Industrial Meths

[jes00m]

Morning All,

Fantatstic forum, I cant believe the amount of knowledge people are willing to impart.

I have just finished reading Neil's book cover to cover and cant wait to get started.

Can someone please advise where I can purchase Industrial Meths in Sydney Metro, also a place where I can purchase high quality brushes (natural Bristles)

Thanks

Jesmond

[Strungout]

Hi Jesmond,

I am not sure where you are,but Complete Hardware at Eastwood sells it.

Cheers

Greg

[TEEJAY]

I know this isn't any good to you Jes but if anyone does a search and finds this post and is after the same in Brisbane - I recommend Goods and Chattels at 20 Logan Road Woolongabba $7.50 for one litre - they rebottle the 20l containers. There is a paint place at Strathpine that also sells this stuff but only 20 litre containers $96

Welcome aboard Jes - hope you enjoyed the read - but don't forget the book is a constant reference not a read once novel type of book - I keep mine bedside and check things Friday night before weekend work then it follows me about the work area - today will be the same :wink: :) - shellac sanding sealer then a home made brew of coffee dye - wish me luck (don't want blotchy finish)

In a previous thread on IMS someone recommended you look up furniture restorers in your local yellow pages - that's how I found my supplier in Brisbane - you could do the same if you find Eastwood too far away. :wink:

Goodluck and don't forget to post pics of your work - we all learn from one another both from great experiences and some that don't work quite to plan.

[jes00m]

Thank you all, fortunately Eastwood is only 15mins away.

Thank You

[Strungout]

If you were heading there today, they are closed for stocktake.

Regards

Greg

[ozwinner]

I use a brand called "Diggers" dont know if you can get it there, but I havent had the water in meths issue with this brand, other brands seem to be 90% water. :o

Al :)

[Iain]

other brands seem to be 90% water. :o

Al :)

Very weak, but a boon for the dero's:D :D :D

[soundman]

just to liven up this thread.
I went looking for industrial meths the other day.

did the rounds of all the local paint suppliers

Bunnings . nup
solver.. nup
wattyl... nup
bristol.. nup
dulux... nup
luxury paints... nup

most of them didn't even know what it was.

I believe both diggers and recochem bottle it.

I'l try a few other suspects.
otherwise I'll have to go up to goods and chattels.

By the way is there any easy way to assess the water content in meths?

cheers

[martink]

If you were heading there today, they are closed for stocktake.

Regards

Greg

Bugger, I wish I had read this post earlier, headed over there yesterday and they were closed:doh: Good thing they are 5 mins walk away!

[Iain]

By the way is there any easy way to assess the water content in meths?

cheers

When we use the trangia stove the less water in the meths results in a higher soot deposit on the base of the pots.

My supplier told me that the 100% meths is supplied by Shell and the other 'names' just rebottle that product.

[RufflyRustic]

......
By the way is there any easy way to assess the water content in meths?

cheers


From another thread in the Finishing Forum, UBeaut posted this on 24 June 2007


To test metho for water content take out a little of the meths from the bottle and add a good dollop of mineral turps then shake (the bottle not you). If it stays crystal clear it is fine for shellac, if it goes cloudy (even a little) it contains more than a little water and really isn't suitable for shellac, if it goes milky it has way too much water and is probably only good for cleaning windows.

cheers
Wendy

[dai sensei]

I use a brand called "Diggers"

Even Diggers is only 96%

[Wizened of Oz]

Even Diggers is only 96%

Diggers also list 100IMS. Ask for it by that term. You probably won't find anybody stocking it but specialist paint stores can order it in. Nearly twice the price of 95IMS.

[Shedgirl]

Haymes paints company supply 100% under their own label. I had no luck getting it at hardwares, but found it in a home decorating shop.

[les88]

If you want to get rid of the water, why not use a 5 liter still that they sell in home brew shops alcohol boils at about 75 degrees. Stop collecting about 90 degrees.
les

[Alastair]

Hi Les

No can do,

At ~95%, alcohol forms an azeotrope, or constant boiling mixture, which is why the commercial product is that concentration. To get 100% requires special techniques.

[watson]

G'day les88,
Nope that's not gonna work.....sorry.
The stills they sell are pot stills and at best put out 80%.
The other deals are reflux stills for a lot more money, and their maximum output is 95%,
'cos unless you buggarise around with it....that's how ethanol exists.........purify it to 100%, and 10 minutes later its back at 95%. There's a scientific word for it which slips my mind at the moment.
Industrial meths is a different story.......what is added to the ethanol to make industrial methanol is not a water absorber.....(gotta remember that scientific word).
There's my $57:47 cents worth.

