Bathroom Renovation Project

[juan]

Well I have finally bit the bullet and started my bathroom renovation. Basically the old bathroom is outdated and too small(2400mm x 1950mm). I have an unused storage area(1700mm x 1950mm) adjacent the bathroom which will enable the bathroom to increase in size of the new bathroom by removing a single brick wall and bricking up the opening on the storage area. The new bathroom will be 4200mm x 1950mm.
An additional room was built on the rear of the house during the 60s. They never removed the bathroom window but just put a timber louvre over it in the family room to hide it. It provided ventilation to the bathroom via the family room.
Quotes to do the bathroom ranged from $40K (putting villaboard on the window wall) to $55k doing it all in solid brick and plastering the bathroom anew.
I have decided to do it with brick and plaster after much debate. I will feel more confident knowing it is all solid.
I am planning undertile heating and have ordered the kit from Bulgaria via eBay (cost $177 including shipping)
I like the idea of a velux skylight/roof window (remote control electic opening) but will delay a decision on that.

I will update as I go along and welcome any thoughts before I progress too far.

Cheers
Juan
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[juan]

The window came out without any problems. So far so good.

Cheers
Juan

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[juan]

Well I have managed to fill the void with bricks and the new bricks provided better support for the brick courses above. The original lintel from 1914 looked a little flimsy but had stood the test of time with limited cracking.
Cheers
Juan

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[patty]

mate is sounds like a big job i renovated my old bathroom 2 yrs ago it took me 3 weeks the room is about 3000x 1800 we crammed in the biggest corner spa we could get and double 1200mm vanity I had to lose the shower recess and now the shower resides over the spa the old door swung into the bathroom I had to put a cavity slider in plus i incorporated a laundry chute in the vanity that leads straight to downstairs to the laundry that will be a big bathroom once ya finished good luck with it mate

[juan]

Thanks Patty,

I estimated 10 - 12 weeks from go to whoa but I plan to keep using the bathroom for as long as possible so the children will not hog our ensuite. I will leave the current things intact until I am ready to strip the plaster off and break up the floor. That will be after the window is put in the outer wall, the dividing wall removed and the other opening bricked up with a cavity wall.

Cheers
Juan

[peter_sm]

Looks well planned out I like it. Our bathroom is 1800 x 3600, so not much smaller than yours, pretty much a mirror image, and planned almost exactly the same way.

I think you can utilise the skylight idea quite well in a bathroom. They are often used at night. A skylight can let in as much light as a window.

Our window is 1220 x 600, and on the south side, so it isn't brilliant. Above the bath too.

[peter_sm]

Oh and time frame. I am jealous of you guys I have been going for 6+ months on a combined bathroom and laundry renovation.

[patty]

no way pete the missus was preggers and ready to pop anytime I was up until well after midnight geez i the neighbours off something chronic! then off to work at 6.00 i would not be jealous of that if i were you mate if ya can take your time do it i know how frustrating it can get and sometimes i thought i was going nowwhere but it all came together I know one of my mates has been going on his now for 1 month now and and the missus is driving him up the wall..t also helped that my bro inlaw is a tiler and i hold dual trade as spark and plumber i tink i should have got it done quicker than that!

[patty]

Juan just make sure you turn the underslab heating off after the floor has heated up and dont leave it on as the elect meter will be spinnin its tits off

[peter_sm]

Oh Patty. My missus was the one who wanted it started when she was preggers. Our son is now 4 months old. She seemed to think it would only take a few weeks. I shook my head, but I had to keep the momma happy.

I was able to install the new bath and fill it for her with hot water in the beginning stages of labour. The water just had to be let under the hose afterwards.

Still it is all worth it. I have been doing everything except for the actual electrical connection and the shower screen installation. Just takes time.

[juan]

Hi Patty

The undertile heating is only 560watts and will be on a programmed timer. Not bad for $177 if it lives up to the promises. By the way I am an electrician so that is a help.

Here is the link

Cheers
Juan

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=280127313671&rd=1&rd=1

[juan]

I have cleaned of 99% of the 10 layers of paint and it looks almost usable keeping the natural look without painting it. I will replace the glass panels with leadlight panels. Tomorrow I will spend and hour with the fine sandpaper and see how good it comes up. Fall back is paint the sucker.

Cheers
Juan

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[patty]

go hard matey

[patty]

I installed i think the brand was devireg or somthin like that complete house for a customer years back it was on a mat and total load was something from memory 14 kw ended up going on offpeak oh by the way they also have the heating mats for bathroom mirrors you mount on lining and grout over no more foggy mirrors i installed one and she works a treat! dont forget the wall mounted heated towel rack also the best thing i ever installed

[juan]

Hi Patty,

Yeah a mirror demister and heated towel rail are in the plan and budget. Have been looking at both on eBay. Will run the wiring before I replaster and it will be there when and if I get them.

Cheers
Juan

[Mcblurter]

Quotes to do the bathroom ranged from $40K (putting villaboard on the window wall) to $55k doing it all in solid brick and plastering the bathroom anew.

We are getting a new room nearly 6000 x 6000, a chimney removed, a concrete wall removed, double glazing, new toilet, sink, tiling in bathroom a second shower, moving existing toilet and a new HWS for around that amount!!! Must be like weddings, add the word bathroom and triple your normal price!:o
Cheers
Mcblurter

[Mcblurter]

Oh, also getting 3 manual openable skylights with electric blockout blinds, two whirleygigs and a suntunnel for around the $8000 mark. Will let you know the progress.
Cheers
McBlurter

[juan]

Well 2 hours work sanding the window and she looks almost usable. Cost for stripper and sandpaper was $27. Needs a coat of clear interior exterior finish($25), 2 brass handles ($12 ea), 2 brass opener slides($19.50 ea) and 2 leadlight panels for which I have been quoted $220 each and she should look ok.
Total cost of window approx $550

Waiting for a builder acquaintance to come and put a steel lintel in for me and saw the opening.

