Drought.

[Bluegum]

I was on line this morning reading the daily telegraph. Front page had photos of the mighty Darling river just about dried up. I never thought a river system as big as it is could run to a trickle the way it has. Its getting scary that we could run out of water. Bring on the summer rains lets hope they fall in the right places. We should be going to level 4 restrictions here in SEQLD fairly shortly.

[RufflyRustic]

we are already on level 5. don't want to go to the next level, but it will happen I reckon - just a humble opinion and I soooo hope I'm wrong:(

[Bluegum]

No I agree with you there Wendy. The annoying thing is seeing people still wasting water and not caring. Wivenhoe dam fell to under 25% a couple of days ago. Best rain wev'e had was 48mm last month and most of that came ion one huge down poor. Iv'e started measuring what little rain fall were getting just to see how much we end up with.

[ptc]

Whats Somerset Dam like ?
I used to live near it.

[Sturdee]

Personally I don't think there is a drought but we had a complete climate change as an effect of global warning. The lack of adequate rains are here to stay for a long long time.

Pity our politicians are not prepared to face up to this and insist that we learn to live with a diminished water supply. The lack of adequate measures to cope with this climate change will come to haunt us if we don't take steps to cope with it now.

Peter.

[Doughboy]

Peter

I totally agree with you I reckon this is the new norm and when we get GOOD rain that will be the exception. Tanks and water recycling HAS to be a priority for both federal and local government.

Pete

[Buzzer]

Hi,

I think that those in a position of authority hope the problem will go away(good rainfall), and the water issue will be forgotten about........ I don't think so!!!

[Bondy1s]

Drought
I live in Central West NSW on 800 ha (2000 acres) and run cattle on this 3-1/4 sq miles of sticks & rocks & dust. Our average rainfall is 26 inches and we have had 9" so far this year (about 30% of our average). The last four years have been about the same. So I am in business to supplement my farm loss but my customer base is 90% broke farmers. All of a sudden I have become a de-facto financier for my customers. How dumb is that?
BUT
I wouldnt trade places with anyone. My farm raised kids have grown up to be heads down committed & ambitious workers with common sense and true blue aussie values. I have an endless supply of native timber. Every day that goes by is a day closer to the rain that will get us back to normal seasons. I live far enough out of town to have my weekends to myself. Cant think of a better place to be right here and right now.

[woodsprite]

Geez the politicians are morons! They have been publicly denying the huge amount of evidence about climate change and global warming. They have pretended that the lasy 10 years have not been rainfall deficiency years. They have always said - there will be good rains next year. They have not listened to their own advisors. And guess what - yesterday they decided that things were serious, all of a sudden like. Almost like, gee why didn;t someone tell us this before. And not just federal polies - around bendigo they at least started getting alarmed a few months ago.

We are all going to be up the proverbial creek, but with no need for a paddle. I guess if we all take the drought seriously, and each one of us does our bit in conserving water, we will get through it. I hate to think what happens if we do NOT get proper rainfall in the next 12 months though - it really doesn't warrant thinking about.

I feel for those folk who are totally dependent on tank and dam water - at least here we have reticulated water at the moment, and can live with level 4 restrictions.

[outback]

I'm not anywhere near conviced the climate has changed forever. Let's face it, we only have reliable records for the last 200 years or so. I don't think we cans say definitively there has been a change forever and ever. I think we need thousands of years worth of reocrds before that. I know all about research, ice cores, and yadda yadda yadda, I just think most of that stuff is open to really small errors and interpretation.

After all of that though, I can't for the life of me follow some peoples reactions to water solutions, particularly the pollys. They take what water there is, treat it until you can drink it, then pour most of it into industry, on gardens, or flush it. To contemplate recycling water brings outcries. The solution is to ship it in from Tasmania, or desalinate. The whole thing beggars belief.

At some stage we need to realise that climate change, or climate going through its normal cycle or whatever, we need to manage our water better. ANd while I'm on the soap box, pouring water on water hungry crops like rice and cotton on the driest continent is bloody bizare.

[johnc]

It is several years late for the drongo's in Canberra to finally realise we are running short on water, and you can bet your boots they have been dragged into looking at the issue beyond just talking about privatisation and commercial forces providing better outcomes. The last bit is rubbish as all commercial forces do is give to those with the biggest wallets.

For once it would be timely for someone to behave like a statesman get the states and feds together along with those in industry and come up with some alternatives to what we are doing now. In irrigation I understand there is more lost in delivering water through soakage, spillage and evaporation than ever makes it to the farms. In the towns we flush perfectly good rainwater down the gutters when it could go on gardens or through toilets, not to mention grey water that can be used likewise.

It seems we don't have to look to far to make savings. The water wallies arguing for more dams need to remember that enviromental flows are needed and healthy rivers and streams do have an economic benefit in maintaining fish stocks, and in the quality of water pumped from rivers for crops, grazing and towns. Not to mention the ascetics of clean water rather then the sludge we used to call the Latrobe down stream of the Latrobe Valley for instance.

