Camera and Photography - Digi and Film

[Clinton1]

I've a few questions, and am hoping a photography guru can help me out.

1. I've got to buy 2 digi camera's, both around $200 or so. Whats a good camera for this price, and what sort of 'minimum shutter release' can I expect. Or am I dreaming? :rolleyes:
I was looking at a Canon A430 today ($175) and it took 2 seconds to take the shot after the button was pressed. Can I get better than this for my $?

2. When I get film developed, if the developers is a bit dodgy, will the negatives be poor quality?
I'm off to a developing country next year, and in some countries I've noticed the developers give me slightly blurred pics back, with poor colour. I can handle this when I am overseas.... but I don't want to get the film developed if it means the negatives will be poor as well. So, will the negatives be affected?

As always, thanks in advance....

[craigb]

Am i missing something here? If it's a digi camera why do you care about film.? :confused:

[Clinton1]

I have a film camera as well, which I like to play with. This is my preferred camera.
I will also get a digi to slip in the pocket for when the film camera is not practical.

[Grunt]

Sadly, you'll need to spend a bit more to get decent shutter release speed. I think closer to $1000. It's the thing that really separates the DSLR/Prosumer cameras from the Point and Shoot jobbies.

I've never had a problem with developing photos in Asia. However, I've been a digital user for the last 6 or so years.

[Stuart]

1. I've got to buy 2 digi camera's, both around $200 or so. Whats a good camera for this price, and what sort of 'minimum shutter release' can I expect. Or am I dreaming? :rolleyes:
I was looking at a Canon A430 today ($175) and it took 2 seconds to take the shot after the button was pressed. Can I get better than this for my $?

Does it have to be max $200? For a little more, you could get into the Canon Powershots, and my personal preference is the IXUS range - very compact, good quality, fast shutter release. (none of this 2 second crap). Get a fast storage card too - the fastest you can afford.

Been playing with iPods as well, using the iPod camera connector. Means that I can upload photos from the camera to the iPod for storage in the field. Means I have 80GB of storage, rather than the 1GB on the card, without getting back to a computer. Might be very beneficial overseas. Also, is harddrive storage, rather than relying on the SD (or CF card) as storage.


2. When I get film developed, if the developers is a bit dodgy, will the negatives be poor quality?

No, well probably not - so long as they keep their chemicals fresh. There is no real input by the operator in developing the neg, but they have a lot of influence over the result of going from neg to print. So you can have perfectly good negs, and poor prints, but the important thing is safe. If you at all concerned, leave the films undeveloped until you return. However, I'd suggest getting current info on this - since I've been travelling, airports (particularly US and Singapore) have started using more powerful xray machines that are no where near as film-friendly. Don't be tempted by the lead bags sold to 'protect' the film from xray machines - if the operator can't see inside the bag, they just turn up the juice to full and blast their way through. Once upon a time you could hand the films around (I always travelled with a couple of 1000ASA films in the mix, so the operators were forced to hand-check, but I don't know if they hand-check anything these days.


I'm off to a developing country next year, and in some countries I've noticed the developers give me slightly blurred pics back, with poor colour. I can handle this when I am overseas.... but I don't want to get the film developed if it means the negatives will be poor as well. If I was doing a trip where I was returning to one place a bit, I'd find a good film dev place, and give them 1 film to try, just to reassure myself, then stick with them as much as possible.

[woodbe]

Clinton,

check the reviews at www.dpreview.com

Unfortunately, for the money you want to spend, you might not find much better than the canon, but definitely compare a few brands like Fuji and Olympus against it. Like Grunt says, you can eliminate the problem by moving to DSLR, but they are a lot more money...

woodbe.

[Master Splinter]

1) If you are looking at the more 'compact' digital cameras, dont get hooked on the megapixel count; the smaller sensors used in the cameras tend to be noisier (Nikon, I'm looking at you) so you dont really get the benefit of mega-megapixels.

4 megapixel cameras seem to be fine for point and shoot photography, I'd be more interested in getting a good optical zoom range (not digital, thats just cropping!) than more pixels, especially if you want to keep the price around $200ish

I think the small Fuji cameras are pretty good value for money. Not keen on the smaller Nikons, I like the Canons (the IXUS is basically the camera to beat) and the Kodaks are ok.

2) Yes, if the film processing is dodgy, the negs will be dodgy, and there is nothing you can do about this after the event. You *may* be able to fix a wonky image once you've scanned the neg into Photoshop, but the key word is *may*.

Pesonally, I'd ditch the film camera. Buy a few extra 1 gigabyte compact flash cards ($38 each at the local computer fair for cards from major memory manufacturers like NCP or Kingston) and you'll have enough to take a thousand or so pics without needing to copy the card to a pc. The memory cards are also stupidly durable; mine have lived through car dashboards in summer and one has even been through the washing machine with no data loss.

