Top Decking design layout - your opinions please

[WA_decker]

In a post about stirrups just now I was given the opinion of simplifying the layout of the floorboards on my deck. It got me thinking.....

So I wanted as many opinions as to what people think, with some reasons why (you just like it that way, easier to build, cleaner look, etc).

I am using tongue and groove jarrah boards 80X19 with matching tongue/groove ends as well, (hopefully not having to loose board offcuts by not having to cut at the joist). I have a patio (colourbond) put up recently and will be using the 90X90 patio poles as the place where my bearers will go (with Joist hangers). IE - the deck is following the patio exactly with a 100mm overhang.

I want about a 100mm overhang past these patio poles and plan on putting up ballistrade around the whole thing save the two diagonal exits in the hexagonal bay area (middle hexagon bit will be filled in).

Thought best best would be to design it so as to have the joists pointing outward to the edges so overhang is easily done.

I was planning on doing plan no 1, but it could be very difficult for my first deck (not that that puts my off), and am starting to lean towards Deck plan 5 as this will make all joists point out to edge making the overhang easier to do.

Hope to get some good opinions/ideas :)

WA_Decker

[silentC]

My preference is for number 4, or possibly a combination of 1 and 4. I prefer to have the boards parallel to the building with a 45 degree mitre where it turns a corner. I like to see the edge of a single board when looking at the deck from outside, rather than the ends of all the boards - just think it looks more finished.

For the same reason, and since you're having your entry points on either side of the diagonals, I'd probably be tempted to incorporated your radial design, although it is creating a lot of work. If not that, then I would put in a header board at the outside edge of each diagonal bit and butt the boards into it following your pattern in number 4.

[pawnhead]

Bear in mind that if you're using T&G you'll should put a fall on the deck to prevent ponding. I'd hope expansion isn't too much of an issue if it gets soaked. There's some flooring experts on the boards that might chip in with some of their knowledge on that one.

[Dirty Doogie]

I like Deck plan 4. personally I think it always looks better if the decking runs the long dimension of the deck. Just seems like a smoother flow of timber when viewed from inside the house or on the deck.

These aesthetic judgements are very individual and bound to cuase a bit of arguing.

Doog

[WA_decker]

Hi there,

Pawnhead water isn't a huge deal in Perth. Only rains decently for about two months of the year. And in terms of water there is only a small area, say 2-3 sq metres of the 72 sq mtr deck that would get any real rain. Even so, I am thinking of potentially putting a cafe blind or similar on the weather-facing corner perhaps...play it by ear on that one.

Silent C, I also like the smooth edge of the boards running parrellel with the house. It would be a h*ll of a lot easier to NOT do the radial, half hexagonal design, but I am thinking that that could be the feature that makes it...or breaks me :-) ...and yes I could get away with a flashing board where the steps will be if I did decide to not do it.

Has anyone done such a build (radial/hexagon - pic 1) and how much pain am I setting myself up for...? the other thing I am thinking is that there is going to be a table nearly on top of where the radial thing meets, so maybe its pointless and I won't see all the hardwork...I suppose I need someones experience to bring reality to what I have constructed on paper...!

[Dirty Doogie]

Framing up the radial hexagon bit will be a pain and use lots of extra jiost material - and joist hangers wont fit properly - and I suspect being t &G you may not even notice it - normal decking would have a shadowline between the boards and you would see the pattern more distinctly.

You can try it - but it is a job of many buggars!

Doog

[Dusty]

Firstly, nice design work.

Secondly, you appear confident that you can pull off the building process, which is a good thing. So, whichever plan you decide to run with make a solid commitment to it and don't start chopping and changing mid-way though the process. If you do, you'll end up in the excrement.

Thirdly, I dig the one listed as Number 6 (the simplest one)

Fourthly, if I were in your shoes, my main concern would be timber movement after all the hard work has been done.

As you have chosen to lay it as a floor, take care not to make it too tight. You will need to figure in the fact that these boards are still going to cup (a little) shrink, twist & lift.

