Plumbing and Building Queries????? S.A.

[bricks]

Hello Im a Master Plumber and Master Builder In South Australia What do you want to know!!!!!!

I only do plumbing i do not build houses ( just to clear that up)

Im new here just got on for a sticky beak ( i build guitars in my spare time).

After spending the better part of two night sessions in this forum i have decided to offer this thread as a place where you can ask me any questions about building and plumbing

"what" i hear you say " for free"
yes for free because........

Heaps of people on here are telling other people to do things which may cost them heaps of money when it all goes wrong or worse kill them.

If you shouldnt be doing it, i will tell you.
I will also give tips on how to cut down the costs of hiring a tradesman and get the job done right.

I know some blokes are just going to do it, right way or wrong way.

IT IS ILLEGAL FOR ANY UNQUALIFIED PERSON TO DO PLUMBING OR BUILDING WORKS, I WILL ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS BUT ACCEPT NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE CONSEQUENCES!

[pawnhead]

What do you want to know!!!!!!Someone stole my toilet. I called the police and showed them the hole where it used to be and they started looking into it, but they said they had nothing to go on, and neither have I.

What should I do?

edit: - Oh, and how many plumbers does it take to change a light bulb, and why do they charge so much for it?

[rsser]

Boom tish John!

Thanks for the offer Rhett. V. kind of you.

[bricks]

edit: - Oh, and how many plumbers does it take to change a light bulb, and why do they charge so much for it?

going with your theme pawnhead, id say theres nothing wrong with your lightbulb, but you've probably destroyed half your house tryin to fix it yourself before you rang me, then your mate came round and broke your oven in the process and then your father inlaw tried hittin it with a hammer and ........

Boy its gonna cost you.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

People seriously ring me and say " ive tried to fix ( insert here) and now it doing ( insert here ) how much for you to come around....

If you dont know what your doing dont touch it, in my expirience it will cost you more.

[OBBob]

bricks ... like you say plumbing and electrical etc. shouldn't be touched if you aren't qualified, you will find that empahised on this site.

It isn't illegal in Vic to do your own building works.

I have made plenty of mistakes on various projects and have had to fix them ... but generally the next time around its been better. So far I wouldn't trade in that experience.

I think a lot of us are here because we want to learn and get our hands dirty our selves ... it would be great if you can provide some good input.

[silentC]

A 26 year old who knows it all! Who would have thought :rolleyes:

[Bleedin Thumb]

Yeah , best to chill a bit Bricks, your imput is welcome but try to come across less as if you know more that every one else. There is a lot of experience floating around here.
The beauty of this forum is that besides getting a bit of satisfaction from inparting your experience and knowledge you actually can learn a hell of a lot.

[ausdesign]

Bricks if i'm on tank water - not hooked up to a reticulated system - can I install, alter, or do whatever to the hot/cold pipes in my home as a DIYer.

[echnidna]

Bricks if i'm on tank water - not hooked up to a reticulated system - can I install, alter, or do whatever to the hot/cold pipes in my home as a DIYer.

and on a similar vein,

If my house is totally solar electric and I'm not connected to the grid can I do my own diy electrical work?

[rsser]

A 26 year old who knows it all! Who would have thought :rolleyes:

Bricks offered initially to provide advice at the end of a useful contribution he made in the Grey Water thread; worth a read.

[silentC]

I'm not saying he knows nothing. It's all the "here I am to save the day" stuff I object to. Like we're all a bunch of idiots who need someone like him to come along and set us all straight.

But go for it, Bricks mate, don't mind me. I'm just a cranky old @#%&. Good on you for offering up your services. Just try not to be so patronising in future and you'll get on fine...

[ozwinner]

Ok, I cant hold back anymore.
26 and already a Master Plumber.

I have been laying bricks for 36 years, and only now do I consider myself to be a Master Bricklayer.

Al :)

[ausdesign]

Aw . . . . come on Al. Nobody else thinks that :D

[bricks]

Aus Design, if your on tank, you probably need a council health inspector to ok it.
Echidna, the office of the technical regulator covers electricity and gas, my guess is they would need to saftey check your work.
ozwinner, I have compleated all technical and practical requirements of being a master plumber and builder in south australia, yes im only 26.
4 years of night school three times a week, ive put the hard yards in.

This post was intended for people who will do their own work regardless of the rules or laws ( yes they exist) and i will give advice where needed, sorry if ive upset anyone. My qualifications were included as so people may trust that i do know what im doing, no one has to listen to me, I have read some dodgy advice here and unsuspecting diyers may use that advice and get into trouble.

My advice is always to use qualified tradesman, If you wont then i can point you in the right direction at your own peril.

People who genuinely want to ask a question are welcome to do it here as well as other threads.

[johnc]

Bricks,

I am sure that many will appreciate your offer, don't mind the grumpy responses they are just letting you know that you are new around here. Don't be afraid to get the feel of the forum before you get too worried about the responses, they're just pulling your chain..

John.

[DavidG]

and on a similar vein,

If my house is totally solar electric and I'm not connected to the grid can I do my own diy electrical work?
Yes! / No!
Yes if you keep it all low voltage.
No if you use 240 volts
ie You can wire from the batteries to the 240v inverter but from there on you can not.

[ozwinner]

4 years of night school three times a week, ive put the hard yards in.



OK, maybe Im wrong as 4 years is a hell of a long time.

Al :)

[Tools]

what is the difference between a plumber and a master plumber?

[pawnhead]

what is the difference between a plumber and a master plumber?I think we all know that it's the same as the difference between a builder and a master builder, but we oughta lay off him, he's just a kid.:wink:

[ozwinner]

what is the difference between a plumber and a master plumber?

