Laying hardwood floor

[Wongo]

Hi team,

I am about to lay some T-G spotted gum floor in the kids playroom. (Thanks studley:) )

I have never done it before so I need your advice.:- Anything you know will help.:2tsup:

What kind of nail to use? Do I drill a pilot hole first? Can I do secret nail with my T-G floor boards? How big does 1 m3 floorboards cover? Sanding? Finishing? ……

Thanks in advance.

[Fuzzie]

I laid some recycled brushbox flooring a while back mating up to 'professionally' laid new brushbox flooring. The floorers used air nail guns and weren't took concerned about splits, they just filled them with spackle and red stain before finishing. uggh :oo:

My old boards may have been dryer and I hand nailed but I found I had to pre drill. I also used longer nails. When it came to finishing, punching down the nail heads went quite slowly until I started using the 3lb hammer, the nail punches I had all mushroomed at both ends eventually, I ended up grinding both the point and head occasionally to get the punches back into usable order.

I tossed up whether or not to buy flooring cramps, in the end I just screwed down a board and used sliding timber wedges to tighten up each set of boards before nailing.

The hardest thing was to sort the floor boards and select the best ones to cut and where. You don't want to end up with a room that has all long boards at one end and all shorts at the other.

Not having a compound mitre saw I just made up a jig out of a bit of softwood sleeper and other offcuts that let me cross cut the boards simply with my old Skil saw.

After all the hard work, I had a great deal of ongoing satisfaction seeing that floor every day until we sold that house! However each time I looked at the filled 'professional' job I got the creeps!

Have fun, wear gloves and safety glasses. Hold the punch monkey grip style, (fingers and thumb wrapped in the same direction), it might save a few mashed knuckles.

[glock40sw]

Wongo.
Go to www.timber.org.au (http://www.timber.org.au) and download the flooring installation data sheets and all will be revealed.

Hire a secret nailer and the nails.

What is the floor going to be nailed to?

Give us a Cooee.

[Wongo]

What is the floor going to be nailed to?


Hardwood beams.

Thanks glock40sw and fuzzie. That was really helpful.:2tsup:

[namtrak]

How wide are the boards?

Assuming they normal 4 inch ones then:

I just laid about 90sqm of the Studleys stuff in our extension (see thread photos etc) and these are my tips:

It comes up a treat.

Hire a secret nailer and hammer from a hire shop. (you need a compressor as well)

Buy the brads from a hardware store.

Assuming your skirting boards will go over the top, then that gives you some room to move with the first line of boards, but try and get them perpindicular to the opposite end of the room (dont assume a square room - especially if you built it yourself :) ) and check it as you go

When cutting the boards to length dont cut the end matched bit, and always make sure your cutoff saw is cutting square.

Use whatever form of leverage you can to press the boards together as you go. I used a crowbar into the ground under the floor and got heaps of leverage.

Dont fret about the gaps, I had some around 1 or 2mm and was a it worried about it, but it came up fine once it was sanded.

Bang the crap out of the nailer when running the boards in.

Consider using liquid nails as well, I rang some across the joists prior to laying each boards - just for piece of mind.

You will probably need a bradder to finish off the last few lines of boards.

Consider getting them professionally finished, we did and it was definitely worth it, cost $27 per sqm but much better job than I could have done.

Cheers

[billbeee]

Wongo,
Fuzzie has got it right as far as I'm concerned.
I almost never did secret nailing, and NEVER used a nail gun.
I never once tried sanding and sealing myself. I always got a pro to do the job.

I have my take on laying timber floors here.
http://www.builderbill-diy-help.com/trim-carpentry.html

Here's part of what I say.

Make absolutely sure that the boards are dry, test before you lay. They might have been kiln dried etc, but that was then, what about now? (I am talking about natural timber here, not man made floating floors).
Check your floor joists and straighten as needed. You won't get another chance.
If you have the slightest doubt that the floor joists are a bit light on, a bit springy, never mind what anybody else says, stiffen the whole floor up with a couple of rows of bridging or noggins or herringbone bracing.
I've got a bad back and arthritis in my knees, but you will never convince me to lay a quality floor with a nail gun. An old floor sander and finisher once told me that he could often feel the boards moving under his large machine, when they had been fixed with "T" nails.
Cramp it and cramp it tight then fix it solid.Cheers
Bill

[sol381]

You never stated how wide the boards are. Im pretty sure you cant secret nail anything over 80mm. if thats the case just pump 2 45mm t-nails into each board. Get 3 floor cramps and cramp every second joist using a scrap piece of flooring so as not to damage the floor.
You should be able to lay about 10 rows before having to nail off.. just make sure when you do cramp the boards dont jump out.. Use a level or piece of flooring across the boards and stand on it while you cramp.. You `ll need the level anyway to draw your nail lines.

