Warnie to retire?

[Lignum]

Seems rumors are rife that the great man Warnie is going to retire :( hope thats all it is, but seems tonight he will make it public:(

[Shedhand]

Seems rumors are rife that the great man Warnie is going to retire :( hope thats all it is, but seems tonight he will make it public:(Nah, retiring as in goin' to bed. Been up celebrating since Perth. :D Seriously though, If he went after his 700th you couldn't blame him. He can get on with a PRIVATE life and anyway what else has he to prove? A legend!


Late breaking news: Yep looks like you were on the money mate. Another Nine Network commentator.

[bitingmidge]

Seems rumors are rife that the great man Warnie is going to retire :(
Firstly, he's not a great man. In fact, if any of the published accounts have even an iota of truth, he's probably one of the most brain-dead specimens of a man that one could imagine.

He is a fantastic cricketer, one of the best that has ever played the game, and will be missed when he does pull the pin. It's been a great pleasure to have been able to watch him do his stuff.

On the other hand, it will make sod-all difference to the team. Check out the results before, after and during those two years he was gone after his stupid drug incident. The team didn't even stumble, much as though the "commentators" would have you believe. Yes, he took lots of wickets, but he was just one member of a TEAM.

I'll miss his bowling when he retires, but my grandson won't even know who he was.

The king of spin is dead. Long live the new king, whoever he may be.

It's just a game!

P
:D :D :D

[martrix]

mmmm, heard that too. Would be a great shame if he does, i think he's got a couple more years in him.
However the circumstances for him to retire on an absolute high are as ripe as they will ever be at the boxing day test..
Maybe he wants to rebuild his family?

[Doughboy]

I reckon he should go as soon as he hits 700.... please go just go!!!!

Not my favourite person but a hell of a bowler!

Pete

[NewLou]

Bah!

Warnies one of the greatest cricketers ever to hit the hallowed turf n is regarded as the greatest leggie of all time.

To say he wont or wasent even missed is a load of *&^$@)%^@^ good results from great teams dont mean that "The warnie factor wasent missed" 1st class cricket is more than just a game I dont see tiddley winks pulling hundred thou audiences to test matches.

The Barmie army, the aussie crowds the only sport to hold up the national news mmmmmmaaaaaaaaaaatttttttteeeeee crickets an institution in Aus not just a game!!!!!!!!

I cant understand the rabble that bag him etc etc. Unless you've lived with the guy for a few years how can you know what sorta bloke he is!

As far as cricketers go Warnies an immortal.

The first bowler to reach 700 wickets by this virtue alone is a cricketing god.

Of course he'll be remembered just like Bradman n the rest of the Aussie Cricketing Legends that those interested in the sport are prowd of

Perhaps though concepts that only true fans of cricket will understand!!!

This mighty Aussie legend will live on!!!!

Aussie Aussie Aussie OY OY OY!!!

:D:D:D:D:D

[Grunt]

No, the guy is a tosser. Not in the Muttiah Muralitharan way.

Great bowler but I'm not sure I'll miss him.

[Lignum]

Firstly, he's not a great man. In fact, if any of the published accounts have even an iota of truth, he's probably one of the most brain-dead specimens of a man that one could imagine.

And the published accounts are where? or do you have access to info we dont?

or are you talking about the Pommie press and some of our own so called great sports editors.

I remember when he came back from his little enforced holiday and played a game down at the Junction oval and he would have signed about 500 autographs for the kids. He spent so long with them.

Back page photo of the Hun next day? A photo of him under a tree (by himself) having a fag. Next day all the bitingmidges of the world were queuing up to shoot him down on the radio and papers. How discracefull it was, they were all saying.

Hear the opinion of his team mates and the cricket jurnos that know him well and they all say he is one of natures real gentlemen. A soft spoken lovable bloke who will do anything for anyone.

But you know best because you have the published accounts to back it up.



On the other hand, it will make sod-all difference to the team. Check out the results before, after and during those two years he was gone after his stupid drug incident. The team didn't even stumble, much as though the "commentators" would have you believe. Yes, he took lots of wickets, but he was just one member of a TEAM.

I was thinking the same as that Midge;) How a bowler with 699 test wickets realy make sod-all difference to the team. I didnt realise you are so knowledgable about cricket.

But then again, the results for the period of his enforced exile read....

West Indies 3-1, A shadow of the team they were but still managed the one win on a dead flat track that McGill went for 1-149 in the second innings.

Bangladesh 2-0 :eek: Zimbabwe 2-0 :eek: Yes Midge you are correct, we didnt stumble againsed these two juggernaughts - why did i ever doubt you.

India 1-1 , 2drawn His stats againsed India 43 @47 Its the only country where he isnt in the 20`s Then again MacGill averages 50 agaised them so The Great Man may well have been the difference in that series, but we will never know will we.

Then in the Great Mans first innings back with more scrutiny and preasuure on him than any of us could possibly imagin, took a fifer againsed Sri Lanka, shows just how great he realy is.

All you knockers can now come out and bag him and have your fun, but the sad reality is cricket and our summers just wont ever be the same again

[craigb]

What Midge said.

It's been a privelege to watch him ply his craft over the past 15 years or so.
The game probably won't see another bowler like him in my lifetime.

Personally I reckon that the Sydney test is a perfect time for his swansong.