Stand by for incoming!!!!!

[watson]

That's the bloody word!!!!
Thanks Alastair

[Big Shed]

Had some experience making hooch had you Noel?

[watson]

No Fred,
My Mum taught me everything I know about Ethanol........78.5º Good.....68.5º Bad!!

[Glen]

I have just finished reading Neil's book cover to cover and cant wait to get started.


What is the title of Neil's book and where can I get a copy? Any help appreciated.:2tsup:

[watson]

G'day Glen,
Found here.
www.ubeaut.com.au/ubhome.htm
Its called the Polisher's Handbook.......beats the St James version hands down

[Glen]

G'day Glen,
Found here.
www.ubeaut.com.au/ubhome.htm (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/ubhome.htm)
Its called the Polisher's Handbook.......beats the St James version hands down

Bewdy, thanks for the info and the quickness of reply.:2tsup:

Glen

[soundman]

I just stuck my nose into my local resene paints trade depot the other day & had a look at the meths they had on their shelf under their own label.
It was 95% and and said so on the label.

cheers

[Mirboo]

I was in Carba-Tec Sydney the other day and noted that they had bottles of 100% metho. It was on the bottom shelf near where the U-beaut stuff is kept. Can't remember the price. From memory the bottle was probably about 1 litre. It was a fairly plain translucent white bottle with a plain looking label. Can't remember the brand.

[woodcutta]

Haymes distributors sell 100% Metho.

Otherwise pour it in an open container for a weeks. Tip out the water that is left and you'll be set :D :D

[Squirrel]

Hi Jesmond,

I am not sure where you are,but Complete Hardware at Eastwood sells it.

Cheers

Greg

Went to Complete Hardware today and asked if they had the 100% Meth, all they could show me was the 96% Diggers brand. Bloke said that was all they ever had.

Will give Carba-Tec ago tomorrow, this 100% Meth is like finding the Holy Grail....

Jesmond, did you eventually get the good stuff ???

Squirrel...

[Strungout]

That boofhead doesn't know what he is talking about. They do sell it.

Go to the paint section and ask them.I got some a few weeks ago.

Its in a 5 LT plastic bottle and has Industrial Metho on it- No brand name.

Its sitting on the shelf next to the shelac.

Cheers

Greg

[Squirrel]

That boofhead doesn't know what he is talking about. They do sell it.

Go to the paint section and ask them.I got some a few weeks ago.

Its in a 5 LT plastic bottle and has Industrial Metho on it- No brand name.

Its sitting on the shelf next to the shelac.

Cheers

Greg

Thanks Greg,
Must have been out, I know the shelf you are talking about, checked out the shelac also. The bloke that served me wasn't the usual sales man from that section, but I was with him when he gave the other bloke a call on the phone. I specifically asked for Industrial Meth and got the negative. I suppose all that read this forum bought them out. By the way not a bad little hardware for bits and pieces.

Squirrel..

[Zoinker]

G'day les88,
Nope that's not gonna work.....sorry.
The stills they sell are pot stills and at best put out 80%.
The other deals are reflux stills for a lot more money, and their maximum output is 95%,
'cos unless you buggarise around with it....that's how ethanol exists.........purify it to 100%, and 10 minutes later its back at 95%. There's a scientific word for it which slips my mind at the moment.
Industrial meths is a different story.......what is added to the ethanol to make industrial methanol is not a water absorber.....(gotta remember that scientific word).
There's my $57:47 cents worth.

Stand by for incoming!!!!!


Hygroscopic is the word your after. Where is a chemical engineer or brake mechanic when you need one

[Strungout]

Thanks Greg,
Must have been out, I know the shelf you are talking about, checked out the shelac also. The bloke that served me wasn't the usual sales man from that section, but I was with him when he gave the other bloke a call on the phone. I specifically asked for Industrial Meth and got the negative. I suppose all that read this forum bought them out. By the way not a bad little hardware for bits and pieces.

Squirrel..

No worries,

Great "original" hardware,they sell almost everything!

If you cant get the metho, let me know.

I am down that way a few times a week, and I will keep my eye open .I think they bottle it up them selves from bulk.

Bit cheaper than Carbi Tech.

