Pool Paving

[ropina02]

Hi there,

I'd like to pave an area of about 25m2 which is next to our pool. Since I decided to do it myself (never done it before) I'm doing a little research.

Browsing through those postings was great and I read a lot about paving and more or less I think I know how to do it...but there are still some questions I have and was hoping that somebody would be able to give me some answers.

First this is how I want to do it:

Excavate 150mm
Using (Recycled) Road base 100mm
Compact Down to 75mm
Paving Sand 40mm
Pavers

Now here are my questions:
1. When using Road base there were suggestions in this forum to mix some cement into the RB before compacting. Is this necessary, what advantage/disadvantage does it have?
2. While compacting the RB, do I have to sprinkle water over it?
3. Similar question as 1. When using paving sand, is it beneficial to mix a little cement with it, i.e. preventing ants to dig up the paving sand?
4. In most manuals for DIY paving you will have to compact the pavers after you laid them. Doesn't that push the pavers further down so I would have to allow for it when I lay them?

That's all for the moment. Thanks in advance for any response.
Rob

[Planned LScape]

Hey mate

If the paving is adjoining the pool itself, I would suggest laying a concrete slab, pinning the slab to the pool walls and paving on mortar on top of that. If water from the pool is spilling over onto the paving, even on a compacted roadbase over time it will start to fall. Not much, but noticeable. The sand can get washed out also due to the water getting splashed around.

If it doesnt get much water from the pool you may be able to get away with it on a soil roadbase, I would have at least 100mm of roadbase, perhaps more if the excavation isnt hard. Lay it in 50mm layers and compact with some cement dust raked in and enough water to make the top look wet, otherwise the whacker will stick. The cement dust will help tie it all together better, make sure you get the best crushed rock the yard has. Paving on a 6:1 mortar mix would be harder wearing, followed by a grout in the joints, but you can still get a hard wearing and sustainanable pavement using sand.

Screed down 30mm of single washed or river sand, compact with the screed as you go. Lay your pavers either butt jointed or with a 3mm gap (depending on design) and sweep in either a silicon gap sand (which will seal better and stop ants) or use a triple washed sand and sweep in. I dont use cement in the sand as it creates hard/soft patches underneath, and over the top it stains the pavers if some is left behind. Then compact the pavers with some carpet under the plate.

Make sure all sides are retained by adding a concrete haunch or timber edging.

Hope it goes well!

[Kaiser Soze]

4. In most manuals for DIY paving you will have to compact the pavers after you laid them. Doesn't that push the pavers further down so I would have to allow for it when I lay them?

I will be doing some paving as well soon although not around a pool. Is the above question correct. Do I compact the pavers after they are down? And how much should I allow. I ask as I will be paving up to an existing slab and I want the pavers to be flush with the edge to prevent tripping etc.
Cheers

[ropina02]

Planned LScape
Thanks for your detailed description. The paving won't get much water from the pool, therefore i think i'm going to stick with the RB. i'll take your advice and will mix some concrete in between and defenitely doing the edges with timber. never heard of 'silicon gap sand'. could you explain how it exactly works?


Kaiser Soze
i assume that once you've laid the pavers and swept with the sand it won't move at all, but this is just an assumption...sorry can't help you there

Robert

[Burnsy]

If you have given the base three good runs with the compactor you will find that there is very little further settling when compacting over after paving. I also pave for money and have run a landscaping business for over 5 years, in the west we do it slightly different to you guys and we only use roadbase under paving on pavers requiring vehicular access.

I usually allow 5mm if paving up against a solid surface like concrete and sweep the jointing sand in before compacting over. You need to tie a piece of carpet to the base of the compactor first. Compacting over always helps get the sand nice and deep into the joints which in turn makes paving alot stronger, try getting a paver out afterwards and you will have to smash it out. We never pave over large format pavers (bigger than 350mm square) and usually steer clear of compacting any softer limestone base pavers as they can easily crack.