I will now check out the footing for the wall I have to brick up so that I am ready to start bricklaying after the window is in.

Cheers
Juan

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[juan]

Today was cut a hole for window day.
Took 5 hours to cut it and stuff around with 2 lintel bars.
Tomorrow I will finish off the lintels and trim up the stonework ready to plaster around the window to tidy her up.

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Once the plaster and concrete around the lintels is cured I will start bricking up the large wall opening in the foreground of the bottom photo and removing the bathroom end wall.
Old bathroom still going strong.

Cheers
Juan

[juan]

Trying to think ahead re the tiling task.
As you can see in the proposed plan, I will have the shower in a corner. The brick walls will end up re-plastered as the existing plaster is not flash. Since I proposed tiling to 2m all round, I will ask plasterer to only skim coat above 1.90m.
My question relates to the tiling of the shower / wet area. I assume I need to waterproof the whole shower wall and floor area as well as around the bath and around the bottom of the walls to 300mm. Do I need to waterproof the screed on the whole bathroom floor?

Will I need to tape the wall to wall and wall to floor joins of the shower area?
What are the best brand products for the waterproofing?

Cheers
Juan

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[juan]

Well my timetable to renovate the bathroom is slipping behind. Hurry up and wait is the name of the game. Wait on the plumber and the weather.

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Have seriously underestimated the time to make good after the new sewer, gas and water main are installed. I allowed a week but reckon 2 weeks is more likely.

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I have started bricking up the wall. As you can see I am no brickie but it will be all hidden and plastered so that is fine. Soon I will start demolition of the dividing brick wall. First an access hole in the dividing wall, then complete bricking the other wall. Need to keep the old bathroom going as long as possible to limit disruption.

[juan]

Once the dividing wall is gone I will look at putting in a new ceiling with Villaboard at a new lower height of 3.0m rather than the 3.4m. That will be same height as the new extension we are planning which will be at 3.0m.

Q? What is the best way of suspending the new ceiling below the existing lath and plaster one . I had thought of fixing a 100mm x 40mm pine frame around the wall then new joists attached to that frame and suspending them from the existing joists above with pine battens.
Does this sound OK???

[Dirty Doogie]

Sounds OK to me Juan!

If you run your 100 x 40 pine ceiling joists across the narrow dimension of your room you wont have to fix them to your existing joists. Fix the joists with joist hangers to the pine running around the walls, making sure that the pine framing around the wall is securely fixed into the masonry walling.

doog

[juan]

Thanks for that. Not sure what joist hangers are but will look around. I had thought it might be a good idea to support the new joists from the joists above but like your idea better as it will reduce the likelihood of any movement in the new ceiling when I tramp around the roofspace.

Cheers

[juan]

Well the sewer trenches have been filled and the mess somewhat remedied. I am now back at the bathroom. Have almost finished bricking up the outer skin of the cavity wall opening.

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Had to cut an access hole to the extension area. Bathroom still going strong.

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Hope to have the inside wall bricked up to the lintel by end of next week. Big task then is to remove the 300mm square timber lintel and brick it up solid.

Cheers
Juan

[juan]

Well a few more bricks have been laid so here is the latest photos.

Finished bricking up to the timber lintel on the laundry side. No need to worry what it looks like as it will eventually be covered with villaboard or the like when we redo the laundry.

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Started pulling down the wall to get some bricks to brick up the bathroom side of the cavity wall.

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When I have the lintel supported by the two walls of bricks I will hit it with a chain saw and remove it. I will do it in about 3 bites rebricking where the lintel was. It was suggested I should leave the old timber lintel there and plaster over it but I think I would end up with cracks so I will take the sucker out.



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[zacnelson]

Hi Juan, I've been following your reno story with great interest for some time now, thanks for posting the regular updates.

I just have a quick question; when you're building a cavity brick wall, do you use some kind of brick-tie that spans the cavity?

Also, is it common practice to build one side of the wall first, and then the other side? Or is it more usual to build both sides simultaneously?

Thanks,

Zac

[juan]

Hi Zac, I am not a brickie so will leave it to the experts to advise. The opening is only about 1.8m in width but I did put wire ties in the outer skin to attach to the inner as it rises. I also used a couple of reinforcing wires in the courses for form sake. I have taken care to dovetail into the existing courses where it meets the old walls.

I see no reason to not brick them up separately. For me it was a case of get one wall up asap so my daughter would not get shower fright from all the percieved pervs lurking in the laundry.

I should have the inner wall up to the lintel by the end of the weekend. I will let it set a bit before hitting the lintel with the saw. There is only 6 courses of bricks on top of the lintel so if she goes wobbly on me I will just rebrick them - one side will be plastered and the other not really visible unless you get on the roof with a ladder.

Cheers

[juan]

I have started to remove the 2.0 metre long 300mm x 300mm timber lintel.
Started at the old bathroom end wall end of the lintel.

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Took out a couple of bricks above the lintel and hit it with the little talon chain saw. Made short work of it. Time consuming bricking up to the brick courses as I do not have scaffold and am working on steps and a ladder.

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I cut a bit of the cement sheet off the laundry ceiling so I could see what is going on. Laundry is due to be demolished in the coming months.

At this rate it will take 5 days to remove the lintel and rebrick. Then I can start demolishing the old wall and stripping off the old plaster.