[glock40sw]

G'day All.

No mainstream flooring manufacturer produces 80mm Top nail T&G anymore. It is all Secret nail. To say" Cramp it" is wrong.. The secret nail profile is designed to be laid with the secret nail gun.

If you cramp and topnail a secret nail profile board, you will fracture the top of groove due to excess pressure being applied via the cramps.

Sure 130mm cover boards can be topnailed. They are designed to be topnailed.

Please. Do your collective selves a favour and download the installation data sheets from www.timber.org.au (http://www.timber.org.au) and enjoy being dragged kicking and screaming into the "new" flooring installation process.

Wongo. be careful. there is a lot of misinformation floating around out there.

Why not PM Dusty or Larry McCully. they do it for a crust and know all the ins and outs.

[namtrak]

Which reminds me.

I also used small pieces of cutoff between the leverage I was using and the boards to as not to dent the tongue/groove on the board.

And where I couldn't get enough leverage then I used the wedge method described by Fuzzie.

I did look at clamping the floor, but the joists were too wide to fix the clamps to, and at the end of the day they weren't needed - in most cases just a tap with a hammer was enough - it was only on the odd occassion that I needed to apply serious pressure to the boards.

And for the record, Studley boards are kild dried and treated.

[ex-chippie]

G'day Wongo,

Having layed a few m2's over the years, these are my recommendations. Upto 90mm boards to secretnail(Aus standard) or as you wish in a top nail version. Help yourself by getting e/m and s/n (end matched and secret nailed), no cutting over joists or pre drilling, nailing, punching and puttying thousands of nail holes(not to mention looking at them for ever).

1: Straighten all your joists
2: Stack all the boards (one layer north/south and the next east/west) with gaps inbetween so they can aclimatise.
3: LEAVE THEM FOR 14 DAYS !!!!!!!So they can aclimatise.:~

THE FUN BIT!!!!!!!


4:Use a string line 10 mm away from your longest straight wall(from end to end) to use as a guide for your first board (must be suuuuppppeeeerrrr straight) or you will have wonkey boards throughout.
5: DO NOT USE LIQUID NAILS AS THAT WILL GO HARD AND CREAK IN TIME, YOU NEED TO BUY FLOORING GLUE IN A "SAUSAGE" FROM ANY DECENT HARDWARE!!!!!!
6: Lay your first board "top nailed" as to hold it down in a straight line, don't forget to use glue.
7:From here on in you can lay 1 row at a time and secret nail it down and within a few rows, you will be a wiz at it , it may also help to have a second person to handle and fit the boards into position.
8:Don't put 2 joints next to each other inbetween side by side joists as they will creak almost immediately.

As much as i have been quick to explaine my experience, a lot of it should be self explained once you get going.

Best of luck, Jason.:2tsup:

[Wongo]

Thanks guys. You have been very helpful.:2tsup:

Jason, is it OK to secret-nail every row?

I am actually a bit nervous.:- It is one of those “Just do it Wongo” things I suppose.

[glock40sw]

Thanks guys. You have been very helpful.:2tsup:

Jason, is it OK to secret-nail every row?

I am actually a bit nervous.:- It is one of those “Just do it Wongo” things I suppose.

Yes. Every row has to be secret nailedexcept the first row.

Glue to use is Bostik Ultraset or Sika T55j.

[ex-chippie]

G'day again,

Only the first board needs to be top nailed (providing you're using boards under 90mm in width), and the secret nailer can be use all the way through except the last couple of boards up against the plaster (if fitted) where you still secret nail but by hand with a 50mm bullet head nail.

Good luck,
Jason.

[Wongo]

I used the long weekend (Monday Bank holiday :D) to do the floor. As usually the job is always 10 harder than expected. :-

I started early on Saturday. ME and my FIL pulled old chipboard out, removed the nails and by lunch time we were ready to lay the floor boards.

