kitchen layout ... whats recommended?

[Aangelique1611]

Just wondering if any of the experts out there can tell me if im headed in the right area in terms of design/layout of my 'kitchen-to-be'. See the images attached ... its a small area a=175cm x b=380cm with a large window and door area and a need for a fridge, oven and cooktop, washer dryer and sink .... wondering if i have committed any resolvable cardinal kitchen design sins ar if anyone has any better ideas? Thanks!

[silentC]

I don't think you have a lot to work with. Kitchens are usually designed around the 'work triangle' which is drawn between the sink, fridge and stove. You normally want that to be as small as possible, but it's limited by the bench space. I think in your first drawing, the fridge and pantry are isolated and a long way from where the action takes place. On the other hand, you lose a lot of bench space and storage in your second design.

Any reason why you can't put the washer and dryer in the other corner (where fridge and pantry are in the first drawing)? Are the windows floor to ceiling?

[RufflyRustic]

Um, a sink in the corner??? Are you just rough-blocking in areas to get an initial idea of the layout?

thanks
Wendy

[Aangelique1611]

yeah ... i wasnt sure about the sink in the corner as it is next to the stove ... is that allowed?

the reason for the washer dryer near the sink is that i wanted to avoid changing the plumbing around ... thought this might get expensive ... and if not may even be a strata issue ... either way i thought it sounded like a lot more work and would prefer to avoid if possible.

[Aangelique1611]

i was initially planning on doing an ikea kitchen so was using the kitchen planner online to have a play with configuration ... still may do an ikea kitchen if i go with the kitchen being further away as the option ... i thought it was too far away at first also but some of the kitchen guidelines suggest 7m as being the maximum ... i thought that sounded huge but mine is only half of that ...

[silentC]

OK, well I take it the oven is a floor standing cooker?

I would put the washer dryer where you have the sink. The sink would be a 900 or 1200mm with the draining board to the right and that would sit over the cupboard that has the dryer. This gives you a bit of bench in the corner between the stove and the sink to use for preparation and a place to put dirty dishes before you wash them.

Then I would either have the fridge over in that corner where you have it in drawing 1, or I would get a small bar fridge under the bench where you have it in drawing 2 and go shopping more often. Fresh food is better for you anyway :)

[silentC]

And maybe think about a small island bench or butcher's block on the right so you have a bit more bench space and can look out your windows while you peel the spuds...

[Aangelique1611]

If i were to put sink above dryer wouldnt i need to increase the bench height then to cater for the extra height i would need above the dryer to cater for the sink depth?

whats the maximum recommended bench height (as the dryer is approx 86cm high)

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I think he means to swap the positions of sink & dryer. :wink:

Not only would it be more practical in terms of use, but then you'd also be able to use under the bench in the corner (next to the stove) for "long-term storage." Otherwise it's wasted space.

[silentC]

I think he means to swap the positions of sink & dryer.
Yup.

But you still have a drastic lack of cupboard space. You'll need plenty of wall cupboards (another argument for having a small fridge).

So what about the windows? Are they full height? Could you put benches under them?

[Aangelique1611]

firstly, thanks for all the replies guys, much appreciated. ok, so sink in the corner, i like that better also but will there be an issue of door opening/oven clash? i guess i just ahve to have a right sided door handle? will this be anough for them not to be disfunctional? yup, lots of cupboard space, will need a full sized fridge though so will need to decide on if it is far side of next to oven ... are there any rules on fridges next to ovens? seems weird, the hot next to the cold ... suppose there is some thermo panel there or something to stop the interference.

re. window height sorry, they are somewhere between 70 and 82 underneath making them not high enough to be consistent with the height i need to get my dryer under ... doh!

[Aangelique1611]

one other thing ... can you put a drawer cabinet under a sink? or does it have to be a door cabinet?

[celeste]

Hi Aangelique1611

1st - it is illegal to have the washing machine in the kitchen - but we won't dob! Needs to be in a seperate room, direct from health dept.