[Jack E]

To say he is a legend and on par with Bradman is an insult to "The Don" and all other cricketing legends.

He is a drug cheat who should have been banned, not just suspended.

He is a bit of a legend in other circles, ie pulling chicks, but he is by no means a great sporting role model.

Yes he has a great ability on the field, sometimes even with the bat.
Perhaps if we had a different media he would be portrayed in a different light but as it stands, his public wrong doings outweigh his cricketing brilliance.

Cheers, Jack.

[Grunt]

Yes, Warne was an outstanding role model and is a really great bloke. The sort of bloke who takes a bribe from a bookie and who is a drug cheat.

The guy is a tosser.

[Shedhand]

Dunno why people expect sports persons to be paragons of all that is virtuous. The only thing that counts is performance on the field in the sport they have chosen and for which they are paid big big bucks. Who cares what they do off field - unless its a hangable offence. I don't watch these guys play and say "oh great shot Warnie you legend" and then "but too bad you can't keep your fly zipped"... These people (the blokes at least and some women maybe) are chock full of testosterone and in the prime of their lives. They gives us something worth paying to see. That's their job. Besides, it takes two to tango and I haven't read anywhere that Warnies a criminal S3x fiend. The only people who say he is a poor example to kids are over zealous parents of kids who couldn't give a toss. The critics are the real tossers. Rant over.

[Grunt]

Dunno why people expect sports persons to be paragons of all that is virtuous.

I do expect them not to take bribes and to cheat.

[Shedhand]

I do expect them not to take bribes and to cheat.Did Warne do that?? Point me to your reference cobber.. :confused:

[Jack E]

Did Warne do that?? Point me to your reference cobber.. :confused:
Surely you are aware that he was suspended for using a banned substance.

Is that not cheating:confused:

Cheers, Jack

[Grunt]

And for taking money from a book maker.

[Lignum]

I would also like grunt to show where he was even implicated in relation to a bribe. David Hooks came out with the statement for his radio show and later retracted it.

Warnie was fined with Mark Waugh for giving weather and pitch infomation to a Indian bookie thats it. Hardly a hanging offence.

At the same time we all revel in the great story of Marsh and Lillie betting againsed us when we played the poms. Geeeze imagin if warne done that,

[Shedhand]

Surely you are aware that he was suspended for using a banned substance.

Is that not cheating:confused:

Cheers, JackIt was a bloody diuretic to help loose weight. How does that help a cricketer cheat. Especially one who enjoys beer, baked beans and cigars rather than 5am dips in the freezing waters off Frankston?? Have a look at some of the rubbish our AFL and ARL players shove up their noses. I've never heard of Warne being accused of cocaine, marijuana or meth abuse? Lets put his so called drug cheat label into some perspective here guys. They take diuretics to lose fluid and they drink PowerAde to replenish depleted body salts. Why is one a performance enhancer and the other not?

[Jack E]

If he was fined for it, does that not mean he did something wrong.

All I am saying is that being fined for illegally giving info to a bookie as well as being suspended for using a banned substance surely makes him ineligible for legend status.

If he is put in the hall of fame the roof will probably cave in.

I do agree that he is a pretty good bowler, although I would like to see how many of his wickets come from "cleaning up the tail":rolleyes:

I don't suffer from tall poppy syndrome, in fact warne is the only Aussie cricketer I have a problem with.

Cheers, Jack.

[Shedhand]

And for taking money from a book maker.Crikey that'd be a change....usually the other way around... :D

[Jack E]

It was a bloody diuretic to help loose weight. How does that help a cricketer cheat. Especially one who enjoys beer, baked beans and cigars rather than 5am dips in the freezing waters off Frankston?? Have a look at some of the rubbish our AFL and ARL players shove up their noses. I've never heard of Warne being accused of cocaine, marijuana or meth abuse? Lets put his so called drug cheat label into some perspective here guys. They take diuretics to lose fluid and they drink PowerAde to replenish depleted body salts. Why is one a performance enhancer and the other not?
Regardless of what one is and what the other isn't, one of them is on the banned substance list.
That means that if you take it, you are a cheat.
I am sure we will hear in this thread that he was only taking it to lose weight.
Surely he has access to some of the best trainers in the world, if you are a professional sportsman perhaps you should take the time to put in the hard yards to stay in shape.
I am also sure we will hear "but my mum gave them to me".
Yeah, sure she did, perhaps wendells mum provides him with a razor blade and a mirror too:confused:

[Lignum]

I do agree that he is a pretty good bowler, although I would like to see how many of his wickets come from "cleaning up the tail":rolleyes:



I think youl find its the class bowlers who can and do clean up the tail. I always remember big Joe Angel who was a sensational bowler and they say his major fault was his inability to clean up the tail. Thats why he never becaim a regular and was basicly banished to state level.

Anyone who tries to analyse Warnes bowling to sugest he is even slightly overated knows jack 5hit about the game

[Jack E]

He does have great bowling figures, credit where it is due.

I still maintain that his tarnished record inhibits him from being a legend of the game.

But then I have just been told I don't know much about cricket.

Cheers, Jack

[craigb]

Anyone who tries to analyse Warnes bowling to sugest he is even slightly overated knows jack 5hit about the game

Absolutely correct!

As a bloke he may be a bit of a plonker, as a cricketer he is up there with the best who have ever played the game.

