Free adverting Bludgers

[QbnDusty]

Hi Administrators and Members.
This is the second attempt at posting, I think the evil ones are watching.
I scan these forums every day because they are so full of useful information.
What pisses me off are the replies to some forum questions and whose senders address includes a URL to some company selling something.
This invaluable forum is provided free by Ebeut and I think that respondant web sites trying to advertise themselves should be charged or deleted.
Sorry about this, but have seen it on several forums I subscribe to.
Regards.
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

[Wood Butcher]

Geoff,
Could you please PM me some examples of posts that you are talking about and we (Super Moderators and Admins) will discuss it.

[JDarvall]

Go have a beer mate. She'll be right. People are always trying to make a quid some how. Whats new eh.

[Ashore]

This invaluable forum is provided free by Ebeut [/quote]
Ebeut :confused:

Yes there are some people who have their website in their signature , if you don't want to look don't, the other thing is that some of those with their websites included are the same people who donate to the free prise drawer. I have been at this forum a while now and have always seen blatent advertising quickly deleted, any that remains is with the consent of Neil and the admin 's and that is their perogative.;)

[Howdya do that]

I find the links in peoples posts very helpful. Being in the bush I have been able to find many things that I can order on the net that I cant purchase locally. Small brass hinges, T-Track, and reproduction antique hardware are just a few.

If you dont want to look dont click!

[silentC]

I know of two guys here, and I wont mention their names, who run businesses related to the forum topics they post on. Both of them are always very forthcoming with help and I've never seen either of them suggest that someone engage their services. I don't see anything wrong with them including their websites in their signature lines because they give their professional opinions free of charge and I think that's worth something to us.

[echnidna]

Hi Administrators and Members.
This is the second attempt at posting, I think the evil ones are watching.
I scan these forums every day because they are so full of useful information.
What pisses me off are the replies to some forum questions and whose senders address includes a URL to some company selling something.
This invaluable forum is provided free by Ebeut and I think that respondant web sites trying to advertise themselves should be charged or deleted.
Sorry about this, but have seen it on several forums I subscribe to.
Regards.
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

I am offended by your "holier than thou" attitude. :mad:

There are 2 things that makes these forums great.
Neil for providing the opportunity and the users for providing the input.

Obviously you dislike the idea of anyone making a profit.
Well if no one made a profit the world might be just like north korea.
If you don't want to look at other websites don't click the links.

Neil set these forums up so a web address could included in a signature line. And some people use this facility just as Neil intended.
Those that break Neil's rules either change their ways or go.

Personally I like the links as I like looking at other members websites.
Its interesting to see what they do and just how well some of them are progressing.

[Howdya do that]

Firey Echidna, Go you good thing!

[Wood Butcher]

What pisses me off are the replies to some forum questions and whose senders address includes a URL to some company selling something.

Geoff, the other Moderators and myself discussed this last night

SilentC summed it up brilliantly:-

I know of two guys here, and I wont mention their names, who run businesses related to the forum topics they post on. Both of them are always very forthcoming with help and I've never seen either of them suggest that someone engage their services. I don't see anything wrong with them including their websites in their signature lines because they give their professional opinions free of charge and I think that's worth something to us.
If anyone sees a link to a url that they find offensive they can use the report button (this one http://woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/buttons/report.gif (http://woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/report.php?p=421528))to notify the moderators and administrators, but there will be no blanket ban on url's in members signatures

[echnidna]

I thought I'd explain what my web pages are.

My ebooks webpage

My most popular ebook is
Hydrogen Energy - Run Your Car Engine or Motor On Water
in the blurb I clearly state:
"I cannot guarantee it, but I believe these plans may enable you to build a car that runs on water.

If you test it out, though, do as the writer suggests and use an old car that doesn't
represent a loss of value if you can't make it work. And leave everything intact so
that you can always reconnect back to gas if you have to.

If you treat this as an experimenters ebook you should get a lot of fun out of it.

If you can make it work properly think of the advantages,

Drive around Australia for nix."

