requesting PC help again [Archive]

jow104

16th June 2007, 02:25 AM

I got a new computer 3 months ago and lock ups have never stopped since the purchase.

PC/Windows xp/2. 3600amd dual/ 2gb ram/ nvida card. 350gb hard drive.

I have been systematically removing software over the past three months looking for a conflict.

It locks up a lot in O/E & I/E.

But it even locks up when I am having a snooze in the old armchair and no software is operating (at least on the screen).

Does that last comment mean anything to a PC garu?

By the way here is the reward to anyone solving the problem for me.

http://www.asvr14.dsl.pipex.com/CandleInTheWind2.mp3

.

mutanti

16th June 2007, 04:43 AM

Being a new computer i would most likley put heat out of the equation for now.
Try removing 1 of the sticks of ram,, and run for awhile.. if it dosent solve try removing the other one.. remove any pci cards . best way to try and solve it is process of elimination. if only so old then best to take it back to dealer to fix for you as per warranty if its been doing it since new,
I run my own business repairing computers and teaching as well. and usually find freezing caused by overheating. but being so new should not be the case.

Cheers

Freddy

woodbe

16th June 2007, 09:54 AM

Take it back..

Freddy is on the money. If it's locking up and it's new, you are probably running yourself ragged mucking around with software when in all likelihood it's a hardware problem...

Ianab

16th June 2007, 10:31 AM

I hate those ones
Because it simply locks up there is never any meaningfull error message, and running diagnostics doesn't help, because it locks up before it can tell you whats wrong :?

Over the years I think I've had almost every component in a PC cause that fault to. :((

Could be system board, ram, PSU or even a dodgy CPU.

Take it back and make it someone elses problem :wink:

Cheers

Ian

jow104

16th June 2007, 11:14 PM

Had another couple of lock ups within 20 minutes this morning and then thought about the thread reply from Mutanti, "unlikely to be dust being a new computer"

But I had a look at the external air intake grills and they were clogged with dust, so got one of my household paint brushes and cleaned the aperatures.
Since then I have run 4 hours without a lock up.

Spoken to the wife and she proclaims her innocents, (she as not been skimping on her duties:rolleyes: )

Perhaps its the electric static that attracts so much dust?

Anyway thanks to all, ( the private PC supplier came out of hospital last week so its just as well I didn't give him the problem to solve)

Ianab

17th June 2007, 12:25 PM

Some PC cases have pretty marginal airflow, the modern processor chips generate a LOT of heat, and need good airflow through the case to keep them cool.

The quick test for that is to pop the side cover off and run the PC like that. If it's fine like that then you can usually add another case fan to improve the cooling.

Cheers

Ian

Skew ChiDAMN!!

17th June 2007, 02:57 PM

Some PC cases have pretty marginal airflow, the modern processor chips generate a LOT of heat, and need good airflow through the case to keep them cool.

This is becoming more'n'more of a problem with new PC's; it won't be long and we'll be back to air-con'd 'puta rooms. :rolleyes: Especially with the latest generation of gfx cards, which can generate as much heat as the CPU and HDD's combined!

The quick test for that is to pop the side cover off and run the PC like that. If it's fine like that then you can usually add another case fan to improve the cooling.

I'll add one proviso to that: pop the side cover off and blow a fan (ordinary room job) into it. Simply removing the cover can introduce "dead-spots" in the air-flow which can actually exacerbate the problem instead of being a quick temp cure... I've personally fried a CPU beyond recovery that way. :(

Cliff Rogers

17th June 2007, 03:21 PM

What they said. :2tsup:
Particularly the bit about using a desk fan if you remove the cover to diagnose cooling problems.

Also could be something silly like a connection & simply removing the cover to give it a clean makes the fault disappear for a while.

It is what we call giving the computer a 'massage' or a 'technical touch up.' :wink:

jow104

17th June 2007, 06:17 PM

24 hours later so far so good.

The CPU temp. button on the task bar says 33c.

It has been over 37c.

jow104

19th June 2007, 05:48 PM

Skew ChiDAMN!!

19th June 2007, 06:08 PM

It's not necessarily your CPU that's over-heating. It is the primary heat-generator on the motherboard and as such has been designed to cope with a range of temps; the max temp a CPU can handle varies quite a bit... a P4 is about 75°C, an Athlon64 around 65-70°C, AthlonXP's up to around 80-90°C. These figures are the "it's cooked!" maximums. Intermittent failures like yours will happen at lower temps. :wink:

However, the same can't be said for most other chips on the mobo that may be physically close to the CPU. They may fail at a mere 30-40°C. RAM is another heat-sensitive item that can & does cause those symptoms at fairly low temps, in comparison to the CPU. This is why I mentioned "dead-spots in the air-flow" in a previous post.

