The great cellar smell mystery

[spartan]

Hi all,

I think I may have posted about this problem a couple of years ago - but had no success in getting a response.

Since then I tired a few things and have in particular got my hands on a digital camera so I could take some photos of the cellar.

The first couple of photos are of the outside of the cellar, the door the that opens beneath the bar and head down a flight of wooden steps.

The next set of photos are of the inside of the cellar.

The problem

The cellar has a musky dank smell. Other than leaving the door open there is no way of getting any form of ventilation into the cellar.

The house construction is slab on ground. The cellar was put in when the house was built some 20 years ago....According to the neighbour the outside of the cellar was 'tanked' properly.

The room is about 3mx3mx2m.

We have tried all sorts of tricks - like toilet block lollies - buckets of cotton wool, lime, bicarb soda, moistore absorbers etc....with no luck....

The smell persists...there is no visible sign of moisture or mold in the cellar.....

The smell also seems to get into the bottles that are sealed with corks including beer bottles....

So is there anyone out there who may have some advice to offer?

[wheelinround]

Hi all,

I think I may have posted about this problem a couple of years ago - but had no success in getting a response.

Since then I tired a few things and have in particular got my hands on a digital camera so I could take some photos of the cellar.

The first couple of photos are of the outside of the cellar, the door the that opens beneath the bar and head down a flight of wooden steps.

The next set of photos are of the inside of the cellar.

The problem

The cellar has a musky dank smell. Other than leaving the door open there is no way of getting any form of ventilation into the cellar.

The house construction is slab on ground. The cellar was put in when the house was built some 20 years ago....According to the neighbour the outside of the cellar was 'tanked' properly.

The room is about 3mx3mx2m.

We have tried all sorts of tricks - like toilet block lollies - buckets of cotton wool, lime, bicarb soda, moistore absorbers etc....with no luck....

The smell persists...there is no visible sign of moisture or mold in the cellar.....

The smell also seems to get into the bottles that are sealed with corks including beer bottles....

So is there anyone out there who may have some advice to offer?

This I think you'll find is Rising Damp coming up through the floor and the walls. Bet you have gardens all around the house with watering system EH:doh:

[spartan]

No gardens anywhere near the cellar...

Immediately outside the wall - to the left of the first picture is a breezway - 100mm of concrete about 2 metres wide and then a double look up garage....

What's a watering system.???

[wheelinround]

No gardens anywhere near the cellar...

Immediately outside the wall - to the left of the first picture is a breezway - 100mm of concrete about 2 metres wide and then a double look up garage....

What's a watering system.???

how do you water plants wash your car have you a pool, possible shower floor seapage bath, leaks or broken pipe drain pipes with small peristant leak down pipes where do they flow

where are you located down low in the area or up high could even be a neighbour who has the leak

[Cliff Rogers]

Could be mould....

Get rid of anything that will grow mould, the posters, plaques, corks etc.

Treat/spray the ceiling, walls & floor with a diluted mixture of clove oil.
Clove oil is not easy to find in Oz, try Asia supply shops, it is easy to buy in Malaysia.

Clove Oil is a natural mould inhibitor, worth a try.

[Capt. Zero]

Something that may mask the smell is a product we use in hospitals. Goes by a number of names, 'Orange 3' I think is one. Talk to your local hospital. If you can get some it will cover almost any strong odor. Later this eve. when the auto is back I've got a bottle there and I can get the name and maker for you.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

First thing I'd look at is ventilation. Any ventilation is better than none... nasty things breed in "dead" air. [shudder]

OK, so you can't vent through the walls or the floor slab... but where do the stairs go? Inside the house or out?

If outside, can you fit a whirly-bird to the trapdoor? If inside, is there any way you can fit a ducted fan?

[johnc]

Like Skew I would think you have a ventilation problem possibly made worse by hummidity from air cooling near the walls. Ideally you would have a small vent at the top of the wall but the slab rules that out unless you can run a long length of PVC to the outside wall of the house which is probably near impossible. Otherwise see if you can vent the room to the outside wall with a blower or fan, cool air settles so any venting will not be easy. At the very least put a vent in the trap door, it may help a little.

[spartan]

Guys, thanks for the comments thus far....Some things to try for sure...

To answer the question posed....

We are on 6000 sqm, the house is pretty much on top of a hill, the soil is largely shale.