[Christopha]

Firstly, he's not a great man. In fact, if any of the published accounts have even an iota of truth, he's probably one of the most brain-dead specimens of a man that one could imagine.

He is a fantastic cricketer, one of the best that has ever played the game, and will be missed when he does pull the pin. It's been a great pleasure to have been able to watch him do his stuff.

On the other hand, it will make sod-all difference to the team. Check out the results before, after and during those two years he was gone after his stupid drug incident. The team didn't even stumble, much as though the "commentators" would have you believe. Yes, he took lots of wickets, but he was just one member of a TEAM.

I'll miss his bowling when he retires, but my grandson won't even know who he was.

The king of spin is dead. Long live the new king, whoever he may be.

It's just a game!

P
:D :D :D


Very well said Pedrovich, spot on... Warnie, get your 700 and sod off to Upper Wankovia or wherever you intend "retiring" to....

[Ashore]

Sounds like a load of journlist beat-up, he proberly rang Bob jane to book his car in and the press picked up on his decision to re-tyre:rolleyes:

[Shedhand]

I think youl find its the class bowlers who can and do clean up the tail. I always remember big Joe Angel who was a sensational bowler and they say his major fault was his inability to clean up the tail. Thats why he never becaim a regular and was basicly banished to state level.

Anyone who tries to analyse Warnes bowling to sugest he is even slightly overated knows jack 5hit about the gameMate - if they did I'd be doin' 10 to life.... :D

[NewLou]

LOL

Listen to the wannabies BAG the leggie God out. I think I'll keep listening to his international peers who have played with him got to know him and admire him.

Comments like "The Best Ever" "The Greatest" etc etc etc Keep flowing from the mouth's of those with the credentials to Judge the MAn.

The Don was our greatest BAtsman N Warnies our greatest Bowler. He will remain a legend

The Baggers Flack will PAss by like the Wind

Next thing you blokes will say is Muralie dosent chuck

Shame Shame Shame

Aussie Aussie Aussie OY OY OY!

[bitingmidge]

He is a fantastic cricketer, one of the best that has ever played the game, and will be missed when he does pull the pin. It's been a great pleasure to have been able to watch him do his stuff.

(Just in case some missed part of my previous post.)

Not a cheat? Ask his missus!

A great example to kids? Well not the way I want my kids/grandkids to grow up. I wonder what his own kids really think of him?

Slimming pills? Banned because they are a masking agent for steroids, used to hasten healing of injuries. Of course it's impossible to think that "our" Warnie actually did anything wrong on purpose while recovering from surgery, so I won't even suggest that there was the remotest possiblity, nor that his "sentence" has once again recently been criticised for its leniency.

This bloke is one tall poppy that doesn't need to be pulled down, he does a pretty fair old job of that himself.

If he wasn't so darned good at throwing a ball 22 yards, we wouldn't even have this thread!

cheers,

P

[masoth]

Perhaps I'm a heretic. Perhaps I'm a cynic. Perhaps I simply don't like the bloke, but I wonder what his admirers would think of the same performances by a shiela, and the 'names' applied to her?
Ooops! By the way, I'm an old bloke - way before women's-lib.

[TassieKiwi]

I wonder what the present-day journos would've been able to dig up on the olden-day heroes had they been around then. I'm sure there was heaps of shenanigans going on that the stiff upper lip crowd conveniently 'overlooked'.
Unfortunately for the current soprts stars, wheather they like it or not they are role models, and are looked up to by thousands of impressionable kids. Hopefully we don't have a generation of fag-smoking drug taking adulterating hair implant rooters as our future sports 'stars'.
I hope too that once Warnie's had a leg over half the western world's porkable shielas he doesn't find himself head-in-hands in some quiet lonely corner looking back at the time he had a great wee family and thinking "Look what I threw away, for a few(hundred) roots!"
Spin: 10/10 - self control: 0

[craigb]

If he wasn't so darned good at throwing a ball 22 yards.....



THROWING Midge? :eek: Wash your mouth out! :D

[SPIRIT]

we just can't stand anyone acting like a normal man or woman any more
the A>C>B runs them like puppets .not even footy players can have a drink any more As for being a role model l think thats a perents job
my son and l love the spin king


arty

[rod1949]

The Wanka, Who cares? I don't.

[SPIRIT]

over 50% well over:cool:

[JDub]

Spin: 10/10 - self control: 0

LOL, great summary :D

[Lignum]

I wonder what the present-day journos would've been able to dig up on the olden-day heroes had they been around then. I'm sure there was heaps of shenanigans going on that the stiff upper lip crowd conveniently 'overlooked'.


To many to count. One who comes to mind is the other "Great Man" Keith Miller, who from all reports lived an almost identicle social lifestyle as Warnie and he was also married, but back then the press done the right thing and kept his social life seperate from his sporting life and 99% of the public were non the wiser.



To say he is a legend and on par with Bradman is an insult to "The Don" and all other cricketing legends.

Former teammate Bill O'Reilly considered Bradman cold and calculating, even anti-Catholic. Bradman was known to pass feilding instructions via a 3rd party on the field if it was to go to a Catholic because he wouldnt talk to them. Nice.

Read Bradman summaries from some former players and all this is well documented that he wasnt universaly liked and was grumpy and crabby man. He didnt even go to his own parents' funerals. Nice.