If improved cooling fixes the problem, then something is overheating. Unless, of course, it was just loose/bad connection that you jiggled when taking the case apart... :innocent:

BTW, MemTest is a damned good utility and has a spot in my "tool-box." :wink: It checks for RAM defects, but you should ensure that the RAM is kept cool while testing for it to give reliable results. Otherwise if the problem is overheating, Memtest will report an error but the odds are pretty damned good that any replacement RAM will "fail" in exactly the same way when it gets cooked, too.

jow104

19th June 2007, 06:14 PM

Thanks again.
At least the problem is keeping my mind active:;

jow104

29th June 2007, 06:37 PM

Had a dell catalogue in the mail yesterday and looking through I see they now have PC's that come water cooled.

My pc is still playing up (the pc builder has just come out of hospital so haven't spoken with him at the present time) and my latest attempt is to move some gear off the computer table to let more air get at the PC casing and so far I have had 24 hours without lock up, so keeping my fingers crossed.

jow104

11th July 2007, 06:58 PM

wheelinround

11th July 2007, 07:14 PM

The forum members here at home dont think my cpu temp. is very high, they are telling me to look elsewhere. So I am going to run this tonight, but thought I would hear your comments.

http://hcidesign.com/memtest/download.html

.

Ok so after having cleaned out the dust you ran for 4 hours no worries HUM

How many fans have you got just the normal 2 I take it ???

and with UK's summer heat .........and flooding rains dust gets damp if you spit at it from down the road.
Does your graphics card have additional fan???

Don't blame the misses if you have carpet on the floor it stirs up dust whe you walk into the room if near a window it will suck it in.

Check amount of dust in main power supply it can cause over heating also.

It also could be that your power supply is under powered for all your add ons
ie:- scanner, web cam, USB devices many use power from the motherboard supply.

MrFixIt

11th July 2007, 07:35 PM

Took my PC round to the supplier Monday after having 4 lock ups in the space of 3 hours.

Got it back yesterday (Tuesday) and the chappy said he had done a full diagnostic test, over 4 hours, and found nothing wrong. He admits seeing reports of lockups on the report.
He continued to run the computer for another 12 hours without fault.
He says my mains electric supply is most probably not stable. I pointed out to the fellow that I had also run my wifes laptop during the period from the same connection and never had any lockups. The reply was" its got a battery and that evens out current"
BULLS**T and that's putting it mildly :doh:

Also advised that mine is a modern large capacity PC and is much more touchy on that sort of thing.
BULLS**T and that's putting it mildly :doh:

What advice can the forum offer me please.
The guy's an idiot!

Try another supplier for your next computer :roll:

My guess would be either the video card or MOST likely the video driver. Try running the pc at 640x480 (shudder :o ) for a while and see if it locks up. I expect it will work fine. If this is the case then you will need to obtain the latest video drivers for your video card (maybe a new video card itself).

Let me know how you get on :U

WillyInBris

11th July 2007, 07:55 PM

BULLS**T and that's putting it mildly :doh:
The guy's an idiot!

I second that, if he could see that it was locking up he shouldn't have sent it back I wouldn't.

One little question is it on a wireless network?

jow104

11th July 2007, 08:35 PM

I second that, if he could see that it was locking up he shouldn't have sent it back I wouldn't.

One little question is it on a wireless network?

No it is not on a wireless network.

I need to tread carefully, the gentleman most probably had a very nasty incident that put him in hospital and the doc. advises him not to work for the next two months.

So will switch to the 640 x480 and see what happens.

Bob38S

12th July 2007, 01:02 PM

3 months old????

Surely a warranty job or replacement would be in order.

munruben

12th July 2007, 03:44 PM

You may be running too much hardware for the power supply to handle. Run the computer with no hardware connected other than the Graphic card, keyboard and mouse.There maybe a hardware conflict. Check that there is air flow coming from the back of the power supply, you should feel a slight breeze coming from it. If you don't, then the power supply fan is not working. Check that your CPU fan and case fans are working. If the computer runs okay with minimum hardware connected, add one piece of hardware at a time until the problem pops up again. This method will pinpoint the hardware causing the problem if thats what it is.
Assuming the guy at the store is telling the truth and it ran okay without problem, run your computer in a different position, plenty of ventilation
I m surprised you had so much dust in your computer in just 3 months. you must be in a very dusty environment.
There are a few things that cause this problem, some mentioned here in this thread but is difficult to diagnose without physically inspecting and testing the computer.
Make sure your RAM is seated firmly in its slots.
Most likely cause is usually overheating but not always. It can range from a faulty power switch to a faulty motherboard, such as a solder joint expanding when hot and breaking contact.

wheelinround

12th July 2007, 05:46 PM

I have come across one other thing it could be but most unlikley
This can happen when the motherboard is mounted...when memory is pressed in.....when additional cards are put into place it can flex and cause a break either in the board.

