showers washed the colour away

[Dribbler]

Hi,

I Had my drive and paths laid yesterday (friday) with the charcoal colour (the powder thats thrown on top) and to get to the point it had started raining while they were still doing the job. The concretor told me not to worry as he would be back to seal it and he would add colour to the seal to cover the patches the rain may couse. Waking up this morning to check the job Its worse than what I thought yesterday. The second batch of concrete which is the part that was finished in the rain as basically a dark grey while the first batch is the charcoal (black). What makes me more annoyed is I called the concretor the day before (thursday) informing him the weather was bad and he should do it another day. He assured me it would be ok. To my question.... will the colour in the clear fix this problem? and will it last? right now I feel even if the colour in the clear fixes the problem I have not gotten what I payed for. I cant see the clear with colour being as good as if it was done properly and I feel as though its a bodge job or quick fix but Im no expert so I cant say. Thats why I would appreciate some expert opinions.

Cheers.

[Bleedin Thumb]

I wouldnt panic just yet (unless you have already paid up front). Wait untill he has finished the job. If its not good enough meet with ask him to make it right or he doesnt get paid.
I wouldnt think that it is a big issue for the contractor to resurface the work.
Legally you are in the right because you suggested to hold off until better weather but he chose (took the risk) to proceed. IE it was at his risk not yours.
I really hope you havent paid upfront.

[bitingmidge]

will the colour in the clear fix this problem? and will it last?
No on both counts.

When you put colour in the clear, it's called "paint", will have a limited life, and will almost certainly wear.

Sorry.

P

[Dribbler]

I have paid the full amount and although im sure he will come good and clear it (with colour) im still not happy about it as you can imagine..... like bitingmidge (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=2450) said its paint. I want to call him and let him know im not happy but then I dont want to run the risk of him leaving me in the lurch as he has the full amount. Guess ill just have to live with it.

Cheers.

[Dribbler]

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone knows how I go about getting an expert opinion and written out report on the state of my driveway regarding the colour fade, dusting, water run marks, and craters that were caused from the rain, I have asked the concretor for a less than half refund to go towards re-coating the drive (like drive seal) and he got very defensive. He keeps pushing in my face that colour in the seal will fix the problem but I know this is not the answer. Im planning on taking it further and need a expert report to help prove my case. If anyone has contact details of a business that does this it would be appreciated. Im in Melb.

Cheers.

[Bleedin Thumb]

Sorry Dribbler sounds like you have landed in it. I dont have a contact for Melbourne but give this guy a ring, he knows his stuff re:concrete finishes and he may be able to steer you to someone else.
Dallas Mexon 0409325527. tell him Tony from Pleasantview refered you to him.
Cathay Pigments may also have some advise. 02 97692088.
Good luck.

[Jacksin]

Yeh Dribbler, unfortunately I think legalities will come into play here if you are denying the concretor any attempt of fixing whats happened, and its doubly unfortunate you paid in full up-front.

From what I know about concrete that has an oxide coloured finish is that unless its sealed it will fade eventually. I have seen 'coloured' sealers used (rolled on) and its something that has to be repeated every few years whether the sealer has 'colour' added or not.

Like they guys say ask the experts.

[Dribbler]

Hi all,

Thanks Bleedin Thumb (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=12371) for the numbers, as yet I have not contacted Dallas but i'll keep you posted when I do. Jacksin (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=2675) i'm not actually denying him to fix it..... I would love nothing more than for him to fix it but it needs to be fixed right not just a cover up. The sealer should be protecting the colour and not actually be the colour. If the job was done right I would only have to re-seal the drive every 1 to 3 years without the need of adding colour, In this case I will have no option but to add colour and because it is basically paint I will have to do this more often as the original faded colour will show through. besides the colour problem there is a number of other problems as mensioned above that colour in the sealer just cant hide. Thanks guys for your input it is very much appreciated.

Cheers.

[johnc]

Dribbler,

I would consider putting on a top coat (render), perhaps not your ideal outcome but it will give you a pit free surface and even colour. It will still need to have a clear finish but should hold the colour as well as an in slab mix. A few may disagree but it really depends on the colour itself and how much direct sun as to rate of fade rather then if colour is in a topping coat or in the slab itself.