[juan]

Today I attacked the other end of the lintel and removed a chunk from the stone wall. I will brick the hole up tomorrow and then let it set before I take 2 more bites to finish it off.

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See the OZITO RHG-550K Rotary Hammer Drill. This little sucker costs $68 at Bunnings and is my favourite toy. I have only use it in destruction mode to date breaking bricks, plaster and weak concrete. It is an amazing tool. Came with a 3 year warranty but if I had to bin it at the end of the bathroom renovation I would still say it is amazing.

[juan]

Finally removed all the lintel and tidied a bit in the laundry. The laundry will be gutted and rebuilt when the major renovation at the rear commences in the coming months so not worried too much what it looks like as the new wall will be covered with villaboard or something. Has blow in insulation above the cement sheet so thought I would close it up again temporarily.

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Can now get back to gutting the bathroom itself.

[juan]

Today I have put up most of a frame for the new ceiling at a height of 3.0 metres.

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Trying to do as much as possible while keeping the bathroom operational. This week I will knock down the dividing wall and give some serious thought to the underfloor plumbing.

[juan]

Starting to knock down the internal wall.

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[Dirty Doogie]

LOL juan - from the photo it looks like an apartment where I stayed in Beirut a few decades ago. Looks like your going to have to decommission the existing bathroom very soon though - that is when the fun starts!

have you got another bathroom?

[juan]

You are right DD I will probably have to pull the pin on the bath/shower tomorrow. Keep the dunny going for a couple more nights. I will start digging the floor in the extension tomorrow. The 100mm sewer is about 800mm below finished floor height and I will have to get the underfloor plumbing through or under the old internal wall foundation.

The dividing wall is now gone and nothing fell down - that is a positive.

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I thought the plumber who did the hot and cold water about 50 years ago showed some innovation in not using bath set but rather just connected up 2 taps. Made his own tee piece too.

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[Dirty Doogie]

Look at all that space behind the old wall!!

I like the creative plumbing you uncovered - maybe you'll find something else under the floor.

I once opened a bathroom wall and found the hot water pipe artfully soldered into a series of right angle corners - about 30 of them. I noticed scorch marks on some of the studs so I assummed they had been done onsite - but I had no idea what it was for! The only thing I could think of was that the boss made his apprentice practice in situ soldering.

[juan]

Plumber coming Monday to do the underfloor plumbing and I am running behind schedule to be ready for him. Problem is I have to get pipes through or under 4 foundations that are about 650mm deep.

My little Ozito hammer drill / chisel is amazing. Breaks up the old floor without any drama.

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[Dirty Doogie]

Woo Hoo! what a mess! I love it ! LOL

[namtrak]

Looks great, will be keeping an eye on this thread as the bathroom is my next job

Cheers

[memphis]

Intrested to hear about the under tile heating, as I am doing a bathroom and have ordered the same stuff. Hope it works out ok, Im assuming it just gets laid in the tile glue as you go.

[juan]

Yes, the heating cable is laid out on top of the screed and is just tiled over. It does not go under any fixtures like vanity and toilet. I hope it performs as well as the reports say it does.

[juan]

Need to make urgent decision on location of floor waste outlet and how best to tile the floor

http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?p=587701#post587701

[juan]

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Here is my original plan showing the tiling on the diagonal in the hope that would make the room looked wider. Really never gave much thought to the location of the floor waste outlet expecting it to be in the middle.

[woodbe]

For what it's worth...

We have a diagonally tiled bathroom, and we have a straight border around the edges.

The border follows the outside of the shower screen, and the pattern repeats inside the shower - there is a border tile all around the inside of the shower, and the centre of the shower is diagonal tiles matching the angle and lines of the main floor.

I've seen it done where the shower is tiled as part of the main floor - the border 'cuts through' the shower screen, and the shower only has a border on the edges closest to the outer wall.

Both look good. I suspect you may find it hard to do a border around the shower without it looking strange because of the size of your tiles. ours are 195mm squares.

You probably need to make some copies of your plan and draw some alternatives on it until you find something you like.

Floor trap, I'd put it in the middle of the floor adjacent to the vanity...

Heated floor is wonderful, but not very economical or eco-friendly :)

woodbe.

[juan]

Thanks Woodbe,

I will go with a central drain and adjust position after I chose the final floor tile but before I pour the concrete floor. I will consult with a tiler to see what they would charge to screed the floor and lay the floor tiles.

It is undertile heating not in slab and only about 600watts . It seems you only need to have it on for about 30-60mins I am told to get a warm tile surface and a cosy feel. I will install a programmable timer which they supplied and put the heated towel rail on at the same time as the undertile heating.

[juan]

The plumber arrived on time and took 3 hours to install the pipes for the underfloor plumbing. Inspection is tomorrow and he has marked out the walls for me to chase for the hot and cold water ready for him to install tomorrow.

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[juan]

Hot and cold water installed in the bathroom and connected back to old storage HWS to test everything is not leaking and working. Plumber back next week to mount the Rinnai 26 HWS and disconnect the old one. Will also extend the 25mm gas main up into the roof space for future use when the main building renovation takes place (soon I hope).

Ran 20mm hot (insulated) and cold under the floor direct to the kitchen to reduce the length of the 1/2" hot water run that currently exists to the old kitchen. Hope this helps the Rinnai deliver hot water to the kitchen in an efficient manner. Plumber will set the switches in the unit to increase the 55 degree factory preset max to 65 degrees. I will install 2 controllers (bathroom and kitchen).