I'm not involved on any car forums even though that might help sell books.

The Furniture webpage shows stuff I built as chrissy pressies for my Grandkids and Great Grandkids.

So I put a price on it - if I sell something great
- that helps pay for what is now my hobby instead of my income.

I've built so much fine furniture I find its become ho-hum,
But I got a great thrill out of making the kids stuff as desiogn parameters and even some construction methods etc are different to fine furniture.

If it makes a few dollars great.
If it becomes a tedious chore then I'll abandon it.

This webpage is unlikely to sell much if anything to members of a woodies forum though it should give members some ideas of things they could make.

So my webpages might sell things but they are not blatantly ripping off Ubeaut or any of the forum members

[Wood Butcher]

I thought I'd explain what my web pages are.

Bob thanks for the post, but don't feel like you need to justify your signature!

[Felder]

What pisses me off are the replies to some forum questions and whose senders address includes a URL to some company selling something.
.......I think that respondant web sites trying to advertise themselves should be charged or deleted.

I'm tipping that I am probably one of the "Free Adverting (sic) Bludgers" to which you refer.

When I joined the Forum, I sent Neil an e-mail stating who I was and my obvious financial interests in the woodworking industry. He shot one straight back to me, welcoming me to the Forum, and just suggested that I keep any direct advertisements to the Buy, Sell & Swap forum, and otherwise just join in and have a good time. He's probably regretting that last part now.....:rolleyes:

He also suggested that if my posts caused offence to Forumites in general (ie if anyone felt they were being spammed), then no doubt they would let me know very quickly.

Since I joined 14 months ago, I have advertised a few items in the Buy, Sell & Swap section (Jap saws, Hammer Bandsaws, second hand machines, etc), I have offered advice to others (where I have felt qualified :o ), but generally have had a good time chatting to woodies and learning a lot from reading pages of advice on stuff I previously knew nothing about.

I also feel I have given a little bit back to the Forum by donating two prizes to the "Free Stuff Prize Draws".

If Neil would prefer that I didn't have a link to my company's website in my signature then it would be gone in a heartbeat.

If Neil would prefer that companies refrained from any form of advertising on his Bulletin Board, then I would cease it immediately.

If it ever turns out that Neil would prefer users such as myself off the Forum, then I would thank him for letting me be a part of it for so long, and slip away gracefully.

The last thing I want to do is sully the good name of Felder by annoying potential customers on an internet forum.

So far, I still feel welcome here, so I'm going to stick around a while longer. ;)

[Shedhand]

with that flag flying he's obviously watching the cricket and not a happy camper. What all the others said. I chose not to click on the urls (Felder excepted). We still have freedom of association, free speech and democracy in Oz...I think!

[JDarvall]

could go a beer right now. Nothing happened when I clicked on them tigers.

[Shedhand]

could go a beer right now. Nothing happened when I clicked on them tigers.Try now... :D such a pity they sold out to Fos**rs.

[RETIRED]

Keep it on topic please.

[joe greiner]

In the short time I've been on the forum, most of the links I've seen have been added to enhance the information requested. Isn't information enhancement the whole point of this exercise? And if a question is of the variety, "Where can I find a .... ?", how else can you do it, especially since the weird wild web may be the only source of "a ...."?

Joe

[Flowboy]

Hi Geoff,

Me being me, I tend to get involved in some of these issues. I have absolutely no qualms with people linking to other pages when they are upfront and transparent. If there's no reason for you to investigate the links then why bother. I do dislike situations where people try to come in "undernreath the radar" to try and gain an edge. As I've said before, many cowboys stumble on this site and think they've hit the motherload, all they have to do is fleece us. I think if George Bubbya had half the IQ of the people in these forums then we might have a reasonable US presence. Anyway, I find that either replying to the offending poster with facts, or reporting the offending post result result in an equitable result for everyone. The Mods and Admins here do a superlative job. Best you rethink how you approach the links that offend you, either jump to them or dont, your call.

Regards,

Rambling Rob

[Groggy]

I want to comment as a member (not as a moderator).