One does it more often than the other?

Al :)

[Groggy]

I am about to replace my fridge with a unit with an icemaker that requires a water source. The wall it backs onto does not have pipes in it and I need to splice into the copper pipe in the ceiling that feeds the evaporative cooler.

Since the pipe is sitting over a bearer wall, oven, fridge and cabinets I figure it is the worst place in the house for a potential leak. I had thought that a copper join would need a proper soldered joint (not the pre soldered joins which I don't trust).

I have tried to get a plumber but no-one wants the job (even though the cladding is off the wall, the holes are drilled in the wall already and the manhole is right there). It seems there is simply not enough money in it for them. I don't want to risk doing it myself unless I have to. However, I recently heard about flexible pipe being used. How easy is it to use and do this yourself, and how would I splice into the copper pipe in the roof?

[bricks]

Its not hard, taking all the stuff of the wall is a good way to save money. Some Tradies wont take on jobs that you have started, it often ends up costing us money, really.
Ring a plumber out the back of your local paper, one of the ones who dont have big ad budgets, dont tell them you have started the job just tell them you need them to come round and install an another water point in the kitchenwall. if they dont know youve started the might be more inclined to come around. The plastic pipe is easy and cheap but its still going to cost you money prob $200-250.

Do you have water pipes under the sink for a tap at all? coz if you do you could tap into these and run the pipe in the cupboard.

[pawnhead]

However, I recently heard about flexible pipe being used. How easy is it to use and do this yourself, and how would I splice into the copper pipe in the roof?I'm no plumber, and this is bricksies thread, but I'd just buy the bits of copper & brass, and a spanner, and you could do it for under $100 I reckon.

All you need is a tee (http://www.duralirrigation.com.au/onlinestore/index.cfm?NavigationID=42), some nipples (http://www.duralirrigation.com.au/onlinestore/index.cfm?NavigationID=41) (possibly a reducer nipple), some kinkos and olives (http://www.duralirrigation.com.au/onlinestore/index.cfm?NavigationID=40), maybe an elbow (http://www.duralirrigation.com.au/onlinestore/index.cfm?NavigationID=39) or two, and a bit of pipe (http://www.duralirrigation.com.au/onlinestore/index.cfm?NavigationID=62), some thread tape (http://www.duralirrigation.com.au/onlinestore/index.cfm?NavigationID=300), then grab a spanner and Bob's your uncle. :wink:

[bricks]

If the pipe runs in the cupboard Groggy you can do it that way, not good to have threaded joins behind a wall where you cant get to them. Its not allowed in the S.A. plumbing code, only welds or full pipe.

[pawnhead]

Well he could just have the one tee that's accessible in the roof, then buy a bending spring (http://www.plumberschoice.com.au/page/shop/browse/a/category/e/Tubing_tubebenders) and some soft copper pipe to get it to bend out of the wall where his fridge is. :wink:

[Groggy]

Its not hard, taking all the stuff of the wall is a good way to save money. The wall is open. It would be like installing into a new home at framing stage except for the ceiling.


Some Tradies wont take on jobs that you have started, it often ends up costing us money, really.Not this job, all the dirty work is done and I have not touched the plumbing at all.


Ring a plumber out the back of your local paper, one of the ones who dont have big ad budgets, dont tell them you have started the job just tell them you need them to come round and install an another water point in the kitchenwall.I can't get one. The job is too small they say. We have also tried the service companies that boast "no job too small".


if they dont know youve started the might be more inclined to come around. That hasn't really been an issue yet.


The plastic pipe is easy and cheap but its still going to cost you money prob $200-250. for a join onto copper pipe and about 5m of pipe max? The total run is 2.5m across the roof to the wall, then down the wall about 2m. Straight run, uncomplicated. I figure one "T" and two elbows plus a connector/tap of some sort and some saddles.


Do you have water pipes under the sink for a tap at all? coz if you do you could tap into these and run the pipe in the cupboard. The wall in question forms part of a large island. There is no way to feed a pipe across the floor.

[bricks]

CREDIT TO PAWNY

Thats a pretty decent solution Pawny, the pipe wont look that good out the wall but it will be hidden by a fridge,

Basically Groggy, its cheap and simple, if you go to a plumbing shop youll probably have to buy a big roll, so go to a hardware store and buy by the meter ( youll only need 3 or 4). At mitre ten in adleaide they have brass 15mm tees with the kincos already in them, just make sure you work out what size the pipe in the ceiling is.
When you turn off the water and drain it out through the tap leave the tap open, that way when you cut the pipe the rest of the water airlocked in the pipe will drain out too.

When you do your kincos at the end, do them up as tight as you possibly can (*&^*&%^ ) tight. They can slide off the pipe if the pressure fluctuates in your street.
Most fridges i have seen use a thin plastic pipe ( about 5mm round) for the final connection if yours had these remember- normally they dont come undone if you mess up the connection 1 time only use.

If your fridge has an evaporative cooler does it also need a drain for condensate like an air-conditioner. I'm assuming you have the installation instructions with the fridge.

CREDIT TO PAWNY ON THIS ONE

[Groggy]

To clarify a little. I could do this myself fairly easily, all the hard work is done. The bit that worries me is the join in the roof. As I said earlier, if I get a leak up there I'm stuffed, it is the worst possible location to have a leak and would cause major damage and hassle.

I want the joint up there to be bulletproof and I can't guarantee that. The other joints I am less concerned about.