With all those mitre joins you have in some of those plans, no matter how painstakingly careful and skilled your work is in getting them all spot-on, as soon as the boards start to move you're going to be very disapointed. Of course that's when all the armchair critics will stand there with their hands on their hips going "What happened here, mate"? Looking straight at your once perfect mitre join.

So, over all, it looks great, but maybe consider doing it in decking rather than flooring. Much more forgiving in the long run.
Also, perhaps run a narrow board inbetween where the mitre joins meet, so the mitred cuts don't actually butt up to each other, again, this is much more forgiving if the joins are anything less than perfect, and it reduces the visual impact of any board movement over time.

[Chumley]

I like the basic layout of the 4th picture, with the lengths parallel to the long ends - it does look better to keep the exposed view to the sides of the flooring rather than the ends and the 43 degree mitre looks professional. I also like the half-hex design on the 2nd picture - keeps the same basic idea of flooring sides exposed to view and a similar mitre idea. It would be more messing around with the joists, but I think extra or harder work shouldn't be a factor unless you have issues with time and/or costs. I guess it would be different if you were a professional decker as the extra work and materials would make it more expensive and p'raps less appealing to the owner - but for your own job, I'd go the extra. The floor will look great and you will feel good.

I think I'd also look at decking with a small gap rather than flooring - not just for water run-off (not much of an issue in Canberra at the moment either) but also for post-install movement. Timber seems to move more sideways rather than lengthways, so the mitre joins will only be affected by cupping or twisting - any sideway expansion can use the gap between boards.

Good luck with it.
Cheers,
Adam

[Yonnee]

I'm with those who prefer No.4, but I like No.2's hexagonal section.

[billbeee]

Hi WA_decker,

Good to see it sketched out so well.

I like the half hexagon.

I've done an architect designed 3 story deck, last one had a vertical ladder up into a small platform in the tree canopy. Boards going all directions. (As architects do).

We used standard decking with say 4mm gaps. Kept the same gaps on the angles also. An awful lot of extra work in framing the joists.

Regarding overhang on boards, I had a load of 3000 long Batu boards ready to fix to a 2700 deck, the owner said leave the offcuts on, instead of cutting them off to a nice 35 overhang. I couldn't believe it. The boards were left sticking out past the balustrade nearly 300. The whole deck looked bigger, and when I did another job there 3 years later they were still fairly straight and not twisted.

I have my reservations about T&G outdoors, full stop.

Post some photos when it's finished, sure to be interesting.

Cheers
Bill

[WA_decker]

Hi there,

Thanks for the compliments about the designs...have been studying for the last month on unrelated night school exams, so SWMBO said only design work could be going on for the last two months, so had a bit of time to plan...no play outside unfortunately...but the exam was last Sat, so happy dayz are here when I can start on the deck finally!

I have posted two more designs A and B - which are a mix of what you have suggested with Pic 4 and pic 2. The only thing with combining these two pics is that if I do PIC A, then the hexagonal shape doesn't seem to flow, but it does keep paralell to the house. The PIC B may be more reasonable as it makes the boards flow from the normal laying to the hexagonal as though they are meant to be together....thoughts??

A bit of news...I have already bought the decking. Jarrah Tongue and Groove (I hear the moans, tut tuts and nashing of teech). Your comments on pros/cons and all the other posts I could find regarding tongue and groove does make me shudder a little but I saved $2000 on the 85sq metres I bought. I thought they would go for around $3,500, but I got them for $1400, so I am happy as Larry...I may even be able to get a nice Makita Drop Saw now from the savings :U:U:U.... But we shall see...

Anyhow my house has all jarrah floorboards the same size as the ones I have got. I am also thinking about one day enclosing in the long part of the patio and didn't want a draft or any kind if I decided to do so. I will be using treated H3 MGP10 pine for the bearer and joists, but I am thinking that seeing the ends may get some water I may paint them to be sure and put that membrane tape stuff between each joist to bearer and joist to flooring bit. I was also thinking of painting the underneath and sides of the t&g flooring with a polyeurathane sealant, then do the top with oil.

