making a non-standard door cheaply?

[mic-d]

How's this for an idea. I have to hang a new exterior door with an opening of 915mm but custom-made doors seem a bit expensive. I thought I would acquire a couple of smaller doors and glue and biscuit them together edge-to-edge. I think this should be fine, what do you think?

Cheers
Michael

[silentC]

I presume you'd then try to cut the door down to size to fit the opening, and that's where you might run into trouble. Depending on what sort of doors you get, the cores are usually not suitable for ripping. The stiles are an inch or two wide and then you get god knows what in the guts of the door.

[Wood Butcher]

Just check to make sure that whatever doors you get are solid core not hollow. I thought the nrom for external doors was solid core anyway (but I have been known to be wrong)

[silentC]

Yes they're solid core but you don't know what crap has been used in the guts. The rails and stiles are all you see normally but if you ripped one in half it could have cavities and god knows what else.

[mic-d]

I presume you'd then try to cut the door down to size to fit the opening, and that's where you might run into trouble. Depending on what sort of doors you get, the cores are usually not suitable for ripping. The stiles are an inch or two wide and then you get god knows what in the guts of the door.

Well, I could just leave it full size and lean it up against the opening with a rock in front of it I 'spose:p
Good point Silent. I could always rip half(or so) off both doors and glue the cut edges together leaving two nice edges.
Thanks
CHeers
Michael

[echnidna]

or make a door from scratch

[pawnhead]

How's this for an idea. I have to hang a new exterior door with an opening of 915mm but custom-made doors seem a bit expensive. I thought I would acquire a couple of smaller doors and glue and biscuit them together edge-to-edge. I think this should be fine, what do you think?

Cheers
MichaelIt sounds to me like it may develop a bow or fall apart from weather conditions. Where are you going to get standard doors around 460 wide anyway?
You should be able to get a 900 door off the shelf or just a 900 exterior solid core blank with either plywood veneer or redicoat. Just edge strip it a bit if it's still too narrow. I think you can get blanks up to 1200 X 2400. I know you can get 900 X 2100 MDF blanks but I don't know if they're external rated. Buy some beading or profile some yourself and nail it on, or attack it with your router (or both) to spruce it up a bit if you want.
Even if you can only get an 820 that's to your taste, I'd sooner edge strip it 50mm on each side than try to whack two separate doors together since your idea won't have a continuous rail top and bottom.
If I had a couple of narrow old joinery doors to suit, then I'd rip them down to allow for at least a 50mm edge strip top and bottom to lock them together and keep them straight. I wouldn't rely on just biscuits and glue for an external door that may get slammed every now and then.

Or just move the jamb stiles in to suit an 820. ;)

[mic-d]

Just ordering a custom door now, pays to check prices with more than one supplier:rolleyes:


cheers
Michael

[joe greiner]

Or just move the jamb stiles in to suit an 820. ;)

Now that could be sweet. Relocate the moulding as needed or add a narrow "feature" strip.

Joe

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

You should be able to get a 900 door off the shelf or just a 900 exterior solid core blank with either plywood veneer or redicoat. Just edge strip it a bit if it's still too narrow.

I'm not sure about 900, but I'm pretty sure 880's are readily available. I also think that 920's can be found, stock on the shelf, with some selective shopping. Of course, I may've had too many beers tonight and am just scrambling the ol' grey matter. [shrug]

But I agree with you in principle: I'd be inclined to screw some edge stripping to either side of an existing sized door, panelled or otherwise. Not only will it be more robust than having a "built-in fracture joint" down the middle but one "almost right" door would be a lot cheaper than two custom "half-sized" doors. (You will not find two 455mm or whatever doors "on the shelf.")


