staggered nails essential on decking fixed to hwd joists?

[russ34]

very hard to get neat straight lines with the staggered pattern. surely the old straight line nailing will not split the joist and can be relied upon to hold the decking down well with sensible pre drilling usuing hand driven screw shank gals?

[Spelunx]

very hard to get neat straight lines with the staggered pattern. surely the old straight line nailing will not split the joist and can be relied upon to hold the decking down well with sensible pre drilling usuing hand driven screw shank gals?


I got a piece of ply-wood and used it as a template to pre-drill. Perfect nail placement every time.

[Bleedin Thumb]

I always use a straight line, I had never thought about staggering the nails - which probably makes sense but I tend to use Treated Pine joists that probably are less likely to split than seasoned HW.
Come to think about it I have never seen nails staggered as you describe.

You learn something new everyday.

[Honorary Bloke]

I'm with Bleedin' on this one, staggered nails would look like shyte. :oo:

[joe greiner]

Straight down the middle would be less likely to blow out one side, and most likely far enough apart to prevent interaction anyway.

Joe

[Spelunx]

I'm with Bleedin' on this one, staggered nails would look like shyte. :oo:


I beg to differ. I did staggered nails, and I think it looks great, and it makes it less likely that the joist will split in the future.


You end up with a pattern like this:
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.
.
.

Then on the joins you get:


. .



. .
And if you make the template the same width as your joist, it is impossible to split the edge.

I can't get the spacing right, but I hope you get the general idea. If not, I will do a better example and attached it.

[Bleedin Thumb]

Spelunx, Are you only placing one nail per decking board as it crosses a joist ?

[silentC]

In answer to the question "are they essential" the answer is clearly "no they are not". Whether you do or not is up to you.

Personally, I've never seen it done that way, but then I don't usually walk around with my nose glued to the ground (although it's surprising what you pick up if you do). I think I'd rather have my nails in the middle of the joist than too near the edge because, unless the grain is consistently straight, you could end up splitting off to the side.

I follow the theory, in that having the nails in line can introduce a split, but you can't really get away from having nails in line, all you are doing is doubling the distance between them.

In any case, if you pre-drill, then you really shouldn't have a problem.

[Spelunx]

Spelunx, Are you only placing one nail per decking board as it crosses a joist ?

No. I am crap at drawing, but hey, I'll do my best!!:D


The first picture represents the mid-deck nailing pattern, ie two nails, spaced roughly 15-20mm apart, using 60mm+ joists. So down the joist, you get:
.

.
.
.

and so one. (picture the above as two decking boards going horizontally)


The ends, I used the same template, just turned it over after pre-drilling the first two holes, so the nails stayed the same distance apart.
. .



. .

Picture the above nailing pattern with two boards butt-joined against each other.

I hope this makes sense!

:C

[mic-d]

I've seen plenty of decks nailed straight and the joists have split, it's like driving a wedge into the timber. You can nail in a straight line if you skew each nail in alternate directions so it effectively takes two different lines into the joist.

Cheers
Michael

[Bleedin Thumb]

Thanks Spelunx I get the drift, but the stagger on 65mm decking over a 50mm joist would be so minimal that I think the perceived advantage would be out weighed by the untidiness of having two lines.

Also how you nail your boards when they butt join would be a break in the pattern and have the effect of drawing your eye to the join which IMHO is undesirable.

Have said all that, it all comes down to personal taste so if someone wants to stagger their nails go for it.:2tsup: :)

[strangerep]

Thanks Spelunx I get the drift, but the stagger on 65mm decking over a 50mm joist would be so minimal that I think the perceived advantage would be out weighed by the untidiness of having two lines.

Also how you nail your boards when they butt join would be a break in the pattern and have the effect of drawing your eye to the join which IMHO is undesirable.

Have said all that, it all comes down to personal taste so if someone wants to stagger their nails go for it.:2tsup: :)

Having spent the past couple of years gradually demolishing and
reconstructing a poorly built deck, I offer my $0.02 worth...

The original nails were in-line (and had too-small heads). They were
rusted even though originally gal and installed a mere 10 years
before. The old hardwood joists were indeed very badly split by having
the nails in-line. I.e: the splits were nail-to-nail, often extending quite a
long way along the joist - following the nailing line. I daresay it would have
been better if the holes had been pre-drilled rather than simply gunned,
but I guess the previous owner was looking for the cheapest price.
This was all made a lot worse by not having any kind of protection
along the top of the joists (flashing, or that newer moulded plastic
cover stuff). That meant rainwater could remain for long periods
down in the splits, rotting the timber much too quickly. All in all, the
joists were in really bad shape, compared to some other bits (23 yrs old!)
which did indeed have flashing on top - those had no rot or other
degradation whatsoever along the top. I discarded the old rotted
joists as firewood.

The new deck uses turpentine decking over tallowwood joists, secured
by staggered stainless steel screws (i.e: everything is pre-drilled,
counterbored, and countersunk). I used a template (as someone else
mentioned) to place the screwholes in exactly the same positions along
each joist. It looks fine, even more so as successive coats of decking oil
gradually de-emphasize the screws relative to the boards.

On a 45mm joist, staggering the screws about 5mm off-centre gives
10mm spacing between screws, which is enough, yet still
keeps them a long way in from the side of the joist. Also, using a
slight inward dovetailing (about 5 deg off the vertical), means that the
bottoms of the screws go even further into the joist. The dovetailing is
unnoticeable on the deck surface.

Regarding the ends of boards: careful pre-drilling and counterboring
is essential. A slightly stronger dovetailing can be used to place the top of the
screw a bit further in along the board, but still grip a substantial amount of
joist below. It's also important not to over-tighten the end-board screws,
as I found out the hard way. :-

HTH.

[dan76n]

I staggered the nails as I was old it would reduce joist splitting but I really dont know if it would make that much diffence, anyway I must say I like the look of it so im happy, here is a link to a picture of mine.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=46016

[UteMad]

Straight nailing is pretty much the done thing today with treated joists
A because customers won't accept staggered
B treated pine doesn't split like Hardwood
C straight is quicker and therefore cheaper
D when people started staggered they were using 50mm bullet head nails and not todays dektites

www.dialadeck.com.au (http://www.dialadeck.com.au)


utemad

[bpj1968]

As with Strangerep i replaced an old deck of hardwood on hard wood joists, about 20 years old. It was straight nailed and the timber had split.

on the new deck i used staggered. one reason was that the new joists (TP) were not butt jointed over the bearer but overlapped beside each other, just to be extra safe. that was because of the 4 metre span and being about 2.5 metres above the ground. That way the change in line is not as noticable as a straight line of nails would be.

It's amazing though how many people have noticed the staggered nails.