Infraction points??

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Just spotted Jakes post about a warning he received. Fortunately I can't say I've any similar experiences [phew!] but from the wording of the warning "you have lost 9 points" or similar, it's obvious there's a limit somewhere,but I haven't seen anything about it in the FAQ or admin posts...

So... how many points do we start with? Or is it a more flexible setup?

(I hate "HitchHikers Guide" type rules: "What do you mean you didn't know? The Official Notice has been posted in the Council Office Basement for the last 6 months! Plenty of time for you to read it... " :rolleyes:)

[echnidna]

And to see a mod blame it on the friday drivellers just seems so odd.
The friday nonsense was exactly that and I can't see how that particular thread made a lot of work for the mods.

Maybe I'd do the same as Jake in his situation.
I daresay if the mods get too heavy handed then new forums may sprout up

[ozwinner]

And to see a mod blame it on the friday drivellers just seems so odd.
The friday nonsense was exactly that and I can't see how that particular thread made a lot of work for the mods.

Maybe I'd do the same as Jake in his situation.
I daresay if the mods get too heavy handed then new forums may sprout up

Bob, it sounds as though you need a stint on this side of things to change your mind.

Al :2tsup::cool:

[echnidna]

My lifestyle means that I am constantly at the beck & call of "idiots" and I wouldn't like to expand my load to handle even more idiots

Thank you Al but I do not want to be a mod.

As to "infraction points" that coincept seems like it musta bin dreamed up by a schoolteacher or a policeman.
A load of Codswallop

[snowyskiesau]

Are there infraction points and if so, where in the forum rules are they mentioned?

[outback]

Jeez you lot lead an insular life. I got an infraction a while ago, only worth a point, I didn't know how many I was allowed to get. Is it like ya car license? Do we have double demerit weekends? :D

[watson]

I dunno,
But I got me one..maybe I'll go and read the rules again

[Daddles]

The infraction points system is just a method of weighting a misdemeanour. If you were really naughty, you'd be banned outright. So consider them a form of warning, like a yellow card in soccer or a report in AFL or a the nice copper taking your name and address. Sometimes they come with a penalty, sometimes they don't. The points all have a time limit - they don't stay there forever.

If you've copped some infraction points, it's because you stepped out of line and the moderator involved wanted to give you a warning and in some cases, a chance to cool down. Cop them quietly and take the time to listen to why they were issued (they come with an explanation) and you won't have any problems with the system but, like a footballer who argues with the umpire and keeps doing the same thing, you'll get hit again and harder.


I hate "HitchHikers Guide" type rules
Skew, think about it mate. It would be a lot easier for us mods to have a rigid set of rules and to hammer everyone who crossed the line - really, it would, it would even give me time to take part in the forum which I don't have at the moment (too busy putting out spot fires on the forum). We've chosen to be flexible and to allow the larrikinism that we all enjoy. When that larrikinism gets out of control though, when it starts affecting other users and their enjoyment of the forum, we step in. Yes, this is nebulous but it has produced the forum we have today. The alternative is a much stricter forum. Do you really want that?

Part of the trouble is that someone gets spanked, then complains publically but doesn't bother to explain the full details - rather it's "poor me, I got spanked", and everyone feels sorry. Someone else them gets on the case and starts making inaccurate statements (and we have seen a few members doing this deliberately, don't assume that everyone is innocent). Next thing you know, confusion is the rule ... but members don't seem interested in reading what the mods have to say, they'd rather leap on the mistatements of others.

In a way, we mods have made it worse because we usually try to explain what's going on - it'd be easier and clearer if we just deleted anything that wasn't strictly kosher and left it at that. I've been on forums that do that - they aren't the happy place that this forum is.


The friday nonsense was exactly that and I can't see how that particular thread made a lot of work for the mods.

If the drivel had stayed in that one thread, it would have been fine. But it didn't. This too has been explained by Ubeaut ... several times :!

No-one enjoys seeing their threads ruined by mindless and irrellevant posts - we call that drivel and are now cracking down on it. Where's the problem. The definition? It's been given, by the mods and admins quite a few times, and it includes the words "mindless and irrellevant". It's not difficult, so why are some members refusing to see that and insist on reading all sorts of dark and malicious reasons into it?


My lifestyle means that I am constantly at the beck & call of "idiots" and I wouldn't like to expand my load to handle even more idiots


Right. You don't want to do it ... so why the hell should we mods? I'm doing this because I was asked to by Neil and I'm continuing to do it because I've got a lot of loyalty to a forum that's given me a lot of help and a great community to be a member of.

Richard

[chrisb691]

Unfortunately, I don't think that the time you took on your response will stop the whinging.....but well said anyway.