(Sorry. It seems I'm having a love-affair with apostrophes tonight. :rolleyes: )

[pawnhead]

I'm not sure about 900, but I'm pretty sure 880's are readily available. I also think that 920's can be found, stock on the shelf, with some selective shopping. Of course, I may've had too many beers tonight and am just scrambling the ol' grey matter. [shrug]I think you mean 870 there. They usually go in 50mm increments, and wide doors are quite common in commercial applications for disabled bathroom access and the like so I'd imagine you could get them water resistant and someone would stock them. I don't know about feature entrance doors though. MDF blanks are used extensively in office partition work hung on aluminium jambs. I've done a bit of that and it looks quite snazzy. I might get some 2400 X 900 blanks and aluminium jambs for my place for that matter.

[batcat]

I had the reverse problem to you.
A tiny Juliette Balcony with a narrow door.
Wishing to match existing there was no stock doors suitable.
My local timber yard sells rebated stiles and rails.
Was able to knock a door up in a couple of hours with a solid bottom half and glazed top half for a perfect fit.

[pawnhead]

Was able to knock a door up in a couple of hours with a solid bottom half and glazed top half for a perfect fit.That's the way to do it.

Then you can look at them and say that you knocked them up yourself. :2tsup:

PS Pics, or it didn't happen. :wink:

[batcat]

That's the way to do it.

Then you can look at them and say that you knocked them up yourself. :2tsup:

PS Pics, or it didn't happen. :wink:
runs off to faq to see how to imbed pics...
will be a pretty boring pic :rolleyes: - a door

[ex-chippie]

Most doors, internal or external are made to a standard size of 880mm wide and then increase or decrease by increments of 50mm. Ever thought of buying a 920mm door and buzzing 5mm off. Don't waste your time even trying to make a door because the materials will cost you more at retail price.And finally, dont use MDF for an external application-IT WILL SWELL!:doh:

[pawnhead]

Most doors, internal or external are made to a standard size of 880mm wide and then increase or decrease by increments of 50mm. From the Corinthian website: -
Standard sizes:
Door sizes: 2040 x 870/820/770/720/620/520†/460†/420† x 35mm.
http://www.cordoors.com.au/pdf/nat_impressions.pdf
Don't waste your time even trying to make a door because the materials will cost you more at retail price.: Well I was quoted about $6,000 (about $1000 a door) (http://www.theage.com.au/news/property/all-the-modified-cons/2006/06/30/1151174385062.html?page=2) for my bifold doors and windows (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?p=435423&postcount=435423), but I built and installed them myself for about $1,500 including the track system, glazing and all the hardware and door furniture. I’ve yet to post the cost breakdown (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showpost.php?p=445424&postcount=6) in the thread, but I’ll do it soon. Of course they are much higher than a standard door. You can get a standard sized timber (probably some kind of maple) glazed panel from Doors Plus for about $120 per leaf when they are on special. If you shopped around you could get the materials for slightly less, but the real savings come from when you need a tailor made door, and your time spent making them isn't a huge concern.

The bonus is that you can stand back with a beer in hand, take a look at them, and say "I built those doors myself, just the way I wanted them".

And finally, dont use MDF for an external application-IT WILL SWELL!:doh Whilst I wouldn’t use an MDF blank in an exposed external application, HMR MDF is suitable for use in steamy bathrooms where it may get wet occasionally. It’s also quite common to have MDF inside an external door, and it’s quite common for the MDF to be exposed after the door has been routed with a fancy profile. Whilst they probably would swell if the protective coating breaks down, a ply external door, or a joinery door would start to crack and split and fall apart if its coating breaks down as well. Maintain the door properly and you shouldn’t have problems.
William Russell Doors - Craftline Range
All doors are constructed with Pre-primed. Highly Moisture Resistant M.D.F. and Timber Internal Frames.
This range gives you a strong, durable entrance door suited to a quality paint finish.
http://www.google.com.au/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=mdf+doors&btnG=Search&meta=cr%3DcountryAU (http://www.google.com.au/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=mdf+doors&btnG=Search&meta=cr%3DcountryAU)
Armstrong’s
PAINT DOORS
EXTERNAL:
Medium Density Fibreboard – 12mm MDF Semi Solid Construction. All doors are Routed BOTH sides
and Moulded one Side. B - denotes Raised Panels
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:CeQWaU8viekJ:www.armstrongs.com.au/PDF%2520Files%2520for%2520Web%2520Site/paintdoors0900ret.pdf+mdf+doors&hl=en&gl=au&ct=clnk&cd=7Corinthian may use it as well, but I can't find any details on their website.

