New shed of complicated structure

[LeoAU]

Hi guys,

I have just finished building my new retaining wall :C and as much as I could I created a larger area for the new shed.
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Looking at the pic and assuming we are looking North, the area is 2.55 m long and East West is 2.15m wide. Yeah, I know it is a smallish area, but before I had only 1.7 by 1.8 m shed.
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No kit on the market has exactly the same dimensions. I think I’ve checked every tin and wooden shed on the market and the solution would be to custom build one.
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Any suggestions how to do it? Should I move the hot water service somewhere? Or turn it 90 degrees (I will gain almost another 10 cm this way).
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Should I make one side of the shed in a door like manner or something so if something goes wrong I can simply ‘open’ one wall and get access to the hot water service?
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The fence behind is getting replaced so I can demolish it now and have access to the building site from 2 sides.

My thread about the new retaining wall:

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?p=436083#post436083

[Cliff Rogers]

.... the area is 2.55 m long and East West is 2.15m wide. ...
I hired a trip truck with a removable pantek that was about that size... maybe you can get one to go in there. :D

You are going to have to custom build something & you are going to have to check with your local council as it will be up against you house & the fence & most councils have certain rules about that.

Is the hot water system gas or electric?
If it is gas, it will be a problem if you enclose it in your workshop.
If it is electric, it will work as a space heater, good in winter, not good in summer.

[DJ’s Timber]

Looking at the pics, I would say the your unit is gas and if your enclose it you will have to install a flue for it. Which shouldn't be to much of a prob as they do make them to be installed in or outside with flue kits for enclosed installations

[LeoAU]

I had an existing shed there and I did check with council - up to 10m2 it is ok to do whatever I want because it is a replacement. I also checked whether I can do a concrete slab - it is OK too.

The hot water is a gas one. The flue kit - what is it for? What needs to be ventilated there?

If I could build the shed around the water srervice - it'll be like 2.5x2.5 meters - HUGE in my small back yeard THAT WOULD BE FANTASTIC!!!!:2tsup:
Can I? :?

[Big Shed]

Most state building codes don't allow gas HWS installations inside a structure. Where an existing HWS is inside and it has to be replaced it needs to go outside.
Apart from that I wouldn't be too happy having a gas HWS inside my workshop, they put out a fait bit of heat and you have to consider the fire hazard of the pilot light, constanly on, and the open flame when it is actually heating.
I don't know how old it is, but you might consider replacing it with an instantaneous unit mounted on the external shed or house wall?
Most shed manufaturers will modify their size, at a charge, most make 3mx3m sheds, perhaps you could modify one of those?

Fred

[Cliff Rogers]

.....The flue kit - what is it for? What needs to be ventilated there? ...
The flame.... it needs gas & oxygen & it gives off carbon dioxide & a few other things, water vapour is one I think.
The gas comes out of the bottle or mains, the oxygen comes out of fresh air.
The flame can not be sustained without fresh air & nor can you. :wink:

[Clinton1]

Take a look at Aarons Outdoor Creations http://www.aaronsoutdoor.com.au
They sell wood sheds, cubbys, granny flats, dog kennels.... ad nauseum. So there should be something in the size you want, or I'm sure they can make to measure.

If they don't have something that suits size wise.... at least you'll get a few design ideas, for when you do it yourself. :p

Good luck

[LeoAU]

<v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" style=" 12pt; 12pt;" alt="0" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata src="file:///C:&#37;5CDOCUME%7E1%5Cleonp%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_image001.gif" o:href="http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/smilies/standard/redface.gif"></v:imagedata></v:shape> yep, understood about oxygen and flame etc. Makes sense.
Should I talk to my council again to see whether I can install a HWS inside a structure?
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I checked rheem website and the HWS they sell now is either inside or outside type.<o></o>
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If I suggest my missis to spend another grand on the new HWS to make the shed be half a meter wider, she'll kill me and she'll find half a meter to bury me.<o></o>
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So, if the council says no, the only option will be to make it smaller.
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I guess building the shed around the heater, ie moving to the house wall behind the unit and in front leaving the unit outside is no feasible. Even if I build the shed in a U shape around the HWS, I still would have to make one of the walls detachable to allow access to the unit… nothing but the problems… :( :~ <o></o>
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I sent an email to Aaron’s shop asking whether they will do it to my sizes or not.<o></o>

[LeoAU]

Aaron's sales lady just got back to me. They don;t customise their stock. :~

[squashedfrog1]

try going to a 'real' shed company. None of this Aarons "cubbyhouse" type stuff. Try FairDinkim sheds or Safety Steel or any of the others listed in either the trading post or the weekly times. They will all custom build to your requirements.

SF

[old_picker]

For a shed of that size you could buy the material and stack it on the roofrack at sat morning teatime and build the whole damn thing built by knockoff. Well maybe Sunday lunch:2tsup: Go for it you will have a lot more fun than trying to get a shed outfit to build a one off for you.

Shed companies will charge a lot more than the cost of materials because of the small size. Have more fun and nuild out of 2nd hand stuff. You could build it out of 4x2 OB hardwood and a bit of 3x1 pine for battens,. Oh and I would get a bag or 3 of ready mix concrete for some small footongs for the 4 corner poles. You could make a L shape around the HWS with a sliding access bit you can pull off.