[outback]

Bare with us on this one OK. There has been a crack down, no problem, I think most of us are happy to toe the line. I received an infraction a while ago, and had to ask what it was, I took it as a bit of a joke.
Watson has one now, for drivelling I presume, worth a point. Jake copped a nine pointer, I don't know what for, other than drivelling. Again no problems.
Sturdee tried to make light of things and copped a reaming, being the better person he is, took it on the chin and moved on.
I guess we need to know where the new line is. Ok if we are all honest we know what complete drivel is, but without some guidlines, which we are all happy to follow, I feel we are running scared.
It appears to me, that a one ponter is a smack on the wrist, nine is bloody serious, and gets you into trouble for a week.
I'm not asking for mandatory sentancing, just to take away some of the big wide grey area to which you refer.

If we know what's what, we promise to play nice. I know there can be a fine line between larikinism and drivel at times, so a hard and fast set of rules is impossible.

Perhaps a rough outline, one point means ya just over the line and watch it, three ya over the top and know it, accumulate ten and ya out. It seems we're a bit in the dark just yet.

[MajorPanic]

There had better be a thicker line between even-handedness & favouritism then.

[Article99]

I would imagine it to be up to the judgment of whichever mod is giving out the points in regards to how many you get for what. The problem with even rough outlines is that they invite those that have been reprimanded to question them and then say 'rar rar rar, this person only got this many points, and I ain't done nothin that bad...'.

Realistically, its all unnecessary BS. On an IT Forum or similar where its a bunch of 13 year old kids calling each other homosexual, yeah, fine, but here it really shouldn't be coming to this. A good example I spotted only 5 minutes ago...



Originally Posted by xxxxx http://mt0.woodworkforums.com/images/button2/viewpost.gif (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?p=489791#post489791)
An OCTOgon barrel. Is that so you can kill 8 people at once. :C:no:
(EDIT: said member deleted this post themselves -Groggy)That's just flinging mud and starting a politcal $h1t-stir debate for the sake of it. Why bother?

Drivel has been given its very own board (which I've never seen done anywhere else, btw.) So that shouldn't be an issue either.

So, seriously guys, where is the problem? Maybe some folk are just taking a bit too much liberty when they shouldn't. So if a Mod slaps ya with a couple of points, cop it fair on the chin and don't do it again. If you feel you were innocent, PM the mod. If that gets nowhere, PM whomever is the next rung up in the chain, instead of moaning about it publically. All you'll really do is make yourself look like a sook. Now if ya can make a piece of wood look pretty, how can this be so hard? :doh:

(Sorry if I'm stealin' your thunder, Richard, or even stepping out of line myself, I just felt it needed to be said.)

[Groggy]

Thanks Zac, it's good to hear someone else say it occasionally

[outback]

..................snip....................
So, seriously guys, where is the problem? Maybe some folk are just taking a bit too much liberty when they shouldn't. So if a Mod slaps ya with a couple of points, cop it fair on the chin and don't do it again. If you feel you were innocent, PM the mod. If that gets nowhere, PM whomever is the next rung up in the chain, instead of moaning about it publically. All you'll really do is make yourself look like a sook. Now if ya can make a piece of wood look pretty, how can this be so hard? :doh:

........snip.......


I'm just trying to avoid upsetting the mods, and finding where the new line is. I get the feeling a couple of others feel the same way.
Neil has decreed a change, so be it. The sooner we get it all settled the better. As someone who lives life on the edge, I just want to know where the new edge is.

[Article99]

Thanks Zac, it's good to hear someone else say it occasionally

You're welcome, mate. Really just calling it as I see it. :wink:


I'm just trying to avoid upsetting the mods, and finding where the new line is.

I'd have imagined the line to be a common sense of right and wrong, myself. Where's the need to visit the edge of polite conversation on a forum? I know you old bulls love a good stir, but seriously... peace. :peace2: :p

[Ashore]

So... how many points do we start with? :rolleyes:)
I also read Jakes thread and wondered not only about the 9 points but the wording of stuart's PM , "and we have a long memory ", now iI didn't see the post that got jake in trouble as it was deleted before I could read it either by a moderator or by Jake himself so I can't judge on how bad it was or if the reaction was justified or over zelous BUT Skew asked the question as did Jake , how many points do you have and how many before expulsion etc. This thread has had replies from at least 3 moderators and comments like

"The infraction points system is just a method of weighting a misdemeanour. If you were really naughty, you'd be banned outright. So consider them a form of warning, like a yellow card in soccer or a report in AFL or a the nice copper taking your name and address. Sometimes they come with a penalty, sometimes they don't. The points all have a time limit - they don't stay there forever. "


This doesn't even go close to answering skews original Question , " So... how many points do we start with? " and so the question remains if there is a penalty system based on points , how many are there and is the systen purly based on one moderators view or are there guidelines. :?