But - if you will be away from modern amenities (power), you may want to consider what sort of battery the camera takes. Alkaline AA batteries you can get almost anywhere; but if your nifty little li-ion battery pack goes flat, that's it till you get to a recharger! (figure about 200 pics on a li-ion battery)

[Clinton1]

Thanks all for your replies.... I'll take a while to think about the replies, and see if I need to ask more to help me understand.

To go on:
The Canon A430 has a "min shutter - 2 secs" and the A530 has a "min shutter - 15 secs"
What does "min shutter" mean?


http://www.teds.com.au/www/6/1001102/displayproduct/1284402_1005967_.html

Reading the product specs..... its just confusing... don't know what it all means.

Basically its an extra $100 to go from A430 to A530 - for that I get 1 Meg extra?

Anything else in the specs I should look for..,. my understanding is that the 530 is the next model up from the 430, so it should be pretty much the same technology, and $100 for 1Meg isn't anything I'll really notice.
Does that sound about right?

[Iain]

Back to film for a mo, how long are you going for and can you wait to bring your negs back home?
If you can invest in a lead lined bag to store the film in (Airport X-Ray proof) and take a stroll to Bond Colour in Richmond.
They are a pro lab and have a variety of services, their quality is excellent and refresh the chemicals as required, not when they notice a colour shift.
If you really want top quality they also use one shot, one batch of film, one batch of fresh chemical, but be aware that you pay big time for this.

[woodbe]

The Canon A430 has a "min shutter - 2 secs" and the A530 has a "min shutter - 15 secs"
What does "min shutter" mean?


What they mean is maximum exposure time, and the result is that the A530 is better able to cope with available light photos in low light situations - like fireworks or moonlit scenes etc.

If it were me with this budget, I'd spend a little time sorting the cameras by the specs and then go play with the likely candidates at Teds or similar.

The key differentiators for me would be:

Startup time
Shutter lag
Optical Zoom range
Macro capability and ease of use
Image quality in low light

Don't get too wound up in the specs. Even the simplest camera has enough specs to knock your socks off these days :) Anything over 3 megapixels will be just fine, which is almost everything these days.

woodbe.

[Grunt]

Minimum shutter speed is how long you can keep the shutter open for. Used for low light/night photography. Only useful if you have a tripod.
Maximum shutter speed is how fast the shutter can open and close. Used for action shots.

There is not a lot of difference between the two. The extra megapixel will allow you to print a marginally larger picture.

The A530 will allow you to shoot in lower light without using the flash with a higher ISO and a slightly wider aperture. It also has manual focus.

The only other thing that I see that is worthwhile on the more expensive one is the USB 2.0. If your computer can cope with 2.0 then you'll be able to transfer you photos to the computer much faster.

[woodbe]

If you can invest in a lead lined bag to store the film in (Airport X-Ray proof) and take a stroll to Bond Colour in Richmond.


Iain, hate to tell you, but these days, the xray bags are next to useless. The xray operators just up the power if there is something they can't see through!

The only way of getting film through is to plead for hand inspection. Sometimes, they will zap it anyway, but if you make it very easy to inspect, you might be lucky.

Good to hear Bond Colour is still going. They were my lab of choice when I lived in Melbourne.

woodbe.

[Stuart]

Think I already covered xray bags in my post - oh wait - forgot, no one reads other peoples posts any more.

[woodbe]

Don't worry Stuart, you have to say things 3 times before it sinks in. Only 1 more to go :)

woodbe.

[sbranden]

is anyone aware of a good digital photography forum?

I am particularly interested in asking questions about settings for specific scenes.

shaun

[Clinton1]

I think that with the film - I'll try and find a decent place to develop them, and for 'important' rolls return them to Aus.... and thanks for the tip on the Richmond store - good one!
I reckon I can bypass the x-ray machines... its not what you know but who you buy beer for, right??

Yes, $200 is about my budget although the missus said hers can wait and be purchased through Duty Free.... So I guess I'll go up to @$300.

$300 should get me the Canon A530... unless I go the tightars3 route and just get the A430 for $175 and get a better/spare battery and bigger memory card.

Ditch the film camera.... Noooooo, bar the doors, the philistines are coming! Seriously, I like it... its good to play with.

So, A430 or A530, extra memory and rechargable battery and recharger... also find a computer to have the images burnt to disk on.

Thanks all for the hand holding...
makes me feel a bit more comfortable with spending the equivalent of 1/4 of my Festool Domino savings on a bit of 'soon to be redundant' digital crud. :rolleyes:

I suppose I'd better just find a decent 'blog' site to upload them to....

[woodbe]

Another option for developing at home would be to post the film back, and so avoid the airport xray. I don't know if postal articles get zapped, but it would be worth checking. On our recent trip, one of us had a dvd-burning laptop, so we posted a dvd of all our photos once a week back home, and they all turned up without a scratch...

woodbe.

