hiding whiting or getting it out

[astrid]

is there an easier way of getting whiting out of old ceder other than sanding?
I'm doing 2 old chairs and the old filler is a real problem.
I dont want to stain it out as there are 4 other chairs to match them to.
I've tried brushing with an old toothbrush and meths and sanding with 360 grit and meths with some [50 %} success but the rest is really stubborn.

astrid

[MacS]

Try, using a "metal brush" for scrubbing whiting/gesso, and use 50% Acetone and 50% Alcohol.

Try using the metal brush and a stripper.

You may need to use a " tinting toner" to hide the color.

MacS

[astrid]

thanks for reply,
by metal brush do you mean a wire brush?
thanks
astrid

[MacS]

Yes,

Try, using the brass brush first, as the steel brush is much harder, and may scratch up the wood.

[astrid]

thanks , but the cedar is pretty soft and the chairs are quite ornate.
wont the brass brush cause scraching that will have to be heavy sanded?
astrid

[MacS]

That would depend on the amount of pressure you applied.

You need to use the solvents with the brush, the solvent are needed to soften, the brush to remove.

MacS

[rsser]

Astrid, I've restored a couple of Red Cedar chests and had to sand below the filler. With lots of mouldings as in your case that would be a real PITA.

I did get a tip (not tried yet) from a guy who'd done a French Polishing course: once sanded, wipe over with Baby Oil then apply French polish. (Presumably the oil starts the darkening process and allows better penetration of the polish.) May be worth a try on a spot that doesn't show.

[Added, you're right; our Cedar is so soft a brass brush will ruin the surface. And I'm not sure that anything other than soaking in water would soften whiting. Paint stripper doesn't touch it.]

[MacS]

Baby oil has no color, so how would it help color the filler?

In fact, wiping baby oil on the piece probably would also cause a big problem to the french polishing.

Using a brass brush and solvent, is better then power sanding off all that wood, even if the brush did leave some scratches.

When finishers cannot get the filler out, they use a tinting toner, then they either stain or glaze it.

[rsser]

So what MacS would you say is the binding agent for whiting that acetone and meths (denatured alcohol) would dissolve?

Why do you think that a brass brush would not damage Toona Australis to the extent that major resanding would be required?

In what way would Baby Oil make problems for a mix of meths and shellac flakes?

Why should a tinting toner have a given effect on whiting and proportionately less effect on the Toona Australis whose pores it's filling?

[MacS]

So what MacS would you say is the binding agent for whiting that acetone and meths (denatured alcohol) would dissolve?

MacS says, most likely is Gesso & Glue.

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Why do you think that a brass brush would not damage Toona Australis to the extent that major resanding would be required?

MacS says, I did not say it would not scratch the wood, I said, it would be better then "power sanding" it!
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In what way would Baby Oil make problems for a mix of meths and shellac flakes?

MacS says, a dab of oil is OK on the pad, but wiping it all over, would not be a wise thing to do.
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Why should a tinting toner have a given effect on whiting and proportionately less effect on the Toona Australis whose pores it's filling?

MacS says, its very difficult removing all the white filler in the open grains, it is not only difficult, its very time consuming.
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A tinting toner is a thinned out colored coating that is translucent, it will hide the white without painting out the woods color, if it is done right, in this case the tinting toner would match to the same color as the wood.

If the wood was "paste wood filled" with color, there would be no need to remove the filler, so you are asking a question that doe's not pertain to this problem of either removing, or coloring the wood.

[astrid]

thanks rsser
i was worried that an oil would affect the timber around the whiting and stop the polish sticking but i asked a friend who is a pro and he said when he did his apprentiship with a renouned australian restorer they used linseed and 0000 steelwool so i will try this on an old toonis chair leg ive got hanging around.
dont want to practice on clients furniture.

the chairs ive got i ended up polishing over the whiting then working in dark wax into the opened grain, this covered 90%.
as the chairs were early 19C and nicely dinged they look pretty good.
used a copic touch out pen on the few larger pits.
these come in such huge range of colour that the match is perfect.

thanks,
I will do my experiments today and let you know how i go
astrid

[MacS]

Now, that you waxed it and filled in the grains, how will you finish it with a protective coating?

[astrid]

"ended up polishing over the whiting then working in dark wax into the opened grain"

Macs,
The point of filling the grain with whiting or preferably shellac is too fillup the grain.
After some work with a soft toothbrush, meths and fine sandpaper the whiting (which by the way is often known as english whiting and gypsum based) is worn away to the point that although you can still see it, its top surface is below that of the timber and remains so after polishing so then one can cover it to a large extent with dark wax well rubbed into the grain but off the surface of your turned leg or back.

I was merely looking for a faster way to do this.


cheers
astrid

[MacS]

I know what it is, and I know how to do it.

What, I don't understand is why you refilled the grains with the wax, unless your going to end up with a wax finish?

I remember, the customer wanted a better coating, more protection on the piece, you do not have a plan to seal the wax in, and then coat over it, do you?

If you do, what is your plan !

[astrid]

MACs,
I think you are confusing the threads but any way...
I polished over the whiting means, I brushed over the whiting with shellac.
these lovely old chairs dont need a full french polish, so now they have what is known as a shellac and wax finish.
I do try not to overestore
too many people think restore means make it all shiny and new.
not me
astrid