Walls -what are they made of?

[barbz]

Hi All,

New to the renovation scene.

How do you tell what your walls are made from?

http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~barbz/house.jpg

Hoping its not asbestos.

Cheers
Paul

[Ianab]

If you unscrew the cover of a lightswitch or power point (carefully) then you can get a better idea of what the wall lining is by looking at the cut edges around the hole. Probably hardboard of some sort judging by the trim over the joins?

Very unlikely interior walls are asbestos based, they usually used something cheaper :wink: :D

What are you planning to do in there??

Cheers

Ian

[barbz]

Not sure yet, just checking up for the first part.

Will check out behind the light switches.

Cheers
Paul

[journeyman Mick]

Judging by the looks and your location it's entirely possible that the lining is asbestos cement sheeting. Sorry, best to get it checked out.

Mick

[bitingmidge]

Very unlikely interior walls are asbestos based, they usually used something cheaper :wink: :D

Ian, I know it was a joke, but as Mick says, it is VERY likely given the style of battened lining, that it is asbestos cement, so this is one joke which could backfire! :oo:

If it is, it's not a problem while it's painted and no-one's drilling into it, but get it checked and decide how to handle any renovations.

cheers,

P
:D :D :D

[Honorary Bloke]

Judging by the looks and your location it's entirely possible that the lining is asbestos cement sheeting. Sorry, best to get it checked out.

Mick


but as Mick says, it is VERY likely given the style of battened lining, that it is asbestos cement, so this is one joke which could backfire!

All quite sensible advice, but as a matter of curiosity, how late was asbestos still in use in OZ? That room looks rather newish (though it may just be the camera). And is the telltale sign the way the sheets are battened at the joins? :?

[bitingmidge]

Bob,

Blue asbestos was not banned until the mid 1980's and white in the early 2000's :oo: and both were used extensively up to those times.

Do new camera's make buildings look new? :D :D

There's a bit to be gleaned from the picture which dates the room with a reasonable degree of accuracy, even though it's been renovated.

Firstly it's height. Ten foot ceilings (or more were pretty much standard fare until the mid to late 50's and sometime in the mid 60's someone discovered that the building by-laws had a minimum height of 8 feet, and that became the norm, so it's been built before the late 50's and probably renovated at least twice since then.

The height of the skirting confirms this, unless of course the renovator had an eye for detail and tricked us!. The bay window means invariably that this is the front room of the house, although the brass fittings are probably not standard. The glazing pattern is typical of the late 40's-50's cottage, but could be a new copy.

"Fibrolite" or "Fibro" became the ubiquitous term for Asbestos Cement Sheet, and even today the newer forms of Fibre Cement are referred to as "Fibro". The sheeting was nail fixed with clouts with exposed heads, and the technology didn't exist to set the joints, so battening was used over them, often in patterns (particularly in ceilings) to cover the joins. Sometimes particularly externally even the battens were made of fibro.

In the photo, the sheets have been layed horizontally, three footers top and bottom and a four footer in the middle, which leaves horizontal battens more or less at picture rail and chair rail height.

Sometimes in post-war Queensland, a mix of fibro, timber and (rarely) light ply was used, but typically new houses had either walls sheeted with set plaster or the more economical Fibro.

Post war houses were typically quite small, so many (most?) had verandahs converted to "sleep outs" typically with Fibro sheeted partitions, and louvres also of fibro.

Now of course to confuse people even more (and to learn new words from the builder's cursing architects! :p ), I have been known (in my former life on the drawing board) to incorporate the typical batten patterns simply stuck over gypsum plaster. There's no certainty from a photo such as this, I mean this may be one of my old jobs! :- , but it pays to be careful.

Cheers,

P

[Barry_White]

One other thing it could be seeing you are in Brisbane and that is old fibrous plaster sheet which was used extensivly in houses of simalar vintage. Some of the old plaster works used to mould sheets of plaster on large moulding tables and they just used to cover the joints with cover moulds.

With the old so called fibrolite used to have a very fine grid pattern in the surface which should be visible.

[barbz]

So can anyone recommend anyone in Brisbane to test a sample for me?

If it is asbestos apart from making sure its sealed, what else do I need to look out for? Does it limit what electricians etc can or will do?

Lastly - would the mounting of the air conditioner make any difference in saying if they are asbestos or it doesn't matter?

Thanks
Paul

[barbz]

Well ive got a bit of asbestos cement sheeting, bit of T&G and some masonite walls.

Spent the weekend painting inside all the cupboard which were un coated cement sheets.

Will this effect work that electricians and the like will do? or they just need to be made aware?
Cheers
Paul

[null & void]

Will this effect work that electricians and the like will do? or they just need to be made aware?

Most won't be generally too concerned as working in the industry you're exposed to it nearly everyday for domestic work. (Everytime you climb into a roof and stir up some dust it's likely you're breathing in Absestos fibres).

Avoid power tools like angle grinders to cut holes and use hand tools to cut holes which results in larger particles. Use shaving cream over drill holes to capture any dust and wipe away with paper towel. Try not to stir up dust. Wipe up any fibre droppings with wet paper towel.

As long as you're not stupid with the stuff like smashing up sheets in a confined space you can greatly minimise the risk without getting too anal about it. If you want to go one step furthur than have disposal overals and some P2 respirator masks available.

Looking at the photos I thought it might have even been masonite which when fixed on a wall can look identical to cement sheeting until you push on it or cut it. It's a fair bit in older houses in Brisbane.

[null & void]

Most won't be generally too concerned as working in the industry you're exposed to it nearly everyday for domestic work. (Everytime you climb into a roof and stir up some dust it's likely you're breathing in Absestos fibres).