I have used the method described above with a concrete apron but would steer clear of this with a fiberglass pool. A concrete apron will eventually crack and subside over time if it is not on a solid sand base. new pools should be pencil compacted before any paving is done. This involves using a rod compactor similar to a concrete vibrator with plenty of water to make sure the sand fill is even all the way around the pool and there are no voids. You will be amazed how much sand can disappear doing this, I have seen over a 1 cubic metre of sand need to be added after a good pencil compactor operator has done a average sized pool over here.

I am of the belief that if you do the job properly on sand you will get minimal subsidence. If you do get a small amount it is very easy to pull up the two or three affected pavers and add a bucket full of sand to fix the problem after a couple of years, If a concrete apron starts to subside because of poor compaction or a void that was missed you are screwed.

Good luck with it.

[Bleedin Thumb]

Have to agree with PL on this.

Its not so much water that is the problem its just settlement of the backfill of the pool edge - and it will keep happening over several years. this means that no matter how well you compact you will still get settlement and your paver will end up being lower than your coping.

You can deal with this by-
1. Be willing to lift and relay after 2-3 years or
2. Lay a slab and pin it to the pools shell and pave on top.

If you go No.2 I would suggest a strong sand/cement bedding mix not mortar as its too hard to work unless your a real good tiler.

And yes it is a good idea to compact the pavers after laying - they go down from 4 to 7 mm depending on your bedding thickness and material. If you have soft pavers wire a bit of carpet under your compactor.

[Burnsy]

And yes it is a good idea to compact the pavers after laying - they go down from 4 to 7 mm depending on your bedding thickness and material. If you have soft pavers wire a bit of carpet under your compactor.

I would not compact any pavers without carpet under the machine. Compactor plates mark and damage pavers and the steel plate hitting directly against a paver is not good for you or the machine.

[Bleedin Thumb]

I would not compact any pavers without carpet under the machine. Compactor plates mark and damage pavers and the steel plate hitting directly against a paver is not good for you or the machine.


On most pavers 50mm thick or over you don't have a problem, the trick is to have plenty of dry beach sand between the plate and the paver.

Actualy I don't like to use carpet as it absorbs too much vibration and reduces the effect of the compactor - I only use it if I am using a thin paver that will crack or a high fired clay paver that tend to chip.

BTW Burnsy, I've been running my landscape business for 24 years, mostly large scale commercial.:p

[Planned LScape]

Yes I would allow 4-8mm compaction, that is, lay your pavers so that they are slightly above your finished level, so that after compacting they are the same level. I use a piece of carpet (the floormat out of my ute actually!) tied to the 4 corners of the compacter, I guess thick sand would work ok too but usually people do what they are taught with etc. I make sure I sweep in fine sand (best to be dry as possible as it keeps falling into voids) and leave a layer on top as well so that it gets vibrated in too.

As for the silicon sand, you can buy this from the garden yard, it comes in 20kg bags just like cement. You sweep it in just like you would the normal fine sand. It is fine chemically dried sand but has a silica element that goes off after a light hose, yet is still flexible enough to allow slight paver movement. Bit of info here http://www.cemaust.com.au/driver.asp?page=main/products+and+services/bagged+products/drymix+concrete+%26+diy+products (http://www.cemaust.com.au/driver.asp?page=main/products+and+services/bagged+products/drymix+concrete+%26+diy+products) but Melcann and Blue Circle have a similar product too. Try to get one that matches the colour of your pavers.

Good luck with it, take your time with the preparation, as that will determine how easy the paving is.

[ropina02]

Lay a slab and pin it to the pools shell a....

I'm not sure what you mean with 'pinning it to the pool shell. how is this going to be done?
Would that really be necessay as that area won't get much use. especially in winter it's not going to be used at all and in summer we're not not going to rock'n & roll on it:D

Maybe i'll try to get a photo of the area...

[gsouth]

What I think he meant was if you were going to pour a concrete slab to lay the pavers onto you should pin it to the pool concrete shell - you do this my drilling the reinforcing rods into the concrete shell and then pour the slab over it.
You have to be extremely careful with this as the shell of the pool will be rated to take only an apron of a certain width, anything wider than this you would need to pier it down to rock (I think it's about 1.2 metres). Just had our pool done and I spent a lot of time asking the engineer all sorts of questions about the concrete apron as I wanted a good base for our pavers.

Cheers
Geoff