Have run everywhere in 20mm except at the terminations and valves so hopefully that will not be an issue. Have read quite a few negative threads about water temperature from the Instantaneous HWS not being hot enough to do the greasy dishes and am a bit apprehensive.

20mm Hot and Cold run into the laundry ready for the laundry make over.

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[Dirty Doogie]

I notice you went with 2 floor wastes after all ! how are the tiling issues going?

Doog

[juan]

Hi Doog,

Plumber would not allow me only one floor waste so I am stuck with 2. Now the inspection is complete I have even considered closing one over and hiding it under the tiles.

Spoke to Beaumont tiles expert and he suggested just tile floor flat with a small rise near the door. He also said he would not bother with tiles on the diagonal. My brain is in overload on the floor tiling issue at the moment. Maybe I should tile floor with smaller tiles and use slopes to the waste?

Planning to put a new floor in next week and will keep the level of the concrete 40mm below the finished height at the door with a further step down of about 20mm in the shower area. How does that sound???

Dodging the tiling issue at present and pressing on to get ready for the plastering.

[juan]

I have been thinking a full length stainless steel floor channel / grate placed across the bathroom next to the bath hob may be an answer to making the floor tiling job a bit easier.

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Need to check with the plumber if I can discharge from the floor channel straight into the 80mm riser of the floor trap. If so I will move the floor trap back next to the hob as in the photo in the link above.

I would put one in the shower as well on the wall with the door.

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This way I can just slope the floor to the floor grate in one plane and that should allow me to use any size tile I desire and make the installation of the undertile heating just a little easier as well. I will still be stuck with one other floor grate in the middle of the floor but there would be not fall direct to that.

Anyone got any thoughts on the grates as a solution to floor falls and multiple floor traps.

[zacnelson]

Juan, how did you cut those channels in the bricks for the pipe work? What tool(s) were required? Is it very hard to do?

Thanks,

Zac

[juan]

I believe you can hire a saw with 2 blades and a vacuum cleaner attachment that cuts the slot and avoids the dust. That is what you can do. Or you can be a gumby like me and use a 9" (230mm) Ozito angle grinder with diamond saw to cut the bricks and then use the little Ozito rotary hammer to chisel out the channel. Very easy but the dust is unbelievable. I placed a protable fan in the open window and that sucked the dust directly outside very rapidly but I was still covered in red dust. Wore my daughter's plastic shower cap, an old hat, goggles, mask and old clothes. Had to blow down the walls with my garden blower when finished to get the film of red dust off the walls in the room. Luckily by keeping the door shut very little got into the rest of the house.

[Dirty Doogie]

Hi Juan,

those full length stainless grates are mega bucks but they look very swish! So you going to put the grate right down near the bath - what about the floor waste in the middle of the room? Stop it off and tile over it ?

[juan]

Hi Doogie,

Yeah they are not cheap but I think it is the answer to the tiling problem.

The floor trap in the middle will have no fall to it as the floor will be on one plane. I will either just put it there in the tiling or maybe break the rules and tile over it. Worst case senario is I have to take up a tile to get to it if required.

[bricks]

If you tile over the floor trap- Im assuming this is the one at the bottom of the photo, Your basin will not drain properly.

The reason for this is the same reason that when you hold your finger on the end of a drinking straw the water does'nt fall out the bottom, it's an air-lock situation.

The basin line is already at what looks like it's maximum un-vented length from the trap, Tile over the trap and IMHO it won't work.

You can buy a fiting called a "smart tile floor drain" they are expensive ($100) but look good and are easy to install because they are square. And depending on your local regs you can probably fall the floor as tho the second trap isn't there and just install it without the tiles falling to it.

Just my 2 cent's.

[juan]

My plumber has confirmed what you said Bricks. He also does a lot of work for the Hilton Hotel chain and said steer clear of the stainless steel channel grates as they are difficult to clean and need very regular cleaning to avoid smells from mould etc.

I think the smartile is a consideration. Waiting for tiler to look at it and advise best way to go. Waiting on plasterer also. Hurry up and wait is the name of the game.

Rinnai 26 Plus installed yesterday but still supplying laundry and kitchen from it via old 1/2" copper line. Really happy as can see great improvement and expect even better when the new direct 20mm line to the kitchen is swapped over. We tuned the unit up to 65 degrees for the kitchen and laundry and there is a tempering valve on the 20mm line to the bathroom.

[juan]

Plasterer has promised me he will come tomorrow morning and hopefully I am all ready for him. I decided to plaster before doing the floor slab to fit in with the plasterer.

The walls of the bathroom have rising damp due to the breaching of the dampcourse. This shows up quite well in the photo attached. House was built in 1914 and suspect the bathroom was done in the 30s.They just loaded soil up against the bricks above the dampcourse and then put concrete on top. No plastic in those days. Luckily there is no other damp in the house apart from the bathroom walls. The house is unusual for the area as the floor level is about 750mm above ground level outside. There is heaps of room to move around under the timber floors. This has been very effective in eliminating damp in all the walls except the bathroom with a concrete floor.

The wall with the hot and cold plumbing is a cavity wall and the cavity was full to about 1metre in height. I had the end open when bricking and managed to clean out the cavity. After the plasterer had gone I will dig down below the dampcourse (old and new) and ensure a plastic film prevents any material from coming in contact with the brickwork or dampcourse. That should isolate the damp undersoil. All the homes in our area have automatic switching sump pumps in the cellars as the water table is quite high and they used to get wet feet in winter. In recent years the water table seems to have dropped and the pump had not run to my knowledge for about 8 years.

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[Dirty Doogie]

Hi Juan,
The lower walls still look a bit damp in the pics. Also the room looks much narrower than before. I'm curious to know what the plasterer uses in there - is he going to glue on gyprock or trowel plaster the walls?

