Sink Installation - distance from front bench edge to sink edge

[Flynn]

I never thought putting in a sink (cut out in bench) would be so tricky. The flatpax cabinet has a cross member running along the front which means the closest the sink edge can be to the front edge of the bench is 12cm. This means that to use the sink, say to wash up, one would have to lean over in an uncomfortable position:no: . I checked the kitchens at work and at home and saw that those cabinets have no cross member. The distance from the front bench to the edge of the sink is 6.4cm.

I'm wondering what is the "normal" distance used and do any cabinets use a cross member if a sink is installed. What's your sink position like (no sexual references thanks:U ), interested in hearing what's out there.

Cheers Flynn

[RufflyRustic]

Hi Flynn,

I totally agree that fitting sinks can be a real finicky job. I'm currently trying to cut out the counter top for the sink area to fit a very unsquare wall and then cut out the sink area. The worst bit is trying to balance the amount of benchtop to support the sink on that edge without having to lean over to use the sink as you've described. I think I'll be going for something between 500mm and 700mm.

cheers
Wendy

[ozwinner]

Ours is 65mm from the front of the bench to the sink flange.

Al :)

[Sybarite]

For this reason the (flat) cabinets supplied to contain a sink (or cooktop) should have a VERTICAL top rail and not a horizontal one.

This obviates the need for either having to cut material out of the horizontal top rail or setting the sink back too far.

When placing a sink (if there is a splash behind it) one thing to bear in mind is leaving enough space behind the tap so it is easy to clean and doesn't become a grease trap.

The attached illustration demonstrates a conventional method of how this is done.

Maybe it is possible to replace your horzontal top rail with a vertical piece...unless of course you already have all your carcasses fixed in place...although this can still be done.

Cheers,

[Flynn]

Goddamm it Sybarite (Earl) ! You've nailed it !. The top rail should have been vertical not horizontal ! I stupidly followed the instructions and the predrilled holes !. I'll now change the horizontal bar so that it is vertical on both the Oven cabinet (that won't interfer with the oven installation will it?) and the Kitchen sink cabinet, stupid Flatpax:~ .

By the way is the front of the cooktop edge usually the same distance from the front bench edge, as the sink (It appears as though it's 64-65mm -Thanks Al).

Cheers

Flynn

[DJ’s Timber]

When I use to install kitchens, we put a couple of screws thru the rail into the bottom of the Benchtop making sure that they were outside of the cutout area and then cut through the benchtop and the rail in one go.

Generally the sink was 60-65mm from the front edge

[Sybarite]

Flynn,

As you might notice on my diagram, we use a different board for the vertical top rail for the very reason that it can foul the locating of an oven.

A normal horizontal top rail is probably around 16 x 100 HMR, while our verticals are 19 x 46 vinyl wrapped solid oak.

djs' got another solution which sometimes you have to do...like when you are mounting a cooktop over a drawer box.

The reason we use the vertical rail is to maintain structural integrity and to minimize the cutting of boards on site.
Also bearing in mind that you will then have an unfinished HMR edge underneath either your sink or your cooktop and you might want to run some sealant over the new cut.

Of course you are cutting the holes in the benchtop anyway, so it's not too much of a stretch to cut through the rail as well...as long as you have, as the man said, put your benchtop screws far enough forward.

Re distance in from the edge of the top, I think this will be as much dictated by the other issue we were discussing - splashback clearances...otherwise there is no hard and fast rule, so if the sink and top are close to one another you may as well try and keep the set back similar.

Cheers,

[Flynn]

Earl,

An update, I rang Flatpax and spoke to the girl answering the phone (she is not a qualified installer:rolleyes: ), but got the answer for me. The method suggested by Flatpax was to simply cut through the horizontal cross member/rail. Didn't bother to suggest that I might screw it into the bench top first:rolleyes: .

Thanks for your help it's appreciated. What's the name of your company so we all know who you are :2tsup: (unless it's a secret).

PS When I asked about the gas cook top and Australian standards all she could do was measure the kitchens they had set up in the office and take measurements:rolleyes: . This she said was okay because "all the kitchens were set up according to Australian standards". So in their kitchens with a 600mm bench, the distance from the front edge of the cook top to the front of the front edge of the bench was 70mm. And the distance from the back edge of the cook top (not burner) to the wall was 50mm. When I said that was different to the 200mm that was told to me yesterday she said that was for the side distances. When I said it was odd that there would be different measurements for the side and rear (what flames only spreadout sideways but not rearward ?:doh: ), she agreed. I suggested that the distances related to combustible and non-combustible walls (thanks for the info), she didn't know. I realised I'd taken the conversation one step too far. You gotta love the old "don't ask me I only work here" senario.

Cheers

Flynn

[Sybarite]

Hi Flynn,

Thanks for the shout out...

No, there is no big secret about our business name, in fact, if you click on the link at the botttom of this page you will be taken directly to our web site.

Here is an image of the sign on the front door...

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u240/strumer/Front_Door.jpg

My contributions to these forums could be regarded as a form of passive marketing, but I thought it would be too crass to put our business identity at the bottom of every post - I suppose I like to think that I don't come across as only having a single agenda by being here.

This is also why I do not directly market our product on these forums, preferring instead to try and provide valid contributions which demonstrate to others that we might have something to offer them.