2nd - ikea have a range of base cabinets that are only 37cm deep - perfect for small kitchens - also check out their cnr units with carousels etc perfect for hard to access cnrs. Also, you need to go in to ikea they do not have everything in the cat. or on the web.

3rd - can you mount the washing machine on the wall ? is it front loading? and then have the sink under it - you could get away with 400-500mm clearance above the sink.

4th - Ikea have those combi cupboards maybe washing machine on bottom and the oven in the middle - as long as machine is front loader.

5th - There is no regulation re oven next to fridge. I just installed an upright gas next to a fridge, everyone said it OK.

6th - lose the normal oven and get one of those new convention/micro - they are both a normal oven and a micro - there are standard ones and ones with fancy heating tech that cooks real fast $700 - 1000 and they are smaller and can be plugged into normal socket as they are only 10amp, a normal oven is 15amps and need it own power/circuit.

If you use one of these mico ovens, IKea have a wall mount cupboard with a space for a microwave = more bench space.

7th - the pantry is good in the far corner.

Well I can not remember any more of your lay out etc. So, that my ideas for now, I will have another look a post further if I think of anything else.:2tsup:
Celeste

[celeste]

one other thing ... can you put a drawer cabinet under a sink? or does it have to be a door cabinet?

Hi me again

In regards to above depends where your plumbing is, if its from the floor - no. If it coming out of the wall maybe - I think ikea have a sink cabinet with draws - you need to check the clearance behind the draw for the waste pipe.

Also, further to other replies - Ikea have a little round sink with will fit on a 40 - 45mm bench top. Pop it under the washer and mount one of those SS dish racks from ikea on the wall behind it.

Ikea also have a neat little butchers block on wheels - perfect.

Sorry, can you tell I really like ikea - I think I know their range by heart. L.O.L:2tsup:

Celeste

[celeste]

Hi me again

Here's a picture of one of my IKEA kitchen reno's in a small 1 bed apartment.

I used the normal 60mm deep cabinets - they did not have the 37cm ones then.

Celeste

[Aangelique1611]

1. are you for real!?!? thats insane! its the perfect place for a washer dryer. Its totally the done thing in europe! silly.
2. love ikea! love the 37cm cabinets, thought of that myself but need the depth for oven and sink and washer dryer dont i? .... not sure but i didnt think i could get around that.
3. very good idea about the wall mounted machine (yes, front loader) ... not sure about how asthetically pleasing it will be but will have a play with the design in that regard, hadnt thought of that option!
4. wasnt sure what a combi cabinet
5. good to hear abotu oven next to fridge
6. trying to keep costs as low as possible and have a quite new oven (saving for bathroom reno)

thanks so much for the detailed feedback! ps. i think it was u who got me onto the kitchen idea ... u were talkign about ikea benchtops so i went in to have a look and have since spent the last month working up the budget to just do the whole lot :)

[celeste]

Hi Aangelique1611

how far off the ground are the windows?

celeste

[Aangelique1611]

thanks so much for the pics! tell me, are those 'stat white' cupboards? do they look white installed or cream? and did u use white or cream based back splash tiles? thats very similar to what im looking at doing but no corner peice things and drawers under sink of possible and based on others feedback now would put dryer next to sink.
did you make the cupboards yourself? is it as easy as they make it out to be? or did u get the 'make-up' service ... im going to have a crack myself... do u midn me asking $$$?

[Aangelique1611]

somewhere between 70 and 82 ... too low for dryer if under bench but fine if on wall.

[Aangelique1611]

do you think if there are no drawers potential buyers reactions would be 'oh, budget kitchen, no cutlery drawer' or do u think they would not be bothered (i know i wouldnt be if it looked nice, i would just have a cutlerey stand inside one of the wall or base cupboards)

[celeste]

thanks so much for the pics! tell me, are those 'stat white' cupboards? do they look white installed or cream? and did u use white or cream based back splash tiles? thats very similar to what im looking at doing but no corner peice things and drawers under sink of possible and based on others feedback now would put dryer next to sink.
did you make the cupboards yourself? is it as easy as they make it out to be? or did u get the 'make-up' service ... im going to have a crack myself... do u midn me asking $$$?

