Has anyone...

[Yonnee]

... tiled a deck?

I'm in the middle of a deck and pergola area and have been thinking about using tiles rather than decking boards. I'd like some opinions as to pro's and con's.

Some of the Pro's I've thought of:
- Little or no maintenance.
- Easy to clean, particularly with a dog's muddy feet.
- No grease stains from BBQ splatter.
- Don't need to worry about "in-ground" ratings for decking boards.


Some of my problems still yet to solve::question:
- What timber I should use under the tiles - Structafloor? (Yellow tongue)
Or Marine ply?
I will be putting cement sheet under the tiles but I'm just concerned as to the strength of the material under this. The last thing I need is for the floor to flex and start cracking the tiles and/or grout.
- Should I put some drain holes every square metre or so as the deck is flat?
- How to finish the edge at the outer two sides?

Anything else I can think of I'll ask as I go.

Cheers,

Yonnee.

[Dusty]

Here is a link (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=47598)to some pics I put up with a partly tiled and partly timber deck.

The question is " How do we build the sub-floor to accommodate the tiles"?

I'm not too sure as all the tiled part of this decking was made before I got to see it. And I didn't think to have squizz underneath to see how it was all done:- :~ :doh:

I think it's a project worth considering as it can look pretty special.....Done right.

[ian]

I'm in the middle of a deck and pergola area and have been thinking about using tiles rather than decking boards. I'd like some opinions as to pro's and con's.

Some of my problems still yet to solve:
- What timber I should use under the tiles - Structafloor? (Yellow tongue)
Or Marine ply?
I will be putting cement sheet under the tiles but I'm just concerned as to the strength of the material under this. The last thing I need is for the floor to flex and start cracking the tiles and/or grout.I'd skip the structafloor or marine play and use 18mm cement sheet. It's stiff enough that you can tile straight on top of it.
If you have residual worries with movement use a flexible grout bed.

- Should I put some drain holes every square metre or so as the deck is flat?you or your tiler should be able to grade the grout bed so that water runs to the edges. If the area is too large install some lateral drains every 5m or so and grade to these.
- How to finish the edge at the outer two sides?I'd treat the edge the same as the edge of a tiled step.


hope this helps


ian

[Vernonv]

Many years ago I helped a guy do a deck that was to be tiled and he used a thick fibre cement sheet (maybe 12 or 16mm thick - maybe more) straight over the joists. This sheet acted as the structural "floor" as well as a suitable substrate for laying tiles.

Sorry, but I'm not sure what the product was called.

[Yonnee]

That looks awesome Dusty, thanks for that.

Problem is... now you've opened up a whole new world of possibilities and options. I'd never thought of combining both timber and tiles/pavers, now this deck will never get finished!!!

But seriously, I want the "Wow" factor.. just wait till I show the minister for Domestic Affairs.

[billbeee]

Yonnee,
I've done a couple of fairly big ones much like Ian says.

From memory 16mm compressed cement sheet, fixed just like Hardies recommend for bathroom floors. Plenty screws and I even think we used that Hardy epoxy on the sheet joints of one of them.

Main thing I see on tiles and timber is stiffening it all up. So I put rows of noggins (same material as joist) in say every 1200. (along joint lines) This really helps to take the spring out of it.

I built from scratch with tiles in mind, so put a fall on the joists. Try to do that if you can. Can you pack the high end up 20mm?

Run the sheets and the tiles 25mm over at the edge to create a drip.

One very tricky point that I never really found a good answer to was flashing the joint against the house wall. I think we used Sikaflex PU Mastic as a 5mm expansion type joint between the wall cladding and the tile, but I never got back to see how good it was.

Pros- lower maintenance than timber. Both times I did it they were high level and the owner made a room underneath, so it was a roof and deck.

Cons- A lot more expensive than timber.

Cheers
Bill.

[Yonnee]

Thanks for all the replies guys, this is great.

I'm not so much worried about the expense as it's been 2 years in the planning/design and 9 months in the making so far, and we don't plan on moving for a long time.

[strangerep]

Reluctant though I am to offer constructional advice, I'll tell you some
of the problems of which I have direct personal experience...

I have a tiled balcony over a garage. It's supported by timber joists,
with CFC sheet laid on top, and some sort of flexible sealer in the
joints. Tape was put down across the joints, then a waterproof
membrane, then the tiles.

Within 15-20 yrs it turned out to be a sad disappointment. Expansion
inevitably creates hairline cracks between tiles and grout, the water
proofing "solutions" underneath eventually break down, and water
eventually starts coming through. I'm sure everything was fine for
many years after construction, but here I am 25 yrs later and it's no
good. Every so often I have go over the grout with turps (to clean it)
and then work sikaflex sealer along it with my finger to seal the
hairline cracks. This has only been a partial solution at best. And now,
because the original builder used oregon joists (low durability) because
they were supposedly undercover, I begin to worry about them.
I've had a professional re-waterproofing guy come in, but his treatment
was only good for a few months before further expansion and movement
defeated it. Even though he gave a 12-year warranty, it was near-worthless
because he won't come back voluntarily.

As BuilderBill said, the main problem is stiffening it all up, and
eliminating relative movement. There is one CFC joint line which seems
to be along the top of a joist (i.e: there shouldn't be any relative movement
between the sheets), and yet water persistently comes through.

However, my nextdoor neighbours are currently doing major
renovations, including exterior balconies. They've heard me complain
often about my problems, and they got some advice from a retired
builder consultant. His advice was as follows: use exterior-grade
tongue-and-groove ply (or maybe marine-grade, though someone
told me it was actually the same stuff). Run a line of sikaflex adhesive
down the groove as you join the sheets. Also run a line of sikaflex along
the joist tops and use plenty of screws (with a small dollop of sikaflex
down each pre-drilled screw hole to seal it). He reckoned that strategy
will eliminate movement between ply and joist. Naturally, if there are
any joins that run between joists (not along them), you'll have to put in
some extra nogging, as others said. Then you need to apply a latex membrane
over the top (several coats). Personally, I'd like to seal both sides and all
exposed edges of the ply before installation. The tiles then go on top, and
need to overhang a little at the sides. On undersides of the overhanging ply,
they're going to affix some angle aluminium upside down with screws and
a line of sikaflex, so that water will drip clear, with no chance of wicking
backwards underneath to affect the joists and facia boards. Near the house,
I notice they've put some 50x50 angle plastic, sikaflexed to the top of the
membraned-ply and the side of the house wallframe. I presume the exterior
wall cladding will eventually come down over the top of the plastic to hide it,
and the tiles will go over the top, but they haven't got that far yet.

As far as I can tell, such a technique would address all the problems I've
experienced. I guess we'll find out for sure several decades later.

- strangerep.

[UteMad]

We tend to do very few cause to do them right puts us out of the market place unless the customer has had prior dealing and is willing to pay the difference...

*The joists should be upsized atleast 1 size over what you would use for decking boards or if not reduce centres

*You should use either treated joists or a product that is suited to exterior use not OREGON junk

*We generally use 15mm cfc sheet glued to the joists with sikaflex

*sikaflex between all sheet joints

*All joints over joists

*Screw all sheets down

*Sika flex over all screws and again over all joints

*Sika flex an angle over the end of the sheet to stop water tracking under

*waterproof whole area and bandage over all joints

Then do your tiles or pavers by either bedding floor for falls or inbuilding a runoff into the structure

This is not to say you can't still have problems but it goes along way to limiting them

If you tile buy quality flexable glue and flexable grout cause any joisted structure will have some flex


Hope this helps

cheers utemad