[Toolin Around]

stuart's PM , "and we have a long memory"


Not much brighter than what Jake said as far as I'm concerned. In fact I'd say it was even dumber :(( :(( :((. Maybe you need to have a nap

[Cliff Rogers]

Well I can tell you that simply inferring with smilies & without even using the member's name, 'Up Yours Grandpa' in responce to something in a closed thread that you didn't even get chance to post in will get you a one pointer, particularly if the 'Grandpa' was somebody's mate. :D

http://www.ubeaut.biz/oldman.gifhttp://www.ubeaut.biz/thefinger.gif = deliberate insult so don't do it, OK? http://www.ubeaut.biz/smarty.gif

[Ashore]

Not much brighter than what Jake said as far as I'm concerned. In fact I'd say it was even dumber :(( :(( :((. Maybe you need to have a nap
It was what jake said , its called a quote, so whats your point in calling me dumber and saying I need a nap , mate as simple as I can for you I will try and explain the line from my post you took and made those remarks about.

I Was asking without being rude why stuart had used that phrase, to me, and in my opinion it seamed a little threaterning, now you may not have seen it that way as is your right but to call me dumber than ( jake ) now thats getting personal and no I don't need a nap, I just asked a question , I have no idea why you feel the need to lay personal abuse on me or make snide remarkes and take 1 line from my post and use it out of context, unless it was for your own ego trip or was it to get me to answer in an equally unpleasant way, and if it was then you have failed. :doh:

[Toolin Around]

It was what jake said , its called a quote, so whats your point in calling me dumber and saying I need a nap , mate as simple as I can for you I will try and explain the line from my post you took and made those remarks about.

I Was asking without being rude why stuart had used that phrase, to me, and in my opinion it seamed a little threaterning, now you may not have seen it that way as is your right but to call me dumber than ( jake ) now thats getting personal and no I don't need a nap, I just asked a question , I have no idea why you feel the need to lay personal abuse on me or make snide remarkes and take 1 line from my post and use it out of context, unless it was for your own ego trip or was it to get me to answer in an equally unpleasant way, and if it was then you have failed. :doh:

I know - hence the reason I included "stuat's PM..." It was directed at the one who said it. Kind of a quote of a quote. Didn't even read most of what you said but I think you need to calm down. But then again... you're from NewCastle so I can understand your pain:D :D .

[Wongo]

Personally I can’t really see what the problem is. It was a bit of fun and it did no one any harm. However, if it caused some of you to lose sleep at night then I will stop being part of the Friday thread. So back to the good old days. :)

BTW nice pen and thanks for showing us.:2tsup:

[Groggy]

Personally I can’t really see what the problem is. It was a bit of fun and it did no one any harm. However, if it caused some of you to lose sleep at night then I will stop being part of the Friday thread. So back to the good old days. :)

BTW nice pen and thanks for showing us.:2tsup:Wongo, you've done it mate, I am completely gobsmacked by that post - seriously.

Haven't you read any of the posts? Happy to discuss it on PMs as the forums are chockers with this gumph already. :doh:

[Cliff Rogers]

...BTW nice pen and thanks for showing us.:2tsup:
Huh? Where? :hmm:

[Ashore]

I know - hence the reason I included "stuat's PM..." It was directed at the one who said it. Kind of a quote of a quote. Didn't even read most of what you said but I think you need to calm down. But then again... you're from NewCastle so I can understand your pain:D :D .
Matie you have no idea how calm I am
If it was directed at the one who said it, then don't tell me I need a nap.

And Newcastle has one capital only , the N , so tell me why I should have pain if I live in the best city in Australia or have you visited every major city in Australia and a lot of the smaller ones and made a value judgement that anyone that lives in Newcastle must be in pain.

Matie I have Been to every major city in Australia and I have found each have both good and bad points but my choice was to live in Newcastle, this was not due to my job as a Marine Engineer, which meant I could live anywear but because in my opinion Newcastle offered the best living standard schools and was the best place to bring up my children. Now to tell me I have pain ( or reading between the lines an attitude problem ) because of where I live then I take offence

Today we lost a good member, someone who had a lot of good imput into this forum , due to a new points system and I asked why and how it worked, and the only response I got was from tooling around who said I was dumber than jake & needed a nap , and then that he could understand my pain as I live in Newcastle, to me both were an insult though the latter was with :D

In my time at this forum I have tried to be as helpfull as I can
In my earlier posts I did try to add a bit of levety and humour as well but after one of our now moderaters took offence and constantly used the term wanker I have refraimed from humour and just stuck to offering advice where I can and opinions where I thought they were needed

Neil I have enjoyed this forum and hope to continue to do so I am only asking for some clarification on the new points system, we have lost one member and others have recieved varying points so I go back to my origional post
1 How many points do we have
2 How long do they last
3 And are there any guidlines or does each moderator have the option to issue as many points as he/she sees fit
4 could it be possible to put the deleted posts ithat suffer a penalty in an area where we can see to judge where the line is drawn ( though this may be too hard )

[snowyskiesau]

I have to agree with ashore here, if there is a points system - tell us what it is.
It difficult to toe the line if no one will tell us where the line is.