The last time I worked on the plumbing here was in the kitchen. Every time I fixed a problem the joint behind it gave way. This happened to all the joints on the hot and cold taps under the kitchen sink, all the way back to the wall, and included the fittings for the dishwasher. Incidentally, this is why I don't like the presoldered fittings.

I'd rather not trust the workmanship up there and have someone with insurance and a good knowledge of soldering working on it.

[echnidna]

Yes! / No!
Yes if you keep it all low voltage.
No if you use 240 volts
ie You can wire from the batteries to the 240v inverter but from there on you can not.

David :wink:

[pawnhead]

Thats a pretty decent solution Pawny, the pipe wont look that good out the wall but it will be hidden by a fridge, Get a chrome flange to go around the pipe before you connect the fridge. Max bond it to the wall.

My place is full of kinkos and olives and thread tape. Nothing has ever leaked. Like bricksie say's do the nuts up really tight. I believe you can get brass (or they may be copper?) olives that are better than the nylon ones as well.

[Groggy]

If you reckon kinkos in a tee won't leak I'll give it a go, but I'm a bit uneasy since it is in the ceiling.

The evaporative cooler I mentioned is in the roof. It is the house cooling system and not part of the fridge.

Thanks for the advice guys.

[bricks]

To clarify a little. I could do this myself fairly easily, all the hard work is done. The bit that worries me is the join in the roof. ...... would cause major damage and hassle.

I want the joint up there to be bulletproof and I can't guarantee that.

The last time I worked on the plumbing here was in the kitchen. Every time I fixed a problem the joint behind it gave way. This happened to all the joints on the hot and cold taps under the kitchen sink, all the way back to the wall, and included the fittings for the dishwasher. Incidentally, this is why I don't like the presoldered fittings.

I'd rather not trust the workmanship up there and have someone with insurance and a good knowledge of soldering working on it.

Youve basically hit the nail on the head there Groggy,
If your not confident with what your doing then dont do it, if its not done properly then it usually costs more.

As for tradies and job too small. The thing i was saying about you starting the job, I dont do them either, and i normally use the excuse that im too busy, because most times i do those types of jobs they end up as a complete headache trying to fix a problem and i have to charge buket loads of cash. Why dont i tell you the truth, .. coz i dont wanna have argument about how hard the job is or isnt, you can't convince me im not too busy..

I still rekon the back of your local paper is the best place to get plumbers for small jobs. In adelaide it is the messenger newspaper..

That said if your not confident, seriously dont do it.

[bricks]

If you reckon kinkos in a tee won't leak I'll give it a go, but I'm a bit uneasy since it is in the ceiling.



If your not Confident dont do it..

Read your installation manual to see if you need to put a water filter in before the fridge!

I would'nt use kinkos in the roof or walls or a house myself, it is a solution but kinco's use rubber/plastic to seal. Rubber and plastic breakdown over time, it will eventually leak IMO. Maybe try harder to get a plumber?

[Groggy]

Thanks, some good tips and things to consider.

[silentC]

You can get copper olives for Kinkos, some brands come with them. You just have to watch you don't scratch the pipe or the olive when you put them on because a small scratch can make them leak. The nylon olives deform better and block up any little hollows.

[Bleedin Thumb]

I for one don't trust Kinkos either, copper or nylon. I think that the chances of developing a leak in a soldered pipe once it has been pressure tested is a lot less that with a kinko fitting.

Groggy if your fittings were giving way back from the fitting you were working on it sounds to me that:-

1. The joins are not up to scratch or
2. You are placing a hell of a lot of movement and pressure on the pipe that your working on.
Either way it shouldn't happen.

But back to my first point I would vote soldered joint over kinko in a wall/ceiling anyday.

I'm not a plumber but do all my own, Easy Peasy Japaneasy as my kid would say.

EDIT I dont like the presoldered fitting either I prefer to see the solder getting drawn into the joint

[silentC]

Yup. My old man is a plumber and he likes the York fittings because it means he doesn't have to drag the oxy out. But there's no way he'd put one in a wall.

Either uses soft pipe, or silver soldered bends.

[pawnhead]

I suppose it depends on how much of a tight @rse you are, and they don't come tighter than mine. I used to soft solder all my stuff, but my porta-gas bottle is so rusty now that I can't get it filled. :(
I'll be building a new bathroom here eventually, and I'll probably just use compression fittings under the floor, and come straight up through the bottom of my vanity instead of going through the wall. I'll get a plumber mate to silver solder up a shower, and bath assembly so I can just drop it in place and use compression fittings and soft annealed piping under the floor.
So long as everything is done up tight, and it's all saddled up to stop vibration and water hammer, and it's pressure tested, then it won't leak, and I'll save myself a small fortune.

I'd rather save up for my own yacht than buy my plumber one of his own. :D

[bricks]

Pawny, you seem like a guy with a bit of nouse,
Which means i think youd have the ability to do a proper job out of plastic, if you rented the crimpers ( dont know where from tho sorry). It probably wont save you money but it would be a better job in the end IMO.
All you'd have to weld is a tee for hot and cold with a m/ion thread to connect to. Plastics not good in the sun tho.

I also avoid going under the floor for anything even in copper, but when i do i use 25 or 32 mm electrical conduit with the long radius bends and push the pipe through after, that way if the pipe is damaged, or starts leaking you can get to it comparitivly easier by replacing it compleatly. No jackhammers.