Getting the good bits out of the 2 cubes of Studley hardwood floor was a challenge. I inspected every board, 1 by 1, and was lucky to have enough to cover 20m square.

It was 3 days of hard work. I am glad that it was done on time. I don’t know how but we did it.:-

I would like to think Gareth (Gaza) who kindly lend me his nail gun. Thanks mate.:2tsup:

[glock40sw]

G'day Wongo.
Mate, looks like you did a good lob.
Good on Gaza for lending you his tools too.

Pic 1 shows the subfloor space.
Just make sure that there is plenty of sub-floor ventilation. If water gets under the floor and can't get out, or if there is no air flow to dry the water, you will have all sorts of problems with cupping and board expansion.

Give Gaza a call and see what he thinks.

Are you going to sand & seal it yourself as well?

Again. Top job. Well done.

[namtrak]

The floor looks great - winner!!

More pics when its all done and dusted

[Wongo]

Pic 1 shows the subfloor space.
Just make sure that there is plenty of sub-floor ventilation. If water gets under the floor and can't get out, or if there is no air flow to dry the water, you will have all sorts of problems with cupping and board expansion.


FIL did point out that the soil was a bit damp. Maybe I will get under to have another look on the weekend. Thanks for that mate.:2tsup:

I am going to do another 2 bedrooms and get someone to sand and oil it.

[Gaza]

Scot,

That floor turned out great for liitle out lay. Nice Job.

I would be putting vents in ASAP if the soil is wet as the floor will pick up the mosiuter and expand lifting the bearers and joists up as it goes.

Hope you have recovered by now after your 3 days of hard labour.

[Fuzzie]

Hi Wongo,

Did you really mean to say 'oil it'? I'd suggest water based poly would be a better option for an indoor room. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished result, it looks like you had quite a time patchwork quilting the good bits of flooring!

[Wongo]

Did another 2 bedrooms on the weekend. Amazingly I am still alive.:- The timber is WA Karri.

All the 3 rooms will be sanded and polished this Friday by a forum member. I can’t wait.:2tsup:

[Wongo]

It is all finished. I had Larry McCully and John over to sand the floor on Friday. What a great job they did. Thanks Larry.:2tsup:

I put a coat of sealer and 2 coats of AquaMax water based Satin finish myself. I am very pleased with the outcome. The floor looks a million dollars.

[Gaza]

toby aquamax is one of the best water based finshes you can buy it goes on realy thick and gives a great hardwearing finsh. a lot of sanders dont like to use it as it goes on to slow being thick.

you should go to synteko at chastwood and buy SWBO a nice mop to look after your handy work.

The NSW mixed hardwoods look great it makes the WA KArri look a bit simple.

[Dusty]

Nice looking floor there, Wongo. You must be rapt!

Great work. Larry (and John) It's always good to have a squizz at someone else's hard work. Keep up the high standard. The industry needs it.

[Dusty]

toby aquamax is one of the best water based finshes you can buy it goes on realy thick and gives a great hardwearing finsh. a lot of sanders dont like to use it as it goes on to slow being thick.

you should go to synteko at chastwood and buy SWBO a nice mop to look after your handy work.

The NSW mixed hardwoods look great it makes the WA KArri look a bit simple.

I've heard some good reports regarding this waterbourne product (Aquamax) and it's worth the effort with the application. Although, it couldn't be any worse than applying an Oil Modified Urethane on a hot day and it's starting to go off.

By the way, what's a SWBO? Sheila With Body Odour. ??

[Gaza]

I've heard some good reports regarding this waterbourne product (Aquamax) and it's worth the effort with the application. Although, it couldn't be any worse than applying an Oil Modified Urethane on a hot day and it's starting to go off.

By the way, what's a SWBO? Sheila With Body Odour. ??


Dusty,

You have to stop using those old school finshes come over modern side, we are now using waterbased 85% of the time now and synteko classic in place of poly, classic is a two coat two part system that goes hard as nails when it drys does not leave any air bubbles in coat and does not require wet edge, it just flows on really smooth, you can apply two coats in one day.

old school poly and oil modified are killing you with thoese fumes even just driving aroung with them in your van.

up here we are doing very high quality work for top designers around and my guys know what we expect, they are now using the same products on there standard private jobs because the result is always first class.