[ubeaut]

Two birds with one stone here.

Infraction points:

An infraction is given as a warning for a misdemeanor.

The points are given out as befits the infraction (crime so to speak) In general 1 point is handed out at a time until the receiver gets 10 points then one of a number of things will happen. You could be banned for an hour, day, week or indefinitely. Or you may lose forum privileges like sending PM's or similar for a period of time.

If it is felt an infringement is really bad, (for instance, slander and malicious unfounded lies against another member) it is probable the perpetrator could receive all 10 points in 1 hit and be banned indefinitely until the matter was cleared up.

The point accumulate over a period of time (usually 10 days but this can be extended for as long or as short a time as the moderator or admin giving the point sees fit) and then if they don't reach 10 are wiped and the slate is clean again, until the next time. Hopefully there will never be a next time.

Banning is done as the very, very last resort. We do not like doing it and try everything in our power to resolve a problem rather then ban a member. If you are banned by a moderator that ban can be overturned at any time by any of the administrators if it is deemed the banning was unjust or or pay back etc. To date there has been less than a handful of banned member reinstated there have been hundred banned. Mostly spammers and peddlers of .

I hope all who are interested can understand what I have written above. If so it is as simple as that,


Ok if we are all honest we know what complete drivel is, but without some guidlines, which we are all happy to follow, I feel we are running scared.
The boundaries for drivel:

______________________________________________


Below is copy of the only instructions given by me to the mods re drivel. I have been loath to put this on because it shows the boundaries that I know some of you are going to push. However for the sake of some peace and rational thinking from some members I have put them on here.

______________________________________________


Not worried about drivel in anything other than real forums.

Woodies Jokes and A Woodies Yarn are fun and if they want to drivel in there then who cares.

Polls to a lesser extent are much the same and only in the more serious polls would I be worried about drivel or hijacking, actually some of the polls deserve...... Nay, beg, to be hijacked.

My best interpretation of what could give rise to deletion and infraction. Anything mindless that sounds like it's coming from a little kid and has nothing what so ever to do with the thread it's in.

Pretty simplistic I know but how complicated do we want to make it.

Leave the witty stuff etc so long as it's in keeping with the thread and isn't intended as a deliberate hijack, even then, if the thread rights itself almost immediately leave it. I definitely don't want to kill what makes these forum so great and that is the fact that we do have a laugh, make wise cracks, etc.

______________________________________________


My final words in this thread:

I have way over $150,000 and 8 years of my life invested in these forums. I do nothing that does not benefit the forums and all those members who are genuinely interested in seeing them grow. If any of you think otherwise you must be crazy. Every time something new is done or tried there are a handful of members (less than .05% of the membership) who come here and spread the doom and gloom bit. They never seem take time out to think through the consequences of their actions.

Current time 3:18 am. I don't need this sheeit.

[Toolin Around]

Lets just say I'm sorry. You were not meant to be the recipient of my anger. I didn't do a good job on the clarity of what I was intending on saying and to whom I was directing it. I wasn't sayin you need a nap it was suppose to be directed at stuart. All of what I said was meant to be directed at stuart

You're sounding a bit defensive about living in Newcastle (one capital)...

It's a Queensland thing (also one capital:p ). We tend to feel sorry for those tha don't live in paradise:wink:.

I bet you can't get a marine engineering job in Alice Springs:wink: .

Very much agreed we lost a good member because of the abuse of a mods (I don't think giving point is bad but saying "We have a long memory" is total crap).

[Ashore]

Fair enough tooling lets just put it down to misunderstanding and leave it at that . Groggy was good enough to explain the points thing last night as well, though he left the posting to Neil and rightly so.:2tsup:

Neil I was not spreading doom and gloom , nor complaining about these or any changes mearly asking for some clarification , I can now see your point that some may well push to the limits if they know them but think you will agree that 99.5 % won't and it is always better to know the penalty to better understand the crime.

Tooling in actual fact the Qualifications to operate and maintain the boiler at the Hospital at the Alice are those carried by a Marine Engineer as are the Qualifications of the local boiler inspector who must give the permits for any boilers operated by laundries etc in the area, Had a mate I sailed with working out of Alice for the NT government for 15 years , :D

Rgds

[echnidna]

I bet you can't get a marine engineering job in Alice Springs:wink: .



Addenda to ashores explanation.
There is always the Alice Springs Yatch Club for recreational boating.
(It works real well when the Todd River is flowing)

[Iain]

When the river flows the race is cancelled, just like my last response.

[echnidna]

whatever :D