[pawnhead]

You spend your life in the game and you pick up how to do just about anything just by watching the pros and asking a few questions. That plastic looks pretty simple but I've never seen it used. They ought to let unlicensed owner builders do their own plumbing with that stuff. I reckon it looks pretty fool proof if you read a manual.
Drainage is a different matter though. That's where the health risk lies and there's a bit more nous in getting that right with all the regs. Although I suppose if you sling the inspector a nice enough backhander you'll get an easy ride. :wink:
I've got a bit to do here, turning the original bathroom into an ensuite, and building a new one in the dining room, moving the laundry into a kitchen cupboard, and moving the water heater outside. Eventually getting instantaneous gas on before I renovate the kitchen with new oven/stove, but I'll get my plumber mate to do that after I dig the trenches. I hope the main is on my side of the street so I don't have to tunnel.
I've got a good half metre under the house so access isn't a problem for the water. I might just buy a new porta gas for soft soldering since the fittings are heaps cheaper. Can you put soft soldered joints in a wall?
The council probably would have lost the plans for this place anyway. I've been here for thirty years and they've been sacked a couple of times since then.:U

[bricks]

You spend your life in the game and you pick up how to do just about anything just by watching the pros and asking a few questions. That plastic looks pretty simple but I've never seen it used. They ought to let unlicensed owner builders do their own plumbing with that stuff. I reckon it looks pretty fool proof if you read a manual.
:wink:
I hope the main is on my side of the street so I don't have to tunnel.
I've got a good half metre under the house so access isn't a problem for the water. I might just buy a new porta gas for soft soldering since the fittings are heaps cheaper. Can you put soft soldered joints in a wall?
:U

Mate only the water/sewer/and gas authority can dig up roads and connect services in S.A. You should have connection points at the boundary to your property ( normally water meter, gas meter sewer Inspection point) if you dig into the road id say your in trouble.
Soft solder im assuming is welded copper joins, pretty sure thats all your allowed to put in walls unless its a part of a manufactured fitting. Check you local.
Make sure you comply with all back flow requirements.
In S.A. if your renevation is more than 50 square meters you have to install expensive water saving devices also so check your local rules.

[celeste]

Hi groggy

I was told the best way to get a tradie for a small job is -
Hop in the car drive to the nearest new estate with lots of building happening, park the car, hop out and go and ask if any one wants a cashie. Oh take 1/2 doz beers.

I bet you will find a 3rd of 4th year apprentice who will do it on the week end or after work.:2tsup:

Celeste

[celeste]

Hi all

A question for the master plumber - is it legal for me to disconnect all the tapes and sinks etc ready for the plumber to move and or reconnect the new gear?

Can you also, tell me what order do you use when installing a bath with a brick hob.

Celeste

[pharmaboy2]

no-one mentioned kemblas Kwik fittings yet

http://www.kembla.com.au/plum_kwikfit.html

easy peasy, fine for behind wall use, and re-useable, reconnectable - best find I ever made in a hardware store!

[pawnhead]

Mate only the water/sewer/and gas authority can dig up roads and connect services in S.A. You should have connection points at the boundary to your property ( normally water meter, gas meter sewer Inspection point) if you dig into the road id say your in trouble.I'm not talking about digging up the road. I'm talking about getting a dude in with a small hydraulic ram to tunnel under it.
Guided boring was first introduced into the industry in 1991. Guided boring machines
or directional rod pushers were used mainly for under-road crossings for the
telecommunications, gas and water industry for conduit installation typically in the range of 20mm diameter to 150mm diameter
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:-nDgTbljfFIJ:euskills.netxtra.net/download.php%3Fid%3D86+hydraulic+ram+tunneling+under+a+road+for+gas+supply&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=22&gl=au (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:-nDgTbljfFIJ:euskills.netxtra.net/download.php%3Fid%3D86+hydraulic+ram+tunneling+under+a+road+for+gas+supply&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=22&gl=au) There was a guy doing that next door a while back, although I can't remember what was being installed. It took him half a day to get across the road.
I thought the plumber was supposed to do all the work apart from tapping the main and installing a cock?

Soft solder im assuming is welded copper joins, pretty sure thats all your allowed to put in walls unless its a part of a manufactured fitting. Check you local.I'm talking about the stuff that comes in big sticks that draws after heating the fitting with a porta gas. Those skinny sticks the plumbers use won't draw unless you put more heat in, i.e. oxy torch. I suppose I could hire one when I've got all the joints sorted out, but a new porta gas would probably cost the same.

Make sure you comply with all back flow requirements.Well I've installed a new charged gully out the back, that's 100mm below FFL, and there's an existing gully out the front that's a good 1.5 metres below FFL. Backflow won't be a problem.

In S.A. if your renevation is more than 50 square meters you have to install expensive water saving devices also so check your local rules.I don't really care, and no one else will. It was like that before I moved in. I just re-tiled the joint is all I did. Honest Injun guvna. :wink:

[pawnhead]

no-one mentioned kemblas Kwik fittings yet

http://www.kembla.com.au/plum_kwikfit.html

easy peasy, fine for behind wall use, and re-useable, reconnectable - best find I ever made in a hardware store!Wow, that looks pretty cool alright. I wonder how they work, and how you get them apart again. :?
Would sure make my job a lot easier so long as they don't cost the Earth.

[ozwinner]

This is what all plumbers dread, thats why they make it so you must have a licence to do the job.

With all these new easy push together fittings, life is so much easier for the DIYer.

Al :2tsup:

[Bleedin Thumb]

It may be easier but hell you don't get to play with the pretty flame.