[ozwinner]

Been playing with iPods as well, using the iPod camera connector. Means that I can upload photos from the camera to the iPod for storage in the field. Means I have 80GB of storage, rather than the 1GB on the card, without getting back to a computer. Might be very beneficial overseas. Also, is harddrive storage, rather than relying on the SD (or CF card) as storage.




Excellent tip there with the iPod Stu.

Al :cool:

[Malibu]

Just a quick two-bob's worth...
I prefer my Pentax SLR 35mm, but I had a need for a small and easily transportable camera, so I opted for digital.
I got a Pentax (Hey, I love Pentax stuff) Optio S4 for about $750 a couple of years ago. Now they've upgraded the pixel count and downgraded the price. An Optio S5 I think is around the $300 mark and well worth the price. Even in digital, the lens is the failing point and that's why I went for Pentax.

[Iain]

Think I already covered xray bags in my post - oh wait - forgot, no one reads other peoples posts any more.

But not a decent pro lab, just a general overview and comment, plus my own experience with a really good processing and printing outfit, at not much more than the shopping centre '1 hour processing' operations.
No, I glance through responses and add my own;)

[Stuart]

True, they are just a bit scarce in 3rd world countries. Didn't come across one in Egypt for example- bought all my films back to Oz to get them developed. Since then however, there has been a significant leap in xray machines - a new one came onto the market, but it is way too powerful for film, and the operators don't care. It is the one that can penetrate the lead lined film bags without straining.

And then 9/11 happened, so I can only imagine how much worse it got after that.

As to mail - all parcels are xrayed. However, I don't know what model of machine they use - it may be safer on film.

Damage from Xray machines is cumulative - one machine may not be enough to cause obvious fogging, but if you pass through a few, the damage gets worse and worse.

[ian]

Clinton
there's no longer such a beast as "Duty Free"
all you get back is the GST, it doesn't matter where you buy, if it's within 1 month of departure just front to counter within the terminal, show the item, show the receipt, hand over the credit card (for the GST refund) and that's it.

as to what camera to get
list the important specs in priority order
1) very short shutter lag
2) power up speed
3) optical zoom range
4) battery (my favourite is Lithium Ion, others prefer AAs)
5) storage media

that's probably it, though at 7Mpixels, you can crop to compensate for a shorter zoom range

ian

[MajorPanic]

Hey Clinton,


1. I've got to buy 2 digi camera's, both around $200 or so. Whats a good camera for this price, and what sort of 'minimum shutter release' can I expect. Or am I dreaming? :rolleyes:
I was looking at a Canon A430 today ($175) and it took 2 seconds to take the shot after the button was pressed. Can I get better than this for my $?Spend more money .... Sorry but that's the truth of the matter.

2. When I get film developed, if the developers is a bit dodgy, will the negatives be poor quality?
I'm off to a developing country next year, and in some countries I've noticed the developers give me slightly blurred pics back, with poor colour. I can handle this when I am overseas.... but I don't want to get the film developed if it means the negatives will be poor as well. So, will the negatives be affected?DO NOT GET pictures printed.
When you get to your destination, find the local version of the Yellow Pages & look up PROFESSIONAL labs or better still find a local pro photographer & ask him/her what lab they use. Once you are armed with this info, go & have your film processed in strip & not printed. The negs will be in a long roll, usually inside a plastic sleeve. Just send them home for printing later.

[Groggy]

Stu, I recently bought my daughter an IXUS 900Ti (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120036132600). It cost a bit but is just the ticket. It came with a 2gb card that is very quick.

I like the ipod tip - ta!

[bitingmidge]

For the most objective review of a range of digital cameras I've seen in a while, see here:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/2006-camera-guide.htm

by the same author (Ken Rockwell) and worth a look are also articles on:

Which is better, a $150.00 or a $5,000.00 camera (http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/150-vs-5000-dollar-camera.htm)

and a (slightly) contradictory article Classes of Digital Camera (http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/2dig.htm) in which he explains that even the most expensive Point and Shoot Camera is not really suitable for photographing people because of the time lag factor, and from experience I have to agree with that.

On the other hand the question could have been whether it's possible to get a set of $5.00 chisels that hold their edge. There is no one answer, but you might pick up one second had that could....

Cheers,

P
:cool:

[bitingmidge]

I suppose I'd better just find a decent 'blog' site to upload them to....

www.flickr.com

cheers,

P
:D

[Clinton1]

Thanks for the links P!

Well, I went and paid $175 for the Canon A430, and then spent a bit more on a Scandisk Ultra II SD card, Lithium rechargers and a recharger, and a carry case..... :rolleyes:

Now, I can solemnly swear that this was the absolute best camera for me .... and no-one had better say different!! ;)

Seriously, thanks for all your input. :)

[Stuart]

flickr is an interesting site - I have a few of my photos on there as well.

Another site worth looking at (for those still looking that is!) is

www.steves-digicams.com Think it has been mentioned on here before - great for comparing models. ( camera models, not photography models :rolleyes: )