Concrete for courtyard - what are my options?

[alpsy]

Hi guys,

First post and in need of advice.

We have a courtyard area (approx 6mt * 7mt) which use to have 600*600mm pavers. We have since installed a roller door for car access and removed all pavers and now deciding what to do with the surface.

The plan is do a concrete floor which will look super contemporary and withhold the weight of our cars and provide us the flexibility to entertain also. As this is a very open area and immediately observable from our entertaining area inside the house the look of this area is paramount.

What sort of surface should we look at? Considering polished though costly. Don’t like stencil but would consider helicopter finish concrete coloured or stained then sealed or epoxy. Can this be made to work?

I know the information I have provided is very limited but would really love some feedback.

Cheers,

B.

[Ashore]

At least 4" with reo
Stamped does in my exoeriance get slippery when wet
Why not stencil

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18837&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1139206633 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18837&d=1139206633) http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18835&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1139206525 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18835&d=1139206525)

I did :2tsup:

[Timmo]

how much does stencilled cost per m2?

[Ashore]

Have no idea , got ours done over 9 years ago
There are a lot of things to consider
The site how easy/hard to prepear and pour
The pattern colour
The size of the area normally the larger the cheeper per square
How much work is going on in the area do they need work or not
Thickness / amount of concrete needed
Best bet get a local Quote :wink:

[Planned LScape]

Been a while since I have got a price on pattern concrete but I think it's around $100/m, probably more now. Just ask around for a good concretor, they are hard to find these days.

Another cheaper option, which looks very contemporary, is to get it finished in a stipple finish, then get it saw cut at 600 x 600 or larger squares. Makes it look like large format pavers. You could get it done in charcoal colour so it looks better than the normal colour.

[Burnsy]

If you want contemporary I would steer clear of stenciling and go with exposed aggregate. Phone around and get some prices, over here you are looking for about $65 square metre as there is less work in finishing than stenciling if you go with the standard concrete. Expect to pay around $140 more per cubic metre more for coloured concrete or special stone colour requests such as black basalt. Seal it when it is done and it looks magic, you will not be sorry and will have a courtyard that your friends drool over. Remember to allow for runoff and make sure the levels are right.

[alpsy]

hi guys,

thanks for the feedback so far

i have attached a link of the area in question

took the photo from inside as this is the most important aspect of seeing the area to us.

although it is not clear from the image we have built a raised pond on right hand side of image (near door). also there are two step down once you open the doors.

please note that internal floors are polished black concrete and although they look very good, whatever colour we go with outside will need to be much lighter to give sense of space.

plan is to have a white pebble border around slab and to clad wooden slat walls with blueboard and render or do something else with slat wall.

please assist with ideas and recommend a good concretor if possible :)

cheers

[Burnsy]

With the courtyard being a major focus from inside as your photo shows you definitely want to do something special. Exposed gives you so many options and it does not have the "fake tacky feel" that I get when I look at stamped concrete, save that for median strips I say.

I did a quick search and here is a link to a mob in Sydney with some pictures for ideas http://www.decorpebble.com.au/elements/Gallery%20Job%201.htm Do some more searches you are bound to find alot more, it is very popular at the moment.

Most good concretors can do this, especially the old blokes as it was big in the 70's. It ain't rocket science so don't let anyone try and tell you it is. There are various ways of doing it, all start with pouring the concrete, standard concrete will do and still give you a good effect. You can order coloured concrete and if you want seed the concrete with coloured stone either when it is in the truck (painful and hard) or by evenly distributing the stone over the surface of the concrete as it is trowelled off. Many guys trowel off, roll the edges and that is it, they then leave it till it is dry enough to hit with a gerney which washes out the cement on the surface and exposes the stone. Some guys spray the surface with a sugar and water solution as this prevents the concrete from curing and allows more time before it has to be hit with the gerney. Leave it a few days to cure off (stay off it so you don't cause any stains by dirt and oil) then spray on a water based sealer with a everyday garden sprayer.