Avoid power tools like angle grinders to cut holes and use hand tools to cut holes which results in larger particles. Use shaving cream over drill holes to capture any dust and wipe away with paper towel. Try not to stir up dust. Wipe up any fibre droppings with wet paper towel.

As long as you're not stupid with the stuff like smashing up sheets in a confined space you can greatly minimise the risk without getting too anal about it. If you want to go one step furthur than have disposal overals and some P2 respirator masks available.

Looking at the photos I thought it might have even been masonite which when fixed on a wall can look identical to cement sheeting until you push on it or cut it. It's a fair bit in older houses in Brisbane.

For an air-conditioner (split system) you normally need one large hole. Mark the circle and then drill using a series of small holes using a drill covered in shaving cream. You can then use a pair of long nose pliers and break the bits left between the drill holes - don't use a hammer as you can break the whole sheet. The hole than may need to be sealed as it has exposed fibres. PVA wood glue is something I've been told is good but may not work if there's condensation. Certainly don't use a masonary holesaw to drill through the sheet as thats the worse thing to do.

[NSP67]

So can anyone recommend anyone in Brisbane to test a sample for me?

If it is asbestos apart from making sure its sealed, what else do I need to look out for? Does it limit what electricians etc can or will do?

Lastly - would the mounting of the air conditioner make any difference in saying if they are asbestos or it doesn't matter?

Thanks
Paul

Barbz
try Asbestos Audits Queensland
(http://www.users.bigpond.com/bsch/Index.htm)

I'm over in Cleveland, just outside Brisbane. House was built in 1978. Building survey noted that the garage internal ceiling was Asbestos sheeting (and cracking!!!!). The above guys came and did a survey of the whole house. Got a detailed report telling me what was Asbestos and what wasn't. As well as the garage, its in the soffets, laundry room ...and all the builtin wardrobes!!!!! ! The rest of the house is all plasterboard Gyprock.

Got a company in to remove the garage stuff. Didn't get any change from $3K. Did all right things with taping up all the walls and floors. Wore the suits and masks. Did the job. But afterwards, it was still quite dusty even though they vacuumed everything (it was the garage after all) and i felt compelled to suit up and wash everything down myself just in case!!!

I'll sort the rest of the internal stuff out as i get to it. I know people say to let the sleeping giant lie, but i'll be happier if its not there.

Nick

[LotteBum]

Got a company in to remove the garage stuff. Didn't get any change from $3K. Did all right things with taping up all the walls and floors. Wore the suits and masks. Did the job. But afterwards, it was still quite dusty even though they vacuumed everything (it was the garage after all) and i felt compelled to suit up and wash everything down myself just in case!!!

Wow, you really got ripped off. I've had a few quotes to have some asbestos removed from our house. Around $4,500 to have asbestos in (small) study, bathroom, laundry, pantry and toilet. I refuse to pay that much for a day's work for someone who is not even a tradesman. Believe what you want about asbestos - sure, it's dangerous and sure, it's expensive to dispose of. But it's not THAT expensive. My partner did the Certificate B course in asbestos removal. Took 4 hours and cost $150. We'll buy the appropriate equipment and still come out on top! Also, I'm not so sure if I trust these professionals* to remove it. There are too many cowboys out there, making far too much money out of other people's fears.

Lotte

* I'm not so sure I'd call these guys professionals.

[NSP67]

Lotte
8 months on, i'll totally agree with you, but hindsight is a wonderfull thing. Having never had to worry about Asbestos before when i lived in the uk, most of my houses were quite new and having a young family, i suppose a lot of people would have done the same as me and got the stuff out asap, no matter what the cost.

Now, I'm a little bit wiser...and calmer about the whole thing. I've seen details about the certificate B course in Brisbane and have already signed up to it. As i mentioned previously, I'll attack it as and when i need to.

But you're very right. There are a lot of people getting very rich over this!

Nick

[rod@plasterbrok]

Personally I think there is a lot of scaremongering going on in regards to asbestos sheeting.

I don't doubt for a minute that asbestos is a very dangerous product, however I think the dangers are a lot lower than people are led to believe in asbestos sheeting.

Take care by all means but there is no need to be frantic about it.

I am 47 and at a very young age we spend hours over many weekends throwing bits of asbestos sheeting into a fire, where we had a holiday home, just to watch it explode! Touch wood I am not dead yet!

This is just my personal opinion.

[TJAY]

So what are my walls made of?? I've got an old Edwardian house in Melbourne which I'm about to start repairing the damp-proof on - I've spent the day chipping away at the original render/plaster - however I've come across a wall that seems to have some sort of fibro-cement sheet over it - would homes of this age have asbestos cement sheet internally?

[rod@plasterbrok]

Most likely to be asbestos sheet if it is original cement sheet lining.

Post a pic for better advice.

Cheers

[TJAY]

That's not good news, I'd hacked away at a bit before I noticed it wasn't plaster! And looking at other walls in the house where I've taken the skirting off there's a lot more of it!

Best be calling a pro in tomorrow to make sure!

[nev25]

Personally I think there is a lot of scaremongering going on in regards to asbestos sheeting.
.

Yeah Ive got cement sheeting in my laundry and toilet area.
I started to remove it years ago and it has sat there broken for many years.
When all this asbestos hype started I got a Asbestos removal person to come look to see if it is asbestos and to give me a quote.

Interesting thing is he broke a bit off (no protective clothing or face-masks etc) went outside and held it up to the light and said "oh yeah its asbestos see the furry bits around the edges thats how I can tell"

Took the piece with him and said it will cost $1500 for him to remove it all.