Solid MDF door blanks are quite cheap (http://www.lifetime.net.au/MDF.htm#Doors) for their size, and I wouldn’t have a problem using them externally if they were suitably coated and maintained, and were under cover, and not exposed to direct rain except occasionally under extreme conditions. If you edge stripped it with solid timber, using a good quality glue, and kept an eye on the coating and the edge strip so that it doesn't crack or peal off, then it would be as good as any timber door, but If you don't look after a timber door that's in an exposed environment, then it's going to fall apart no matter what it's made of.

[TermiMonster]

920 x 2040 is definately a standard door size. Any retailer who stocks doors will be able to get one of that size if they don't have it in stock. Style, material etc is another matter. Unlikely that you would be able to compete in cost making it yourself, but you may want something of non-standard timber etc, that is up to you.

[pawnhead]

Most doors, internal or external are made to a standard size of 880mm wideG'day chipsy.
I think you meant to say 870mm.


Sorry, but I can be pretty anal (http://nla.gov.au/nla.pic-an24130627-v) sometimes. :wink:

[rona]

Michael,
Having made hundreds of doors, both flush panel with bolection moulds and framed doors with glass panels etc during my years in the joinery shop, there is no way that I would attempt to make one at home nowadays, without
machines to keep them straight without twist and also square.
I have also hung hundreds in my time too, and if they are not straight and are out of square or twisted they are very difficult to do anything with.
After all that useless info, what I am trying to say is forget about the price and buy one that has been manufactured and is hopefully not twisted etc, then if need be add an extra strip to the sides. Make sure they are weatherproof, which is only a stamp on the edge and you don't really know, except it will be 3 times the price and 3 months down the track the ply will start to peel off.
OK Michael I hope this has helped.

Cheers,
Ron.

[BrisBen]

Go to corinthinan and buy a 2100 x 920 blokdor and cut it down to suit

they come in ready coat, paintable ply and a limited mumber of veneers

these doors can be cut an planed to virtually any size because to the way they are constructed - I have even cut an rebated one to make a barn type door (bottom half closed top half open)

They are solid and heavy but will do the trick for around 130 buks from memory

Oh btw - they also make fine temporary tabletops

[totoblue]

920 x 2040 is definately a standard door size.

Yes, Fowles Timber lists 920 wide doors (they even list 1020 wide doors).

http://www.fowlestimber.com.au/fowlestimber_2.pdf

Joining 2 doors would be a pain and it wouldn't look very good either IMHO.

As an aside, in my limited experience, solid core doors have staples and/or nails in them and if you cut off more than about 10mm off them you might hit metal so use a circular saw rather than a planer as a planer blade is wrecked by metal whereas a saw blade is a bit tougher.

[Cabbie]

My grandfather asked me to make him a custom size door for his garage as the one he had on there was rotting because it wasn't weather durable like it was supposed to be. The prices he was quoted were quite ridiculous so I made him one out of 33mm HMR Particle Board used 2x1 meranti for the outer edges and then Laminated some cheap white laminate over the front and back. I then did a 5mm radius on all the edges and it was fine. He hung it painted it and was quite happy with it. I did that for around 150 bucks not including labour. It was a lot better than the 300-500 he was quoted. HMR btw stands for High Moisture Resistance where it has to be used in a wet area. After he painted it looks fine is solid as hell and I think it will outlast the door he had there by 3 times as long without a problem. MDF is no good for external doors and there has been more and more places selling MDF Veneer doors which I just keep looking at as a recipe for disaster unless it is well lacquered and kept lacquered every couple yrs.