[Burnsy]

Here is another one looks great with the decking.
http://www.exposedconcrete.com.au/photos/driveway_037_lge.jpg

Depending on how much room you need each side for your car you could make some decking benches to sit on that would look real smick out there, they can be movable so you can move them around and you can make the top hinged as storage boxes. Also, as I said before allow for drainage, we did a job last summer in a similar colour and we used a large (600mm) plastic pot as forming and poured it so there were a couple of circlular garden beds in the concrete. Slope the concrete into the round garden beds (best have them down each side of the roller door away from your house) wack a couple of those yukkas you have there into the ground in each hole and then it's Jamie Durie eat your heart out:2tsup:

[Tubby2]

A brochure I found that had a lot of different examples that came be done with concrete
http://www.concretecoloursystems.com.au/downloads/domesticbrochure.pdf

Hope it helps

As said above I do like the exposed aggregate

[alpsy]

thanks for all the great feedback

please keep them coming

getting people to do this sort of stuff (exposed aggregate) in sydney is not as easy as i thought. they all say its dated and stencils are the way to go :)

i will not deterred

looking forward to showing you guys the final product

b

[Burnsy]

getting people to do this sort of stuff (exposed aggregate) in sydney is not as easy as i thought. they all say its dated and stencils are the way to go :)


I thought Sydney was leading in the new fashion stakes, in WA you get the reverse answer, "nah mate stencils are for the old folks homes, go exposed aggregate and polished concrete" either Sydney has already passed this stage and is into the next fashion cycle or we are in front for once:2tsup: or maybe it is just that the stone mined over there is really ugly and no-one wants to see it:rolleyes:

[Tubby2]

t..... they all say its dated and stencils are the way to go :)



Thats crap,
They obviously have no idea how to do it.

Stencil concrete, in my opionin, looks cheap and unattractive. There's a lot of exposed aggregate driveways being done close to my area in multi million dollar homes.
Drive down a couple of streets in a crappy suburb and most will be stencilled concrete. Have a look in an affluent suburb and you wont see many stencil driveways at all. They may not be exposed aggregate but they will definately not be stencilled.
Whats looking really good of late is black aggregate in a black oxide concrete with or without a paver/tiled border. It also looks great with a white aggregate and white oxide concrete.
The days of the orange/red pebblecrete are long gone.

[Burnsy]

Thats crap,
They obviously have no idea how to do it.

Stencil concrete, in my opionin, looks cheap and unattractive. There's a lot of exposed aggregate driveways being done close to my area in multi million dollar homes.
Drive down a couple of streets in a crappy suburb and most will be stencilled concrete. Have a look in an affluent suburb and you wont see many stencil driveways at all. They may not be exposed aggregate but they will definately not be stencilled.
Whats looking really good of late is black aggregate in a black oxide concrete with or without a paver/tiled border. It also looks great with a white aggregate and white oxide concrete.
The days of the orange/red pebblecrete are long gone.
I wasn't going to be so blunt but hey, I agree:2tsup: the use of black cobbles as a border also looks very good athough this sort of thing starts to get pretty pricey due to the added labour and materials.

[alpsy]

Whats looking really good of late is black aggregate in a black oxide concrete with or without a paver/tiled border. It also looks great with a white aggregate and white oxide concrete.

is that in a polished finish?

we have blk concrete with white aggregate polished inside and it looks awesome

for outdoor, white aggregate in white concrete with loose large blk stone border sounds great.

[billbeee]

Hey alpsy, you're getting some good answers here mate, beginner's luck eh?

The most expensive concrete I have ever used (all 45cuM of it) was a white quartz type aggregaten and fines using white cement, all trucked up from south. The job was all polished afterward.

White cement would not be an awful lot dearer than gray, and would definitely be different, though it finishes up light gray not white because of the composition of the rest of the mix. Imagine the old white cement terrazzo mixes you used to see.

It would make a nice main floor with a darker border as has been suggested.

I agree with a Burnsey and Tubby2, stencil is passe', one off architect design jobs don't consider it any more.

I wouldn't polish an open area like yours though. I'd go for a good old fashioned exposed aggregate. No bigger than 10mm.

On another part of the white cement job we laid into the top of the wet surface different colours of smooth river pebbles. We then ground and polished the floor. They looked quite effective and set off the standard mix. Something like a few hand fulls of larger dia. smooth pebbles could set off a finer exposed aggregate quite nicely.

In Darwin we pay through the nose for stuff from south, but we have a few small local importers bringing in some nice stuff from Indonesia, like these graded river pebbles, and lava rock slabs.

