caning

[astrid]

this is an ethical issue rather that OHS but does anyone know where I can source cane for rattan from somewhere that dosnt use bonded child labour.
I dont want to get into a general stouch here, I know that harvesting shellac is a shi- occupation but at least children are not allowed to work in this industry in india.
but one must draw the line somwhere and i have been told that rattan is harvested using child slave labour i(e their parents have bonded them to pay debt) in the philipines.
I have discussed this with any clients who want me to re cane thier chairs and they are as offput as i am.

astrid

[BobL]

Sorry I can't help . . . . . . personally I dislike rattan and you have just given me another reason to dislike it even more.

[Honorary Bloke]

but one must draw the line somwhere and i have been told that rattan is harvested using child slave labour i(e their parents have bonded them to pay debt) in the philipines.
I have discussed this with any clients who want me to re cane thier chairs and they are as offput as i am.

astrid

Who told you this? :? I don't think it is common because children would not have the skill to harvest it (though perhaps in the cleaning and drying process). Current research I've read makes no mention of this socio-economic phenomenon and I cannot believe the academic community would let it pass unmentioned. The real challenge seems to be rattan sustainability and management.

Please cite your sources.

[Frank&Earnest]

So much for your academic community. Just google Philippines child labour rattan and find all about it. Even your Department of Labour knows about it. It is a sad day when buraucracy knows more than academy.

[BobL]

. . . . .
Current research I've read . . .

Please cite your sources.

Someone could well ask the same question of yourself :)

[Phil Spencer]

this is an ethical issue rather that OHS but does anyone know where I can source cane for rattan from somewhere that dosnt use bonded child labour.
I dont want to get into a general stouch here, I know that harvesting shellac is a shi- occupation but at least children are not allowed to work in this industry in india.
but one must draw the line somwhere and i have been told that rattan is harvested using child slave labour i(e their parents have bonded them to pay debt) in the philipines.
I have discussed this with any clients who want me to re cane thier chairs and they are as offput as i am.

astrid

Only place that I know of is AV Leggo in Bayswater. Don't know about the child labour though I suppose you couldask them but if they tell the truth well....

Phil

[AlexS]

I don't know the source of real rattan, but there is plastic stuff around, I believe. Not sure where to get it from though.

[echnidna]

So much for your academic community. Just google Philippines child labour rattan and find all about it. Even your Department of Labour knows about it. It is a sad day when buraucracy knows more than academy.

Google didn't even come up with one result for
"Philippines child labour rattan"

and no result for "child labour rattan" either.

[Jedo_03]

and there ARE hits for "child labour rattan"...
Here's the first five...
Jedo
ILAB - Indonesia (http://www.dol.gov/ilab/media/reports/iclp/sweat/indonesia.htm)

There is little hard data on the extent of child labor in export industries. Child labor is found in the garment and the wood and rattan furniture ...
www.dol.gov/ilab/media/reports/iclp/sweat/indonesia.htm - 50k - Cached (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:ibp2-6Ibe8YJ:www.dol.gov/ilab/media/reports/iclp/sweat/indonesia.htm+child+labour+rattan&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au) - Similar pages (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=related:www.dol.gov/ilab/media/reports/iclp/sweat/indonesia.htm)
ILAB - The Philippines (http://www.dol.gov/ilab/media/reports/iclp/sweat/philippines.htm)

Child labor is recognized as a serious problem in the Philippines. ... to the United States.4 Child labor is allegedly found in wood and rattan furniture ...
www.dol.gov/ilab/media/reports/iclp/sweat/philippines.htm - 46k - Cached (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:rWqdbSIibEYJ:www.dol.gov/ilab/media/reports/iclp/sweat/philippines.htm+child+labour+rattan&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=au) - Similar pages (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=related:www.dol.gov/ilab/media/reports/iclp/sweat/philippines.htm)
[ More results from www.dol.gov (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=+site:www.dol.gov+child+labour+rattan) ]
ILO ACTRAV - Child Labour - Trade Union and Child Labour ... (http://www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/actrav/genact/child/part2_a/agric.htm)

International Programme on the Elimination of Child Labour (IPEC) .... agriculture may also be found in the harvesting of rattan in the Philippines, ...
www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/actrav/genact/child/part2_a/agric.htm - 54k - Cached (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:E9yqecTXipEJ:www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/actrav/genact/child/part2_a/agric.htm+child+labour+rattan&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=au) - Similar pages (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=related:www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/actrav/genact/child/part2_a/agric.htm)
Bitter Harvest Child Labour in Agriculture - Activités pour les ... (http://www.ilo.org/public/french/dialogue/actrav/genact/child/publ/aglabour.htm)

... may also be found in the harvesting of rattan in the Philippines, ... Most child labour in Brazil is found in agriculture where trade unions have also ...
www.ilo.org/public/french/dialogue/actrav/genact/child/publ/aglabour.htm - 44k - Cached (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:lEi1NhcEov8J:www.ilo.org/public/french/dialogue/actrav/genact/child/publ/aglabour.htm+child+labour+rattan&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=au) - Similar pages (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=related:www.ilo.org/public/french/dialogue/actrav/genact/child/publ/aglabour.htm)
Rattan Furniture, Wicker Furniture and Bamboo Furniture ... (http://www.sunvalleyrattan.com/)

This year, we have been awarded the International Award as the "Most Outstading Rattan Furniture Exporter" of 2007. We do not use any child labour in any of ...
www.sunvalleyrattan.com/ - 43k - Cached (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:DBxLn2ud7cIJ:www.sunvalleyrattan.com/+child+labour+rattan&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=au) - Similar pages (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=related:www.sunvalleyrattan.com/)

[joe greiner]

Google didn't even come up with one result for
"Philippines child labour rattan"

and no result for "child labour rattan" either.

Omit the quotes. Frank's (I think) came up as the first hit.

For round plastic substitute, I suppose you could use string trimmer ("whipper snipper" as some say) material.

Joe

[Honorary Bloke]

A few for perusal. The ones listed by Jedo03 are ILO-centric, which I do not consider to be totally unbiased either. The DOL one (IIRC) says "alleged" and points out that the children are working in the manufacture of rattan furniture, not the harvesting of cane. Sun Valley Rattan says they do not use child labour in their factories and makes no mention of harvesting.

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=117737

http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/X9923E/x9923e13.htm

http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/Y2783E/y2783e24.htm

http://www.itto.or.jp/live/Live_Server/886/tfu.2004.04(12-13).e.pdf

http://www.dost.gov.ph/index2.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=64&pop=1&page=0&Itemid=76


My point is not that it may be happening, nor am I claiming it does not. But I believe we can get hung up on one-sided viewpoints. Best I can tell, these children, if in fact they are utlised in cane harvesting, are products of debt-indenture type arrangements. Perhaps it is the underlying economic system that needs correcting, a symptom of which may be child labour.

How you will be able to tell the conditions under which any particular pallet-load of rattan cane was harvested may be impossible.

[astrid]

I rang avlo
girl said it came from hong kong!!!
astrid