I built a water feature last year with push on fittings - plastic pipes the bloody thing failed after 3 months and I had to demolish and rebuild the thing to replace one elbow. Actually It was only about 3 hrs work but that is three hours I could have spent praying at church or doing other things

[pharmaboy2]

Wow, that looks pretty cool alright. I wonder how they work, and how you get them apart again. :?
Would sure make my job a lot easier so long as they don't cost the Earth.

they have a little clip that pushes in to create the seal which when removed (takes 2 seconds max) allows the fitting to be removed. I'm from Newcastle which has a reputation for high water pressure, and they have all worked a treat - seems to work by the more pressure there is, the tighter the seal gets - whats that joke about a penguin and blowing a seal? :D

They are between $5 and 10 each fitting. As Ozwinner notes, plumbers hate them - I asked a plumbing place about them, and the guy said no way was he displaying them, or promoting them, and Bunnings dont seem to deal with kembla at all (or Kembla pipe wont deal with Bunnings perhaps), so you are left with the home Hardware chain pretty much, who usually stock a fair bit of plumbing stuff.

[bricks]

Pawny in S.A. plumbers, builders, etc are only allowed to work up till the boundary of a property. Roads, footpaths, water mains, sewer mains are publicly owned infastructure, I dont think anyone will let you touch it, digging in roads requires proper certification, I dont have it. As far as i know only government water authority contractors are allowed to do it anywhere in this country.
The back flow i was talking about was in your water supply not sewer, you need to ensure nothing from your water supply can end up in the town water supply.

Celeste Theres nothing stopping you from turning off your water supply and going hulk hogan on you own stuff. But id tee it up with the plumber, ask him to come out first and show you anything he doesnt want you to touch, Get him to start on monday and spend your weekend ripping it out yourself tiles and all , youll save the two days labour for the plumber.

Id rather use Kinco's everywhere than one push fit fitting, they are absolute rubbish.!!!!

[Eddie Jones]

A 26 year old who knows it all! Who would have thought :rolleyes:

Whereas, of course, a 41 year old REALLY knows it all, eh?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Now, when yer get to be 60........:D :D :D

[DavidG]

Now, when yer get to be 60........:D :D :D

You have forgotten it all.
Now what were we talking about?:roll:

[Bleedin Thumb]

Pipe down you young wipper snappers I'm trying to get my rest....

Hey did you like that pipe down .... get it.

I may be old but....I......what was i going to say?

[Tools]

[quote=bricks;459366] Roads, footpaths, water mains, sewer mains are publicly owned infastructure, I dont think anyone will let you touch it, digging in roads requires proper certification, I dont have it. As far as i know only government water authority contractors are allowed to do it anywhere in this country.
It is different in victoria.Anyone can dig up the footpath or road after obtaining a road opening permit.Most councils (but not all) require proof of public liability ,and possibly a traffic management plan as well before they will issue the permit.The tapping of water mains needs to be done by the authority, but stormwater tappings can be done by anyone.

Tools

[pawnhead]

Can you also, tell me what order do you use when installing a bath with a brick hob.You have to connect the drainage and bed the bath in first, then lay the brickwork around it. If it's framed up in timber then you can build the frame first (with the bath in place), and bed it in before you line the framework.

[bricks]

Tools youll notice i didnt include stormwater in the mix but,,, the storm water infastructure is still publicly owned. In S.A. you can do stormwater under a building liscence, permit, or owner builders can too (average joe's) but in S.A. if you have stormwater in the street you need to aplly to the relevant authority for a connection on your property same as 4 sewer/water and gas.

Just as an example, what if pawny tunnels under the road, ( is he still going to block the road off for OH&S), How does the relevant authority know pawny knows which pipe is storm water ( they not labeled), what happens when pawny hits power, telstra, foxtel, fibreoptic, sewer, fire ect. As a plumber i have done stormwater connections as part of major building works, the relevant authority always help out with this in terms of technical support and they always inspect it. Roads need to be tested to make sure of load ratings compaction etc.

Plus roads are a structural item, they need to be engineered and certified as both safe to protect the services within and adequate for the loads of cars, and at least a 12 ton firetruck.

Yes you may be able to do your own stormwater, Its not plumbing, but i have a very difficult time believing that any person at alll can connect to stormwater mains. the only thing in S.A. you can do is put your stormwater into the gutter and therefore go across footpaths to do it, that's it thats all i can do.
What happens if pawnys connection method means the connections in front of his are no longer working, the cost to investigate and fix would probably be more than pawny you and I could come up with between us.

[pawnhead]

What happens if pawnys connection method means the connections in front of his are no longer working, the cost to investigate and fix would probably be more than pawny you and I could come up with between us.A bit of duck tape will fix it.

Didn't you know? You can do just about anything with a roll of duck tape, a can of WD40 and some barbed wire. :wink:

[bricks]

Hi all

A question for the master plumber - is it legal for me to disconnect all the tapes and sinks etc ready for the plumber to move and or reconnect the new gear?

Can you also, tell me what order do you use when installing a bath with a brick hob.

Celeste


Yeah, rip you stuff out it's not illegal, just make sure you tee it up with the plumber first so you dont wreck something. Good way to save money.

Pawnys method above is pretty good. If your using timber make the frame first, youll want about 40 mm minimum of mortar under your bath minimum, use a UFO connector/ bath adaptor. put some bubble wrap in the bath and do the hippy hippy shake for a minute or two this will settle the bath into the mixture nicely, I set the timber low enough that i get villa board and tile under the bath edge. it makes cutting tiles easier.

[bricks]

A bit of duck tape will fix it.

Didn't you know? You can do just about anything with a roll of duck tape, a can of WD40 and some barbed wire. :wink:

Some people genuinly think that way, and your trying to tell me that anyone can mess around with public infastructure.

Tools that is why people arnt allowed to do it.

[pawnhead]

I set the timber low enough that i get villa board and tile under the bath edge. it makes cutting tiles easier.I set the villaboard under, but I try to get the tiles flush with the edge.

[pawnhead]

Some people genuinly think that way, and your trying to tell me that anyone can mess around with public infastructure. I'm just trying to rev you up bricksie. If I put my mattock through a gas line then I'm not going to fix it with duck tape and barbed wire. I promise (fabric gaffa tape is stronger).

[bricks]

I know that pawny but Weve already established that your not an idiot, but that word was created because some people are.

And i just though of a better reason why you cant do anything in the road.
YOU DONT OWN IT!

sewer gas water stormwater connections are yours because you pay for them to be done the correct way ( they are there to be connected to...)

Digging in the road is like digging through your neibours loungroom, you cant do it, and you cant connect onto his sewer line either, that is why your house has a boundary.

[Tools]

Some people genuinly think that way, and your trying to tell me that anyone can mess around with public infastructure.

Tools that is why people arnt allowed to do it.


Maybe not in SA, but as I said, in Victoria you can.

An example of requirements for road openings:

http://www.portphillip.vic.gov.au/road_opening_permit.html
http://www.portphillip.vic.gov.au/road_opening_permit.html

Note page two where it says "A road opening permit is issued when a plumber,builder or someone from the public requires to cut open council assets such as footpath,road or nature strip.Common reasons for road opening permit are:
- water tappings
- stormwater connections
-water main construction
- sewer main construction"

Naturally there are fees and conditions and inspections required, but anyone can do it.


With water tappings, as I also said, the tapping must be done by the authority, but the preparation and excavation is done by others (including beyond the property boundary), be they the plumber,builder,owner,or whoever.

http://www.citywestwater.com.au/about/docs/final_tappings.pdf

Page two talks of the requirements for preparing for the authority.

http://www.citywestwater.com.au/about/docs/final_tappings.pdf

Stormwater tapping are similar.There are permits required, fees and inspections, but anyone can do it.

http://www.bayside.vic.gov.au/roads_storm_water.htmhttp://www.bayside.vic.gov.au/roads_storm_water.htm

New sewer connections are done by the authority or its contractors, who usually also do any excavations.

Tools

[Bleedin Thumb]

I think in NSW you can do it yourself if you have the right qualifications and get the right permits and inspections before backfill.
They certainly make you jump through the hoops to get all the paperwork. I spent 4hrs at a Sydney Water counter once in order to get a permit to drill a main in a footpath!

EDIT I think gas and telecomunications are the only exceptions, they want their own contractors to carry out the work.

[Tools]

Bleeding, I think a lot depends on the council.I got a permit a few weeks ago to run stromwater across a road to a pit,and all they wanted to see was what we wanted to do...no insurances,no traffic management plan.

Tools

[Bleedin Thumb]

Tools that goes up here too. Also the size of the job - you say you want to lower sewer manhole and they insist on doing it themselves but you can do a subdivision and place all the mains in and its not a problem.

Go figure?

[bricks]

Just though id re-inforce what i started this thread for.

People who want to know how to's or tips or what ever.

The legal aspect of this obviously seems to be at least different or in some areas non-existent depending on where you are in this grand country. From now on my response will be "if you cant work out the legal aspect of your job PAY someone who does"!

There has also been a lot of slinging about how tradies feel about home owners diying their projects.
I dont mind, if i did i certainly would'nt give you advice.

You know who i hate, people who carry out businesses without liscences or outside of their liscence, duping unaware people and leaving dogey jobs. Theese people should be strung up and shot...

I ve also noticed some people wish to pick apart my advice and seem for some reason to be hell bent on making me look like a halfwit.
My advise is good, my ideas will work,

YOU SHOULD ALWAYS THOUROGHLY INVESTIGATE ANY ADVICE ESPECIALLY ON AN OPEN FORUM LIKE THE INTERNET.

i started this thread because i though that there was alot of bad info being displayed here, it stands to reason that posters of those ideas will think the same of my ideas. You dont have to listen, you dont have to take my advise,

[bricks]

Thats not directed at you TOOLS,

[Tools]

No problem.I didn't take it that way,just wanted to clarify the situation in victoria.

Tools

[pawnhead]

I ve also noticed some people wish to pick apart my advice and seem for some reason to be hell bent on making me look like a halfwit.Well you may be refering to me, so I'll just add that the only person that can make you look like a halfwit is yourself. I'd give people more credit than to take someone else's word for it. You're judged by what you say and I don't think you're a half wit.

It doesn't matter to me who makes a post. If I believe there's a better way, or if I believe that there's something wrong with the advice that they're giving then I'll say so.

i started this thread because i though that there was alot of bad info being displayed here, Well you should just point it out wherever it is then. I'm sure it would be a benefit to the forums if there's dodgy advice there somewhere. I haven't trawled through your post history, but the only thing I can see you've criticized is my suggestion of using duct tape on a gas pipe. Of course that's dodgy and I wasn't really being serious, although it would stop a leak until the proper authorities could come to fix it.

[journeyman Mick]

......................i started this thread because i though that there was alot of bad info being displayed here...................


Bricks,
don't know if you thought that my advice to use an "O" ring to seal a spout or what ever to a nipple was "bad info", but I'll happily defend it against all comers. I've seen it used by many plumbers, some of which I've worked with, on and off, for many years so I know their work and trust their judgement.

Edit: Bricks, I refer you to this thread:http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=44220
where you say: "Do not use o-rings, washers, or anything else they may wreck your tapware." Please explain how using an "O" ring in the way I suggest will wreck your tap ware and/or any reasons you may have against my suggested use.
Mick

[bricks]

Some people genuinly think that way, and your trying to tell me that anyone can mess around with public infastructure.


How do you convert that to personal criticism?
It's a fact pawny, some people will actually do things like duct tape and wire for a repair.

[bricks]

I'm just trying to rev you up bricksie. If I put my mattock through a gas line then I'm not going to fix it with duck tape and barbed wire. I promise (fabric gaffa tape is stronger).

Is this your normal response when someone criticizes you? sounds like you know exactly how i meant it.

[ozwinner]

Ok everyone, time for a chill pill.

Al :2tsup:

[OBBob]

C'mon this was destined to be a 10 pager from the first post!! :)

[pawnhead]

Ok everyone, time for a chill pill.

Al :2tsup:Well I'm ready to kiss and make up.

How about you bricksie? :kissing:

[ozwinner]

C'mon this was destined to be a 10 pager from the first post!! :)


:roll: I know that. :roll:

Just dont get into a slanging match..

Al :)

[bricks]

Like i said pawny, your definately no an idiot,
Maybe someone could post a real question again and we might get back to what i intended.

No hard feelings pawny you just give me the %$#Ts and i think you know what pushes my buttons.

Kiss Kiss hug hug all that jazz.

[journeyman Mick]

...............Maybe someone could post a real question again and we might get back to what i intended..............

Bricks,
I've posted a real enough question about "O" rings and your aversion to my use of them.

Mick

[felixe]

It doesn't matter to me who makes a post. If I believe there's a better way, or if I believe that there's something wrong with the advice that they're giving then I'll say so.
Well you should just point it out wherever it is then. I'm sure it would be a benefit to the forums if there's dodgy advice there somewhere. I haven't trawled through your post history, but the only thing I can see you've criticized is my suggestion of using duct tape on a gas pipe. Of course that's dodgy and I wasn't really being serious, although it would stop a leak until the proper authorities could come to fix it.


This duct tape idea may not be as "far fetched" as you all would believe. I had a gas leak at my place recently, it was the pipe feeding into our property. I rang energex who came out and verified I had a serious problem. An hour later (seriously) out came an energex crew with a tip truck and an excavator, ready to dig up the front yard.

Luckily I knew where the pipe was from my previous experience in laying ag pipe, so we found it quickly. They cut through the gas pipe while it still had gas in the line and sealed it up with a rag and DUCT TAPE! :oo: - these guys were energex contractors:2tsup: :oo: .

The pressure of the gas blew the rag out of the end of the pipe twice, before they secured it in place with a trusty screwdriver taped into the pipe with the rag :no: :o (like a plug!).

I was watching this in amazement the whole time, but the best part was the guy who came back with their lunch and stood about 6-8 metres from the pipe with a lit ciggie!!!

So in my experience the duct tape works, because if it didn't I wouldn't have the house and the computer to post this story.!!:D :D :D

[bricks]

Bricks,
I've posted a real enough question about "O" rings and your aversion to my use of them.

Mick

Mick, O-rings wil work if put on as you described and if the fittings are in good enough condition.
Here are just some of my problems with them,
IF you overtighten the fitting, you can tear the O-ring
The fittings have to be in good condition and you need 2 flat surfaces that mate together pretty well.
You need to have the right size in your tool box.

However they will produce a clean looking joint, good for inside your bathroom.

Probably better than an O-ring would be a flat rubber washer, they are almost the same but will have a larger surface area to make the seal and im assuming would be harder to tear.

I think thread tape is a better solution because it will work pretty much everywhere you need to seal a thread regardless of condition and size, and if it looks a bit hairy, it can be trimmed with a stanley knife. Ive hav'nt used an o-ring or flat washer that wasnt included as part of the tap, spout etc, and have often had to replace them with tape due to my overtighting them and therefore ripping them.

My preference is, 1 thread tape, 2 flat rubber washer, 3 O-Ring, 4 LOXEAL paste (hard to undo). Hemp is my preffered joint on really big stuff.

:hpydans:

[bricks]

So in my experience the duct tape works, because if it didn't I wouldn't have the house and the computer to post this story.!!:D :D :D

Ive seen crazy stuff like that done in emergencies as well felixe, im assuming that it was fixed soon after?

[Bleedin Thumb]

C'mon this was destined to be a 10 pager from the first post!! :)

Kinda like the Friday thread without the humour and with even less meaning..................But for some strange reason I keep on reading this crap.................... must get a life..................must get a life....

[pawnhead]

No hard feelings pawny you just give me the %$#Ts and i think you know what pushes my buttons. I have that effect on a lot of people. Believe me when I say that I'm not singling you out.

Perhaps I should get a life.


Kiss Kiss hug hug all that jazz.Well I like jazz so maybe we've got something in common.



This duct tape idea may not be as "far fetched" as you all would believe.Yeh, there's not a lot of pressure in a gas line.
Kinda like the Friday thread without the humour and with even less meaning..................But for some strange reason I keep on reading this crap.................... must get a life..................must get a life....It's the unfolding drama that's so addictive. Perhaps we should both just watch Days Of Our Lives instead.

I'm used to another forum where heated debates are often the norm, and it's amusing watching people lose their composure.

As I've said. I should get a life.

[bricks]

I saw Eric Clapton on friday night , Blues and cool.

[pawnhead]

I saw Eric Clapton on friday night , Blues and cool.Ah you like blues as well. Eric Clapton is pretty cool. (So is Richard Clapton) Is he touring at the moment, or is he a mate of yours?

I like your title as well. La-da-dee, la-da-dar. I’ve got that coming in at the moment. Gypsy Woman by Crystal Waters.

Hey, we’re getting on alright now. Believe it or not I stuck up for you just recently. Someone sent me a PM saying “That bricksy’s not even a plumbers @rsehole”, but I stuck up for you and said “Yes he is”.
j/k :wink:

[silentC]

Can I use PEX for my hot and cold water?

:D

[felixe]

You can:2tsup: but its a bugger getting it thru all those little lollies.:wink:

Uh, what?:?

Oh, sorry I thought it was PEZ!!:doh:

Just keeping this one going - only 4 pages to go!:D

[OBBob]

Now look what I've done ...

[bricks]

Can I use PEX for my hot and cold water?

:D


I can not find any leagal or operational reason why you cant use pex for your hot and cold water.

As the fittings and pipe basically is the same for all types of hot and cold water pipe in terms of design, you can always write out a list of items; tees, elbows, joiners etc that you require. Then go to your local plumbing outlet, ask them what most plumbers are using in your area, the should know because they sell the stuff. If you need to identify an existing product, take a good photo with you.

[celeste]

Hi Bricks

Me again, how are you, good I hope. Anyway serious question -

I know how to fix / replace the taps inside the house. But, what do I do to fix the outside taps that are leaking from the top of the casing at the base of the handle? Notice I didn't say thingy or oozy what!:2tsup:

Oh they only leak when the tap is on.

Celeste

[bricks]

If its a cheep tap- you can't fix it just replace it.

Good taps ( still only $20 max)- if its badly rusted then replace
if in good condition;

turn of the water,

unscrew the top half of the tap

hold the top half and turn the tap as though your turning it fully off ( clockwise), eventually you should see a little black O-Ring around the shaft as it screws out.
Pull this off and replace it with the same size ( I think it's a 5/8 O-Ring ) but take it to the local hardware store and match it with a new one.

change the washer while your there.

Put some thread tape around the thread on the top half and screw it back in.

P.S.
-I never change these O-rings for one reason, It's cheaper and easier for me to replace the whole tap.

- when you screw a new top half in, turn the tap as tho your opening it a little so that the new washer isn't damaged as you tighten it up.

[celeste]

Hi Bricks

Thanks for that.:2tsup:

Celeste

[celeste]

Hi Bricks

I have another Q. I may have made a boo boo.

Ok, bathroom had a bath & shower on one side, that whole side of the bathroom was sunk 50-60mm. therefore giving you a shower base of 50mm tiled and the bath low.

I took out the bath and put a new one at the end of the room, took out the shower screen. (and I chickened out using the brick, made a wooden frame for the bath)

Now, I had a sunken section where the new vanity and shower is to go.
I decided to extend the shower waste and fill the whole thing up with cement (cement slab floor) as it was easier than trying to work out the exact measurements for the vanity and allow me to put in a 600mm. I did it yesturday - man mixing 120kg of cement by hand is hard work!!:oo: Note I have made a slope to the shower waste.


I was speaking to girl friend re above last night, when something dawned on me.

I planned to have a new screen made to just sit on the floor, is this LEGAL or do I need to have some sort of base?:?

[bricks]

quick reply: I can't say, it depends on where you live.

Practical answer. No matter where you live It's a good idea to have drainage from the floor area outside your shower. I do not know of anywhere that specifically states you must have separate floorwates for outside ( this doesn't mean it's not true where you live).

Not having drainage to the main floor of your bathroom ( where you drip all over when you get out) is not a good idea.

Having a compleately flat floor is how we do disabled and elderly showers here in S.A also some high rise apartments aswell I have seen done that way, As far as I know it's not illegal anywhere.

Just make sure that water can travel into your shower recess and down the floor waste. maybe have the shower built with a 5mm gap under the door or made with weep holes in the frame. Ive see both of those plenty of times.

[celeste]

Hi Bricks

Thanks for that, :2tsup: I ended up ring a plumber to get advice - apparently all is OK and he said the same as you, to have some sort of access into the shower for the outside water.

Curiously, we built a new house 04 and the ensuite is open to the bedroom (I have a couple of chest high glass block walls at the entrance - added later) the tiler has a row of 1/2 tiles at the entrance that have been kicked up ? He also did this in the shower (the water does not run off propertly pools in the corners rrrrr!) and the powder room??

Is this a new trend or did he muck up the levels?

I am floating 19mm bamboo down the hall, this will leave me with a drop of 9-10mm into the bathroom, so I plan on laying the last 2 rows of floor tiles at the doorl after the bamboo is layed and then lay them kicking them up to match the bamboo.

Does that sound OK??:? I know your not a tiler, but I expect you see what tricks they use.

celeste

[bricks]

Usually I see a peice of tapered marble or hardwood put in the doorway outside the bathroom.
But if you already have the tiles up maybe get some epoxy or nonshrick grout and just add to the falls already there youll need to scabble the concrete to get a good bond but it will feel like a better job to walk on.

[Ashore]

turn of the water,

unscrew the top half of the tap.

Before you do this turn the tap to fully open to take the valve off the seat



hold the top half and turn the tap as though your turning it fully off ( clockwise), eventually you should see a little black O-Ring around the shaft as it screws out.
Pull this off and replace it with the same size ( I think it's a 5/8 O-Ring ) but take it to the local hardware store and match it with a new one.

change the washer while your there.

Put some thread tape around the thread on the top half and screw it back in..
Do not put thread tape on the thread as it is a parallel thread and sealed by the washer , only ever use thread tape on a tapered thread .



- when you screw a new top half in, turn the tap as tho your opening it a little so that the new washer isn't damaged as you tighten it up.
open the tap fully as a little may not clear the seat, (better safe than sorry) and then you are sure you are tighterning down on the washer and not the seat

Rgds