His stockbroking firm collapsed scandalously. He wouldnt drink with the rest of the team. The tightass wouldnt even share with his team mates the prize-money he earned for his own remarkable exploits (in a TEAM sport Midge)

Ian Chappell told how it was Bradmans extreme tight-fisted stinginess as head of the Australian Cricket Board that prompted Chappell and his team-mates to defect to Kerry Packer's World Series Cricket, nearly destroying the official game in the process. Nice.

So i think its unfair the anti-warne brigade tells us that he shouldnt be mentioned alongsie legends such as Bradman

[BobL]

As a cricketer Warnie is fantastic role model for young people. Some of warnies "non-raw-talent" attributes I can think of are;

Persistence: In these days when kids wilt at the first sign of difficulties warnie's "never say die" attitude is probably his best attribute.

Planning: Kids need it constantly demonstrated that raw talent only gets you so far, warnie demonstrates that you need to plan (your field) and decided carefully on what you are going to do before you do it (bowl).

Strategy and psyching out you opponent: goes with planning eg you give the batsman a couple or even quite a few easy ones and then you have a chance of bowling him around his legs.

Concentration: You can almost hear the gears going around in his head.

I reckon he is also a decent team player. I think that Cricket is a fantastic game for showing these attributes to kids and making (unfortunately) a small foil against the increasing "instant gratification" lifestyle that our kids seem to be adopting. If warnie contributes to this and I believe he does big time, then I "tips me 'at".

As for his personal life, I won't say anything as enough has been said already.

[silentC]

I have to disagree with you on one point, Midge. I think he will be remembered as a cricketing great long after the various scandals have been forgotten. His record on the pitch will stand for itself. I think your grandson, assuming he follows cricket, will know who he was, and probably his grandson too ;)

[craigb]

I have to disagree with you on one point, Midge. I think he will be remembered as a cricketing great long after the various scandals have been forgotten. His record on the pitch will stand for itself. I think your grandson, assuming he follows cricket, will know who he was, and probably his grandson too ;)

I reckon you've got that right silent. :)

[masoth]

Part of the reason the media publishes more personal information is because sports personalities are 'public property' now if compared with the players of earlier generations, and the rewards are fantastic too.

I remember hoping a movie theatre would show edited news snippets of sporting events so the hoi polloi could know something about it - only the richer members of society paid to see sport. The general public didn't even know what some sporting games looked like.

Misbehaviour IS of public interest partly because players are recieving contracted sponsorship which often include 'offensive behaviour' clauses, and 'public monies' are also made available through sports grants, etc.

[Shedhand]

The Wanka, Who cares? I don't.Only because he's not from the wild wild west. :D

[JDarvall]

Shane Warne ? Isn't he that bloke who bedded over a thousand women ? Clever fella. I'm flat out scoring in my own house.

[Shedhand]

Shane Warne ? Isn't he that bloke who bedded over a thousand women ? Clever fella. I'm flat out scoring in my own house.
LMAO :D :D :D

[bitingmidge]

Yep Silent, you're absolutely correct. (but a bloke's got to argue from somewhere!;) )

Saw Kerry O'Keefe this morning say something like the game won't be the same without Messrs Warne and McGrath, heard Ritchie say that the game has been changed forever by Warne.

It's all this sort of claptrap I can't cop.

The game was changed forever when bodyline was bowled, when the West Indies fielded ten fast bowlers, when the pyjama game was invented, when Hayden and that other bloke started taking the opposition apart in the first over. When Lillee, Thommo and Marsh were there the game was changed forever. We were never going to see a wicket keeper that could score runs as reliably as Healy, heck, I was there when the crowd booed the new bloke onto the ground in his first test. It changed back (forever?) when the selectors picked spinners again!

For those that think it'll be tough without McGrath and Warne, how've they gone in the one-dayers without 'em?

I'm saying good on 'em, they've done well, but don't think the game will stop because they arent' there!

The 700 wickets is a milestone, but check out the real comparitive stats (http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/STATS/AUS/BOWLING/TEST_BOWL_BEST_AVS_AUS.html) to see what it really means. It means that McGrath and Warne, having played 100 or so more tests than most other bowlers, are right up there with the best.

McGrath in position 8, Warne 21 places below him.

Again, I don't want to devalue their contribution (which all this talk of Warne does for McGrath anyway), just put it into perspective.

Cheers,

P

[NewLou]

700 hundred wickets is more than just a milestone its a first in history and something once thought impossible. Only freaks will achieve this benchmark

I'm not sure what you mean by real comparitive stats. The longer you play the more difficult it is to keep generating great results consistantly. Thats why the official test cricket stats are recorded the way they are.

The ability to maintain form to keep getting picked at the highest level and maintain consistant results is much more difficult than just playing 100 games it simply comes down to how a statistition benchmarks

The only way to get things in perspective is acknowledge how great our Warnie is

Whos Legend will live on as part of the modern Game for as long as the game continues to be played internationally

Long live the King

Warnie...............Warnie................warnie.............warnie.............

[Dean]

The king of spin is dead. Long live the new king, whoever he may be.