[pawnhead]

HMR btw stands for High Moisture Resistance where it has to be used in a wet area. After he painted it looks fine is solid as hell and I think it will outlast the door he had there by 3 times as long without a problem. MDF is no good for external doors and there has been more and more places selling MDF Veneer doors which I just keep looking at as a recipe for disaster unless it is well lacquered and kept lacquered every couple yrs.Well here is a picture of my front door which is about 15>20 yrs old. It's an external grade routed door with ply facing and HMR MDF inside the guts around the routings.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/th_Feb27697.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/Feb27697.jpg)

As you can see it's starting to fall apart. The ply is lifting all over the place, and the MDF is swelling where it's routed. I'd trust your particle board door even less under the same conditions.
If you're going to put a clear coating on an external door, then you really need to sand it back and re-coat every year or so. If you're going to paint it a solid colour, then keep an eye on it for cracking and deterioration, and you may get away with re-painting it every five or ten years. If it's a solid timber joinery door then it may last longer, but of course rot will set in to all the joints after a while if you don't look after it.

My front door hasn't had a re-coat since the day it was installed and it's still solid as a rock. It just looks a bit shabby. I don't really care about its maintenance because it was as ugly as a dog in the first place. I intend to build a new solid timber (real McCoy) joinery door sometime anyway.

But I have no doubt that if it had been maintained properly, then it would look as good now, as the day it was bought. It's in a very exposed position with no roof, and no eaves overhang. In other words, it cops a lot of weather (rain, wind and solar, facing North).
I also have no doubt, that with a bit of attention, and a coat of paint, I could make it look like a 'bought one' again.

Cheers (http://www.noelkingsley.com/Old%20rotten%20door164.jpg)

[mic-d]

Thanks for all the replies folks. I'd like to put this to bed now!! Not long after the post I found Corinthian did a 920 block board door at a good price so problem solved.

Cheers
Michael

[Cabbie]

Well here is a picture of my front door which is about 15>20 yrs old. It's an external grade routed door with ply facing and HMR MDF inside the guts around the routings.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/th_Feb27697.jpg (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/Feb27697.jpg)

As you can see it's starting to fall apart. The ply is lifting all over the place, and the MDF is swelling where it's routed. I'd trust your particle board door even less under the same conditions.
If you're going to put a clear coating on an external door, then you really need to sand it back and re-coat every year or so. If you're going to paint it a solid colour, then keep an eye on it for cracking and deterioration, and you may get away with re-painting it every five or ten years. If it's a solid timber joinery door then it may last longer, but of course rot will set in to all the joints after a while if you don't look after it.

My front door hasn't had a re-coat since the day it was installed and it's still solid as a rock. It just looks a bit shabby. I don't really care about its maintenance because it was as ugly as a dog in the first place. I intend to build a new solid timber (real McCoy) joinery door sometime anyway.

But I have no doubt that if it had been maintained properly, then it would look as good now, as the day it was bought. It's in a very exposed position with no roof, and no eaves overhang. In other words, it cops a lot of weather (rain, wind and solar, facing North).
I also have no doubt, that with a bit of attention, and a coat of paint, I could make it look like a 'bought one' again.

Cheers (http://www.noelkingsley.com/Old%20rotten%20door164.jpg)

The key to the way I did it is it was putting meranti all around the edges of the board and laminating both sides of the door. This won't allow the moisture to get through to the particle board as easily as if it was exposed. MDF is very tightly packed and when an edge or routered bit of it is exposed it will soak up the water very rapidly. Particle Board is different in where it will soak up the water but won't swell as much or as quick and breaks down and crumbles away. The flat surface is on either materials betetr at resisisting water than what the edges or routered parts are. Anyhow the door I made had all exposed areas covered by laminate or meranti and also coated rather thickly in outdoor paint. I don't see it falling apart for a very long time. A door that lasts 15-20 yrs in an exposed area such as your one is extremely good. With a bit more care couldda lasted a lot longer too. I am just going off experience. All the materials used to make doors all have their advantages and disadvantages. Most outside doors in a really exposed area won't last much longer than 20 yrs if they are left with no care. My grandparents old door was a hollow core door and only lasted maybe 8 yrs at the most it really should not have been used where it was.

[Geelong demo]

2nd hand;)