Greg

[Wizened of Oz]

We do keep confusing the issue with talking of "Industrial meths". I can buy containers branded Industrial methylated spirits at every paint store, hardware and cleaning supplies in town. It's all 95%.
If you want the anhydrous (that is, no water) stuff you have to specify 100IMS.

[soundman]

I havn't even be able to locate anything labled 95% close to home lately.
It's all consumer grade metho...... is it 95%...... I don't know.

Anyway...... 100% IMS seems to be getting very hard to find these days.


cheers

[Wizened of Oz]

Anyway...... 100% IMS seems to be getting very hard to find these days.

cheers

I went to a local paint store and had them order it in. Had to take 20L which will last me to the end of my days.
I could bring some next time I'm in Brisbane.....which may be a month or so, I was there today.

[soundman]

I was thinking that getting a 100% IMS consortium together might be worthwhile.

split a 20 5 ways wouldnt be all that difficult.

cheers

[Wizened of Oz]

I was thinking that getting a 100% IMS consortium together might be worthwhile.

split a 20 5 ways wouldnt be all that difficult.

cheers

Okay. I'll bring my 20.

[Shedhand]

I get 100% IMS from my local 3D Paint Store. They have to order it in and I buy 6 X 1 litre bottles at a time. I store it in a cool, dark lockable cupboard. Find one in your area here http://www.3dpaintstore.com.au/home.html

[Wizened of Oz]

Sheddie,
You've jogged my memory. Yes, I was offered the option of 1L or 20L with no in between sizes. ISTR they quoted $12 for 1L so I opted for 20L at $108.

[Shedhand]

Sheddie,
You've jogged my memory. Yes, I was offered the option of 1L or 20L with no in between sizes. ISTR they quoted $12 for 1L so I opted for 20L at $108.Hmm. Its about 8 months ago but I think I only paid about 6 or 7 bucks for a 1 litre bottle from 3D

[soundman]

Ok brian well have speaks about this when I return from the north.

cheers

[jmk89]

I have discovered a supplier of 100% Meths in Brookvale (Sydney): Durobond (http://www.durobond.com.au/solvents_and_thinners.htm)

[astrid]

This is a pretty old thread,
but if you want the brushes for french polishing,
go to the chemist and get manicare make up brushes,
there very soft and fine and after soaking in meths to remove any loose hair, they dont disolve in alcohol.
they also come fitted withthis really neat pull up to keep it in shape.

astrid

[Shedhand]

This is a pretty old thread,
but if you want the brushes for french polishing,
go to the chemist and get manicare make up brushes,
there very soft and fine and after soaking in meths to remove any loose hair, they dont disolve in alcohol.
they also come fitted withthis really neat pull up to keep it in shape.

astridAhh the girls...don't you just love 'em...:wink: Good tip Astrid. Have a greenie.. :2tsup:

[astrid]

Thanks shedhand,
Make sure they are Manicare, thay come in different sizes too.
I have bought other brands but the hairs fell out:no:

Astrid:)

[jmk89]

This is a pretty old thread,
but if you want the brushes for french polishing,
go to the chemist and get manicare make up brushes,
there very soft and fine and after soaking in meths to remove any loose hair, they dont disolve in alcohol.
they also come fitted withthis really neat pull up to keep it in shape.

astrid

thanks for the tip Astrid, I have often wondered whether those brushes were any good.

Another tip on brushes is for use when you are using a liquid frequently but in small batches. In my case, this is often the case for blue layout fluid when I am doing metalwork or for thinners.

I decant the liquid into a small pill bottle, a Vegemite jar or whatever - pill bottles are good because of the childproof caps since I have a 4 yo and a 2 yo (ever noticed how many more of these pil;l bottles you get now that you are geting older?). I then choose a brush (for layout fluid I use one of the metal handles "disposibles") and drill a hole in the lid the right size for the handle and epoxy the lid to the handle at a height that keeps the bristles 3mm above the bottom of the bottle with the lid screwed down. In fact I have now done this with many of my brushes (even fine house paint brushes), because it makes it easier to keep them upright in thinners and not bend the bristles over!!!

BTW I added the source for IMS to this thread (and resurrected it, hence the title to my post "Ping") so that if someone searches for "Meth" they will get all the info concerning sources of IMS in Sydney in one spot rather than having several threads to read through. Not sure if that is the best etiquette, but I thought you might have been wondering why I did it that way rather than just start a new thread.