Hi again

Arlig white - the cheapest, they are white when installed
White tiles with the SS look tiles, cheap ones.
solid beech top from ikea

They are easy as to put together - buy your self a little bosch elect. screw driver $60 saves the wrist etc no end with all those screws.

The bench top was a little tricky - I suggest you have it made and installed. or hire a chippy to cut and install or have a cabinet maker cut it and attach joiners and install your self ( cutting it spot on for the joins was the tricky bit, I had to call for help from a chippy friend.

It cost from memory about 2k for every thing both sides accept the fridge/oven/canopy. $399/$749/$149

celeste

[celeste]

HI

Heres a another kitchen 3d software package that I find really good - just keep in mind the cabinet sizes are not quite the same as ikea

alno ag kitchen planner - pop that in search on web.

Celeste

[celeste]

do you think if there are no drawers potential buyers reactions would be 'oh, budget kitchen, no cutlery drawer' or do u think they would not be bothered (i know i wouldnt be if it looked nice, i would just have a cutlerey stand inside one of the wall or base cupboards)

I always find a spot for draws. I do whole kitchen with draws if I could, to expensive for my renos at the mo. tho I have put 2 sets in my lates 1 5 draws and 1 with 3.

Celeste

[Aangelique1611]

thanks for that ... i was going to employ the services of the crew ikea suggested on the web site for things like fixing the cupboards to the wall, tiling and plu,bing/electrical but saw no harm in saving some coin by making carcases myself...
did your bodget u just mentioned include plumbing/elec? thats incredibley cheap!
I was deciding between arlig and stat was worried arlig might look cheap but from your photos it looks great, obviously your very happy with the finish?

[Aangelique1611]

ok, will keep exploring the drawers under sink option then as that will probabaly be my only space available...

[Aangelique1611]

also, you mentioned they didnt have 37cm at the time u did your reno ... does that mean the wall cabinets were 60cm deep? (even if not do u think using 60cm deep ones would look strange?

[celeste]

thanks for that ... i was going to employ the services of the crew ikea suggested on the web site for things like fixing the cupboards to the wall, tiling and plu,bing/electrical but saw no harm in saving some coin by making carcases myself...
did your bodget u just mentioned include plumbing/elec? thats incredibley cheap!
I was deciding between arlig and stat was worried arlig might look cheap but from your photos it looks great, obviously your very happy with the finish?

No forgot the plimbing, he did the bathroom as well.

He moved taps down and changed them for a mixer - relocated the mains tap outside, disconnected and reconnect oven and sink so about 3 hours $300-400 would be about right - his total bill was $1k. Hint - budget about $150 hour and just call them in they are cheaper that way. Oh and I dismantle things myself now - accept gas and elec.

Once you work out what you want let me know what needs doing (plumb and elect) and I will give you a rough time budget. Also, it is cheaper to get the elect to do a few things at the same time, and just call one to come, do not get a quote.

I will also give you a reno plan (what order to do things):2tsup:

Celeste

[Aangelique1611]

awsome! sounds great! would love to c a reno plan! how do you know for sure you can do what you want to do ... what i mean is that isnt it too late once i have everything assembled and then call a trady out and they say 'your electricals wont go there or your pipes wont do that' etc? how do i confirm prior once i have my design down pat that i can do everything i intend?

[Aangelique1611]

ps, if your kitchen cost in the 2-3k brakcket and you got your bathroom done also (totally digressing here) how much did that cost? :) i was budgeting in the 4-5 for kitchen ... if i can do it for much less i will be much closer to a bathroom reno :) now THATS exciting!

[Aangelique1611]

another qu ... :) really picking your brains here but in the pictures the area is a fair size, there is clearly enough room for a small dining table. Why did you choose to have a dining bench as opposed to a table? I am considering the bench but not sure if it is an antisocial option ...

