kitchen solid timber benchtops

[TakeTwo]

(first posting -anywhere - hope havn't stuffed up)
thinking of buying/installing solid timber slabs for kitchen benches/renovation. concerned that some rainforest timbers such as red siris [seen at the Timber Show last w/end - or mackay cedar as it was called] might have resulted from yet more radical clearing of land in Qld - but hard to find materials that don't weigh a ton (eg redgum) or cost the earth, or both. Oh, and one piece would pref be quite long 3.3m)...would like to use australian timber of course. might have to go for the planks afterall. anyone out there put in a 'slab' kitchen? pitfalls, general advice? sources of alternative timbers?

thanks
graham
(canberra)

[re do 4 u]

i have timber benchtops, but not solid. i used 22mm particalboard flooring as a base and had it veneered with african rosewood. veneer sheets were 500mm wide, so only one join, and the grain is matched. i built up the edges to double thickness and lipped them with strips of wrc. the entire surface is coated with 3 coats of penetrol oil and it looks and wears fantastic.
using solid boards/slabs will give problems with movement if the wood is not seasoned to suit your house's moisture levels, and some hardwoods take a long time to dry out, but it can be done.
good luck.

[Baz]

Graham, I wouldn't use Mackay Cedar for a bench top, too soft.
Cheers
Barry

[Suresh]

Dear Graham,

I applaud your wish to enjoy your home environment and do it in a way that will not leave you feeling guilty. If you are going to the effort of bringing in a natural product, a timber benchtop, do it in a way that leaves you feeling great about not damaging nature in the process.
The One Stop Timbershop, http://www.timbershop.wilderness.org.au, is a great resource for finding local suppliers that will provide you with recycled timber or timber that has been sourced ethically. I use timber from sources found through this website and it means that I can be proud of where I got my timber rather than being ashamed.

Australia has amongst the worst record for environmental damage in the world. Our governements have been bought by the logging and woodchipping industry and now parrot the logging spin that their timber is source in an environmentally sound manner. This is pure and utter BS, there is plenty of well researched information out there to show that this is crap. The only information that supports the government and logging industry spin is information from bodies that are either set up by the industry or receive extensive money from them. It is a case of he who pays the piper calls the tune.
I applaud you decision to stay away from timber that will leave a stain on your conscience, do the right thing and get timber that you can be proud to have in your home.
Suresh

[Suresh]

I mistyped the URL in the previous post, here is the correct address to the website: http://www.timbershop.wilderness.org.au/
Suresh

[TakeTwo]

thanks for that. now it works fine! great site. a few amazing kitchens...stone and timber...have fired off some particular questions re recycled timbers etc. That, and a prog on TV tonight by an Asian cook (and her kitchen more to the point) sparked off some ideas about not trying to make it too, well, 'kitcheny' for want of better word...maybe to incorporate some custom-designed recyled timber bookcases/cupboards...help it blend in with the rest of the house and all its madness...blend books with utensils, ornaments, etc...
try to get rid of that 'trendy clinical' feel?!
food for thought...pardon the pun.
anyone done something like that/ pickies??

cheers
graham

[Marc]

Has anyone built a kitchen top from a slab?

Would Blackbutt be suitable?

[TakeTwo]

can u believe it. the ACT Govt has just burned over 600 tonnes of rare himilayan cedar to clean up for the next bushfire season. yesterday's canberra times has the details...it was part of the debris from last Jan 18's devastating firestorm that claimed 4 lives and 518 homes. but it was apparently good cedar and was to have been collected by a miller...it was agreed but it hadn't been collected. still they just sent it up in smoke! it would've been ideal, the article said, for outdoor furniture, feature walls, etc...so probably also ideal for kitchen benchtops. which is what i'm looking for...something local, plantation, and not too costly.
there are 5 more massive burns planned in different locations. is there anything this Forum could/should do? write to the Chief Minister at the least! John Stanhope...
ps sorry, dunno about Blackbutt.

[glenn k]

himalayan cedar lasts well out side but it exudes resin even when coated with estopol for many many years.
I built a kitchen from elm with slab bench tops never moved been in ~4 years. Cypress is very stable but is soft. Its easy to get I have ~30 slabs. Most Eucs move to much especially red gum. needs to be attached very well.
The cheapest slabs would be radiata pine it doesn't so cheap in slab form. A friend of mine but the worst pine slab he had as a temp bench in his kitchen and nearly every one that saw it said WOW where did you get that. Its now a work bench top. I have some very large pine slabs several types and still have a few elm I think.