John Howard is in the Australian team now? Damn... He already has a pretty good reputation as a king of spin! :p

Warnie a legend or king? Nah, he doesnt even rate in the same league as other "great" sports stars such as Lance Armstrong. I don;t want my kids to idolise a personality like Shane Warne. Kids use their mobile phones too much already these days for text messaging! :) :)

[JDarvall]

The only way to get things in perspective is acknowledge how great our Warnie is

.............

:confused: yeeeeeeh, he's a great man alright....he's bedded over a thousand women !...hasn't he ? .....freeken freak of smoking nature.

[bitingmidge]

I remember hoping a movie theatre would show edited news snippets of sporting events so the hoi polloi could know something about it - only the richer members of society paid to see sport. The general public didn't even know what some sporting games looked like.

There must haved been an awful lot of rich buggers around when the bodyline series was on then, some of the attendance records from then have stood till this year!!

:eek:

P

[echnidna]

:confused: yeeeeeeh, he's a great man alright....he's bedded over a thousand women !...hasn't he ? .....freeken freak of smoking nature.

Poor Bathplug

[silentC]

He said 'bedded' not 'wedded' :D

[Rossluck]

Yep Silent, you're absolutely correct. (but a bloke's got to argue from somewhere!;) )

Saw Kerry O'Keefe this morning say something like the game won't be the same without Messrs Warne and McGrath, heard Ritchie say that the game has been changed forever by Warne.

It's all this sort of claptrap I can't cop.

P

I disagree with your disagreement of what Kerry O'Keefe said, Midge. The thing with Warne is that he emerged after the West Indian team had indicated that the way to dominate tests was to torture opposition batsman with large calibre rifle fire. You must remember the days of four WI fast bowlers alternatively wandering slowly back to the mark. It was damned boring.

By comparison, watching Warne playing psychological cat and mouse with batsmen is fascinating. What Warne did was to reconstitute slow bowling as a more interesting alternative to pure muscle bowling.

So far as his private life is concerned, I've said it before on this forum and I'll say it again: "Let he who is without sin throw the first stone". As an example, according to statistics of infidelity, a large proportion of the people who lambasted Wayne Carey for committing adultry have done the same.

[Grunt]

The worst part of Warnie retiring is that he'll now be a commentator on Channel 9. :(

[Daddles]

Hey Midge, starting to feel like one of the pommy cricketers yet? It seems everyone's picking on you :D

Richard

Warnie - great cricketer, pity he's a tosser

[bitingmidge]

Hey Midge, starting to feel like one of the pommy cricketers yet? It seems everyone's picking on you :D

Nah, I feel like Warnie! I'm reconstituting slow posting as a more interesting alternative to pure muscle posting.

Eventually I'll wear the buggers down!

The stats speak for themselves. He's played in more tests, at a time when there are more tests in a year than some played in a lifetime, and used a diuretic which could have been used to mask the steroids which he could have used to help him through.

Now Miller, Lillee and that crowd.. well they just used beer!

:D :D :D
P

[Grunt]

700 hundred wickets is more than just a milestone its a first in history and something once thought impossible.

Only because they play more Test now than they used to. It'll be broken by Murali.

[bitingmidge]

Only because they play more Test now than they used to. It'll be broken by Murali.

Murali has played 33 fewer tests than Warne, and has 26 fewer wickets.

In terms of averages, he is one place below McGrath, Warne (for all his entertainment value) doesn't make the first page.

http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/STATS/TESTS/BOWLING/TEST_BOWL_BEST_AVS.html

I think once again it's interesting that the facts don't support the legend! :eek:

Cheers,

P:D

[echnidna]

Midge the Myth Buster :D

[NewLou]

It time you started to get into quensland politics midge.....................

you've certainly mastered the art of tying to cook the books!!!!!

Warnie.............Warnie...........Warnie.........Warnie

[Shedhand]

In Bradman's day tests were longer and they bowled 8 ball overs. Any wonder he and his contemporaries scored so many runs. Anyway Bradman wasn't that great. He was in his prime when the player pool had been decimated by the 2nd war. It's one thing to achieve great milestones when surrounded by mediocrity - its another thing altogether to achieve personal greatness.
Warne's greatness has been earned by his on-field performances. He does deserve to be hung in the Long Room at Lords with the legends of the game. He will be sadly missed by cricket lovers and if his retirement allows him to reconcile with his honey and kids then good luck to him. I wish him well. ;)

[Doughboy]

Murali has his wickets granted but have a look at how many tests his team has played against the minnows of cricket ..... that compared to Mr Warne is impressive in terms of wickets but play the top four or five teams as much as the Aussies have and me thinks Murali would be struggling to be close to the Warne. That said

Warne may well be the greatest leg spinner ever to play the game ........ it does not make him a good person.

Pete

[Shedhand]

Murali has his wickets granted but have a look at how many tests his team has played against the minnows of cricket ..... that compared to Mr Warne is impressive in terms of wickets but play the top four or five teams as much as the Aussies have and me thinks Murali would be struggling to be close to the Warne. That said

Warne may well be the greatest leg spinner ever to play the game ........ it does not make him a good person.

PeteMurali IS a chucker and his bowling record should expunged. :mad:

[Grunt]

Warnie takes more balls and gives away more runs per wicket than 50 other players. In what way is that cooking the books.

You just get excited about Warnie taking 700+ wickets and think that that is the be all and end all of being the greatest.

