Flexi Plumbing Solution

[floppinab]

Learned folks,

I have a hot and cold outdoor run I need to do, taking a tap off existing external copper down the side of my house and running to an outdoor kitchen setup. The run itself is only about 4 - 6 odd metres but it will have a number of twists and turns and I was wondering if there is a simple flexi/plastic solution around that someone could recommend rather than having to use copper (apart from having to weld in the inital T piece from the existing pipe) and that has local supply in Sydney and is happy to deal with DIYers.

I've done a bit of searching around and haven't really come up with anything conclusive.

Thanks in advance.

[Purse]

Learned folks,

I have a hot and cold outdoor run I need to do, taking a tap off existing external copper down the side of my house and running to an outdoor kitchen setup. The run itself is only about 4 - 6 odd metres but it will have a number of twists and turns and I was wondering if there is a simple flexi/plastic solution around that someone could recommend rather than having to use copper (apart from having to weld in the inital T piece from the existing pipe) and that has local supply in Sydney and is happy to deal with DIYers.

I've done a bit of searching around and haven't really come up with anything conclusive.

Thanks in advance.

I probally wont be any help much, but my whole house was setup with a flexible PVC type pipe when it was built about 4 years ago.. But that about all i know, that there is something about.

Apparently houses are done with it these days for reduced cost, and also helps with that annoying pipe hammer.

Cheers
Joel

[silentC]

There's three or four different brands on the market. A plumbing supplier should be able to help. For what it's worth, I wouldn't touch the stuff with a barge pole but that's just me.

When you say 'outside', do you intend to bury it?

[b1ueshift]

Bunnings have got a couple of products that you can use. Polyethelyne pipe goes together a lot easier than copper and is cheaper.

[Bleedin Thumb]

I'm with Silent, Go copper its easy and fun and permanent. Also you said hot water then you will want to use insulated copper for that.
Plastic pipes are ok for a while but long term you will start to get leaking joints.

[OBBob]

Sharkbite is a popoular push connect plastic system ... available through tradelink in Vic. Never used it, don't knwo what its like long term.

You don't need to use ridgid copper, you can get a roll of the flexible stuff that will bend where ever you like. And if you don't like playing with gas torches (the fun bit) then you can get compression fittings.

[pharmaboy2]

I agree, a rolll of annealed 15m is about $75 for 3/4, and you can get push on fittings by Kembla - kwikfit I think is the name - they are very good and easy and allow connect and reconnect - we have them on a very high pressure system, and they are better than compression fitiings whcih are only approved for accessible joins.

used polyehthelene in previous house, but the fittings required an expensive tool to fit, so that version is not a one off job kinda thing (dont know if there are better easier ones these days.

[b1ueshift]

I replaced the galvanised plumbing under my house with polyethelyne. No tools required to join poly, you can tighten the joints by hand. you can get threaded adaptors to join to brass fittings. Some care is required not to overtighten the brass/ploy adaptors as the plastic threads aren't as strong as brass. That old gal pipe was rusting and making my tap water dirty, the new poly pipe fixed that and also got rid of the water hammer.

[OBBob]

Is that correct about the compression fittings? I've found them covered up in plenty of old renos!!

[doug1]

As posted I believe you would be better off doing this in soft copper with whatever fittings you like best, soldered or compression

Doug

[Sturdee]

There's three or four different brands on the market. A plumbing supplier should be able to help. For what it's worth, I wouldn't touch the stuff with a barge pole but that's just me.

When you say 'outside', do you intend to bury it?


FWIW I saw Yarra Valley Water replacing old water mains with poly pipe, and it was the same brand of poly that I used to replace the gal piping.


Peter.

[Guy]

They have been using the PVC flex pipes and crimp fitting for over 20 years in Europe and the USA. its only a relatively new product here, but the plumbers i have spoken to that use it love it as they can still charge the same amount for the job but can do it in a shorter time.

[silentC]

FWIW I saw Yarra Valley Water replacing old water mains with poly pipe, and it was the same brand of poly that I used to replace the gal piping.
Yes, they did the same here. About an inch thick and light blue.


Plumbers i have spoken to that use it love it as they can still charge the same amount for the job but can do it in a shorter time

Funny that.

Don't like it, wouldn't use it in my house. I'm sure it's fine. They'd never approve something for use in Australia that had problems, would they? ;)

Regarding the fittings, there are two types, one that uses a tool, one that doesn't. Plumbers who use it all the time have the fitting tools and the fittings are cheaper than the type that don't need a tool.

Don't know what the regulations are regarding using compression fittings in walls. I wouldn't like to do it, but then the only thing I trust inside a wall is a nice soldered copper fitting.

[Bleedin Thumb]

Last time I used Poly I built a sandstone water feature. One of the internal joints started to leak and I had to come back and demolish and rebuild the whole feature. I was using one of the push on type fitting.:mad:

I have also used both compression and soldered copper fittings never had a problem with the compression. Have had problems getting a good seal with solder if the fitting is in a hard to get to position. You know straight away that you have a leak so you just do the joint again.

Just love the hiss of that gas gun though!:)

[silentC]

The compression fittings can leak if there is any distortion in the pipe around where the olive sits. Sometime you get a copper olive and they are more likely to leak in my experience than the nylon ones.

We used copper all through our place. The plumber (my Dad) wanted to use a compression fitting in one place because it was difficult to get to with the oxy. I said no way and made him solder it. Then he borrowed a pressure tester and hooked it up. There were a couple of leaks which he fixed up but at least we know it's all intact behind the plaster.

No water hammer in our place either.

[Purse]

As i understand, water hammer is mainly due to plumbers being cheap and not securing the pipes well enough. :confused:

[b1ueshift]

As i understand, water hammer is mainly due to plumbers being cheap and not securing the pipes well enough. :confused:

Not really, pipes shaking is the symptom, not the cause. Water hammer occurs when water is travelling at high speed & suddenly stops (cause somebody turned a tap off) - then you get a pressure surge which can shake the pipes. Poly is a bit flexible and absorbes the surge by expanding a bit - also large diameter pipe tends to have lower water velocity.

[floppinab]

Firstly, thanks for all the replies.
When I originally posted the questions I had a feeling in the back of my mind there were going to be some divergent views and that is exactly what there is.

I neglected to mention in my original post that I haven't done any copper welding for quite a long time although I do a lot soldering through electronics hobbyist stuff. That said I've done flared comresssion fittings on a A/C install recently so that should pose no problems. Some good references here for those push fittings and so on so thanks again.

I'll let you know how I go.