Grey Water System Odours

[spartan]

Hi all....

I live on acerage property that is about 20 years old. We have a spetic system, and a grey water system. We have been in the house for 3 years...

We are getting the sulphur dioxide type smells in the bathroom closest to the tank.

I've tried all sorts of active enzyme type treatments - but it seems as soon the grey water has been settling for a few hours then it starts to stink.

The tank drains to our backyard by some form of float type system - when the water reaches a certain level a valve is opened and the water flows out (I don't think its electric etc).

My question is this.....does anyone have any simple tips on rectifying this issue....Is it time to update the system - if so are there any recommendations....

[Cliff Rogers]

I'm interested to hear what others say about this too.
We have a new septic system, less than 2 years old & it gives off more smell that the one that is now about 20years old & has a caved in lid. :shrug:

Some of the smell comes out the vent pipe & I think we need a taller pipe but there is a smell down near the tank as well. One plumber (not the one who supplied & installed it) suggested attacking the tank with a tube of silicon & goopping up all the joins around lids & openings.

Same bloke said to find some roadkill like a dead wallaby or possum & chuck that in the tank, he reckons it makes them work better.

[silentC]

Grey water systems seem to either use bacteria or chemicals to do the business. Ours uses bacteria and the only thing that will make it pong is if it isn't getting enough aeration for the bacteria to do their thing. The water is aerated with an air pump - it used to be a sump pump but that was costing too much to run. Have either of you got this type of set up?

[Cliff Rogers]

Ours is a single tank septic system & is mean to be anaerobic & gravity feed so we don't need any pumps.

Here is a snip from a document about what causes odour in a sewer system.
Not exactly what we are talking about but will give some idea to the cause.

..............
WHAT CAUSES SEWER ODOURS?

Before detailing HWC’s approach to odour control it may be useful to briefly discuss the formation of sewer odours. Many factors have the potential to contribute to the generation of odours in a wastewater transportation system and many different odorous compounds are produced by sewage. However the most prominent factor by far is the release of hydrogen sulfide gas (H2S) from sewage which has become anaerobic (septic) due to retention time in the system. After around four hours sewage begins to become anaerobic and dissolved sulfides are formed. The higher the concentration of dissolved sulfides the greater the potential for the release of H2S leading to nuisance odours in the community and corrosion of components of the wastewater transportation infrastructure. Other factors affecting the potential for release of H2S are pH levels, turbulent flow conditions and trade waste discharges. The problem is further highlighted by the sensitivity of the human olfactory system to very low concentrations of H2S in the atmosphere.
..........

[silentC]

Well one thing my old man told me about septics is that they take awhile to start becoming effective. They form a crust on top and it takes time to build it up to a reasonable depth. I'd have thought 2 years would be long enough though.

[Cliff Rogers]

Also found this (http://www.egipps.vic.gov.au/Page/page.asp?page_Id=182) just now. I'm going to try some lime next.

It seems that I may have hi-jacked Spatan's thread as there is a differance between grey water & septic systems.

[silentC]

I'm going to try some lime next.
Yeah, that rings a bell. Something else the old fella said. Hey, he's about to swing past your place on his way to the cape. Maybe I should send him a message and get him to drop in and have a look. He's a grey water system serviceman down here :)

[Cliff Rogers]

....the old fella .... about to swing past your place on his way to the cape. Maybe I should send him a message and get him to drop in and have a look. .....
Thanks, I'll try the lime, let him have his holiday.
It is about 12° & blowing a gale & drizzle outside here at present & I'm sitting inside with a cold that would kill a brown dog. :ill:

[silentC]

It is about 12°
And he shaved off his 20 year old beard the other day! He'll catch cold for sure.

Back to Spartan's question, it might be worth contacting the supplier of the system. I don't think grey water systems have been around for that long, have they? Do you know what make it is?

If you're thinking of updating, I reckon Biolytix (www.biolytix.com) is worth considering. It uses worms and you can put food scraps in it as well. They're about $7,000 retrofitted to your existing septic tank.

[Cliff Rogers]

.... he shaved off his 20 year old beard the other day! He'll catch cold for sure.....
Only if he comes up to the Tablelands, the coast is warmer & the other side of the range is dry.

[woodcutta]

Our system is as Silent says uses bacteria both aerobic and anaerobic to break down waste.