There is no end to the decorative finishes for concrete, but I'd hate to be parking a car on something really exotic.

If you are doing it to make a feature, make absolutely sure it doesn't crack! People expect and don't notice cracks in normal concrete, but if you have gone to a lot of trouble then any sort of a crack will stick out like dogs balls.

On an area your size, it will cost stuff all extra to make it a bit thicker and use a thicker mesh than standard. Don't let the concretors add extra water to make it easier to lay. Pour it at the correct slump. Full stop.

Just as an aside, the guys that did the last lot of exposed aggregate for me, surprised me by using sugar as the surface retardant. I have always used a retardant supplied specially for the job. They used a couple of kilos of Home Brand sugar in say 10-20 liters of water and laid it on with a hand pumped garden spray.
They also used a 3000psi water blaster. Always with a large fan well away (like 1200) from the surface, but they had the power and the volume of water to hit it and finish it off at the optimum time. No p--ssing about with tiny Karchers or garden hoses. They did a twenty odd meter long driveway with a waving serpent like contrasting spoon drain down the middle. Totally consistent with no variation from pour to pour.

Cheers
Bill

[kpalmer]

I'm presently putting the finishing touches to an architectural concrete website.

There will be photos, explanations, a free DVD you can order, assistance on exposed aggregate concrete, polished concrete floors and honed concrete.

We should only be another week or so away from launch and there's a temporary website sitting at our URL at present. Feel free to take a look, if you have any questions or need advice feel free to drop us a line.

Thanks.

The website is at -
http://www.concretewa.com.au

[alpsy]

thanks for all your help guys.

slab goes down tomorrow - nervous with fingers crossed.

will let you know how we go and cant wait to have it polished.

julie

[bugsy]

what about large concrete pavers?

in a terracotta colour.
they look great in a court yard and also will give alittle if movement happens.

you could buy them as you can afford them and put them down

[Burnsy]

what about large concrete pavers?

in a terracotta colour.
they look great in a court yard and also will give alittle if movement happens.

you could buy them as you can afford them and put them down



thanks for all your help guys.

slab goes down tomorrow - nervous with fingers crossed.

will let you know how we go and cant wait to have it polished.

julie
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:doh::doh::doh:

[alpsy]

floor down - looks like ordinary concrete ... lol ... looking forward to having it polished.

also put up the blueboard panels ... should i just have them rendered or do i have other contemporary looking options?

cheers,

julie

[pharmaboy2]

lookin good - - you could render nearly all of it and have the odd narrow section with a flashy metallic tile up to the top for example -

however you really need plant life- a row of yuccas would look good, and putiing them into 1 m long planters with those little wheels on the bottom (with brakes) would mean you could have them down the wall normally, or across the garage door when guests are there - sort of a moveable wall.

[alpsy]

Hi guys,

Walls now rendered, floors polished, stackstone up and bluestone tile around pond.

Need to sort out box around hot water system system, do lighting around concrete perimeter and inside pond, followed by pump / fliter to blow 3 - 4 fountains of water, paint render and then add some plant life. What does everyone think? Anymore suggestions as all the ones given have been great :)

Cheers,

Julie

[Planned LScape]

A few black/grey/blue feature pots with some Yucca, Cordyline or Draceana in them would finish it off, a screen for the stromy pipe and hotty service (I think you mentioned that) too

Have you allowed conduits for the lighting and power under the concrete or behind the walls? Some water lights shining up into the water cascade would look nice, perhaps the blue ones for night effect, and some circular flush lights for the concrete perimter (if you have conduits and wire underneath), if not maybe some wall mounted lights

[alpsy]

was thinking about a box under the hot water system to hide gas pipes and house powerboard and transformers for lighting. screen idea is interesting as it could possibly hide most of the drainage pipe also. just not sure how to do it to look smart and contemporary.

i ran conduit for the perimeter of the concrete ... want to fill with large white or grey pebbles with led lighting. didn't run any for inside pond but believe it can still be concealed well and covered with pebbles. want to shoot lighting at fountain so water spouts look illuminated and then fill pond with a few koi's ... just need to work out filtration for which im thinking undergravel filter.

yukkas and dracaena draco are two of my favourite plants :) just need to to figure out how to incorporate them

cheers,

julie