When the machine is getting hot the motherboard expands and contracts it may have a hairline crack so tiny it cant be seen.
Testing is the only way and still not positive s replicating the heat is difficult with everything open and test equipment attached its costly also.

good luck

I fitted an extra large fan and opened the holes up many are just small which clog fast both suck and blow fans.

jow104

12th July 2007, 05:50 PM

Sincere thanks for all responses to my troubles.
The computer man did do something whilst he had the PC because it is now 48 hours and I haven't had a lock up.
I suppose it could have been dust and he cleaned it out when he had the PC back. The air intakes are continually being cleaned by me and at the present moment I am hearing a powerful fan going which I have not heard before, SO perhaps he did a few things.
I will post one of my rewards later in the day.

Thanks again.

jow104

12th July 2007, 07:04 PM

Rewards, take your pick.

http://ee.domaindlx.com/layne/page5.html

jow104

12th July 2007, 11:38 PM

Since the return of my PC I cannot locate my cpu temperature icon, it used to be on the tool bar at bottom r/h corner next to the clock.
I would like to see cpu temp. since the return of my PC, does anyone know how to obtain?

jow104

20th July 2007, 05:48 PM

Over 10 days without any lock ups on my pc.:2tsup:
They must have put in a larger fan, I can hear the fan blowing which was not in evidence before.l

However I have had The following message come up at boot up a few times now.

"A hyper transport sync flood error occurred on last boot . Press F1 to resume."

Ok pressing F1 does recover the windows start up, but why does this happen?

munruben

20th July 2007, 10:07 PM

Can you do a restore to a date when this wasn't happening?

jow104

20th July 2007, 11:27 PM

Thanks John, that sounds a good idea.
Although I dont want to go behind the return of the pc from last Tuesday.

What is a hyper transport sync flood?

Skew ChiDAMN!!

20th July 2007, 11:53 PM

HyperTransport is a high-speed interconnection between integrated circuits. (Originally called "Lightning Data Transport" when developed by AMD and others.) The HyperTransport I/O Link Specification defines a protocol and electrical interface between the CPU, memory and peripheral devices. (ref: http://www.techweb.com/encyclopedia/defineterm.jhtml?term=HyperTransport)

The BIOS error you're getting is usually due to either a CRC or link error on one of the HyperTransport Links, or a system or parity error on a PCI bus. Basically, it's a HW error message that survives a system reset. I hope you can sorta make sense of what I'm saying? :?

FWIW, the only time I've come across it is when the CPU's have been overclocked and even then 'twas a thermal problem. ie. overheating. However, it has also apparently been a problem with certain motherboards with ASUS M2N-MX BIOS's and the cure was simple: downloading the latest drivers.

jow104

21st July 2007, 12:15 AM

Thanks above,
Motherboard I have got something called msi live monitor update but it had me backing down the last time I used it, it started mentionong BIOS and those sorts of things. I will study the help and let you know how I get on.

jow104

23rd July 2007, 06:39 PM

Motherboard.

I did that msi update and I'm in trouble again:B

It wanted to do 8 updates. So I tried one a couple of days ago the REaltek driver (sounds) and after installing I got no sound:doh:
So did a system restore (after looking around in sounds and divices control panel) and got back to my sound that way.

Plucked up courage and went back this time and tried update again, this time a BIOS update:no: and asked it to install as before, I should not have done that because each time I now boot up I get the screen up CMOS, BIOS etc. wanting me to make decisions I know nothing about. Ive tried load safe defaults etc. and one or two of the other inocculous sounding entries and eventually I exit without saving.
But of course when I boot up I ;get directed each time to this page and have to do the same again.
System restore doesnt help this time.

Help Help Help, please.

PS when trying to boot up MSI dialogue appears.
and shows.
A drive error
CMOS Checksum BAD
press F1 to run set up (this works)
press F2 to load default values and continue, (this doesnt work) but alot of my F numbers dont work, should I st that up some how first?