[juan]

Hi Doog,
Yes there is dampness in the walls and I am told that will take months to disappear but should not be an issue as the source of the dampness will be eliminated. Interestingly it was not so noticeable until I took a photo with the flash.
The walls will be solid plaster. The bathroom renovation quote I received was based on sticking plasterboard direct to the walls and I was not really too keen on that idea and decided to brick up and plaster.

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Plasterer finished first coat on only 3 walls today and is back tomorrow. Bit of a pain for him because there is no floor in yet and ceiling is 3.2m above the dirt. He had to do the top of the wall using a ladder as it was too high for his step up.

The room is 4.2m x 1.95m in size and does look narrow. The ceiling once installed may reduce that feel as may the island bath hob. Problem with old homes is that you have to make do with what you have got in most cases as to move brick walls to make a room wider can be dangerous to your financial stability.

[Dirty Doogie]

"to make a room wider is dangerous to your financial stability" LOL so true!

I've never seen brown plaster mixes before - do you know what sort of mix he is using? I was was curious about how plaster would stick to slightly damp walls.

Your project is moving along - but pretty soon you are going to have to come to grips with the tiling :U.

Doog

[juan]

Hi Doogie,

I have been labouring for the plasterer and did all the mixing of the render. Mix ratio he told me to use was 10 parts plastering sand to 2.5 parts cement. Have finished the first render coat and used exactly 1.05 ton of plastering sand and 11 bags of cement. This was considerably more than he estimated and was probably due to the thickness applied to get the walls true.

Tomorrow he will do the skim or setting coat to the top metre of wall which will not be tiled but rather painted. He also plans to do the outside surround of the window to tidy up where we cut it into the 300mm thick sandstone wall.

Yes getting near to the dreaded floor tiling. Have decided to take the plumbers advice against installing the stainless steel floor channel grates as they are a problem to keep clean and odour free apparently and cost like you said an arm and a leg ($1000 to be precise).

My current thinking is that I will relocate the floor trap that is in the middle of the room nearest the bath to a spot near the wall between the bath hob and the toilet pan. I will then screed the floor on a flat plane but sloping diagonally from corner to corner (ie from the door down to the relocated floor trap). That way I will have a perfectly flat floor to tile on yet have a fall to the trap (farthest from the door)in case there is a flood situation. Shower will have its own 20mm set down.
HOW DOES THIS SOUND TILERS OUT THERE?

[patty]

Looking

[patty]

whoops what happened there (previous blog) havent been on the site for a while the Missus was starting to think I was having an internet affair! ????ing paranoid aint they!I thought I would check in and see how thing are goin lookin good mate just a quick question did you use any lime when mixing the render? and how thick did you have to puti it on? Did he trowel it on to start with then screed it off setting up batten on the brick wall in stages? Have fun!

[juan]

No lime just 4 parts good plastering sand to 1 part cement. Make it a bit sloppy. Wet the wall a bit and she sticks like sheet to a blanket. He started at the bottom of the wall and put a strip about 200mm wide horizontal along the wall at the lowest point. He then put another strip about 2m up the wall and used a long straight edge and level to get the strips set up. Real easy. He then had the guide and just filled in between the plaster strips. No battens. Apply with a steel trowel off the hawk.

Then leave a while to set a bit and just use the wooden straight edge to wipe it off to the same depth as the strips. He then went to the top of the wall and set another strip there off the half finished wall. Then continued filling in the top gap and level off with a straight edge. Then used a wood float to get a nice smooth floated finish but roughed it up a little so it would absorb moisture later when applying the skim/set coat.

I would say the plaster on the wall would be about 15mm average but varying beween say 5mm in a few spots to 25mm in other low spots.

The secret is get good sand and make the mix on the weak side. Biggest mistake for us DIYers is making it too strong. We think it is better with more cement but the opposite is the case. Apparently it causes crazing later. Use 4:1 or 5:1 mix.

I would have no qualms about rendering a whole room now after watching the expert in action for 3 days. I would not try the set coat with hard finish plaster though that looks a little more of an acquired skill.

STILL HOPING FOR SOME FEEDBACK FROM TILERS ON MY IDEA FOR THE FLAT TILTED FLOOR AS DISCUSSED IN COUPLE OF POSTS BACK.

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Cheers

[juan]

Hoping to pour the floor concrete on Friday. Have got the levels sorted and laid the fortecon film. Tomorrow I will put down the F62 reinforcing fabric and hopefully have a floor by the weekend.

Quite surprised how the room has dried out especially the bottoms of the walls that had rising damp. I have cleared the dampcourse all round and kept the window open. The soil has dried out a treat.
Moved one of the floor waste traps over between the bath hob and the toilet pan and will fall the floor to that waste outlet keeping it flat (but tilted). That should give a gumby DIY tiler like me a fighting chance of laying the floor tiles.

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cheers

[bricks]

Hoping to pour the floor concrete on Friday. Have got the levels sorted and laid the fortecon film. Tomorrow I will put down the F62 reinforcing fabric and hopefully have a floor by the weekend.

Quite surprised how the room has dried out especially the bottoms of the walls that had rising damp. I have cleared the dampcourse all round and kept the window open. The soil has dried out a treat.
Moved one of the floor waste traps over between the bath hob and the toilet pan and will fall the floor to that waste outlet keeping it flat (but tilted). That should give a gumby DIY tiler like me a fighting chance of laying the floor tiles.

57647

cheers


Who moved the floorwaste?, was it the plumber or you?