Firstly, it is hard to create hard-and-fast rules for advertising because, as soon as you do, someone will find a way to creep right up to the edge.

There is a quaint legal phrase of mens rea, or "guilty mind" which is what seems to unconsciously guide most members. By this I suggest that most people will get a 'feeling' that a post or advertisement is pushing the limit but may not complain. The second time they will probably say something. By the third time the moderators are being hailed with messages. This happens because the members decide at some point that the offender must know what he is up to (has a guilty mind) and they get fed up.

When this happens will also depend on 'who' is creating the ads. Some guys put in a lot of support and provide a heap of information for members about their company's products. UBeaut, Lee Valley, Felder, Carba-Tec,
Henry Bros, Kitchen and Plasterboard guys and a bunch of others. Members are less likely to react immediately if one these people were to advertise, than they would if a new member put up an ad on the first post.

In this way. it is not unlike real life; we know who puts-in, who the freeloaders are (were :rolleyes: ) and those who hardly ever advertise but provide a lot of really valuable input to the board when they are able (Rob Lee is a good example, but there are many others). Because of that a bit of lattitude seems necessary, they more than earn their keep (so to speak).

It also really depends how the advertising is worded, if it is in your face, via a link or some other manner.

Sheddy, if I may use you as an example - I never really had an issue with your Cascade banner, other than its size makes your posts bigger. However, now that you have a link in it that jumps to Cascade, it has changed somehow and, to me (again, personally, and not as a moderator), it does not seem appropriate.

It is a subtle difference, and hard to explain, but there you go, that is where the balance shifted for me.

Now, speaking as a moderator, trying to determine where to say enough-is-enough is not easy. I usually go by the complaints unless it is easy to identify like the viagra, cell phones, sex ads etc. So, is a simple answer available? No, not really. Here you just need to trust the administrators and the moderators and remember that we are here to make the forum a good place to be for you, and a safe one for Neil, the owner, so he doesn't lose his shirt. Also remember the forum rules still provide fairly clear guidance.

[Coldamus]

As another who resents the intrusion of commercialism and bias caused by self-interest, I can relate to the original poster's point of view.

However I don't find it much of a problem here, certainly not as much as in the programming newsgroups that I also frequent.

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned that there is an easy cure for most of it here - just go into User CP and edit your options. You can turn off the display of signatures and avatars when browsing. I did that ages ago and find the forums faster and more pleasant to browse through with the clutter removed.

regards
Coldamus

[MajorPanic]

GeoffP,

If ya haven't noticed, there is a pretty vocal group of members who wouldn't hesitate to voice their disapproval at someone who is trying to make a free buck out of these forums (myself included)

There is a couple of reasons for this, 1.) we try to keep the forums informative & entertaining. This includes people or services that would interest other members without being an outright money grab!

2.) These forums are hosted by a very generous business person & I feel we should do what we can to 'protect' him & his business.

I'm sure there is a myriad of other reasons that I can't think of just now...... I'm sure I will later

[celeste]

Hi all

I am new to all these forums, I quite like the URL's - reasons

1. If I am asking a kitchen related Q's for example it is good to see they work in the trade, gives me more confidence in the answers.

2. If I have more specific Q's I know who I can ask directly, as some times I would like a quick answer.

Celeste:D

[QbnDusty]

Hi All
Well my post certainly generated some response. Perhaps I should have been a bit more specific, Namely
1. A lot of Forum members are in "The Trade" of one sort or another and are particularly valuable in answering questions from dumbo people like me who have a problem. Many have their own web sites which they include in their forum replies to posts. Absolutely no problem with that.
2. Agree the administrators and moderators do a good and valuable job and a lot of stuff gets sorted and ditched before we see it and as a result this is an excellent forum for all.

That said, I think it was Flowboy who said some may get under the Radar and it was one of those that triggered me off. Problem is I cannot remember now what is was.
There are several Forums I subscribe to and they are immeasurably worse for this problem.
Hope this puts all the ruffled feathers back in place.
Regards Geoff.:):):)