I am having some issues with the underneath design as well in terms of the Bearers, joists, span tables, stumps, etc...but it is a whole new post and unrelated to this one, which is specifically about your thoughts on how the top should look....

Keep the suggestions coming, it is very helpful to have your persepectives. :bgth:

Cheers guys,

WA_Decker...

[Chumley]

I have posted two more designs A and B - which are a mix of what you have suggested with Pic 4 and pic 2. The only thing with combining these two pics is that if I do PIC A, then the hexagonal shape doesn't seem to flow, but it does keep paralell to the house. The PIC B may be more reasonable as it makes the boards flow from the normal laying to the hexagonal as though they are meant to be together....thoughts??

I'm sure either would look good, especially if you do it yourself, but if I was the owner and you was the builder, you'd be doing A.
Cheers,
Adam

[Dusty]

"A" looks good.

Great deal on the boards. Just don't lay them too tight, give them room to breath, so to speak.

Clicking here (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=47598&highlight=inspirational+deck) will take you to a deck that was being built in a house I worked in. You might find it inspiring.

[WA_decker]

Also, perhaps run a narrow board inbetween where the mitre joins meet, so the mitred cuts don't actually butt up to each other, again, this is much more forgiving if the joins are anything less than perfect, and it reduces the visual impact of any board movement over time.

Hi Dusty. Looked at your pics - what a job - Geesh! Looks pretty cool though - nice view of the ocean as well. I am thinking about a 1-2mm gap between the boards, although there won't be a gap as such seeing its tongue and groove.
Do you happen to know how he did the edges? Looks like he has laid a strip of wood between the mitre joins...as your message that I have included above suggests about putting in a strip. Do you think he ripped a floorboard to around 20mm width, and then put it on its side so it's flush with the decking, then just fixed it to the joist perhaps?

In terms of selecting Pic A, is that cos you prefer a diagonal on the join of the main 'L' shape or cos you don't think there is much of a problem with NOT matching up the vertical boards like in Pic B to the hexagonal shape to give it a continuous flow. PIC A is easier in terms of bearer setup, but increases the corner bearers due to the diagonal.



cheers guys....WA_Decker

[Dirty Doogie]

I still like design A best.

You would have a problem with Design B in as much as the ends of the diagonal boards on the half hex would never line up with the ends of the boards running out to it and that join would be very distracting me thinks!

As for using T &G boards for decking - it should work if you nail near the sides of each board with the nail angled in at about 15 degrees. This stops the boards popping straight up if you do get lots of rain. If nails go in straight whole sections could blow off the joists in drenching extended rain. Water gets into the groove section eventually and is then forced into the edges of the boards by the pressure of the wood swelling.

Another way to stop expansion problems is to rip out the timber on the lower side of the groove. This only needs to be done on every 4th or 5 th board.

Doog

[Fat Chili]

WA decker - if you were to flip design No. 4 over so that lower part of the deck design is on the right you would almost have the same deck I'm in the middle of building. Except mine is around 3 metres off ground level in certain areas and supported (by a steel beam) over my water tank.

I'm just about ready to start laying my merbau decking, once it stops raining :rain2: (which we need as we don't have town water).

Here's an idea of the plans, the actual measurements are different now and their have been several other minor changes. I have also recently contemplated modifying the front to incorporate a similar decking design to that which you have drawn (you've saved me from drawing them to show the boss, thanks :2tsup: ).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/ausjeep/DECKsmlpic.jpg

If you want I can get some better and more recent photo's from above, looking down onto the joists? Better pics will also show you how I over came your decking over hang issue (not shown in the below pic).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/ausjeep/Yardrenosmall.jpg

[Dirty Doogie]

Hey Chili - I like the way the deck hides the water tank.

I know quite a few ppl who are getting big tanks installed and then trying to hide them.

A deck is often a great way to do it. me thinks deck builders are going to have lots of work going as people get more tanks LOL!

Doog