sealing the ends

[S Hayward]

Hi all
Here's a little problem. Is there a suitable end sealer that can be put onto a table top that is cut so size etc but will allow for a range finishes to be applied over? Most things I have come across are either compatible with either oils or laquers but not both. Mobil Cer-m is good for oversize tops but not so good for ones cut to size. any help on this one would be appreciated.
Cheers
Shaun

[Shane Watson]

Hi Shaun,

Hows things going down there mate? Smoothly I hope http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

Mirotone has a product that they say is an excellent sealer ( not a sanding sealer though ). 802 i think is the product number. But I am figuring you mean like an end sealer that is used while the timber is drying? in which case I doubt that the 802 would be anygood. It was designed to seal in the waxes that are contained in MDF. Although from my experience some of mirotones top coats dont stick to that sealer very well. A lot of delamination has happened when I've used the 802. But they may have changed the formula. . It worked well but never really sanded all that well....

Anyway.. Someone else might not ramble as much as me and actually tell you what you want to hear http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif

Cheers



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Shane Watson..

Combine Love & Skill & You Can Expect A Masterpiece!

[ubeaut]

G'day Shaun

Dussek Campbell have a new end grain sealer on the market that was designed in conjunction with the Wood collectors Assoc and others. It is supposed to be the answer to all end grain sealing problems. http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif

However I think you will find that no one has an end grain sealer designed to have a finish applied directly to it. It is my understanding that they were all designed (with the exception of the new one) for use as wound sealer for trees after pruning and for use in the logging industry but primarily for orchards.

I take it (as Shane said) that the sealer you want is to be used to assist in the drying of the timber, not to seal the end grain like a sanding sealer prior to finishing.

My suggestion (if you really must leave the sealer on) is to try a coat of shellac over the top prior to applying your final finish. Shellac has the ability of being able to stick to almost anything. However my best suggestion would be to get rid of the sealer and apply the finish to the raw timber.

Just a thought: If you need to seal the end grain that would suggest to me that the timber is green. In that case it seems senseless to cut the timber to size as it is going to shrink in drying, leaving you with an undersized piece anyway. If that is the case why not just cut off 1mm from each of the ends to get rid of the sealer. This would also make sanding of the end grain possible as I doubt it would be with the sealed still on.

THE END .... almost.

And Shane thought he was rambling....... Strewth!! http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/wink.gif

Hope this helps.

Cheers - Neil http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

For more info and local distributor ph
Dussek Campbell - 03 9368 0011 ask for Rex Armstrong tell him Neil from U-Beaut Polishes sent you and he will help. He is Market Devalopment Manager but he also had something to do with the developement of the product.

THE END....... DEFINITELY THE END http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit.

[S Hayward]

G'day Neil
Thanks for the ramble. To clarify what I am up to. No, the timber is not green. We are talking about tops in particular that are constructed from mostly KD hardwoods at around 10 - 12% MC. Problem is, these tops could then go to God knows where for the joiner or whoever my customer may be to finish off and turn into a masterpiece he / she can call their own. The EMC ( equilibrium moisture content for those who don't know ) is often different at their place. In fact it changes regularly in my part of the world from quite humid to very dry. As I read recently, timber drys up to fifty times faster on the ends than it does in the middle and drying equates to shrinkage, even when the timber is "dry". Once a board gets below 30% MC I think is the magic figure it will expand or contract as its MC changes. Anyway, you would have all seen end checking on boards that have dried too rapidly and a quick look in my timber store will show you that when you get hit with a dry spell, as I am being hit with now, your boards will start to dry out. If the ends are left untreated the boards will definately start to shrink if the EMC wants to come down and this can either crack boards or stress glue lines.
What I really need is a product that can be applied to an end that is almost finished ( sanded ) and can then be coated with either a laquer or an oil or whatever else takes the customers fancy. If I was finishing the tops it wouldn't be such a problem because I could use something compatible with the final coating. I thought of Shellac but understand it doesn't "seal" all that much. Is this correct Poo Bah ? Currently I am using Cer-M on anything oversize and a bit of clear tape on the tops cut to size. I wanted something a little better if possible. There you have it. Thanks for the advice so far. I will have a look at the new stuff you mention Neil and see if I can put it to use.
Cherio
Shaun

[ubeaut]

Shellac. Definitely shellac. At least that is where I would be starting. It truely is pretty amazing stuff. As for not sealing all that much. It has been used as a sealer for everything from tablets and fruit to paint brushes & electrical wiring.

Cheers - Neil

[Shane Watson]

Gotta agree with Neil especially if you want a 'universal' sealer/base. Shellac is the way to go. Cheap too. http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif
But as always - look into your options. That 802 I mentioned may just be what your looking for.... Check it out....

Cheers.



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Shane Watson..

Combine Love & Skill & You Can Expect A Masterpiece!

[S Hayward]

Doorstop
We have used a plastic cover but the first thing the customer does is rip it off to have a peek then two weeks later they get around to polishing. In that time the damage may well and truly be done. I'm looking for the fool proof system that only a fool will stuff up !!
Thanks for all the info guys.
Happy finishing.
Shaun

[RETIRED]

Is there such a thing? Fool proof I mean, plenty of others around. http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/wink.gif

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Ian () Robertson
"We do good turns every day"

[Mal]

Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool!

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Luv
Mal

[Iain]

Or............make something foolproof and only a fool will use it (Murphy)

[S Hayward]

I wondered how long it would take to get this topic digressing. Fools now it is!! We used to have Murphy's Laws on a poster in the workshop. Every one of them applied at some time it seemed.
Neil, I dropped in to Southern Woodturning Supplies, my local stockist of U-Beaut Shellac, and picked up a kilo. Will see if that does the trick.
Bye all.
Shaun