I'm hopeing that you did'nt just roll the top of the floorwaste over? The riser section must be straight up, and no longer than 600mm.

If the entire waste was moved, i'm hopeing the plumber did it with regard to the correct pipe lengths and falls etc.

If you did it, you'd better ring the plumber and get him to ok it.
A customer once did that exact same thing to me, I walked off the job that day.



If you m

[juan]

I do not touch things I do not understand. Done by the plumber at great expense

Cheers

[bricks]

As a plumber,

When i hear the words changed, plumber and great expense all in the same sentance it assures me that it was done properly.

By the way- that isn't an easy thing to do so im sure it would have cost a bit.

Cheers.

[wonderplumb]

As a plumber,

When i hear the words changed, plumber and great expense all in the same sentance it assures me that it was done properly.

By the way- that isn't an easy thing to do so im sure it would have cost a bit.

Cheers.

What he said:2tsup:

[juan]

With the 100mm reinforrced concrete floor poured my thoughts are turning to the hob for the bath. I was thinking it might be simpler to maybe build it out of Hebel blocks? We have decided on on a Stylus Classic 1700mm bath which is an island bath (oval shape).
Plumber has asked me to leave a big opening where he has to hook up the bath drain. Unsure whether it is best to tile the top of the hob before Plumber supports the bath in mud and connects it up??
Was thinking I could build a rear wall and two end walls of the hob to support the top. Then use hebel block on top and cut it out to shape of the bath so it can just drop in later. This would allow me to tile the top of the hob although not sure if that is possible given I cannot tile the front of the hob until bath is in and connected and front wall closed with hebel. I am not a tiler and think I have to cut the front edge tiles on the hob to 45 degrees to get a neat external join.
What is the recommended procedute to install an island bath in a brick hob? Any advice appreciated.

Cheers

[bricks]

Firstly have you thought of timber framing and villaboard? (would be much easier.)

Basically you need to......

-Build the framing (block or timber)
-Install the structure of the top
-Cut out hole for bath ( as small as posible)

My advice would be to use timber and villa board for the frame and top.

Install the bath.......
-Have it installed before you tile the hob, otherwise the tiling may be damaged ( baths are normally fairly heavy and awkward to manouver into bathrooms)
-Have the plumber install the bath with villaboard spacers under the lip of the bath, once it's done you can pull them out and slide your tiles underneath the bath to prevent unessesary detail cutting of tiles.
-Allow 10-15mm and leave room for a silicone seal, if the bath lip touches the tiles the silicone seal may break during temperature expansion and contraction due to hot water or seasons changing.

Enclose front of the hob.(block or villaboard.)
-you could, if using block construction, build all of the hob except for a 600mm-800mm section of the hob near the waste, this should allow the plumber enough access while providing strength for the top of the hob. (check with the plumber)

When tiling, use the corner dowel type tile edging on the edge of the hob to give a neat finish or make sure the top tiles extend the thickness of the front tiles to provide a clean factory made edge ( people will sit on the corner edge of the hob and you don't want cut bottoms)

----Just a note with round baths..........

-Make sure you leave at least a 100mm gap at any side ( otherwise you won't be able to clean there easily and the gap with hold soap scum and grime.)

-The lip of a round bath seems not to have the structural strength of a square one and tends to flex alot when you get in or out ( using the bath edge as support). To prevent this, use space invader foam under the lip ( get it in through the gap you leave to slide the tiles in) this will prevent flexing.
After you tile, you probably will seal the bath to the tiled top with silicone, if flexing occurs the silicone seal will quite quickly break and allow splash water into the bath hob.

-While making the hob be carefull not to allow it to have fall into any wall or corner, better to have forward fall to the floor in front ( splash water), but remember with tiles, anything out of level will show up like a big shiney neon sign.

As an after thought- have you thought about ventilation for under the bath? You need some sort of grill/hole to allow air circulation under the bath.

[juan]

Thanks a million for your help Bricks.

I have allowed exactly 100mm front and back of bath (between edge of bath and wall tile face and 125mm at the ends.
One of the end walls is a cavity wall which I built and I thought I would just knock a brick out of the wall inside the hob to access the cavity and give some sort of ventilation to the under hob area.

With everything being solid construction in the bathroom I just thought I would keep it that way and build the hob with blocks to give it a solid feel.

I will do like you suggest and put spacers along under the rim to facilitate sliding in the tiles later.
Like your idea of using space invader foam under the lip to give added support. Guess I would have to seal a bit between the bath side and the hob top to stop it all just exiting under the bath? Spoke to Stylus the bath manufacturer and they said flexing of the bath rim should not be a problem if the bath is properly seated in mortar bed and silicone sealed under the rim to the tiles.

Will take on board the issues you raised of having a level or slightly sloping tiled hob top and cleaning. Because it is not a shower bath I thought water spillage should be minimal but will of course occur when kids play in the bath.

Will investigate the corner dowel type tile edging (never heard of it as not a tiler) to get a professional finish on the bath hob front edge.

Cheers

[bricks]

If you have cut the hole in the hob tight enough ( within 20-30mm ) of the correct fit then the expanda foam will hold itself there - it doesn't weigh very much and doesnt normally drop of it's own wieght through smallish gaps.

And although venting through to the cavity is something i've not ever seen, I'm at a loss to think of a reason why you can't do it if it's an external wall???? ( think i've just learned something??):2tsup:

[juan]

Have not touched the hob yet as I thought it might be best to do the ceiling first. Finish from the top down approach.

Have an IXL Silhouette to install.

Has anyone ever put one of these in a suspended ceiling??