Cheers,

[gregt]

Flynn,

Any chance of some photos of your kitchen's progress. We are also looking at either a Flatpax or Ikea kitchen design. What do you think of the quality? I know the choice is limited on styles and colours but I worked ours out to be around $4500.00 and had quotes from others over $10k for a flatpack:oo: that I still had to put together. Has anyone else got any usefull input?
Cheers
Greg

[RufflyRustic]

Hi Greg, My Mum has just put in a very small, but very functional IKEA flatpack kitchen. It looks good, is very useable and if my Mum, who is 68, can put it together, anyone can (yeah, I'm proud of my Mum:- ).

So yeah, they aren't too bad at all :)

cheers
Wendy

[Flynn]

Greg,

The Flatpax kitchen cabinets are made of a chipboard with a laminate finish. The End panels and Doors are an MDF with a two pack finish.
For the most part the pre drilled holes lined up and the cabinets are reasonably square, although there was one that caused the screw to go in on an angle and resulted in the laminate nearly spliting :doh: . However, this was at the rear of the cabinet so no visual damage done. The instructions were reasonably clear, it was only when I was cutting out the bench for the sink and cooktop that I needed some help (thank God for this forum). The flatpax help line is "manned" by ladies,who whilst trying be helpful, lack any detailed knowledge on installations every question I asked was referred to a "Supervisor". Resulting in answers that were wrong because they had got the question wrong when speaking to the supervisor or incomplete. I got the impression I was dealing with a "young" company that need more experience when dealing with customers.

I was surprised that the End panels for the draws were not predrilled, and was unable to find out why other than "that's the way we make them".

The cost for kitchen without bench was about $1200 consisting of the following 1*200mm wall infill, 1*150mm base cabinet, rangehood cabinet, 1*2 Draw 900mm cabinet, 1*900mm cabinet, 1*450mm 4 draw cabinet, 1*450mm wall cabinet, 1*600mm Oven cabinet. Whilst the 3600mm bench was $475 delivered.

I was a little dissappointed that the rangehood cabinet including the rangehood fitted did not match the 200mm (width)wall cabinet in height.

These cabinets were bought for an investment property and will do the job nicely. Whilst I'm no expert, I think they represent good value for money.

Feel free to ask any other questions

Cheer

Flynn

[journeyman Mick]

.....................I was a little dissappointed that the rangehood cabinet including the rangehood fitted did not match the 200mm (width)wall cabinet in height....................


Let me guess, it wasn't as tall right? Generally overheads are mounted 600 above the tops for the best compromise between accessability and head clearance but from memory those over cooktops need to be at least 650 from the top of the burner (possibly higher again for gas).

Mick

[Flynn]

Mick,

The Flatpax instructions said the min distance for the rangehood cabinet should be 600mm. I then went to the Flatpack's website and saw that they recommend that their cabinets be placed at 604mm above the bench top. I then viewed their photo gallery and saw that all but one photo had the rangehood at the same height as the wall cabinets above the benchtops ie 604mm. I even asked an experienced installer who told me 600mm-620mm. If the min height is 650mm then a lot of people need to rebuild part of their kitchens and a few companies could find themselves being sued. Are you able to confirm the figure of 650mm ?.

Sybarite, Bricks what's your view ?

Cheers

Flynn

[Sybarite]

Australian Standards call for a minimum cabinet height above a cooktop to be 600mm, and we happily specify this for cabinets/rangehoods above electric tops.

Suprisingly there doesn't, in my interpretation of what I consider to be at best an average quality set of written requirements, seem to be anything definite about a higher requirement for gas tops.

Many range hood manufacturers state that their product must be mounted an extra 50mm if used over a gas top, and we, as a personal rule, always provide 655mm for cabinets/rangehoods over gas tops.

Cheers,

[journeyman Mick]

I'm sure I've seen reference somewhere that 650 is the minimum requirement of cabinet/rangehood over the burner, but perhaps that was in the stove/cooktop manufacturer's literature. At any rate, unless otherwise specified by rangehood/cooktop/stove manufacturer I've been fitting mine at 650, with the rest of the cabinets at 600. So what was the difference in height between the cabinets?

Mick

[Flynn]

Mick,

The Flatpax rangehood cabinet has a 600mm height and the rest of the wall cabinets are 720mm. Add the rangehood 40mm to the cabinet= 640mm. So the difference between the two cabinets is 80mm. Now allowing for the height of the burner 30mm this means that my range hood should be sitting at =654mm above the top of the burner :2tsup: (604mm (height above bench of wall cabinet) plus the 80mm difference less the 30mm for height of burner).

Thanks Mick, now I'm glad there's a difference:D .

I checked a Tasmanian government website (about the only place I could find on the web for information about installations apart from here) that dealt with "Electrical Contractor Service and Installation Guide" and on page 57 and 58 gave details and diagram about the "Restricted zone" which matched the information given by Earl ie "600mm above the hotplates/burners". It also showed a restricted horistonal zone to the sides, of 150mm from the edge of the hotplates (electrical) and 200mm for gas burners. However, for the rear of the burner/hotplate it shows 50mm with the rear wall to be non flammable.

So those Kitchens in the Flatpack photo gallery are probably okay sitting at 604mm above the bench, although I note that you and Earl like it at 650mm and 655mm respectively for gas. Glad I followed the experts:wink: .

Cheers

Flynn