If that is the case the Murali will become the greatest bowler of all time. Brian Lara would be the greatest batsman of all time and Bradman would be 30ish in the world.

I will say that Warnie is the best leggie of all time but in my time I think Lillie, Ambrose, McGrath to name a few were better bowlers with more impact than Warne.

[Grunt]

He was in his prime when the player pool had been decimated by the 2nd war.

He only played in one series after the war. He played his last test in 1948. There was no Test cricket played during the war. He was also 40 years old when he played his last test.

[Grunt]

Controversy of bowling action

Muralitharan's bowling action is controversial amongst many purists, as to some it appears that it contravenes the laws of the game by straightening the arm in the course of the delivery. This is despite his action being exonerated unanimously by an international panel consisting of members from every Test playing nation. The controversy came to a head after Australian umpire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umpire_%28cricket%29) Darrell Hair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darrell_Hair) called a "no ball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_ball)" for an illegal action seven times during the Boxing Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_Day) Test match in Melbourne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne), Australia, in 1995 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995). After discussions between the Australian Cricket Board (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cricket_Australia) and the Board of Control for Cricket in Sri Lanka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Lanka_Cricket), Hair umpired no further games involving Sri Lanka in the season. Reaction to Hair's actions was mixed. He was widely criticised in Sri Lanka and elsewhere, but some, particularly in Australia, felt that it was long overdue. It would be simplistic to assume that opinion was divided purely by nationality though, with Australia's greatest ever cricketer, Sir Donald Bradman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Bradman), quoted as saying it was the "worst example of umpiring that [he had] witnessed, and against everything the game stands for. Clearly Murali does not throw the ball". [17] (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/135717.html) [18] (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/12/04/1101923389044.html?oneclick=true)
Muralitharan was later no-balled for throwing by Australian umpires Ross Emerson and Tony McQuillan in a one-day international (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-day_international) against the West Indies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Indian_cricket_team), in Brisbane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane), Australia, in the same summer. Following this season, Muralitharan underwent biomechanical tests in Hong Kong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong) and Australia under the supervision of bowling experts, who cleared his action as legal, citing a congenital defect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_defect) in Muralitharan's arm which makes him incapable of straightening it, but giving the appearance of the arm straightening in the bowling action. [19] (http://www-ieem.ust.hk/dfaculty/ravi/murali01.html)
Doubts about Muralitharan's action persisted, particularly in Australia. In 1999 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999), he was once again called for throwing by umpire Ross Emerson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Emerson) in an ODI against England, at the Adelaide Oval (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelaide_Oval) in Australia. The Sri Lankan team almost abandoned the match, but after instructions from the president of the BCCSL (relayed to captain Arjuna Ranatunga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arjuna_Ranatunga) by mobile phone) the game resumed.
Muralitharan took his 500th Test wicket in the second Test against Australia in Kandy on March 16 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_16), 2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004). At the end of the series his doosra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doosra) delivery was officially called into question by match referee Chris Broad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Broad) and Muralitharan was entered into a two-stage remedial process for bowlers with suspect actions under the supervision of the International Cricket Council (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Cricket_Council) ('ICC'). The delivery was examined by biomechanical experts who found it to exceed the current tolerance limit, regarding the degree of bend in the arm, of five degrees for slow bowlers. Australian prime minister (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_minister) John Howard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Howard) weighed in, controversially labelling Murali a 'chucker'. Despite this he won accolades from former Australian captain, Steve Waugh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Waugh), who said he was "the Don Bradman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Bradman) of bowling". Waugh went on to say that he felt Muralitharan's action was perfectly legal.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cd/Muralitharan_bowling_run-up.png/250px-Muralitharan_bowling_run-up.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Muralitharan_bowling_run-up.png) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Muralitharan_bowling_run-up.png)
Bowling action of Muttiah Muralitharan