The suspended ceiling is 400mm below the old lath and plaster ceiling. I rang IXL and they said to get a length of metal flue 235mm in diameter and to install that directly above the outlet on the fan with a clearance of 50mm between the fan and the flue end. I have cut the hole in the old ceiling and installed the flue as directed.

I am a bit concerned about having a gap of 50mm above the fan inside the gap between the ceilings!! I would have been more comfortable if they had advised me to attach a bit of flexible duct between the flue and the fan outlet.

WHY DO THEY INSIST ON A 50mm GAP?? Is it to get air flow of stop vibration or something?

Cheers

[Dirty Doogie]

Hi Juan, I've installed several different types of IXL bathroom fans but not the silhouette. In every case the instructions that came with the fan said to attach the flue directly to fan exhuast housing.

Where are you venting the flue at the other end - outside wall or into ceiling cavity (which I would have thought was a no no anyway)?

One system I set up had an intermediatte fan mechanism as well as a primary fan - in that case the instructions said to leave a 50 mm gap between the flue and the second fan unit.

With that system the secondary fan was very powerful and would have shaken the flue around. As it was the secondary fan had rubber mounts and dampening to stop rattles in the ceiling.

I'm not sure why they would recommend the 50 mm gap between the primary fan unit though but maybe the silhouette has a powerful fan .

Doog

[juan]

Hi Doogie

It seems the silhouette has a more powerfull fan

[juan]

This is turning into one of the worlds slowest bathroom renovation projects. Have just got the ceiling up and the cornices on. Bit of tidying up and then I will look at the bath hob this week maybe.
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[pawnhead]

Nice cornices Juan.
They take a bit of time with a small tool to get the mitres just right, but they look great. :2tsup:

[juan]

Thanks. They came up ok.
Ended up using Gyprock Aquachek on the ceiling. Had a ceiling fixer give me a quote to install the gyprock Aquachek but when he arrived he said he would just use standard plasterboard and run the sheets parallel with the joists. This was not what had been agreed so I said I would do it myself. He was a little upset but such is life.
I put in some cross supports between the joists and did it that way. It was a lot easier.

[Dirty Doogie]

Hi Juan - yeh nice cornice ! A bit of gyprock sanding and your ready for Tiling :D. I bet you can't wait ! Lol

doog

[juan]

Yeah can't wait. It used to keep me awake at nights but now I do not worry about it - I am too preoccupied with a door jamb that is out of alignment and the damn bath hob.

I was going to build the hob out of hebel but after seeing the price of it I think I will use a pine frame and villaboard cladding.

[Dirty Doogie]

Hmm Juan almost 2 weeks and no update (have you been slacking LOL) ! We are into the frantic season - the lead up to xmas - tradies cant find time, stock sold out - showerscreens can't get installed - argh the joy! Hope same thing doesnt happen on your bathroom.

Doog

[juan]

Hi Doog,

Have decided to leave it as an unfinished project. HA HA
No, I have been working every hour god gave on the damn Federal Election and have had no time for the beast since 5/11. Will get back to the sucker next week.

Have started building the bath hob out of Hebel.

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Cheers

[pawnhead]

How are you going to bed the bath in now that you've enclosed all four sides. :?

[Dirty Doogie]

Working on the election ?????? I must use that one sometime LOL. I'm intrigued now.

[juan]

The 2 hebel blocks on the bottom right front are just levelled and supported on thin bed of sand and are easily removable. Once I finish putting all the other blocks in position with hebel adhesive and finishing the top 'cutout' it will be all solid and I will pull out those 2 blocks which are next to the waste pipe. I am thinking I may tile the walls behind and around the bath as well as the hebel top of the hob before plumber and I drop in the bath and connect with a flexidinger. Once the bath is in and set in mud then I will apply adhesive to the 2 blocks and set them back in position to close the hole so I can tile the front of the hob.

Does this sound like the way to go? I am learning to fly this sucker as I go.

[Dirty Doogie]

I havent installed an island bath - but I was under the impression that you had to put mortar under them when you set them for support. Some baths are self levelling / self supporting with plastic rubber bastings on the base.

[juan]

I have no affilliation to any candidate.

[juan]

Yes, I will put a couple of buckets of mortar under the bath before setting it in and connecting the flexidinger. Probably 1/3 fill it with water to keep it weighed down against the tiled top. Once satisfied all is ok then can close the opening at the front.

[Dirty Doogie]

Your plan sounds very feasible then and shouldn't cause any drama.

Hope you've ordered the shower screen if you want to finish for Xmas - I got caught today - cut off for pre xmas installation was yesterday GRRR!

[juan]

I have almost finished the hob ready to tile the top. Think I will do the hob in the crappy chocolate tiles the women chose for the floor. I will waterproof the hob top and surrounding wall, then tile just the top before dropping in the bath.
Will not be able to look at it until end of next week unfortunately as am flat out working at moment.
No rush as the young one is heading off on holiday for 6 weeks and we have the en-suite.
At least if fits very snuggly in the cut out hebel top and I am surprised how solid it seems even before bedding in mortar. Really strong rim on the bath to support and add stability.

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cheers

[Sugam]

Hi Juan,
Read your bathroom reno psts with interest. How does your bathroom look like now... any new pics???

May I ask what you did about waterproofing the bathroom floor and walls.
Thanks in Advance

[juan]

I have just got back onto the beast today and went and bought some tiles and waterproofing kit. Been working flat out and not had time to look at it.

Primed the walls and the hebel hob with an acrylic primer. Applied silicon to the wall joints and hebel hob to wall joints. Will water proof the hob, shower walls (down to about 150mm above the floor) and around where the vanity unit will mount tomorrow with 2 coats of DriBond Liquid Flash.

