can mapp gas silver solder

[davo_scuba]

hi all
Is it possible to silver solder up to 15% with mapp gas.
I've tried to use just normal propane but was unable to get it hot enough.
I know that you can hire the oxy/act equipment from the hire company @ $35 a day but would like to take a week or so (I am not that fast and always like a triumphant beer after a few joins) so it's going to take a while.
any advise would be apreciated.
cheers davo

[Bleedin Thumb]

Davo what are you joining?

[David L]

Chack out this thread at #9
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=17580
I think you will find it is the best option

[davo_scuba]

:) thanks for the replys, thought i had seen it before somewhere,
had a quick look and they say it can be done it's only 1/2 inch fittings so should be ok. I will have a go tonight and a triumphant beer (IT'S HOT WORK you all unstand).

regards davo

[davo_scuba]

i would advise anyone trying to sliver solder 15% with mapp gas to forget it. had a go and could not get it hot enough for anything other than straight conectors. ended up getting an oxy/acet set up through friends of friends via a back of a lorry.

took a few joins but a easy as and no problem with heat.
if you can get the equipment (rang round a few hire companys no joy for anything less than $200) it's worth doing yourself and if you can get the stuff for free yeppppeeeee!!!!

[bricks]

I only use the hand held torches, and im making aliving out of it, harder if your outside and its windy but otherwise, its fine, you couldnt do it coz ya dont know what your doing.

[davo_scuba]

bbbricks :q
I was not sure if i had the right torch on the top of the bottle as I was given it, and have seen the mapp bottle and torch for about 80 bucks but did not go for that, so i might have had the wrong torch nozzle, but as far as getting hot enough for some 20mm brass fittings and threaded pipe etc no chance.
as you have so nicely put in you reply "you couldn't do it coz ya don't know what your doing." I don't believe that to be true when joining/ welding brazing metals and alloys together, having done that sort of work in many different forms and locations throughout the world over many years. I have completed the job with no trouble once I could get a hot enough flame.(and many triumphant beers later:D )
Maybe with the right torch mapp gas could do what i wanted, but as i was not charging by the hour like most doggy tradie plumbers I went for quickest and best option.
The jobs complete with no chance of leeks (except when i put up the cement sheet and screw into a pipe :doh: ) so i found that this worked best and was giving my (unplumbing professional) opinion.:D

So to all the weekend warriors either take this on board or not but if you see a Ute with a plumbers logo on it see if they have a set of oxy/acey bottles in the back then make up your mind which to use, although many use plastic pipes these days.(or go and ask at a plumbing shop) like me you will find that some say yes and others say no,

[bricks]

Did not mean to offend davo, just that for a start map gas is a longer flame most people hold it too close to the pipe. my torch cost me $350 bucks and is a map gass branded item, for $80 bucks id say your torch is dodgy, The only time the torch doesnt work properly is when it's really cold coz map gas has butane in it which goes to liquid at 1 oC. That said, good luck to you, seriously.

[Timmo]

also when using a mapp torch point the flame along the pipe, not across it. It will be glowing in about 10 seconds for 3/4" pipe. Its a bit of a trick most people overlook when using for the first time.

my cheap $80 torch will do 1" no worries if you know what you're doing, not as good as an oxy but more than adequate for silver soldering.

[sdrob]

thought i would put my 2 cents in.. i use a mapp torch at work all the time, have welded 2inch pipes before just takes time... also dont invert the bottle, the gas contains a wax which blocks up the small oriface.. way better than carring a oxy set up on a roof..
cheers sean

[davo_scuba]

great hear that it :2tsup:
I found that the 80 dollar torch to be too expensive for me, so you can forget the 350 jobbie, the torch I was given was from a old propane bottle so don't know if this was making a difference ??

I managed the straight connections but it all seem to be taking to long and came stuck when try to solder 20mm brass fitting to a large toe nipple.

Anyway still have half a bottle of mapp gas so i can have another go if i get a new torch or spring leaks.

2 inch copper pipe 15% silver solder on a little mapp gas bottle that's pretty impressive can anyone beat that maybe 3 inches :o ?????

I salute all you master plumbers out there, if you've got it,you've got it. :U

By the way I will be installing a shower/bath diverter which comes with nipples how can I plumb this in without using compression fittings I will be putting a access panel in the other side of the wall for checking things later on as it backs onto a wardrobe.

Regards davo

[bricks]

Davo, some mixers are a pain, what i do when im using copper..

Use a female brazing bush, bend up your copper to the correct angle and length, weld the bush onto it. Use this stuff called LOXEAL they sell it reece plumbing stores. Its basically a glue for brass fitting and sounds dodgy but seriously, I is so sticky that its almost like youve welded the thread.
Youll bust a gut trying to get it undone and its approved for prtty much all plumbing fittings even plastic, Apply it generously to the male thread and screw in then wipe off the excess, Just like a pva joint.
I try to keep the copper tails from the mixer as long as possible to stop heat getting to the mixer ( wet rags help), when i weld it to the main lines. 600 mm minimum.

Ps when i first started using mapp gas i didnt really like it as much as i do now, I use the yellow bottles , MappGas methylacetylene, propadine stabilised, just make sure youve got the right gas, I still have a half full bottle of Benzomatic propane i bought coz i was in a hurry and that is useless.

I also hold the torch about an inch from the pipe, it feels like its too far away but it works for me, I does take longer to heat up than oxy aswell.

[pawnhead]

Use a female brazing bush, bend up your copper to the correct angle and length, weld the bush onto it. Use this stuff called LOXEAL they sell it reece plumbing stores. Its basically a glue for brass fitting and sounds dodgy but seriously, I is so sticky that its almost like youve welded the thread.
Youll bust a gut trying to get it undone and its approved for prtty much all plumbing fittings even plastic, Apply it generously to the male thread and screw in then wipe off the excess, Just like a pva joint. That sounds interesting. I've never heard of that.

I try to keep the copper tails from the mixer as long as possible to stop heat getting to the mixer ( wet rags help), when i weld it to the main lines. 600 mm minimum.Do you have to put back-up taps on mixers?

[bricks]

if you mean Back flow prevention devices, im pretty sure that the maufacturers put it in the device if its mounted in the wall. only mixer taps, eg kitchen sink need them under counter.

Ill check tommorow at work, if you need back flow its often cheaper to install 1 device at the meter than 15 on every tap.

Back -up tap? really not sure what you mean sorry mate.??

[pawnhead]

I seem to remember some plumber telling me that he had to install ,a couple of taps under a sink because the mixer wasn't approved? Could be some dream I had somewhere. :?

[bricks]

When you install a mixer in a sink your supposed to put a mini stop cock under the sink before you connect it, if the water should want to flow backwards in the pipe it will actually push the washer back down onto the seat and close it off, simple yet effective backflow prevention with standard fittings. because the mixer is in the wall this is not possible as you cant put a tap into an inaccesable location. The mixer i have in my van is a HANSA POLO flick type for shower and bath, it has non return valves built into the connecting nipples.

LOXEAL is good stuff but i dont use it on tap connections or anything i want to get undone in the future, eg hot water service.... It is a huge pain to undo, also it takes 45 minutes to dry, and has a workable consistency for about 1-2 minutes, screw everything together in this time or let it dry before putting next peice of hardware in, if you move it before its dry it leaks and is still apain to undo.