Muralitharan has subsequently been videotaped bowling while wearing an arm brace that prevents the straightening of the arm, in an attempt to clear his name once and for all. It appears unlikely that this will ever happen, as his critics maintain that only his bowling during real matches can be considered and that it's possible he changes his action when under scrutiny. Some experts who have viewed such tests have dismissed their value. Former Indian spinner Bishan Bedi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishan_Bedi) has been particularly vocal in his criticism of the testing, asking, "Why should a bowler be allowed to chuck because he has a defective arm?" and comparing Muralitharan's action with that of "javelin thrower".
There is speculation that the match referee's actions were an attempt to derail Muralitharan's attempt to become the all-time leading wicket taker. Former players like Arjuna Ranatunga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arjuna_Ranatunga) believe this to be a "white conspiracy" with some Australians and Englishmen wishing to get the name Muralitharan expunged from cricket records. Ranatunga asserted that Muralitharan was being picked on because of his skin colour. Ranatunga's actions were seen by some as an attempt to deflect inquiries over Muralitharan's action by branding those making such claims with the pejorative term "racist". It should be noted that Muralitharan has many powerful allies in Australia and England. Examples include Mark Nicholas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Nicholas), Bruce Yardley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Yardley), Andrew Flintoff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Flintoff), and Steve Waugh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Waugh), all of whom have supported Muralitharan publicly. It is claimed that Sir Donald Bradman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Bradman) also spoke very highly of Muralitharan. Not to mention, Asian greats like Sunil Gavaskar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunil_Gavaskar), Wasim Akram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasim_Akram), Imran Khan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imran_Khan) and others have always stood behind him.
An extensive ICC study, the results of which were released in November 2004, was conducted to investigate the 'chucking issue'. A panel of former Test players, with the assistance of several biomechanical experts, revealed that 99% of all bowlers bent their arms when bowling. Only one player in the world (batsman Ramnaresh Sarwan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramnaresh_Sarwan)) did not transgress the rules when tested. Muralitharan's off break (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off_break) and topspinner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topspinner) were deemed within the rules (2 to 5 degree straightening), but the doosra was still an area of concern. The flexion measured when bowling the doosra was not excessive, however, considering the amount of flexion in the actions of many other bowlers. The results of the study has led to the ICC issuing a guideline allowing for extensions or hyperextensions of up to 15 degrees thus deeming Muralitharan's doosra to be legal. [20] (http://www.icc-cricket.com/icc/faq/bowling.html)
This scientific evidence has gone a long way to convincing some of Muralitharan's former critics that his action is legal. Two vocal critics of Murilatharan's action were former Test cricketers: West Indian Michael Holding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Holding), a member of the ICC's Advisory Panel on Illegal Deliveries, and Australian Dean Jones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Jones_%28cricketer%29). Holding had been quoted as being in "110% agreement" with Bedi regarding Muralitharan's action and Jones had said "by my interpretation, I think he throws it". Following the ICC study, Holding, a member of the panel that conducted the ICC study proclaimed, "The scientific evidence is overwhelming... When bowlers who to the naked eye look to have pure actions are thoroughly analysed with the sophisticated technology now in place, they are likely to be shown as straightening their arm by 11 and in some cases 12 degrees. Under a strict interpretation of the law, these players are breaking the rules. The game needs to deal with this reality and make its judgment as to how it accommodates this fact."[21] (http://cricket-online.org/news.php?sid=4327)

[NewLou]

BAh!

There has been no greater impact bowler in the modern game greater than Shane Warne.

I'm fans of all the quicks ............. have seen them all bowl n terriorise batsmen. BUT no other bowler in the history of cricket has owned more batsmen or befuddled more top order batsman than Shane Warne.

Why elsedo you think his contemporaries suggest hes the greatest ever. To compare stats of spinners to the quicks just shows how easily numbers can be manipulated to champion a cause.

Dont you think its obvious that spinners by the nature of their art will be more expensive

Its raw wicket taking that matters n I bet we never see a quick take 700 wickets. Of course this a special number its never been done by a genuine bowler before to minimise its importance is like saying a hat trick aint special

[JDarvall]

.....wickets ?.....runs per wicket ? ....who cares,,,, how many women per test match is a far more interesting statistic

[Daddles]

In Bradman's day tests were longer and they bowled 8 ball overs. Any wonder he and his contemporaries scored so many runs. Anyway Bradman wasn't that great. He was in his prime when the player pool had been decimated by the 2nd war. It's one thing to achieve great milestones when surrounded by mediocrity - its another thing altogether to achieve personal greatness.
Warne's greatness has been earned by his on-field performances. He does deserve to be hung in the Long Room at Lords with the legends of the game. He will be sadly missed by cricket lovers and if his retirement allows him to reconcile with his honey and kids then good luck to him. I wish him well. ;)

Sorry mate. This just blew your credibility and, I think, handed the debate to Midge.:D (which is a bugger because I tend to agree with your assessment of Warne :rolleyes: )

Bradman was far and away the greatest ever. His records are even more remarkable when you consider the war and the conditions. No other player has had the impact that he has. Indeed, such was his impact that a very good English attack had to devise new tactics to defeat him, a move that led to a change in the rules (only Walter Lindrum of billiards has managed that feat).

Richard

[Shedhand]

Sorry mate. This just blew your credibility and, I think, handed the debate to Midge.:D (which is a bugger because I tend to agree with your assessment of Warne :rolleyes: )

Bradman was far and away the greatest ever. His records are even more remarkable when you consider the war and the conditions. No other player has had the impact that he has. Indeed, such was his impact that a very good English attack had to devise new tactics to defeat him, a move that led to a change in the rules (only Walter Lindrum of billiards has managed that feat).

Richardbut hang on. We're comparing a bowler and a batsman!! Apples and oranges. Bradman had an impact on the game, no argument there. Warne's impact on the game has been just as important. Leg Spinning was a dead if not dying art before he came along. I remember watching test cricket as a youngster and how damn boring is was to watch 2 spinners operating at each end and the batsmen blocking, blocking and bloody blocking. It was just so boring. Then we had the years of shotgun bowlers, Thommo, Lillee, Pascoe, Big Bird and all the other quicks. That got boring too because batsmen couldn't score for trying to protect themselves death and mayhem. The along came Warnie. His style of leg spin actually enticed the batsmen to have a go. But, even the good ones got sucked in. Warne - the greatest BOWLER ever to grace a pitch and Bradman (reluctantly conceded) the greatest batsman to grace the pitch. And dickie Bird for best Umpie ever.... :D

[Grunt]

Warne - the greatest BOWLERYou wouldn't be Victorian by any chance.