[journeyman Mick]

Mackay Cedar AKA Red Sirus AKA Acacia Cedar is a fairly dense timber and should be okay for benchtops, however stringent dust control measures need to be taken when working with it as the sawdust will burn your nose and throat like cayenne pepper!

Mick

[Baz]

Mick,
According to Peter Robson's Trees of Australia, Mackay Cedar is Albizia Toona or Paraserianthes Toona, I haven't found any description or properties of the timber but I certainly would not call it dense, the Mackay Cedar I have is fairly soft and open grained and has flecks of white thru the red heartwood with white sapwood, I would think the weight would be around the 700kg cube mark. I did have a bit of Red Sirus a fair while ago and I seem to recall that it was fairly dense.
Cheers
Barry:)

[RufflyRustic]

Hi,

What would be your choice of wood for slab-top kitchen benches?
I have some camphor laurel slabs and while it is a soft wood, I was wondering if the oil would be poisonous or simply not suitable unless completely sealed. I don't think I'd use the CL around the sink though.

thanks
Wendy

[Trav]

Have you had a look at Thor's Hammer in Yarralumla? These guys recycle timber, which in my view is even better than using sustainably sourced timber. They don't usually have slabs, but they do make benchtops to order so they should be able to do something for you.

I don't know all that muhc about blackbutt except that it is as hard as ***** and heavy as all buggery. My deck is made from it (recylced of course).

Trav

[Trav]

Suresh - great site and good points about choosing timber based on your conscience as well.

The idea of sustainable timber really comes down to how you define sustainable. If sustainable is to maintain forests in the pre-1800 condition, then nothing is sustainable. If it is to replace native forests with similar areas of regrowth then things are generally sustainable now.

I'm greener than the next man, but I think we need to consider all things in perspective. By limiting any kind of forestry in Australia, we naturally move our consumption to timbers from other countries with lower environmental standards. Simply banning logging is not an option. However, gradually replacing native logging with plantations seems like an great, albeit slow, idea. Woodies should realise, however, that plantation timber has very different characteristics than old-growth timber - particularly in terms of density and grain.

I think the real solution is to educate consumers so that they demand an environmentally friendly product. If consumers demand this kind of timber, food, fibre etc, then farmers and foresters will supply this kind of product. The problem is that environmentally sustainable products are more expensive. Everyone is an environmentalist until it hits their hip pockets - then watch them disappear. If you want an example, look at how many people by recycled paper.

As woodworkers I applaud our use of timber - making timber into furniture etc is the highest value use possible. I personally will not use timbers like merbau or kwila or even WRC. The majority of these timbers are sourced overseas from countries where environmental standards are much lower. If we are to change the world, we need to start here.

[descending from my soapbox now]

Trav

PS - sorry for hijacking the thread.

[conwood]

Hi Graham,
I used a piece of tassy mrytle, 1.8x900x50mm for laundry cabinet top. Only advice is to measure 10 times and cut once. I commenced the hole for the standard laundry tub by drilling holes one the corners. Sat tub upside down to ensure accuaracy then ruled lines between points. Power saw was used to cut the hole.

Only other issue, was the clips to hold the tub, as most of the clips are for 19-35 mm thickness tops. I had to get clip extensions to hold in 50mm thick top.

I finished with urethane and still looks great 8 years later, although I probabaly would use something else now to finish.

I made the cabinet too, and used bits of the same main piece to turn knobs. Still got some nice chunky pieces left over and one day I wil do something with them.

Cheers,
conwood

[Don777]

HI Grahem,

I different idea for kitchen beach top is partical board base then cover with select grade Hardwood flooring then some half round jaarah moulding (32mm) on the edges..
I have made this style in my parents kitchen,( praticise) , then did my own kitchen the same way.. alot of sanding then 4 coat of polyurithan ( i know not spelt right)sanding inbetween each coat...
looks a treat the jarrah and handwood look great together adn hard wearing and you can walk on it.

