinional finish may be best.
its also easier to achieve for a beginer.

pardon my annoyance, but one of the sprayshop boys stole 3000 worth of work off me last week by fooling my client that he could do the same job cheaper.
I was half way through the job:~
astrid

[sierra1boy]

After read all the posts I'm going to try the glaze technique and see if that will work out okay. Worse case scenrio is that I screw it up and then just strip it back down again and star over, so i feel pretty good about it. I am amazed at how much goes into these projects and will definetly conintue after this one. I've very excited to learn some of the other techiques mentioned, in the future. I'll post some pic's when its done, wish me luck:)

So, could any of you tell what kind of wood I'm working on? Also, what does it mean when someone said it was a repo?

[sierra1boy]

Oh and one more question: how do i strip DO if i end up having to do that in the long run?

[astrid]

I think you said the desk was about 30 yo.
a reproduction means a piece made in the style of an older model.
this is no an insult it just means that its not a 200 yo desk.
there are loads of repro made of lovly timber and well made yours looks like one of them.
a pedestal desk of age would cost a lot:U
astrid

[Scally]

Hi SB.
Hopefully one of your countrymen can help with the timber. Is it heavy, hard?
Can you describe the natural colour.
A bit more information might help someone pick the type of timber.

I use DO for most finishing.
Sometimes I add a stain or Black Japan to even out colour differences between boards. It can be difficult to build up colour. Wiping off the excess oil tends to remove most of the colour.

I will be interested to see how you go with the Glazing technique.

[MacS]

Scally,

SB will not be wiping off the glaze (DO) He will be "brushing out," there is a big diifference, by brushing the glaze you can control the amount of color you want to leave on, you can use the brush to leave streak marks in the finish, if you continue brushing out the glaze you will not see any brush marks whats so ever in the finish, when the DO dries it should be shiny with the color showing in the finish. If after the DO dries and there is no shine, then apply just the DO alone without the color, this will "pop" the brushed out color in the finish.

To make this a little more interesting, I attached a photo of 6 brushing techniques that are done with a colored glaze and a flat brush.

Mac S

[sierra1boy]

Glazing did the trick! For my first project I feel pretty good how it turned out.

[MacS]

Seirra 1 Boy,

I can see why your feeling pretty good.

Kudos for a job well done. It looks terrific, i'm real proud of you, congratulatios

I hope that you, and others can see why I said, "pigmented mediums do not paint the wood, it is the finishers that paint the wood.

Great translucentcy from "brushing out the glaze.".

That is no paint job.

MacS

[astrid]

congratulations,
you reaaly have made a great job out of it.
be proud of your work.
so whats next???:U
astrid

[MacS]

I would say, "Its as good as it gets" and for his first try. I bet a lot of woodworkers here may have learned a lesson or two on what can be done with pigmented glazes, and why they are used.

S 1 B, did it right the first time, I bet there are a few restorers looking twice on this finished desk. as I just said, "It's as good as it gets."

[sierra1boy]

Yes, I'm very happy with how it came out, I've even had a few friends over and make comments. Special thanks to MacS & astrid for your support along the way, great advice on the glazing technique. I really didn't thing I would be able to finish this project, as I'm more of a car hobbiest, but really enjoyed working with wood. I'm already seeking out my next project.:wink: All together very worth while, I only spent $60 on the desk and then another $25 in materials.