Tiled splashback?

[Harry72]

Currently doing my kitchen and I've come across a dilemma, were wanting to tile from cabinet to ceiling(no overhead cabs).
The walls that are to be tiled are single rendered brick(in and outside)which has had gyprock stuck directly to it with stud adheasive and construction adheasive alternating at every 200mm/8".
A freind mentioned that the tiles maybe to much weight for the gyprock to support, he suggested it may delaminate the paper from the chalk.

Can this happen or not:?
Im sure the gyprock cant come away from the wall as I've needed to remove a few small area's... needed to use a chipper gun to get it off the wall.
The wall is not subject to any water from the kitchen as the sink is on an island, the kitchen area wasnt originaly intended to be the kitchen was ment to be the dining room, but plans changed. If I had known I would have used Hardy board in the 1st place.:((

If it can delaminate what can I do, could I put heaps of wall plugs and screws to help support it?

[dennford]

I'm pretty sure that I would persevere with removing the plasterboard - even though it is difficult. At least you then know that you have a solid surface to tile over.

Denn

[dennford]

And if you really can't get it off, dont try to fix it with wall plugs. buy some hardiesheet and fasten that with wall plugs and pan head screws forming a completely new surface to tile over.

Denn

[Harry72]

I'd like to do that, but it would take weeks as its adheared that well!

Hmmm didnt think of that, one problem though the cornice is already up and painted

[thesupervisor]

i would just put the hardi board straight over the gyp
and fix on the studs at 250 centres with wafer head screws and liqid nails score the gyp to help key it in just grout up the edges you will never know
and use rubber glue always!

[Harry72]

There's no studs, solid brick

[dennford]

There's no studs, solid brick


so you fasten the hardiesheet to the wall with the panheads - panheads are thinner than the tile cement.

Denn

[thesupervisor]

may have to drill and plug all hole first about 60mm x 5mm should be fine

[mic-d]

You can tile onto the gyprock no problems. The weight of the tiles is borne vertically, not pulling outwards from the paper. Check any of the major tile adhesive websites for their adhesive recommendations.

Cheers
Michael

[China]

As mic-d said you should have no probs with delaminating, I seen bathroom walls tiled floor to ceiling with no ill effects

[Harry72]

China, bathrooms are clad in hardy board(well... meant to be!)

[redheeler]

When having my brick house replastered with gyprock, plasterers' warned very strongly about stud adhesive being used on anything other than timber. Even if it does grab, it will inevitably part ways with a masonary or rendered surface. I have never come across construction adhesive being used to fix gyprock sheets, and know from experience there is a hell of a l;ot of work involved in plastering over rendered brick walls, for a proper job you just can't stick plaster onto render, cornice cement must be in contact with the bricks to adhere properly. I guess you are aware of this. When I was tiling my splashback, advised to score plaster board before applying adhesive.

redheeler

[Bleedin Thumb]

As Mic-d & China says gyprock will hold tiles no worries, getting them off is the hard part!!!!!


Harry why not go solid glass? its not that expensive and is a lot easier to clean.


EDIT . Harry I was wondering if its such a good idea to be having bench to ceiling tiles. The tiles will show up dirt and they will be a PITA to constantly clean. I thought it would be best to tile up to "reach" hight then piant with a low sheen paint. Just my opinion.

[Harry72]

Red, the stud adhesive sticks to plaster/render better than wood!
The gyprock has been on the walls for about 5yrs and can not be pulled off , believe me I've tried. The render/plaster has a better keying surface than construction pine, the construction adhesive is used to hold the gyprock while the SA takes hold.
The trick is to air blast and vacuum the surface so there's no dust too stop adhesion.

BT glass wasnt an option at $5k+(thats more than the whole kitchen...), swmbo wanted the tiles to ceiling level as the kitchen she works in is that way. Plus its not that high as the room is a lean-too type shape, I can touch the cornice without the cabinets in position.

[bricks]

As long as the gyprock is stuck to the wall well enough, and the tiles are stuck to the gyprock well enough, they wont pull the gyprock apart.

Ps I've not seen a new bathroom clad in hardy board, ever. I'm a plumber and I see them every day. The only benefit I know of for useing Hardy board, villa board or what ever is that it is more water resistant, this property is pretty much irrelevant with the quality of water proofing products available now days. I know bathrooms used to be in hardy board because of the water proof properties, i've renovated a few that were, but not any new ones.