Lillie, Lillie, Lillie

[Daddles]

I agree with you about Warnie Shedhand - ya lost the fight when you downgraded Bradman :D (yes, I'm being picky :D)

The thing with Warne is that he took cricket away from pace and re-introduced spin. Maybe it was heading that way, but my recollection is that we had good spinners and they couldn't get a look in before Warne. He had the ability to make a new ball on a paceman's wicket spin like an old ball on a roll of toffee. But it wasn't just the amount of spin, others can do that, it was his cunning and probably his gamesmanship as well. Nah, he's a great bowler, the greatest spinner at least. And like many heros, the underside was tarnished.

So I intend to remember the bowler ... and I reckon that'll be a mighty pleasurable thing to do.

Richard

[Grunt]

So I intend to remember the bowler ... and I reckon that'll be a mighty pleasurable thing to do.


You won't be able to forget him, he'll be on Channel 9 every summer.

[Shedhand]

..anyway, I reckon we should all go down to the shed and make some shavings...and maybe a beer (its bloody hot here).. :D

[Lignum]

You won't be able to forget him, he'll be on Channel 9 every summer.

And thank god for that. The blokes recognised as having one of the greatest cricket minds of the modern era. Last night on a Warne discussion/tribute on the telly they said he was the "Greatest Captain" Australia never had. Ill drink to that.

[Shedhand]

You wouldn't be Victorian by any chance.

Lillie, Lillie, Lillie
Nope, perish the thought. :eek: ..Tassie born and bred :p - and no, my parents aren't blood relatives - :rolleyes: (and Punter hasn't finished yet. He could end up being the greatest of them all - his peers are already saying that publicly)..

PS: I think its LILLEE.

[Shedhand]

Is this allowed?

Have a look here (http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2006/s1816675.htm)if you're interested. Gideon Haigh ( who I think is widely respected as a cricket writer) on Warne.

I nicely balanced summary of the man and his game. :)

[Lignum]

Is this allowed?

Have a look here (http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2006/s1816675.htm)if you're interested. Gideon Haigh ( who I think is widely respected as a cricket writer) on Warne.

I nicely balanced summary of the man and his game. :)

Excelent read Sheddie;) It wont sink in for a while but its increadably sad to think we will see only four more innings of the greatest ever bowler the game has seen.


Imagine the lucky buggers on Boxing Day if the Poms win the toss and bat. When Warnie comes on to bowl ill bet every possession i own and all the money i have that the roar and fever of the crowd will have NEVER been as loud or emotional. They say big boys dont cry, but ill have a few klenex ready.

[masoth]

There must haved been an awful lot of rich buggers around when the bodyline series was on then, some of the attendance records from then have stood till this year!!

:eek:

P
Ordinarily I don't reply, but this time I'd like to point out my statement was regarding "sport" not cricket alone which was identified as 'the people's game', partly because entry was so cheap.:cool:

[masoth]

...........good English attack had to devise new tactics to defeat him, a move that led to a change in the rules (only Walter Lindrum of billiards has managed that feat).

Richard

er, in so far as bowling changes to the laws of cricket don't forget Greg Chapple ps: Ooops, should read 'Chappell".

[TassieKiwi]

Chapple? Who's Chapple? (Australian selective memory):rolleyes:

It's only a game fellas. You don't have to be too smart to play cricket.

Now rugby, there's a game!


:p

[silentC]

Did you watch Rugby in the 70's on ABC last night? One of the guys said "people think the Wallabies hate the All Blacks. They've it all wrong. We HATE England more than anything else."

[Shedhand]

er, in so far as bowling changes to the laws of cricket don't forget Greg Chapple ps: Ooops, should read 'Chappel".Jeepers Mas, 2 posts in one day...get back to the shed you lazy bugger... :D

[silentC]

Australian paceman Glenn McGrath hasn't ruled out extending his Test career beyond the Ashes series and says he won't necessarily follow Shane Warne into retirement.
So in other words, he said nothing at all. Got to love journos. The blurb on the home page is simply majestic:


Australian paceman Glenn McGrath hasn't says he won't necessarily follow Shane Warne into retirement.
??

[Driver]

Australian paceman Glenn McGrath hasn't says he won't necessarily follow Shane Warne into retirement.



So .... there are two possibilities here:-

(Leaving aside the many and varied potential future actions of Glenn McGrath)

1. The journo who wrote this convoluted piece of tortured gibberish is trying to be very clever and cover several angles at once, or

2. The journo who wrote it is a complete tosser with a barely adequate grasp of what is almost certainly his or her native language.

Anyone taking bets on which is correct?

[echnidna]

both

[silentC]

My first thought was that they meant to say "Australian paceman Glenn McGrath hasn't said he won't necessarily follow Shane Warne into retirement", which would confuse the hell out of anyone and heaven forbid any Russian readers should try to make sense of it.

Then I thought maybe it was "Australian paceman Glenn McGrath has said he won't necessarily follow Shane Warne into retirement", which makes a bit more sense, but still says nothing at all.

Maybe it's meant to be "Australian paceman Glenn McGrath says he won't necessarily follow Shane Warne into retirement", which is the same outcome as above - ie nothing.

No, in hindsight, I think you are right... The journo is a complete tosser.... :D

[bitingmidge]

2. The journo who wrote it is a complete tosser
Murali is a journo now?

P
:D :D :D

[Grunt]

I thought that this thread was about Warnie being a tosser?

[Doughboy]

Hasn't he left already!!!!

Pete