When it started to smell a few weeks ago we contacted the service company and they advised us to pour a large tub of yoghurt in the toilet and flush it down. Within 4 hours - no more smell

woodcutta

[Cliff Rogers]

Any particular flavour? :D

[journeyman Mick]

Not sure about grey water systems but with the old style single tank septics it is possible to under-use them which leads to odour. This usually happens with new systems. In this case you can fix it by tipping a tin (or a few cups of dry) dog food in. This gives the bacteria something to feed on.

Mick

[Cliff Rogers]

....with new systems. In this case you can fix it by tipping a tin (or a few cups of dry) dog food in....
That has to be better than looking for a dead roo. :2tsup:

[journeyman Mick]

That has to be better than looking for a dead roo. :2tsup:


I can save you the looking, there's a four day old one just across the road from here if you want. Heard some noises one night and found a dead roo in the front yard.

Mick

[Cliff Rogers]

Beauty, sling him in the back of the ute & kick him out the next time you are past my way. :2tsup:

[munruben]

Had this problem when I bought this place 5 years ago, septic system really stank. I forget who told me, but was told to stick a few packets of bi-carbonated soda (baking powder) in the septic tank and seal the lid with silicone, which we did and sure enough the stink went away. Just bought the stuff you get in your local super market. We still get that once in a while whiff but on the whole, no smell.:2tsup:

[woodcutta]

Any particular flavour? :D


Any flavour as far as I'm concerned Cliff - It should all end up there! ( then again I suppose it does - just not via my digestive system):rolleyes:

[journeyman Mick]

Beauty, sling him in the back of the ute & kick him out the next time you are past my way. :2tsup:


Sorry, don't do takeaway:D You'll have to come and pick it up.:doh:

Mick

[spartan]

Hey what happened to my thread!

You go and install a couple of RCDs and people forget all about your grey water question....:((

Anyway...Our septic system is separate to our grey water system. The septic was pumped out recently as it stank badly too! I guess it was masking the grey water smell! At any rate, The grey water goes into what would appear to be a about a 1000 litre Everhard concrete underground tank. In the middle of the tanks in a valve - it looks like an overgrown version of the master cylinder in your toilet. When its covered in water - it drains the water out.

All three bathrooms and the laundry feed directly into it. There is a grease trap some 20 metres before the grey water tank feeding off teh kitchen - there are no solids in the tank. Although there is plenty of crusty looking stuff growing on the sides.

It has a solid iron access plate. When the water reaches the certain level it leaves the botton of the tanks and goes into a smaller tank about 50 litres and then from there into 50mm agg pipe and is dispersed to the backyard.....

When the septic stank the activezym from bunnings worked fine.......

I was considering getting the gurney out and blasting the crusty mouldy looking stuff off the walls and then scooping it out to see if that made any difference....:?

[Cliff Rogers]

Hey what happened to my thread!....
Anyway...Our septic system is separate to our grey water system. ....
Yeap, sorry. :-

From the reading I did today, your grey water will become septic & start to smell if it is left to stand for more than 4 hours.

Looks like you will have to work out a way to get it to empty out sooner or try SilentC's air pump idea.

[Big Shed]

Grey water systems seem to either use bacteria or chemicals to do the business. Ours uses bacteria and the only thing that will make it pong is if it isn't getting enough aeration for the bacteria to do their thing. The water is aerated with an air pump - it used to be a sump pump but that was costing too much to run. Have either of you got this type of set up?

Silent, at the risk of hijacking this thread (?), could you give some more details about the air pump.

I am using a 750W sump pump (Davey D40VA) and you're right the running costs add up.

[Burnsy]

We are getting the sulphur dioxide type smells in the bathroom closest to the tank.



Is the smell coming up the pipes? If so you probably need to fit a p-trap to your floor waste or shower because the water sitting in the trap should stop the smell. We have a biosystems setup that has the aerator and sump pump for pump out. With ours you can add the bacteria to the poo side and drop some chlorine tablets in the clean water (pump out chamber) if the smell is coming from there.

However if the dog runs past and rips the cord out of the power point thus disabling all pumps and alarms, you are just screwed - real poor design as far as I am concerened - this happened last week, I smelt it when it got to the top of the tank, shyte everywhere:o . Pumped it down and now we have to start all over with balancing the different parts of the tank again:rolleyes:

[Burnsy]

Silent, at the risk of hijacking this thread (?), could you give some more details about the air pump.

I am using a 750W sump pump (Davey D40VA) and you're right the running costs add up.
Our blower is a Medo brand, designed specificly for aerobic sewerage treatment systems. Air from the blower is piped into the water via several 20mm pvc pipes.