[Harry72]

I'd shift the HWS and use the house as one of the walls, build in the wooden fences as walls... the retaining wall could be turned into a shelf, gain the max space!

[LeoAU]

Oh and I would get a bag or 3 of ready mix concrete for some small footongs for the 4 corner poles. You could make a L shape around the HWS with a sliding access bit you can pull off.
are you saying i don't need a proper concrete slab? 10-20 m thick with bars?

[old_picker]

nah concrete is hard on the feet and back.
best floor is a dirt floor or even better a suspended timber floor.
you can alwys pour some concrete in once you are built if you absolutely have to have it. Use chicken wire for reinforcoing its cheaper than reo bar or mesh.

I built plenty of workshops I made a livin out and worked in for years on end with nothing but dirt on floors. Hell some people even live in mudbrick houses with dirt floors and its legal too.

Dont go hi tech - the ideas of harry72 are great using the fence and house as walls. Thinking about it thats what I woulda done. Dont forget this is not the Sydney harbor bridge, it will be a light, small sturucture so dont be too eager to over engineer it.

The main thing you will need to be carefull of is where the water off the roof drains to. You won't want it on the shed floor or running straight into your nieghbors back yard. That will determine the fall of the skillion roof.

[LeoAU]

nah concrete is hard on the feet and back.
best floor is a dirt floor or even better a suspended timber floor.
Mate, my old tin shed was sitting on the ground, and I tell ya it wasn't pretty - rot, mud, moisture on the floor at all times. That's why i wanna lift it up a bit. I thought concrete slab is the only way. But I hear ya - you are saying to build it on stumps?
1. If it is a 2.5x2.5 meters - one at each corner - would that be enough? 2. If I use my house's wall as one of the sheds walls - should I use stumps on that side too or do I nail the floor to the brickwork?
3. When I move my HWS - at the back of it there is just a cement sheet, ie no bricks. Do I leave it like that since it'll be inside the shed or do I need to properly cover the hole?

4. And the last but not the least important question - how hard/expensive would it be to move the HWS??? :?


The main thing you will need to be carefull of is where the water off the roof drains to. You won't want it on the shed floor or running straight into your nieghbors back yard. That will determine the fall of the skillion roof.
I am half a meter below my neghbour's block (that's what the new retaining wall was for), so, really all his water will flow to and under my shed. BUt I am going to install gatas and direct the water somewhere.

[old_picker]

Mate, my old tin shed was sitting on the ground, and I tell ya it wasn't pretty - rot, mud, moisture on the floor at all times. That's why i wanna lift it up a bit. I thought concrete slab is the only way. But I hear ya - you are saying to build it on stumps?
1. If it is a 2.5x2.5 meters - one at each corner - would that be enough? 2. If I use my house's wall as one of the sheds walls - should I use stumps on that side too or do I nail the floor to the brickwork?
3. When I move my HWS - at the back of it there is just a cement sheet, ie no bricks. Do I leave it like that since it'll be inside the shed or do I need to properly cover the hole?

4. And the last but not the least important question - how hard/expensive would it be to move the HWS??? :?



I am half a meter below my neghbour's block (that's what the new retaining wall was for), so, really all his water will flow to and under my shed. BUt I am going to install gatas and direct the water somewhere.


1.Stumps are 600 apart with joist on top then bearers on top of that running in the oposit direction - the flooring goes on top of that

Seems like overkill to me for such a small shed. I have done it with the floor made of palletts to get off the gound.

If the retaining wall is built properly you shouldnt get runnoff from your neighbors place. It should have a slotted drain at the base on the high side set in 3-400mm of coarse screeings. This slotted drain should be connected to the nearest stormie. All you should have to consider is water from the shed roof. Have the fall towards the front with spouting running to the garden or stormie if close.

You can use black plastic sheet under the palletts as a moisture barrier. Put sand down first. The floor is not a part of the structure at all.

The main structure is simple post and rail with infill of whatever. I would use 4x4 posts i each corner and one between.

3&4 These issues will be taken care of by the plumber you hire to shift the HWS.

Hard? No the plumber does it all to the very strict regulations in force with gas and hot water.
Expensive? It will cost a lot of money as the house hot water plumbing is designed to run from that point. Your kitchen/bathroom is probably close to that corner. The expense will be rerouting the main hotwater feed to the new location of the hws. Also if it is much further away yiou will notice that you have to run taps longer before you get hot water thereby using more water.

The HWS is the big issue with this project as you are not able to have it inside the shed. It may be cheaper to replace it with an instant return system which can be inside the shed and will mount directly to the wall. You will need to flue to the outside.

[LeoAU]

Thanks for all the info. Looks like it is not a weekend project after all. :wink:
With the HWS - I was thinking of moving it a meter (around that) towards the window. So it'll right in front of the new shed and access to it won't be a prob.
Another option is to move it to the left corner (house wall and fence) and build a gate from the front yard in the new fence. The shed in this instance will be of an L shape. More complicated option.

So, moving it a meter or so - it won't have great effect on the water supply, will it? From my understanding plumbing shouldn't cost too much, should it? :?

[LeoAU]

try going to a 'real' shed company. None of this Aarons "cubbyhouse" type stuff. Try FairDinkim sheds or Safety Steel or any of the others listed in either the trading post or the weekly times. They will all custom build to your requirements.

SF
Fair Dinkim, Safety Steel do not make small sheds - just called all of them and the answer was - go to bunnings... :C