I have yet to screed the floor so will complete waterproofing the bottom of the shower wall and floor after the floor is screeded. My current plan is to tile the walls and the bath hob first(leaving the bottom row of tiles off of course) then screed the floor and tile it.

[juan]

Hi Sugam
Here is a photo just taken. I have just got back on the job again.

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I am not a tiler and what I know about waterproofing is dangerous.

As mentioned earlier, I have primed all the walls to be tiled and the bath hob top and side. That sealed the Hebel block hob quite nicely. I then applied a 1.2mm thick coat of DriBond Liquid Flash and while still liquid I embedded in it 200mm wide bond breaker tape allong the wall to hob joins. After a couple of hours I gave it another liberal coat of Liquid Flash waterproof membrane to completely cover the tape and ensure all the top surface of the hob is well waterproofed. I went up the wall 150mm with the waterproofing.

I will start tiling the top of the hob as soon as the waterproofing membrane cures (about 3 days I think). We are tiling the hob with the floor tiles. I can then put in the lower run of tiles on the end wall.

Am tossing up wether to take of the architrave around the window and router it a bit so the tiles cuts can hide under it. I have a little 75mm frieze to install on top of the existing tile height and then one full tile on top of that. Do not blame me for the colour scheme there are women involved in the decision making around here.

I bought a little tile saw from Bunnies for $86 and it seems to be the bees knees provided the diamond blade lasts. Gee I love tiling.

[juan]

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Only did about 2 hours today so only laid about 20 tiles. Gee it's fun.

Have been mixing small quantities (1kg) of adhesive by hand and it has small lumps in it which are a bugger to get rid of completely until I trowel the adhesive on the wall. Might try the mixmaster tomorrow.

[Dirty Doogie]

LOL Juan ! I would tend to do the router job on the window trims. That way you are left with the impression that the trim goes over the tiles and makes for a hidden tile edge.

Grouting is lots of fun too LOL.

[Dirty Doogie]

Re Glue mixing - go and buy a paddle mixer attachment for an electric drill - they cost about $12 - it makes it so easy to mix tile glue and grout. You'll need at least a 550 watt drill though.

[juan]

I mixed two 1kg batches today using the old kitchen mixer. Brilliant job - just like cake mix - smooth as a babies bottom.

[juan]

Well 5 hours on day 3 of the tiling and starting to see a dent in the wall tiling part.

Took Doogies advice and removed the architraves on the window and cut the tiles to go underneath. Just hope I can router it ok. Have an old router but have not used it for 20 years.

Unfortunately Beaumont Tiles is out temorarily of stock on the mosaics the women picked for the horizontal frieze so will be waiting probably until mid Jan to finish the walls at the earliest.

Fitted the heated towel rail just to see it would mount ok (it will eventually be on the door hinge side as I have to fit a new door and hang it from the other side). Drilled the tiles before putting them up. Cut holes for the underfloor heater controller and the power point for the towel rail.

The other side will be more complicated to tile with the WC, vanity, bath and shower mixers, hot and cold outlers, power, lights and temperature controller for the HWS. Also think I have stuffed up slightly with the height of the cold water outler for the WC so may have to cut the line and adjust the height(plumber will love me). Left the pipe exposed of render as anticipated it was not going to be right height. Damn hidden plumbing in close coupled suite is more trouble than it is worth.

Plan to mount a vertical vanity fluoro light fitting on either side of the vanity mirror so will just put 2 wall boxes in the render before tiling it to hold the fitting and terminate the cable. Then if I change my mind I can just tile over them and put a single fluoro above the mirror. Have already run the cables.

I may tile the top of the hob with the floor tiles before tiling the other 2 walls. After much deliberation and opinion collection I have decided not to bevel the tiles on the front edge of the hob nor to use a metal or plastic edge trim. I will sort through the tiles and find 10 tiles with the most overspray on the sides and just butt them up. The trims stand out like dogs appendages and every display I have seen with the bevel cut tiles looks like rougher than just butting them up.

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Cheers

[juan]

Well I have finally got back on the project again. Removed the door, removed all the 15 or so layers of paint with my metabo heat gun and some paint stripper. Surprised how easy it was. I filled the old hinge holes and latch holes in door and jamb with Fuller Building Filler (2 pack). It was 42degrees and it went off in about 1minute flat. Luckily I mixed only very small quantities and did one hole at a time. Great stuff to work with. I sanded the door lightly after filling the small dents and screw holes then painted the door with water based primer.
I then rehung the door on the opposite side or the jamb. It was quite a pain because the door jamb is about 6mm out of plumb and the top of the door jamb is about 8mm out of level in 820mm. The door had been cut previously to fit the dodgy opening. I had to do the same trick but it worked out fine. I set the bottom hinge in by 3mm and the top one out by 3mm to allow the door to line up nicely at the latch side. Once the architrave is on it will never be noticeable. Gave the outside of the bathroom door a light coat of some left over horrible pink paint just to disguise it a bit until we redecorate the whole house.

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I have tiled quite a bit of the wall . As shown in the photos, I have allowed for 2 x double GPOs (one on each side of the vanity unit), Wall mounted switching for the fan, and heat lamps. I have also prepared the mounting and wiring for the Rinnai 26 Plus remote temperature controller. There is wiring for 2 vertical fluoro lights to go on either side of the mirror. I collected the rest of the mosaic glass tiles for the frieze today so now hope to finish all the wall tiling tomorrow (bar the bottom run of tiles)

My plan is then to tile the bath hob top and fit the bath. I have been promising to do thehob for a month. Anyway slowly getting there.



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