[dennford]

, they wont pull the gyprock apart.




That's the bit that would have bothered me - especially if the gyprock has been damaged.

Denn

[Harry72]

Thanks Bricks(and others!)for the advice, you've confirmed what the FIL(retired bricky/plasterer & tiling extraordinare)said.
When he tiles it for me he's going to wall plug and screw it, with thin washers just for my piece of mind!

So they just water proof the gyprock nowdays for wet area's?
What's the waterproofing product they use?

[Bloss]

As long as the gyprock is stuck to the wall well enough, and the tiles are stuck to the gyprock well enough, they wont pull the gyprock apart.

Ps I've not seen a new bathroom clad in hardy board, ever. I'm a plumber and I see them every day. The only benefit I know of for useing Hardy board, villa board or what ever is that it is more water resistant, this property is pretty much irrelevant with the quality of water proofing products available now days. I know bathrooms used to be in hardy board because of the water proof properties, i've renovated a few that were, but not any new ones.

Yep glue tiles straight to plasterboard as has been said forces are shear ie: down not out - no delamination. Check right adhesive, but most good ones will be fine.

BTW - A bathroom not clad with compressed fibre sheet nowadays does not comply with BCA (at least partially in the BCA defined wet areas) and should not pass inspection. I have seen many bathrooms with plasterboard above the midline and ceilings are generally plasterboard which is fine, but a good quality gloss, semi-gloss or low-sheen acrylic (or oil-based) paint should be used - flat PVA paint allows too much moisture through and mould is more likely.

Little reason not to use a waterproof wall board in a bathroom - fixing is fast and simple and if the waterproofing fails damage is much reduced.

Of course most leaks will be through the shower hob where there is relatively constant water flow and moisture can be sustained at high levels for long periods.

The use of the water based polyurethane and other waterproofing systems with fibreglass reinforcing available for some years now should see the end of leaking bathroom floors & walls even of grout breaks down.

[juan]

I am about to replace the ceiling in my bathroom and was wondering whether it would be a good idea to use villaboard rather that plasterboard due to condensation. What are the negatives of using villaboard on the ceiling?

[Bleedin Thumb]

Ps I've not seen a new bathroom clad in hardy board, ever. I'm a plumber and I see them every day.




Mate maybe you just work for some crook builders. You can get moisture resistant Gyprock -Aquatech but it is only as good as the membrane covering it and it would be foolish to use that stuff in a wet area - above the splash zone and ceiling maybe -but in those areas you are not going to membrane so why waste your money?

[bricks]

While it's true that I've only seen bathrooms done with Blue board Gyprock ( wet area gyprock). Judging by the noted resonses of others in other states, perhaps it is not allowed ( it is in sa). Here in SA the entire wet portion of the bathroom is coated with waterproofing membrane.

For the rules maybe someone could clarify that here for us.

[billbeee]

BTW - A bathroom not clad with compressed fibre sheet nowadays does not comply with BCA (at least partially in the BCA defined wet areas) and should not pass inspection. .
Bloss and other posters, I agree entirely that good practice dictates that Gyprock shouldn't be used on bathroom walls, but sadly it is, and sadly it complies with BCA. The BCA is as it's name states, is Australia wide.
You might have local regulators with a bit of sense who have altered that aspect of it. Good on em!

The attached photo I took a few weeks ago in a house for the Defence Housing Authority, who pride themselves on quality work. Figure that out.
Cheers
Bill

[Dirty Doogie]

"I am about to replace the ceiling in my bathroom and was wondering whether it would be a good idea to use villaboard rather that plasterboard due to condensation. What are the negatives of using villaboard on the ceiling?"


Juan - the only negative I can think of is that villaboard is harder to screw into to fix. They make a special screw for fibre cement called a "Fibrezip" with a flush setting head. Using normal Gyprock or timber screws wont work as they blunt going through and wont embed the screw head.

If you intend nailing the sheets up then there is no extra problem (Although I personally find it very difficult to nail overhead sheets).

Villaboard ceilings can be set using the same stud adhesive as gyprock.

Oh - you may also find that villaboard doesnt come in as long a sheet as Gyprock which depending on your sheet layout may mean Butt joins in the sheets - and as the name suggests butt joins are a pain in the Butt!

Doog

[juan]

Thanks Doog, maybe I will settle for the wet area plasterboard.