Whatever happens you are unlikely to be completely satisfied with the result from here on in.

John.

[jaspr]

Take some good pictures - before and after the top coat. Put your concerns in writing to the contractor.

Then if there is any way to follow through consumer affairs or the master builders, he will have some proof.

[Dribbler]

Dribbler,

I would consider putting on a top coat (render), perhaps not your ideal outcome but it will give you a pit free surface and even colour. It will still need to have a clear finish but should hold the colour as well as an in slab mix. A few may disagree but it really depends on the colour itself and how much direct sun as to rate of fade rather then if colour is in a topping coat or in the slab itself.

Whatever happens you are unlikely to be completely satisfied with the result from here on in.

John.

Hi,

I have contacted several spray-on paving companies (like drive seal) for quotes for just a plain charcoal colour with no pattern (basically to get it to what it should have been) and the price to do this is around $3000+. I have asked the concreter for a $2000 refund and told him I am willing to add the rest myself but at that stage he got quite defensive and is apparently coming over on the weekend to talk about it..... or should i say try and bully me into excepting his way. of course no matter what he says I want it fixed right.

jaspr (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/member.php?u=6899) I have taken photos and been in contact with consumer affairs and I have already written out my letter of demand ready to be posted incase the weekend talk does not resolve this issue. If after the letter of demand is sent and he does not come good then I will be contacting VCAT.

Cheers.

[Dribbler]

I posted some pics.

[Dribbler]

Some more pics.

[Bleedin Thumb]

Dribbler those cracks are not normal! The only cracks you should have is along your contol joints, that is what they are for. It is quiet simple now -the concretor has to lift and redo the parts of the job that has cracks in it. And while he's at it replace the rain damaged work as well.

No one should accept a job like that. I even thought it was against the law to get people to pay upfront in the building industry. This concretor either was having a real unlucky day or he is a cowboy.

If he is not a cowboy he will offer to redo the job at no expense to you.

Its not that big a task and every concretor at one point or another has to jack hammer up their work and redo it infact its very common on commercial projects.

Its not rocket science there is an acceptable finish or there is shyte. If its the latter...redo it.
Hope he does the right thing by you.

[Dribbler]

Dribbler those cracks are not normal!

Thanks for the info.......I was afraid that it was not normal, I was kinda hoping it was normal so my problems wouldnt get deeper. I guess when your down your really down.


Cheers.

[dazzler]

Hi Dribbler,

Tell me to get stuffed if you like :p ,

but

You really should have given the bloke time to rectify the problem before asking for compensation. From your thread it all seems pretty aggressive. I understand the annoyance but a deep breath may be a better option, just ask for him to complete the job satisfactorily. But give him, and the slab, a little time. I aint no concreter and it would seem from those in the know that he has screwed it up somewhat.

If he cant fix it then you can move to the small claims court or equivelant in VIC.

Courts REALLY like patient, relaxed and considerate claimants.:D
Courts DETEST angry, impatient and inconsiderate claimants.:(

You really need to be the smiley face. ;) :) Specially when he's got your money :o

cheers

dazzler

[Dribbler]

Dazzler,

I'm trying to work out where the aggressive part is. One does not have to be a brain surgeon to work out what he wants to do is simply not what I have paid for. Is it to much for a customer to ask for what he/she has paid for? Believe me I have not shown the slightest bit of anger or aggression towards the concreter. Don’t mix up annoyed and disappointed with aggressive.....preparing to take matters further if need be is smart not aggressive. Might I add that letting him put colour in the sealer would only land me in a bigger mess if later the drive should have to be re-surfaced as the sealer would have to be cleaned off, so its very important that its fixed the correct way and not a quick fix from the beginning....We all know that quick fixes can lead to bigger problems later. Oh and about telling you to get stuffed.....well only an aggressive person would do that.
<o></o>

Cheers.<o></o>

[johnc]

Dribbler,

It is very unusual to see a crack appear so quickly as a result of poor design, it is possible that it may be caused by the sand in the mix or the batch being unsuitable for the job. It is just possible you may have a double problem one being the finish and the other the batching plant.