[ozwinner]

When it started to smell a few weeks ago we contacted the service company and they advised us to pour a large tub of yoghurt in the toilet and flush it down. Within 4 hours - no more smell

woodcutta


In this case you can fix it by tipping a tin (or a few cups of dry) dog food in. This gives the bacteria something to feed on.

Mick

Maybe this should be moved to the cooking section..? :U

Al :q

[Ramps]

Spartan
Sounds like a typical greywater tank ... should have no bacterial action (either aerobic or anaerobic) ... of course it will o some degree. You're right on with the gurney as I used to blast out mine at the beginning and later in summer as that's when the scum seems to build up and smell.

A blast and a light sprinkling of lime (don't want to kill the plants that it gets pumped onto) should get rid of the smell immediately ... unlike a septic ... keep it clean as you can.

[spartan]

Is the smell coming up the pipes? If so you probably need to fit a p-trap to your floor waste or shower because the water sitting in the trap should stop the smell.

Ok, I'm interested......

Although I can't quite picture what you are referring to.

The smell appears to be coming from the pipes....but with slab on ground construction is this p - trap thingy still possible?

I notice that the bottom of the pipe in the shower is about 700mm down...and there is usually some water in it....

[Burnsy]

Ok, I'm interested......

Although I can't quite picture what you are referring to.

The smell appears to be coming from the pipes....but with slab on ground construction is this p - trap thingy still possible?

I notice that the bottom of the pipe in the shower is about 700mm down...and there is usually some water in it....

P-trap is the s bend that holds water in it, so if you can see water down the pipe then you have them fitted, they are a legal requirement so you should have them, can't retro fit to pipe in concrete without major works:oo:

There should be no smell coming up the pipe as the water in the p-tap stops the air movement between the tank and the floor waste, try putting some draino or bleach down your wastes that smell. Sometimes if wastes are not regularly used and threfore flushed out they can get smelly.

[wonderplumb]

Best way to stop a septic stinking is to get a bucket of crap from your neighbours septic and tip it in yours, gives the bacteria a nice little kick along.

[Cliff Rogers]

Well there is a different version 'of going next door to borrow a cup of sugar.' :D

[silentC]

Silent, at the risk of hijacking this thread (?), could you give some more details about the air pump.

I am using a 750W sump pump (Davey D40VA) and you're right the running costs add up.
Mine is a Sakuragawa air blower (http://www.pumpserv.com/hiblow.htm). They are quite pricey, about $800 I think. Our system is a Supatreat. Going back 5 years or so they came standard with one of these. Then they dropped the air pump and started installing them with an Orange submersible pump. Apparently the sump pump is more reliable - they were having a lot of maintenance problems with the air pumps. It was a commercial decision to cut down on maintenance but unfortunately it doubles the cost of running the system. The old man got hold of an air blower and we have pulled the sump pump out. The sump pump uses about 3kwh per day, the air pump uses about 1.

[spartan]

Ok, I made a call to the local council and asked them...what type of grey water system do I have?

They were pretty helpful...but only about half right.....

I've taken some photos of the system

The first photo is of the outside of the tank....lid open.

The next photo is the inside...its an everhard 450 litre tank. There in the centre of the tank appears to 100mm pipe with a cap and a 25mm conduit coming out.

There appears to be no power/pump involved....when the water get to a certain level it drains off about 20 m to the smaller tank in picture 3....from there its ag pipe dispersed to the backyard.

I think the problem can be seen in picture 2 - at times there is too much water left in the tank for too long. There is probably about 150-200 litres of water there. if no additional water is added for an extended period of time...then I think that's when the stink comes in.

I've taken to the gurney to it and put lime in there as well - that get rid of the smell until it fills again....

Any idea?

[Qldp]

It sounds like you have a system that syphons the grey water to your trenches.
I have never heard of this type before, however in theory it would work great under the right conditions. The syphon action would release a large amount of water every time it drops(syphons) thus ensuring no sediment build-up in your pipes.

First problem that others have mentioned is the retention time in the tank. If the water sits for ANY length of time it will smell. So no water no smell.
To overcome the water sitting in the tank you would need to prove it was a syphon valve which is pic 2. You have two choices, you could dismantle the valve, which would allow the water to flow from your house directly to the dispersal area. Or you could bypass the holding tank(which from what I can see is of no use at all.The only reason there is a holding tank installed on grey water is if you need a pump to pump the waste water up hill).