Don

[Greg Ward]

Red Sirus is used in Hogs breath Cafes.....so it will handle the tough stuff.
Pines such as Norfolk, Bunya are OK, but a bit soft. Camphor is good, Rosewood is good and hard and blue and red gums are fine, but need good sealing. Tas blackwood works OK, but must be dense. Himalayan cedar (deador) is good, and a beautiful odour, you can imagine the scented cedars of Babylon, well a few thousand years ago if you have a good imagination. All ned good sealing or if oiled, resanding and oiling eaach year
To obtain any timber type you want, with the wood shows about to start, contact Malcolm at Boutique Timbers 0265 858296. He can bring some to any show for you.
Regard
Greg Ward

[Wildman]

I had recycled blue gum made into benchtops by Shiver me Timbers in Williamstown, they look sensational but are extremely heavy and even with extensive sealing are moving a fair bit. I sanded and sealed with 4 coats of organic timber oil (tung based) and then waterproofed with a beeswax/emu oil wax which needs re-application every few months with a rag to maintain the waterproofing, especially around the cooktop and sink. I have steel brackets underneath with screws that can be adjusted to pull the benchtop down where it curled up to pull it flat. It takes some time but it is working. Hopefully I can pull them flat again and have them stay there over time.

[arms]

this is where you go wrong,ANY cutouts in a timber benchtop MUST be coated with or covered with a similar coating to the surface coating or it will accept moisture and water and split,i am sorry to say this, but READ the instructions or do your research BEFORE you attempt to do timber tops and the result will always turn out as you plan

[Gingermick]

Mackay Cedar AKA Red Sirus AKA Acacia Cedar is a fairly dense timber and should be okay for benchtops, however stringent dust control measures need to be taken when working with it as the sawdust will burn your nose and throat like cayenne pepper!

Mick
Blokes in the woodturnning club call it sneezewood

[Carpenter]

The biggest pitfall with slab benchtops is the potential for cuppin. Obviously the propensity for cupping depends on timber species & how each slab is milled & the resulting grain profile when looking from an end section. The one thing that you can do to arrest this potential problem is to "envelope seal" the benchtop (sink cutouts as well). This means that every surface is coated with a non porous finish, usually limiting you to a two pack flooring product which is as hard as buggery & takes the knocks. Organic oil based products still allow for moisture transfer to & from the timber, & that is what causes the cupping. For example, if you have a slab that is nice & flat, & you "envelope seal" it, the miosture content is "encapsulated" in the slab & stability ensues. However, if you coat the top of the bench with a porous oil coating, moisture can eventually find its way into the top layers of the slab while the underside remains bone dry, & this causes differing tension between the top layer & the bottom layer, & so cupping occures. The thing is unless an eperiences eye can look at the end grain & make an educated guess on whether the way it has been milled will promote or negate cupping, the safest thing to do is to go the two pack envelope seal.

[Wildman]

I deliberately didnt go the two pack option as I wanted the benchtop to be easily spot repairable. Benchtops take a lot of harsh treatment and the poly surface coatings scratch easily and cannot be easily repaired. A scratch in an oiled top can be rubbed out with sandpaper and re-oiled/waxed without showing up. All cutouts were heavily oiled before the sink went in, the underside was also sealed before the bench went down. I was not kidding myself that movement would not occur and so far it is within acceptable levels of a few mm (can only be seen when the ends are sighted along) with one corner rising approx 8mm before the steel brackets and long screws pulled it back. It is currently less than 3mm and appears stable and considering it is over 700mm bench width it is not too bad.

Cheers
Ben

[aussiecolector]

I have iron bark bench tops and am happy. I just oiled them and left them floating not screwed down for fear that any shrinkage mite crack them.

[toolman]

I have 45mm thick solid Jarrah bench tops which I made by biscuit joining 190mm wide boards and gluing with PVA. I first cut the boards in half (lengthwise) and then alternated the grain direction to minimse movement.

I painted all sides of the bench with Cabothane satin and added the CFP hardener to it. After nearly two years there has been absoltuely no movement at all and the surface has proved to be extremely hard wearing and looks great.

The Jarrah I got from Bunnings for about $13.00 a L/metre. It was sitting in with the F17 structural hardwood and when I saw it I just bought all that they had available. Apparently it was a special order and when the person didn't pick it up they didn't have a code to sell it under so they just put it with the F17.

When I did my island benchtop I didn't bother cutting the boards in half and there has been no cupping with that method either.

I did all my benchtops for about $300 and made an outdoor table with the rest.

Regards

Toolman