However that is just a maybe, around here some of the professionals throw hessian on the job to stop the pitting and damage if it looks like rain. In any case if you concretor continues to be a problem perhaps you could pay one of his opposition to give you his opinion on what should be done to fix it. As for the crack if it more than just surface, and my bet is that it goes right through. Then it is cut, remove replace.

John

[Tools]

I post my vote for pull it up and replace it.The colour,finish and cracks are just poor workmanship.

Tools

[Dribbler]

perhaps you could pay one of his opposition to give you his opinion on what should be done to fix it.

Hi John,

Thanks for your reply. I actually have a gent coming out to have a look today to quote me on a correct repair job. He will also tell me if the concrete needs cutting etc.

[Dribbler]

I post my vote for pull it up and replace it.The colour,finish and cracks are just poor workmanship.

Tools

I agree.

Cheers.

[dazzler]

Dazzler,

I'm trying to work out where the aggressive part is. One does not have to be a brain surgeon to work out what he wants to do is simply not what I have paid for. Is it to much for a customer to ask for what he/she has paid for? Believe me I have not shown the slightest bit of anger or aggression towards the concreter. Don’t mix up annoyed and disappointed with aggressive.....preparing to take matters further if need be is smart not aggressive. Might I add that letting him put colour in the sealer would only land me in a bigger mess if later the drive should have to be re-surfaced as the sealer would have to be cleaned off, so its very important that its fixed the correct way and not a quick fix from the beginning....We all know that quick fixes can lead to bigger problems later. Oh and about telling you to get stuffed.....well only an aggressive person would do that.
<O></O>

Cheers.<O></O>

Hey Dribbler

Wrong choice of word aggressive.(meant as quick to act without allowing enough time to respond)....sorry....what I was trying to say was have a relaxed and patient approach, give him time to respond remembering that he would probably have other jobs/concerns to consider. This is something that I have learned in my current job.....20 things on the go and its often the more troublesome ones that get pushed a bit down the list, but done they will be.

By asking for the refund is being aggressive, theres that word again, as it puts you both in a bind. One of you is gonna get angry. You cause you dont get it, him if he gives it.

It would be much easier for me to say;

Yeah go get him. he stuffed it, tell im to fix it or else....yeah, just fix it, rip it up ya ****.

But in the end there are a number of ways of skinning the cat, mine is an alternative.

cheers

dazzler:)

PS. Best of luck with achieving a good outcome!

[Dribbler]

Hey Dribbler

Wrong choice of word aggressive.(meant as quick to act without allowing enough time to respond)....sorry....what I was trying to say was have a relaxed and patient approach, give him time to respond remembering that he would probably have other jobs/concerns to consider. This is something that I have learned in my current job.....20 things on the go and its often the more troublesome ones that get pushed a bit down the list, but done they will be.

By asking for the refund is being aggressive, theres that word again, as it puts you both in a bind. One of you is gonna get angry. You cause you dont get it, him if he gives it.

It would be much easier for me to say;

Yeah go get him. he stuffed it, tell im to fix it or else....yeah, just fix it, rip it up ya ****.

But in the end there are a number of ways of skinning the cat, mine is an alternative.

cheers

dazzler:)

PS. Best of luck with achieving a good outcome!


Hi Dazzler,

Don’t be so hasty is what you mean. I know exactly what you are saying and I was hasty in asking for some money. It might have been a bad thing for me if he agreed because those cracks concern me not to mention I have also noticed from the edge that the rio (steel) is on the ground.... yep looks like he didn’t lift it.<O:p

I have a building inspector coming out today to write me up a report on the structural state of the concrete and if any or all needs to be removed or not. I will then calmly discuss what the inspector’s opinion is with the concreter and go from there. <O:p
<O:p
Thanks for your wishes.


Cheers.

PS. GO THE MIGHTY PIES.........and MELBOURNE VICTORY :)<O:p</O:p