The cellar is underground, so there is no opportunity for venting through any of the walls as there is solid earth and concrete for about 10 metres in every direction.

Closest tap would be ten metres away.

We don't water the garden as we are on level 6 water restrictions - no outside use of water. - Car wash not likely.....

Leeking taps - or pipes not according to the water audit people who have been doing the rounds.

The stairs shown lead directly up to the bar which is inside the house......



Other things I have been thinking about....



Coat the walls with some kind of mebrane/render/paint/pitch type product.
Attach 70x30 TP studs to the walls.
Attach Fibre Cement to the studs.
Paint the Fibre cemet.
apply coating to floor and ceiling.
Line celing with Fibre cement...
Line the floor with some cheap and nasty timber floorboards.
perhaps install a very small low wattage fan on a timber to circulate the air within the cellar.....

[Cliff Rogers]

I don't think the painting will fix it for ever....
There is a brick building in Malanda that has a 'bomb shelter' type of strong room that we have been offered to use as storage for some sound gear that will cost our club a lot to insure.

The room is solid concrete with no ventilation at all.
It is painted, floors, walls & ceiling & it has that very strong musty smell.

[Dirty Doogie]

I agree that you need some form of positive ventilation down there. My first thought was to drill through the bottom of the bar cabinetry and the floor and install a small fan powered duct.

But another problem may the shale - it smells on its own - especially when damp. If it rains soon dig a bit of shale out from somewhere in the grounds and smell it - I bet it is the same smell. Some people can actually get vey sick from the gases that shale emits eg radon gas, methylformaldyhe etc. these gases pass through walls and concrete.

In any case I think ventilation is the way to getting rid of the smell initially.

[DJ’s Timber]

My Uncle has built a couple of underground cellars and the first one had that dank musky smell, so with the second one he allowed for ventilation and has had no smells at all in the second one. With that knowledge in hand he then put ventilation into the first one and that solved the problem.

IMHO the only way you'll fix the problem is to get fresh air into the cellar. Forget about painting or lining the walls, it won't do anything.

[prozac]

Edmonds make a low power consumption fan for just this sort of problem. Draws only 6.5Watts. They reckon about 6 bucks a year to run.

Ecofan Sub Floor Ventilation by Edmonds...http://www.edmonds.com.au/html/products/subfloor_ventilator_ecofan.htm

prozac

[munruben]

Had a house in Sydney where it had a new underground room added and the same thing, stank of earth and damp but eventually the smell went after about 2 or 3 years.
Is there no way you can install a ventilation pipe to take away the smell similar to the stink pipes used in toilets that have no natural ventilation. I would be trying to do something like that rather than mask the smell. Let us know if you find an idea to solve the problem.

[woodbe]

Hi.

Nice hole you've dug for yourself there! :)

Ok, I've had several houses that had cellars, but never built one from scratch. One thing that they have all had is ventilation. Not a lot, just enough so that the air changes. I agree with the other posters who suggest putting a vent up through the cupboard or trapdoor, and a small low power fan to circulate some air. If it's as sealed as it looks (what were they thinking?) you might need to put a vent through the ceiling at the other end of the cellar to allow flow through the room.

Not all cellars work properly. Ventilation is one thing, but what they also need is a low variation in temperature, and slow changes. You most likely have that judging by the description, but it would be worth putting a max/min thermometer down there and verifying things are up to scratch...

As for the cellar itself, nice space! If it were me, I'd render the walls and put some wine in there when the smell problems have been cleared up.

woodbe.

[RedRaven]

I agree with Doogie - as a geologist myself, I'm sure there will be some gases escaping the soil.

Shale often contains a fair amount of carbon - when this comes into contact with air, it oxidises and makes all sorts of stinky gases. And adding to that, many of said gases are heavier than air and will sit in the cellar rather than diffuse out.

I don't think there'll be any radon; that's usually a by product of the weathering of granite.

If there's no actual 'rising' damp in the walls etc, then some simple ventialtion will probably do the trick... works in the mines!

[Chris Parks]

I built a 2 storey structure, the garage being on top and the bottom being partially underground with a damp problem despite major work being done to prevent it at the building stage. It suffered from damp and odours and as soon as I ventilated it through the garage floor the smells disappeared within days. All I did was got some plastic drain grids that go into 90mm storm water pipe and fitted them flush to the floor of the garage. The air flow depends on which way the wind blows but it works and was simple with no need for fans.