[celeste]

ps, if your kitchen cost in the 2-3k brakcket and you got your bathroom done also (totally digressing here) how much did that cost? :) i was budgeting in the 4-5 for kitchen ... if i can do it for much less i will be much closer to a bathroom reno :) now THATS exciting!


The total budget for the apartment was 7k - I do everything except plumb and elec.

bathroom total gut - new toilet / shower screen / taps / vanity / rails

Here are some more pics. B4 and after

Celeste

[Aangelique1611]

do you have trady qualifications? where did you learn to do all the stuff? the bathroom looks tops! (from what i can c) ... i have a total of just over 8k for my reno for which i want to paint (maybe 500-1k i estimate buy the time i buy brushes and drop sheets etc) do built ins (ikea will do for $1,500) so im left just under 7 ... so u ripped tiles off bathroom walls, re water proofed, retiled, got the plumber in to sort out connections in bathroom then put in hardward and connected up all on your own ? did u do any courses or have someone instructing you on what to do? ps. again, looks fantastic! bet you do alright on the resale! :)

[celeste]

do you have trady qualifications? where did you learn to do all the stuff? the bathroom looks tops! (from what i can c) ... i have a total of just over 8k for my reno for which i want to paint (maybe 500-1k i estimate buy the time i buy brushes and drop sheets etc) do built ins (ikea will do for $1,500) so im left just under 7 ... so u ripped tiles off bathroom walls, re water proofed, retiled, got the plumber in to sort out connections in bathroom then put in hardward and connected up all on your own ? did u do any courses or have someone instructing you on what to do? ps. again, looks fantastic! bet you do alright on the resale! :)

1. the bench instead of dining table - the apartment block has a lot of oldies and it was ground floor. so I thought it would be better access for wheel chairs / walker frames etc. Oh and I thought it would look good - and I was limited because of the stupid door - it opened from the wall in, unlike next door which open the other way leaving the wall free to put cupboards etc.

2. No qualifications - just beleive I can do anything if I want (mum taught me this) read lots - love books, you can find anything in a book - tho internet has taken over a bit. You can find anything on the internet.:2tsup:

This is a great site for info.:2tsup:

My late hubby was an all round carpenter and we built our own house (all of it) man that was a lot of work - so he taught me lots. Mind there was still a bit to do when he died and I finished it. It took a while tho. had a little help with cornices (you can do these onyour own) and the plaster floats / arctraves/door frames and the solid jarrah capping on the kitchen/hanging doors - otherwise I did the rest.

You will find most tradies etc. will pass on info if you ask and the blokes down the tool shop we're great help with tools etc. and I find I get a trady in once and watch very carefully.

I will be doing this on the 2 duplex - get 1 front professionally reticed and do the rest myself. get the front and back doors hung and watch very carefully, so I can hang the other about 15 my self etc.

look/listen/learn.

drop me some photos and detailed plans - mark pwr /water etc and I will help you sort it all out - a photo of inside the sink cabinet so I can see the plumbing - and some photo of the bathroom.

Celeste

[Aangelique1611]

very cool! thanks so much for all your time and info ... yeah the guy at the tool shop as all "you can do it!" and i was a little scared of him hahaha but i had thought of having a shot at it myself ... scared it might look budget basement thats all. might do a tiling course before i attack the bathroom but might try to do the back splash myself as a trial run ...
congrats again on such a great job! will be in touch :)

[Just George]

Do you windows go to the floor?
Have you thought about a bench on wheels that can be moved aroud to where you need it? This would give you the extra bench space you NEED.

[Just George]

Call your local TAFE college, ask to be put through to the area that trains the cabinetmakers. Ask the teachers if they know of an apprentice that would be willing to and is able to do a kitchen for you. Some apprentices can do jobs on the side and would be a lot cheaper than a cabinetmaking business. They have the skills to do it too.

[Just George]

somewhere between 70 and 82 ... too low for dryer if under bench but fine if on wall.




Is this centimetres of millimetres? If it's cm, wack in a low set of narrow cupboards that you put some drawers into.