To bypass the holding tank would mean some digging.

The other possibility is that your black water from your septic tank is also going into your holding tank.A drainage plan from your council should help.

The other problem of the smell coming back into the bathroom could be related to your holding tank dropping 200lt in one hit which could syphon the water from the floor waste or any other trap. Your house vent should overcome this, but if your vent is only 50mm it may not.

When the tank drains, does it drain out totally(can you see the bottom and the outlet)?

Just a few Ideas.

[spartan]

thanks... The septic tank is separate - and was only completely emptied a couple of months ago...I checked it and it is no where near over flowing....

You point about the house vent is interesting....

I have three from memory..one near my kitchen and grease trap, and one each in the toilets in the main part of the house.

The closest one to the bathroom that smells is the kitchen one and thats 7 metres away.....

[spartan]

I just thought I'd close the loop for those who are either interested or who may be searching for solutions or things to try for similar problems....

After this last thread I had a handful of plumbers around to give me a quote on what was needed to fix the problem....

Most agreed that a second mortgage was the first thing that was required....

So I told them to go hold a bank because that was the only way they were going to get that sort of money.....

So there I was at work...talking to some of my colleagues...actually pondering over how good Big Shed's mathamatics was when I posed the question to collective group...

A mate of mine told me a story about a long retired plumber that had a fix for him....

Now I explained the problem about grey water odours and all that as described here and the message got was pretty clear....

any smell in a toilet/bathroom try this trick first....at least where there is an s-trap

1. Get a glass of water...and pour it around the rubber seal where the toilet enters the floor. If the water drains away - you have fumes entering from the septic/sewer....

So i did this and the water drains away relatively quickly.....I think that this makes sense as the toilet has been in for 20 years or so.....

So out with the silcon and 10 minutes later no smell.....problem fixed....

The frustrating thing was that I put up with it for months.... Everything led me to believe that it was the grey water...50 plumbers told spend a million bucks, get a jack hammer to that new slab etc....

and 20c of silicon was all that was needed....

That's why life is great you learn something new every day....This provided me with lots of lessons....

[Qldp]

Bloody hell - how simple was that.

Thanks for posting again, I would not have picked that one. Sometimes we try to complicate things we don't need to.

[Ramps]

LOL
Spartan

funny that we had the the same prob at my old man's house a couple of years ago. The house was 28 yrs old and he was blaming the drains in the bathroom etc. Pouring draino down the drain and claiming that it seemed to work for a while ... I was claiming it was coming form the loo ... again a bit of silicon around the seal and all fixed ... didn't think to mention this as I had assumed that you knew it came from the greywater system

good on ya

fixed!

[woodbe]

they dropped the air pump and started installing them with an Orange submersible pump. Apparently the sump pump is more reliable - they were having a lot of maintenance problems with the air pumps.

I think they're wrong about the reliability. We've been through several of those Orange pumps since they converted the system over. The big advantage they have is that they are virtually silent. Orange is just a cheap chinese pump, they cost a fraction of a decent pump.

woodbe.

[elkangorito]

In the late eighties, I used to work for Biocycle, a company that made domestic & commercial waste water treatment systems. I learnt a lot while working for them.

Possibly, the most important thing about any type of treatment system is the BOD (Biochemical Oxygen Demand). The organisms in the water/effluent use oxygen as they 'evolve'. If the demand for oxygen exceeds the supply of oxygen, you end up with lots of undissolved solids & a stink (rotting organisms).

There are many solutions used to overcome these problems. By far, the most simple & common is the use of aerobic bacteria that already exists in water. This bacteria is stimulated oxygenating the water. The easiest way to do this is by using an air blower.

In addition to the above method, certain products can be used to ensure that the build up of solids & smell is virtually eliminated. One of those products that I have used in the past is Actizyme. It's available at supermarkets throughout Australia& is not expensive if used correctly.

The worst thing you can do for any waste water treatment system is pour 'draino' down the sink, as it kills lots of useful bacteria.

In households with septic systems, other problems can become apparent if the family has all been using antibiotics - the antibiotics released in urine will also kill the useful bacteria in the waste water treatment system.
Families that traditionally use lots of oil in their cooking also have problems with the rapid build up of solids in their system & they also suffer many drain blockages.
Actizyme will prevent all of these things. BTW, I don not work for nor am I connected with the product in any way, shape or form.