OK found my keyboard setup and my F2 is set as undo, but I cannot see what to change it to on the setup list. Would open be the best selection?

Skew ChiDAMN!!

23rd July 2007, 09:05 PM

Oh dear... a BIOS update's not something to be undertaken lightly, because it usually involves flashing a ROM and if it fails it can leave your 'puta totally unusable. It is one of those updates that should have Big Flashing Orange Warning Signs posted all over the screen and instead of a "Proceed" button should have a "Well, Punk. Are you feeling lucky?" one instead. :rolleyes:

Fortunately, it sounds like it went OK; ideally it shouldn't be asking you to reset the data but it sounds like 'twas probably a poorly written piece of code that did the update, so I'm not surprised.

If you go into SetUp then exit without saving, the computer works alright? OK, next time you reboot, go into SetUp and then straight to "Save Changes & Exit" without making any changes. That should set current values as "default" and stop you from being prompted every time you reboot. There are probably a few changes that could be made to improve overall performance, but the default values should be good enough to get it up'n'running in a stable manner. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that it works. It should but if sounds like your PC has been colonised by gremlins... :wink:

BTW, I wouldn't bother remapping your F2 key as the SW that handles that is started with Windows... but the BIOS is accessed before Windows is even thinking of starting (think of the BIOS/CMOS as the starter-motor) so the remapping hasn't kicked in yet. It's odd that F2 doesn't work to accept the default value, because it should and there's nothing you or I can do to affect it!

Edit: Sorry, just noticed that you said you're getting a "CMOS Checksum BAD" error. That'll be why the F2 key isn't working. :- OK, doing the "Save & Exit" should still fix it but if it doesn't and you're still prompted at the next boot, try selecting either "load safe defaults" or "load optimal defaults" (if you have such a choice) and then "save changes & exit"

jow104

23rd July 2007, 09:16 PM

Thanks Skew,

If you dont see me again its been nice knowing you lot. :U

jow104

23rd July 2007, 09:30 PM

Skew.

Well I survived but only just.

The only choice that was the same as your option suggested was
"Save and Exit Set up"

So I did that..
When I now boot up I get the MSI dialogue again and this time at the bottom is

A driver error.
press F1 to Resume.
Which fortunately works but its left me with a long winded start up.
Fancy a trip over here or can you give any further written help:;

Skew ChiDAMN!!

23rd July 2007, 09:55 PM

I'll start paddling now. If I'm not there in... oh... 5 years, alert the coast-guard for me, eh? :wink:

A driver error, eh? That's all the info it gives? Are all your hard- & optical drives accessible? Once Windows boots, if you go into the Device Manager, are (m)any items flagged with a yellow exclamation point?

jow104

23rd July 2007, 10:26 PM

Nothing is flagged. opened each item in device manager.

edit
I went back into device manager and opened and everything is flagged working properly.
but in the System Devices there are a lot of items that state no drivers are installed for this device, however when looking at the drivers tab there are microsoft drivers mentioned. One significant is motherboard resources as such.Any comment?

Skew ChiDAMN!!

24th July 2007, 02:17 AM

First things first... no more errors re the Hypertransport sync flood? [fingers xed]

OK... nothing is flagged? Hmmm... I assume that you've checked that all the devices/peripherals you have plugged in are working? They may not show up in Device Mgr - if a device suddenly isn't detected at the BIOS level WinXP/Vista tends to auto-remove 'em from the list. :~ (This is an area where W98SE & Win2K were better, IMHO.)

Now I'd rather be in your seat, as my next step would be to look through the BIOS settings to see just what's enabled and what's not. It's possible (not probable, but possible :rolleyes: ) that something has become enabled although you don't physically have the hardware, eg. an on-board modem or RAID.

I'd also like to dig around in your system logs and see if any services/hardware have changed to different drivers, as it's possible that your mobo has "lost" some newer functions (maybe thru HW failure or a bad BIOS update) but Windows is smart enough to use older alternatives. eg. you may've lost USB2.0 but things'll still work using USB1.0 protocols. To be honest, that example isn't really accurate, but it gives you the idea without the technobabble. This is even less likely, but it happens. :shrug:

Ain't computers fun? :doh:

jow104

24th July 2007, 03:27 AM

Skew
First things first... no more errors re the Hypertransport sync flood? [fingers xed]
correct no more at the moment since I did that nasty update.

Will go an investigate BIOS next and let you know what I dig up.

BIOS is a nasty word, I was instructed in my early computer days not to go there. I suppose I must try and be a big boy now.

Thanks for staying the course with me. :2tsup: