Dual Trade

[cross]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I will finish my electrical and in the mean time continue to learn all i can about refrigeration and do what i need to so i can complete the course in both.

[johnc]

A very sensible approach, goodluck with your trade training.

John.

[cross]

Thanks for the support.

[cross]

Did some more research and the tafe that offers to course only provides block release, meaning either long travel for 3 days straight, or paying for accommodation in the area. And after speaking with my boss i would be required to make up the hours i dont work elsewhere. (turns out trying to futher your education isnt seen has a benifit by the employer :rolleyes:). Not looking good so far.

[Jack E]

I don't know what happened to this thread.
The first post seems to be an answer to preceeding questions which I can't see.:?

From what I can gather you have questions regarding dual trade qualifications.

Namely Electrical / Refrigeration.

I am qualified in both of these and say go for it.:)

Cheers, Jack

[cross]

Jack,

Thanks for the reply, how did you go about getting licenced in both?

[Timmo]

I started a little bit differently.

I was A fitter first back when they were all under 1 hat ie. electrical and mechanical. Shortly after being awarded that trade it was split back into electrical and mechanical again so i went towards the mechanical side.

During that time I had the opportunity to do the refrigeration course at tafe, most of the modules I had recognition of prior learning so that left me only 4 months full time to do.

I was lucky enough to be able to consolidate my time as a fridgey while being employed as a fitter so after 4 years i was then awarded my fridgey trade.

Licensing is no problem when you have the appropriate tickets.

After working as a fitter for a few years, being a fridgey is a dream job.

[cross]

Thanks for the replies,

I have spoken more with my boss, and am still very interested in trying to do the course. I realise there are a few obstacles in the way, but like others have said, you need to make sacrifice if you want to get anywhere.

So at the moment my best option for making up the time spent at tafe would be to forfeit my pay for that day. Also im seeing if the course is available by correspondence, if not i will make arrangements for travel.

I havnt given up just yet. :D

[OBBob]

Hey I'm not really following this thread too well either ... but other things are definately available by corro ... such as electrical engineering? Or business (plenty of tradies could do with that ... whoop, sorry).

Something like eng would really be challenging but it is a huge amount of work.

I may be way off track ... but just a thought.

[cross]

Hey I'm not really following this thread too well either ... but other things are definately available by corro ... such as electrical engineering? Or business (plenty of tradies could do with that ... whoop, sorry).

Something like eng would really be challenging but it is a huge amount of work.

I may be way off track ... but just a thought.

Thanks for the reply obob, engineering is something im considering also.

Did some more calculations and worked out how much money id actually be losing each week and im not sure it would be worth it in the long run, even though i may make it back if i worked for myself, but wouldnt if i continued working for others.

hmm, decisions... lucky ive got about a year left to work out what im going to do. :D

[OBBob]

I guess the problem with eng is the cost also ... great that you are trying to come up with a plan. That already puts you way ahead.

[cross]

Thats true, and i have to look at how useful and practical doing the course would be to me. The place i live now(and want to live for a long time) doesnt have a high or even moderate demand for electrical engineers.

[Jack E]

how did you go about getting licenced in both?
I worked for the government at the time and completed both apprenticeships concurrently.

I have considered engineering but find it painful enough dealingwith the majority of them now, let alone becoming one:D

Like I said before, I missed the start of this post.
Are you just after a change or don't like being a sparky.

There are many aspects to the electrical trade and a change within the trade might be change enough.

Cheers, Jack

[cross]

My Original Post:

Hey everyone,

Just after some advice. Im currently in the 3rd year of my electrical apprenticeship, and am considering doing the refrigeration and air conditioning course once i complete the electrical. My boss has the dual trade and we do both kinds of work. However doing the course would mean i would have to sacrifice holidays, money, or work weekends to make up the time i spend at tafe.

Anyone been in a similar situation or have some thoughts/advice?

Thanks,

Cross.



I have considered engineering but find it painful enough dealingwith the majority of them now, let alone becoming one:D

Haha, Ive heard similar things from a few people.


Like I said before, I missed the start of this post.
Are you just after a change or don't like being a sparky.

There are many aspects to the electrical trade and a change within the trade might be change enough.

I am happy being a sparky, but has i said, our company does both which means im required to do both weather i like it or not. So if i have to do it i thought it made sense to get qualified. But at this point that is proving to be a fairly difficult option.

[Jack E]

our company does both which means im required to do both weather i like it or not. So if i have to do it i thought it made sense to get qualified. But at this point that is proving to be a fairly difficult option.
If you are required to do both then your boss would be silly not to do everything he can to have you qualified.

Once you are a qualified sparky he would be able to put you on as a mature age apprentice to do the refrigeration trade.

He would get government rebates and it probably wouldn't end up costing him anything at all.

Cheers, Jack.

[cross]

If you are required to do both then your boss would be silly not to do everything he can to have you qualified.

Like alot of employers, he doesnt mind if i do the course, but he isnt going out of his way to help me or make me do it considering it doesnt really benifit him.


Once you are a qualified sparky he would be able to put you on as a mature age apprentice to do the refrigeration trade.

Im not sure how that would work considering ill be 21 when i finish electrical?

[gyro]

I have 2 adult refrig lads going thru trade school at the moment, they have log books and need them signed off, some of the work they are required to do we dont do so they are sent off to another company for a few weeks to get the relevent experience this seems to work, they also do work for other companies in their hollidays just for the experience. I have had 2 other lads that have done the same and are now tradesmen. these are all mature age students and go to the trade school with the younger lads, does not seem to be to big a problem for them. the new licencing regulations was the catalist for this.

Hey everyone,

Just after some advice. Im currently in the 3rd year of my electrical apprenticeship, and am considering doing the refrigeration and air conditioning course once i complete the electrical. My boss has the dual trade and we do both kinds of work. However doing the course would mean i would have to sacrifice holidays, money, or work weekends to make up the time i spend at tafe.

Anyone been in a similar situation or have some thoughts/advice?

Thanks,

Cross.




Haha, Ive heard similar things from a few people.



I am happy being a sparky, but has i said, our company does both which means im required to do both weather i like it or not. So if i have to do it i thought it made sense to get qualified. But at this point that is proving to be a fairly difficult option.[/QUOTE]

[cross]

My Boss is considering paying for the course, so i just have to make up the time or forfeit pay for the days im away.

I still am not sure if its the best option for me considering it will give me another certificate at the same level that i will be getting from electrical, so it isnt necessarily a progression upwards from my original training.

[pawnhead]

As far as I can see you've got three choices: -

1. Do the course and hope that it may give you some benefit in the future when there's no electrical work to be had, yet everyone wants an air conditioner.

2. Don't do the course, but do overtime instead, and invest the money you make in an air conditioning company as a nest egg for the future when everyone wants air conditioners and there's no electrical work to be had.

3. Don't do the course, and don't do any overtime, but spend your time with your mates or your girlfriend and enjoy life as much as you can because you only live once.

They're all valid choices and only you can decide what you want to do.

[OBBob]

I still do all three. I'm still at work, I renovate and I'm still a uni student by corro. I have always tired to consider them all as hobbies, which isn't always easy ... but they all teach you a lot, you meet a lot of cool people and get heaps of life experience. The money side of things comes in to all these items too but I don't think it should be the focus. Chose your best option and then enjoy it ... the rest will come. Any of the options has to be better than vegging in front of the TV.

[Ivan in Oz]

I'm not sure how that would work, considering I will be 21 when I finish electrical?


I was 24 when I started my Apprenticeship;
Can't see any real issues.
Electrical F/M
Now Doing Instruments and Chemicals at a Power Station Water Treatment Plant :2tsup:

[cross]

As far as I can see you've got three choices: -

1. Do the course and hope that it may give you some benefit in the future when there's no electrical work to be had, yet everyone wants an air conditioner.

2. Don't do the course, but do overtime instead, and invest the money you make in an air conditioning company as a nest egg for the future when everyone wants air conditioners and there's no electrical work to be had.

3. Don't do the course, and don't do any overtime, but spend your time with your mates or your girlfriend and enjoy life as much as you can because you only live once.

They're all valid choices and only you can decide what you want to do.

That lays it out fairly nicely pawnhead. Im still considering all 3 points and havnt ruled any of them out just yet. I will do some more thinking and time will tell i suppose.

[pawnhead]

That lays it out fairly nicely pawnhead. Im still considering all 3 points and havnt ruled any of them out just yet. I will do some more thinking and time will tell i suppose.You might have missed it, but there's also this option (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showpost.php?p=459592&postcount=8). Of course it depends on how happy you are with your life at the moment. :)

[cross]

You might have missed it, but there's also this option (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showpost.php?p=459592&postcount=8). Of course it depends on how happy you are with your life at the moment. :)

Thanks, these are all things i have to consider. I am very happy with my life at this point. I would be happy just doing electrical, but my boss has made it clear that i will be required to do electrical and airconditioning from day to day. He also said that he will be able to teach me most of what i need to know so i can do the job without formal qualifications in refrigeration. The reason i want to do the course is because if im going to be required to do that kind of work, i feel i should be appropriately qualified.

[bricks]

Im a Plumber and accidently a builder, when i went to do my master plumbing i heard that you needed a building liscence to co-ordinate trades during reno's etc, so i payed the money and spent 4 years after hours doing the course.

Turns out you dont have to be a fully qualified builder to co-ordinate trades but without getting long winded, it has helped me a great deal.

Do the extra, it is worth it, but maybe your boss should help out a bit more, he cant expect you to do training that helps him if he doesnt pay you to do it, thats what apprenticships are about.

[cross]

Do the extra, it is worth it, but maybe your boss should help out a bit more, he cant expect you to do training that helps him if he doesnt pay you to do it, thats what apprenticships are about.

The way he sees it is that the less training he has to provide the better. Electrical is the minimum that i need, which he is paying for.

[pawnhead]

The reason i want to do the course is because if im going to be required to do that kind of work, i feel i should be appropriately qualified.Do you need a license to do air conditioniong? Can you get one without doing a course? If you don't, and you can, then the answer would be simple for me.
I don't mean to blow my own horn, but all the builders that I've worked for consider me one of the best chippies they've had, but I've never done a formal aprenticeship. You don't have to to get a carpenter's license. You just need experience and references, so I didn't bother. I just took a short cut to my builder's license by doing a four year part time course at tech, but I'd been working as a chippie for quite some years before I tackled it. Otherwise it would have meant another three years in tech learning a lot of BS, a lot of which would be irrelevant to what goes on on site.

[cross]

Do you need a license to do air conditioniong? Can you get one without doing a course? If you don't, and you can, then the answer would be simple for me.

To the best of my knowledge, if i wanted to work for myself and do air conditioning un-supervised, then i would need a licence. For now its perfectly fine for me to work under my boss' licence. And the only way i know to get a licence is the course, or wait until ive done a few more years work and apply for a licence based on my experience. However i would probably be forced to attend at least some tafe(if not all the modules) to do part of the course.

[RufflyRustic]

Cross,

Do the extra and get the qualification. The study is for your current job, therefore it should be tax-deductible - of course, check this info with your accountant at tax time.

GET THE QUALIFICATION!!!!!!!! I reckon you'll kick yourself later if you don't. You aren't always going to be working for this man, which means you aren't always going to be able to use his licence.

Good Luck!!!

Cheers
Wendy

[cross]

Thanks everyone for the replies, thanks to those who are giving me a gentle push towards doing the extra course and thanks to pawnhead for a slightly different perspective on the situation.

I am still going to do everything i can to do the extra course once i finish electrical. I have a number of options when it comes to making up for the time i spend at tafe, i just need to work out which one is best for me. Also recently my boss has agreed to pay for the course, just has long as i make up the time i spend at tafe somehow.

One of the main things i took from this thread (3 threads) was something barrywhite said "If you are content to just work on wages don't worry about it. You will have a JOB and that stands for "Just Over Broke". To get any where in life you need to work for yourself."

I realise life isnt all about money, but i would like to work for myself at some stage and having both trades will give me the most options when it comes to that time.

Thanks again,

Cross.

[ozwinner]

Yeahhhh..:brava
Only took us 3 posts and 4670 man hours to convince you to do it.:clap:

Al :2tsup:

[bricks]

Dont wanna rock the boat cross but sound like your getting screwed, Id do the course out of my own pocket because its worth it but tell my boss where to go if he asked me to use my skill.

There is a shortage of skilled trades and apprentices, here in adelaide most are through training organizations, we have to compeate just to make them stay with us. If your annoyed coz you think your getting a bum deal, id say you are, although indentured to your employer it isnt impossible to change jobs as an apprentice, Id line up a new job and tell my boss where to stick it.

[ozwinner]

Sounds like a real prick that you work for bricks. :~

Al :~

[bricks]

I work for myself, and i work contract basis for a pretty big company,
When i work for the company (You can go a year without seeing the owner) i suppose im kinda the boss for the apprentices and tradies.

Im finding that its becoming harder and harder to keep apprentices / employees , it just annoys me when other blokes seem to treat their work force like slaves and i cant even fart with out someone pulling the pin.
I dont consider myself, an ar #@ le leader, i try to keep people happy, ( they tend to be more co-operative). But in the company there are normally 5-10 people, including apprentices who leave every month because of a policy I or the 25 or so others in my position cant change.

If your a skilled worker in this country you are gold, it is hard to replace you and you shouldnt have to put up with crap.
Work hard, get money, you should'nt have trouble finding a job (in a big city at least). As Johnny Howard said about workplace reforms, everyone has the right to find a new job if they dont like whats going on.

[ozwinner]

I work for myself, .


Sounds like a real prick that you work for bricks. :~

Al :~

Like I said.

Al:U

[bricks]

While i may believe i work for myself, and i go to work and make my own decisions like a big boy, I think everyone Knows they serve a higher being in this world. :oo:

Tha missus:C

[pawnhead]

To the best of my knowledge, if i wanted to work for myself and do air conditioning un-supervised, then i would need a licence. For now its perfectly fine for me to work under my boss' licence. And the only way i know to get a licence is the course, or wait until ive done a few more years work and apply for a licence based on my experience. However i would probably be forced to attend at least some tafe(if not all the modules) to do part of the course.
It is not the intent of the legislation to lock people out of the industry just because they haven't done the relevant course. All people handling refrigerant are required to hold a licence from 1 July 2005, however if you have worked in the industry prior to applying for a licence, then you will be able to obtain a 12 month Experienced Person's licence. This licence recognises past experience in the industry as a transitional measure. When you reapply for a licence at the end of the 12 months you will need to show that you have the necessary skills, experience or training necessary for you to be able to meet the requirements of the licence (see Table 1). This will be done either through a trade recognition process, a Recognition of Prior Learning (RPL) process or a demonstration of current competencies.
http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosphere/ozone/publications/rac-faq.html#industry
APPLICATION FOR NATIONAL REFRIGERANT HANDLING LICENCE
Documentary Evidence in support of Application
< snip >
Trade Certificate i.e. Any Certificate having a Trade Outcome, and evidence of Industry Experience*
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:x2yMCLbIbJYJ:www.arctick.org/pdf/ARC_6ppApplicationForm.pdf+refrigeration+licence&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=au
As I read it, if you've got a sparky's licence and experience in refrigeration, then I'd just apply for the licence.

[cross]

Thanks for taking the time to look that up pawnhead, i have sent an email to arktic enquiring about the options i have for obtaining the licence.

[cross]

Found the full version of the information you posted pawnhead:

http://www.arctick.org/pdf/Licence%20Qualifications%20V1.pdf

"Any Certificate having a trade outcome in Refrigeration and Air Conditioning e.g. Journeyman's Certificate, or Allied Trades Certificate and detailed evidence of at least 4 years relevant industrial experience working as a Refrigeration Mechanic."

Nice of them to edit and leave out important parts in one version of the paperwork. :(

[cross]

Here is the email reply i received from arctick:

"If you only require to do splits up to 18KW you can do a course which is Mem20198 Certificate II in Engineering Production (Air Conditioning). If you require to do commercial refrigeration you will be required to complete the apprenticeship course which is MEM 30299 Cert III in Engineering Mechanical (Refrigeration & Air Conditioning). If you take on one of these courses you will need to apply for a trainee licence, which you will need to be supervised for, but once completed you will be issued with a licence and you will not need to be supervised."

Looks like its back to tafe for me..... :D

[pawnhead]

Looks like its back to tafe for me..... :D
Ah well. Sorry to get your hopes up there.

You can also quite easily get a limited plumbers license to install water heaters too I believe. Plumbers can get a limited sparkies license to do the same. There's money in that and you can keep the plumbers honest with their charges. They're generally a lot dearer than sparkies and chippies since they've got to keep their yachts sailing. :wink:

[cross]

Its a difficult situation, i still have some doubts about weather i will use the licence at any time and if its worthwhile. I know people say it increases job oppertunities etc, but sometimes im not sure if i even want to do airconditioning:?.. Im happy doing electrical and dont mind that kind of work. And at times i think i should do the course so i dont miss this opportunity. While at other times i feel like just enjoying life and being carefree.. has pawnhead said in earlier posts.

[pawnhead]

Its a difficult situation, i still have some doubts about weather i will use the licence at any time and if its worthwhile. I know people say it increases job oppertunities etc, but sometimes im not sure if i even want to do airconditioning .. Im happy doing electrical and dont mind that kind of work. And at times i think i should do the course so i dont miss this opportunity. While at other times i feel like just enjoying life and being carefree.. has pawnhead said in earlier posts.Well that's quite a confused post and it's hard to give advice beyond what's already been said by all. The course may not be any benefit to you at all, but it may be very useful. No one has a crystal ball and no one knows where you will be in seven years. It all depends on your conviction.

When you make a decision, as we are all forced to at various stages of our lives, the most important thing is to make it with conviction. You must be sure of yourself even if you’re not, if you know what I mean. If you can’t convince yourself that you’ve made the right decision then you’ll have much less chance of being successful in anything.

The next most important thing is, don’t look back in remorse. If you’ve convinced yourself that you’ve made the right decision, then that’s what it was and you should have no regrets. If you end up broke, and destitute in old age because you’ve partied all your life and tried to do whatever has made you happiest from moment to moment, then you should have no regrets. It’s better than being miserable in your work and piling up wads of dough. You don’t need much to be happy if you’ve got the right outlook.

As others have said, it may be most prudent to do the course then set up your own electrical/airconditioning company. That’s the best decision and you should be proud of yourself and attack your seven year plan with zeal.

It may be best to do overtime instead so you’ll be financially secure when you set up your own electrical contracting company. That’s the best decision and you should be proud of yourself and attack your seven year plan with zeal.

It may be best, after you’ve obtained your license, to do a Clerk of Works course, and obtain a full builders license, then set up your own building/electrical company. That’s the best decision and you should be proud of yourself and attack your seven year plan with zeal.

It may be best to spend your time doing whatever you enjoy most. That’s the best decision because pride and money have nothing to do with it. You’re doing what you want and you’d be the envy of a lot of people who are miserable in their lives. It doesn’t matter at all what anyone else thinks. The most important opinion of all, and the only one that really matters, is your own, and you have no regrets.

You may start the course, then change your mind. You may have an offer to set up a a partnership if you devote all of your time to it. If you decide to quit, then do it with conviction and have no regrets. At the time it was the best decision you could have made.

The worst decision that you may make in the future, is to choose to have regrets about your past. You must live with the consequences and life’s too short to waste wallowing in self pity.

If after pondering the options, you still aren’t convinced with yourself, then I’d suggest a backpack, and seek what you may be looking for. It could be as simple as surfing the net for possibilities, and alternatives.


Whatever you do, keep a smile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don&#37;27t_Worry,_Be_Happy) on your dial. :)

[cross]

Thanks alot for the post pawnhead, it gives me alot to think about.

Today i spoke with my boss and clearly outlined why i beleive it would be beneficial to the company for him to provide me with appropriate training if im required to do refrigeration and air conditioning work in addition to electrical. He hasnt given a definite answer yet, but it seems he is starting to see that providing me with the training may be a good idea for him.

[pawnhead]

Found the full version of the information you posted pawnhead:

http://www.arctick.org/pdf/Licence%20Qualifications%20V1.pdf (http://www.arctick.org/pdf/Licence&#37;20Qualifications%20V1.pdf)

"Any Certificate having a trade outcome in Refrigeration and Air Conditioning e.g. Journeyman's Certificate, or Allied Trades Certificate and detailed evidence of at least 4 years relevant industrial experience working as a Refrigeration Mechanic."

Nice of them to edit and leave out important parts in one version of the paperwork. :(Perhaps it's not the end of it just yet. This is the complete section from that pdf: -
Full Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Licence
Licence can be obtained if you have any of the following:
Successful Completion of an Apprenticeship as a Refrigeration Mechanic e.g. Certificate of Completion, Proficiency Certificate, or a
Trade Recognition Certificate: Refrigeration Mechanic.
MEM30205 Certificate III in Engineering Mechanical Trade (Refrigeration and Air Conditioning).
MEM30298 Certificate III in Engineering (Mechanical - Refrigeration and Air Conditioning).
UTE30999 Certificate III in Electrotechnology Refrigeration and Air Conditioning.
Any Certificate having a trade outcome in Refrigeration and Air Conditioning e.g. Journeyman's Certificate, or Allied Trades
Certificate and detailed evidence of at least 4 years relevant industrial experience working as a Refrigeration Mechanic.
http://www.arctick.org/pdf/Licence%20Qualifications%20V1.pdf And this is a definition of Trade Recognition that I've found: -
What is Trade Skills Recognition?
Many people with trade skills and experience do not have formal qualifications. There are opportunities for these people to have their skills assessed and formally recognised.
Trade recognition in NSW is conducted in accordance with Part 3 of the Apprenticeship and Traineeship Act 2001. Fees are established by regulation under this Act.
Who can apply?
If a person has experience working in a particular recognised trade but does not have formal qualifications in that trade, he/she can apply to have his/her trade skills assessed and formally recognised by the NSW Vocational Training Tribunal (VTT) and receive trade certification. They may do this if they:
• have worked in the particular trade for at least four years (either in Australia or Overseas), or
• have completed an apprenticeship or other trade training (either in Australia or Overseas), or
• have completed a recognised industry assessment program or
• have acquired an appropriate qualification

http://apprenticeship.det.nsw.edu.au/html/tradeskills.htm
Here is the email reply i received from arctick:

"If you only require to do splits up to 18KW you can do a course which is Mem20198 Certificate II in Engineering Production (Air Conditioning). If you require to do commercial refrigeration you will be required to complete the apprenticeship course which is MEM 30299 Cert III in Engineering Mechanical (Refrigeration & Air Conditioning). If you take on one of these courses you will need to apply for a trainee licence, which you will need to be supervised for, but once completed you will be issued with a licence and you will not need to be supervised."

Looks like its back to tafe for me..... :D
Maybe, but perhaps not. Post the email that you sent to them and post the complete response if there's any more to it.

Perhaps you just need a bit more conviction when you approach them. :wink: They may be reluctant to show you a shortcut because they want you to pay for their course. The person that responded to you may not be aware of it, or there could be other reasons.

I obtained a carpenter's license without any formal education at all. It was before I sat for my builder's course. Four years experience + references + sitting for an exam, are all that's required nowadays I believe. Why bother learning a whole lot of crap that you're never going to use, I thought, so I taught myself only what I needed to know (roofs, staircases, framing, etc).

The squeaky wheel gets the oil so I'd try to get to the bottom of this if I were you.

[cross]

Maybe, but perhaps not. Post the email that you sent to them and post the complete response if there's any more to it.

Thats the complete reply. I dont have a copy of what i sent, but it went something like:

"i am currently doing the 3rd year of my electrical apprenticeship. The company i work for does electrical and aircon/refrigeration. What am i required to do to recieve a licence. Send a letter signed by my employer highlighting my experience in the trade? The 3 year tafe course?"

[cross]

Ive been doing alot of thinking about my options.

Ive done calculations to see how much money i will be giving up if i do the tafe course. Works out to be around $10,000 pay lost over the 3 years, plus tafe fees, text books, travel expenses (most of which can be claimed on tax i beleive).

My boss is not willing to pay for the course, or the time i spend away from work (which is understandable, but still a little frustratng), and i will receive very little extra pay on the completion of the course.

I also have taken into consideration finding another employer and just doing electrical when i finish my electrical apprenticeship.

And finally, the things relating to variety of work vs. money. Doing the course would mean i am better qualified in a larger variety of work, but at the same time, i only need the qualification to do the extra work if i start my own business.

I have also considered the possibility of starting a business in the future and still am weighting up weather or not its a sensible option. Being that i give up holiday pay, super etc, but at the same time gain a few other things like flexible hours, ability to choose my work etc.

These are all the things im considering, and at this point im still undecided. :oo::?:oo:

But im not letting it stress me, just weighing up the options and ill see what happens.:)

[RufflyRustic]

It's interesting to see you do the research and work through your thinking. I'm sure you'll make the right decision for you.

Good Luck!

Wendy

[Jack E]

i only need the qualification to do the extra work if i start my own business.
I don't think this is correct.

To work as a refrigeration mechanic you either need to be licensed or be an endentured apprentice under the direct supervision of a licensed refrigeration mechanic.

Cheers, Jack

[cross]

I don't think this is correct.

To work as a refrigeration mechanic you either need to be licensed or be an endentured apprentice under the direct supervision of a licensed refrigeration mechanic.

Cheers, Jack

Technically, i agree. But in my boss' mind.. it doesnt matter. :rolleyes:

[journeyman Mick]

Technically, i agree. But in my boss' mind.. it doesnt matter. :rolleyes:

Aah yes, but what about your next boss.:q

Another point to consider, licenses never becom easier to attain, generally they become harder and harder to attain. If you get the qualifications and license now it may save you a lot of grief and work further down the track.

Mick

[ozwinner]

Another point to consider, licenses never becom easier to attain, generally they become harder and harder to attain.

Mick

How true, some years ago I could have just applied to get my domestic builders licence no questions asked, but I didnt bother.

Al :(

[journeyman Mick]

Al,
I should have gotten mine a few years ago, would have been a fee and a bit of paper work but I had no interest in building houses anymore. The way licensing has gone in Qld now the carpenter's contractor license is very restrictive in what work you can perform for the public. So I'm probably going to have to pull my finger out and do a huge stack of paper work and pay a lot more money to get the same bit of paper (well it's a plastic card now)

Mick

[cross]

Thanks to everyone for their advice.

Ive made my decision. Im not going to do the course. After alot more discussion with my boss he is no longer even willing to guarentee that he will provide me with the training for the refrigeration side of things. Leaving me with limited options.

I plan to finish my apprenticeship with him (1 year to go) and then seek another employer.

Thanks again.

[journeyman Mick]

Cross,
something else to consider:
It's much easier to study when you're young, your brain has a greater capacity to learn the younger you are (bad timing as you've got less motivation, generally:rolleyes: ).
The course will only cost you more, should you consider doing it later on.
The license will only ever be harder to get.
Job security; in this day and age job security is almost non existant.
If you want to work on wages for the rest of your life, that's fine, but you'll be more employable with dual qualifications.
Dual qualifications will mean more jobs are open to you.
If you want to work for yourself then there are more options open to you and a larger client base.

Perhaps your boss withdrew his offer to fund the course because you don't seem committed. Decide, really decide what you're going to do and then do it. If it means doing the course then tell him and you may be pleasantly suprised. If you decide not to do the course, fine, just be very sure that whatever you decide you won't look back and say: "if only......"

Mick

[journeyman Mick]

Cross,
what happened to the post you put up saying you were still in two minds? Get your act together!:~

Mick

[cross]

Thanks for the replies Mick.

I dont think my lack of "commitment" is the problem with my boss. My seemingly constant change of mind about what im doing has only been in my mind and on this forum. I have only discussed with my boss that i wanted to do the course. It is his inability to give me a clear answer that causes me to keep changing my mind. In all fairness he is dealing with some personal problems at the moment so i dont blame him for not being able to give me an answer and put my question at the top of his list of priorities.

I have until the start of next year to make my choice. I still am not really convinced either way. If i find that my boss is willing to provide me with the training then i would commit 100% to doing the course.

I will continue to stay open to all the options and see what happens at the end of the year.

[journeyman Mick]

Cross,
$10K over 3 years = less than $65 per week.
Now I know that on apprentice wages that's a bit, but it's not impossible. If you wait a few years until you've got a wife and kids it will cost more and it will be much harder to find the time.

Ask yourself:
If I do the course instead of work, will I regret it down the line?
If I do the course instead of party, will I regret it down the line?
If I do the course instead of travel, will I regret it down the line?
If I do the course now, will I regret it down the line?

Mick

[cross]

If I do the course instead of work, will I regret it down the line?
If I do the course instead of party, will I regret it down the line?
If I do the course instead of travel, will I regret it down the line?
If I do the course now, will I regret it down the line?


The problem is. No matter how much i want to do the course, unless my boss actually wants to spend the time training me and give me the time off to do it, then i dont have the option.

[pawnhead]

Thats the complete reply. I dont have a copy of what i sent, but it went something like:

"i am currently doing the 3rd year of my electrical apprenticeship. The company i work for does electrical and aircon/refrigeration. What am i required to do to recieve a licence. Send a letter signed by my employer highlighting my experience in the trade? The 3 year tafe course?"Well have you looked (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/hedgehog.jpg) into the links I provided? Have you rung (http://www.web2weblog.com/50226711/images/monkey-phone.jpg) anyone?

I followed the links and came up with this: -

UTE30999 Certificate III in Electrotechnology (Refrigeration and Air Conditioning)

Applicants for trade recognition should provide evidence to demonstrate at least 4 years practical experience in the following trade competencies.

In addition to any other evidence supporting an application for trade recognition, applicants are encouraged to use this checklist as a self assessment competency guide and lodge it with the application.

For further information and a guide to assist applicants for Trade Recognition in this trade, click here (PDF 80KB).
http://apprenticeship.det.nsw.edu.au/html/trades/UTE30999.htmAnd from the pdf: -
If you are seeking trade recognition as a Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Mechanic
you must provide evidence that you have successfully complete a recognised course,
module or unit of competency on the safe handling of refrigerants in Australia.
That means that you must have completed either of the following (or equivalent):
Recognised Training Course: CFC/HCFC Accreditation course required for
State/Territory CFC/HCFC User Authorisation, prior to 1st July 2005
National module: NR03 Refrigerants
Unit of Competence: MEM18.86A Test, Evacuate and Charge Refrigerants.
Unit of Competence: UEENEE008A Recover, Pressure and Leak Test, Evacuate
and Charge Refrigeration Systems
http://apprenticeship.det.nsw.edu.au/docs/UTE30999_appinfo3.pdfAnd the MEM18.86A is a very short course: -
Course Name: Split Air-Conditioning Systems
Fees: $650 (GST Exempt) (No concession)
Times and Dates:
Length: Feb 1 - Feb 3, Thu - Sat 8am - 4pm, 3 x 7hrs
http://www.shortcourses.vic.gov.au/searchdisplay.asp?crs=209619&prv_id=170I'd certainly be ringing around to find out what this Trade Recognition Certificate is all about if I were you.
There's a document here that I haven't looked at. : -
http://apprenticeship.det.nsw.edu.au/docs/trade_skills_0905.pdf
Another one here: -
http://apprenticeship.det.nsw.edu.au/docs/VTT99_sept_05.pdf
And in this document: -
http://apprenticeship.det.nsw.edu.au/html/tradelist.htm
Refrigeration/Air Conditioning (Mechanic) is listed as a trade that can be certified by a Trade Recognition Certificate.

I might be getting your hopes up, but it doesn't sound like you've done any real inquiries into taking a short cut to your license.

You've got to have a license to be a painter, but very few of them have done the four year course at Tech. I couldn't think of a bigger waste of time than spending four years learning how to push a roller and slop a bit of paint on a wall. with four years training you ought to be able to re-pant the Sistine Chapel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sistine_Chapel) (no offense to any painters out there.:wink:)

If you don't ask, then you'll never find out. Don't listen to Arktic. They just want your money. Ring TAFE. You never know. You may just have to pass that test they're talking about in that link I provided, and get your boss to sign off that you've been installing air cons for the last four years?

[cross]

I have spoken with another tradesman who is in a similar position with me and found out about a short course that allows you to gain the restricted licence for split system install and decommisioning up to 18kw.

The reason he is doing this course is because the company he works for doesnt do a large enough variety of work to warrant or allow him to do the full refrigeration course. Having looked back over my recorded work experience i also notice that the majority of work i have done has been split system installs. I am enquiring to see weather or not the restricted licence allows you to work unsupervised, or if you still need the additional licence from the department of fair trading if you plan to do installs without the coverage of a fully licenced installer.

I think doing this course may be an acceptable compromise, being that i most likely wont recieve the full range or quality of training to undertake the full refrigeration course.

Am still finding out futher information regarding the course and what is included under the licence.

[cross]

Have found out futher info regarding the course and licences etc.

To work on airconditioning and refrigeration unsupervised in nsw you require a licence from actick and a licence from the department of fair trading. Having only the restricted licence from actick doesnt make you eligible to obtain a licence from fair trading, so the restricted course wont be much use.

[chrisv]

It may be best, after you’ve obtained your license, to do a Clerk of Works course, and obtain a full builders license, then set up your own building/electrical company. That’s the best decision and you should be proud of yourself and attack your seven year plan with zeal.

Hi pawnhead,

Just a quick question, would you happen to know what the equivalent in QLD would be for the "Clerk of Works" course.

Little background about me........have been off the tools for quite sometime and now back working fulltime on the tools as a Sparky on the Gold Coast, I am in the process of starting my "Electrical Contractors Course" via correspondance to enable me to eventually work for myself. Now I am a little older (34) and have a few more dollars in the bank, I will be trying to get involved with small property development (walkups/townhouses etc). Any thoughts/ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks

[journeyman Mick]

Chris,
I believe the Clerk of works course/position has disappeared in Qld. Up until recently to get a builders license you needed to be a carpenter or bricklayer and do the appropriate course. Now it doesn't matter if you have any trade qualifications or not, you need to do the appropriate course and work for a builder for two years in`a supervisory position. Alternatively if you have worked two years or more as a supervisor you can get Recognition of Prior Learning (which will cost about as much as doing the course:rolleyes: ). Tafe and HIA run courses, probably others as well.

Mick

[journeyman Mick]

Chris,
check out the QBSA website for requirements, from my reading you need to do 2 years supervisory work if you're a carpenter or brick/block layer or 4 years for any one else. Go here (http://www.bsa.qld.gov.au/Home/BuildersContractors/LicensingInformation/) and see if you can make any sense of it.

Mick