[Woodlee]

G'day les88,
Nope that's not gonna work.....sorry.
The stills they sell are pot stills and at best put out 80%.
The other deals are reflux stills for a lot more money, and their maximum output is 95%,
'cos unless you buggarise around with it....that's how ethanol exists.........purify it to 100%, and 10 minutes later its back at 95%. There's a scientific word for it which slips my mind at the moment.
Industrial meths is a different story.......what is added to the ethanol to make industrial methanol is not a water absorber.....(gotta remember that scientific word).
There's my $57:47 cents worth.

Stand by for incoming!!!!!



Hydroscopic ,I beleive is the word you are looking for.



OOPs should have read the whole posting ,someone beat me to it.

[Pusser]

I think it might all be a bit of a labelling con. The following IMS's both allow water (see under ingredients)

http://www.langridgecolours.com/pdf/100%25MethsMSDS.pdf
http://www.diggersaust.com.au/files/Methylated%20Spirits%20100.pdf

The 100% is specified at a particular atmosheric pressure and temperature under controlled conditions. It seems to me that regular metho could comply with these.

It might be best not to rely on the label but do Astrids test. Metho is hydroscopic and miscible in water. Anhydrous just means that at the testing time and under test conditions it did not contain any water (o.3% maximum according to BP specs http://www.distill.com/specs/BPChemicals5.html).

As soon as you open the bottle it will start to absorb water from the atmosphere. If you buy a big drum, as soon as you decant some and let air in it will absorb water from the atmoshere. You cannot change the properties of a hydroscopic fluid by adding something. Even if you could it would be no longer 100% meths. The MDS also state that it is completely miscible so it obviously absorbs water.

[MacS]

I agee, just my adding methonal alone, which is poisonious to the ethonol will denature it.

There are many other solvents that can be added to the ethyl alcohol to make it not fit to drink for human comsumtion, but still usable for other usuages in finishing. All ethyl alcohol is taxable that was the reason to denature the alcohol, so they would not loss the taxes on the drinking kinds..

Alcohol, does not remain on the pieces of furniture, because it evaporated, so it should not be taxable.

[jmk89]

... but do Astrids test. ...

I think you mean Wendy's - putting some meths in a bottle with turps and shaking....

[Sebastiaan56]

Since the thread has been ressurected.... I got 100% ethanol from a car detailing supplies place in Penrith. He also sells top end spray equipment and higher grades of wet and dry.

Great tip Astrid!

Sebastiaan

[Pusser]

I think you mean Wendy's - putting some meths in a bottle with turps and shaking....

Yes sorry for the mix up.

[ubeaut]

The best part about buying 100% IMS is that you are starting with virtually no water in the alcohol and the good stuff (what we use for our polishes) only has 0.05% denaturant so it is as close as possible to pure alcohol.

95% IMS is also acceptable in most instances, unmarked (no percentage) isn't acceptable as there is no law prohibiting the addition of water to the mix so long as the alcohol is still OP (Over Proof) which means it will burn if a flame is put to it. Metho will still burn with around 47% water in it. It won't dissolve shellac and if used to thin premixed polish will go cloudy and will bloom (look milky) on the surface.

As above: 100% IMS is basically water free - Yes it will absorb water from the atmosphere, but even if left unopened in a really humid area for a few week it wouldn't absorb all that much water to make it more than 95%..... The alcohol will evaporate off but still won't have that much water in it.

However, (and here's the weird part) the regulations here in OZ say that 95% can contain as much as 20% or more water, even 100% can have as much as 5%. It's all very confusing, but rest assured..... If you use 100% and you have good shellac it will always dissolve.

There's no guarantee of that with any of the other alcohols sold here in OZ. I have seen shellac go into a gluggy mess when mixed with one of the so called better brands of 95%, where the same shellac dissolved beautifully in 100% within 15 -20 minutes.

If your shellac hasn't dissolved within 30 minutes there is a bit of a problem if it hasn't dissolver within 1 hour throw it out and get some good metho or fresh shellac. There will always be a little sediment in the mix that needs to be strained out but that's ok. The bulk of it should be liquid within 30 minutes to an hour.

Cheers - Neil :)

[Pusser]

Thanks Neil,

It is more confusing when you look at the MDS's . The Langridge colours 100% meths allows up to 10% water while diggers allows up to 4.2%. These are specifiied by proportion not by volume or mass which allows for even more variability.

The European BP specification allows .5% water by mass whereas the % meths is by volume.

It leaves me to the conclusion that you need to test each batch - You could have 95% of one brand with less water than 100% of another brand!?