The worn out line that it would damage our industry to make enviromental improvements ignores the fact that new technologies often result in lower energy and input costs and less waste. In other words investment properly managed makes us more competitive, pity our tax system and attitudes reward the speculators and get rich quick suck holes rather than those whose activities lead to greater efficiency and more jobs.

John

[Pulse]

I heard on Channel 10 news last night...

"the worst drought is history.. coming up.. how it will effect your shopping bill"

That is why I hate channel 10.. sydney centric b*stards don't give a damn about people in the country.

Cheers
Pulse

[fred.n]

Just caught the end of a news clip last night.
Seems a trainer in the racing industry, (horse) is complaining the "track"
is to hard and needs more water!!!!:( :mad:
Now.........we can't have the Gee Gee's running on hard ground can we??:rolleyes:
Priorities people??:confused:

[Buzzer]

Just caught the end of a news clip last night.
Seems a trainer in the racing industry, (horse) is complaining the "track"
is to hard and needs more water!!!!:( :mad:
Now.........we can't have the Gee Gee's running on hard ground can we??:rolleyes:
Priorities people??:confused:

If the horses can't handle the firmer conditions, they shouldn't be racing.

[RETIRED]

I think that most metropolitan race courses use recycled water as do a lot of parks and gardens and industry (in Melbourne).

[aussiecolector]

I'm with Outback On this one.

The thing I think is stupid about water restictions in most towns ( not that I live in town ) is that they control how you use the water not how much. Even on level 5 in Toowoomba you can legaly use as much water as you want just don't use it outside.

[Tex79]

I'm not anywhere near conviced the climate has changed forever. Let's face it, we only have reliable records for the last 200 years or so. I don't think we cans say definitively there has been a change forever and ever.

I agree with outback also, 200 years out of the previous 250 million is only a minute portion, it might be part of a cycle. However I can't imagine that all of the polution is making it any better. Unfortunaely the government seems to get blinded by all of the money being waved in their faces by those large corporations who don't want to reduce green house emissions, as they will loose a small amount of money out of the billions they are raking in.
In the end it's up to "responsible" home owners to reduce their water consumption, however we don't live in a perfect world and this one seems to be full of ignorant morons who refuse to obey the simplest of rules which are still fairly laxed in Adelaide.

[HappyHammer]

.... Front page had photos of the mighty Darling river just about dried up. I never thought a river system as big as it is could run to a trickle the way it has......

Isn't the problem with the Murray system down to poor management and irrigation? Anyone seen two men in a tinnie on the ABC? They used to have paddle steamers on the river but now you can bottom out in a two man tinnie....

HH.

[PommiePete]

Yeah. Didn't they water the track prior to the last Melbourne Cup to improve it for the favourites? What a waste! And my horse was even wearing flippers!

[Auld Bassoon]

Drought
I live in Central West NSW on 800 ha (2000 acres) and run cattle on this 3-1/4 sq miles of sticks & rocks & dust. Our average rainfall is 26 inches and we have had 9" so far this year (about 30% of our average). The last four years have been about the same. So I am in business to supplement my farm loss but my customer base is 90% broke farmers. All of a sudden I have become a de-facto financier for my customers. How dumb is that?
BUT
I wouldnt trade places with anyone. My farm raised kids have grown up to be heads down committed & ambitious workers with common sense and true blue aussie values. I have an endless supply of native timber. Every day that goes by is a day closer to the rain that will get us back to normal seasons. I live far enough out of town to have my weekends to myself. Cant think of a better place to be right here and right now.

Good on yer mate http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gif I really hope that you and those like you can pull through.

Take care!

[Bluegum]

I was taking to a bloke who owns a tree farm here. He's a rock doctor by trade and has moved into the tree world for something different. He to feels that the current climate is the worlds weather pattern changing. He showed me a study that is being done by French scientists in Antartica. They're boring into the ice and bringing up Co2 and methane gases which have been frozen over millions of years. From statistics shown they feel the world has heated up, but is also getting ready to cool down. He claims that this has been going on for millions of years and that our trees are able to live with Co2 levels at around 6%. Currently they say the levels are sitting at around 2.5%. According to his statistics anywhere in the next 50-100 years the earths temp should drop by by around 5 degrees or so. I guess all we can do is wait and see if it does happen. ( don't think I will be here to see it though).

[sbranden]

I am with Peter on this one. I think climate change is happening and is a major component in the recent lack of rain. We will get rain, more and more it will come in the form of extreme weather like storms.

The South Australian government is starting to look hard at facts from the CSIRO about global warming and Rann has stated it is frightenning. Some time soon the Australian government will be forced to look at our future a little more than their politics, but they will fight it.

You know what wars over oil are like, just wait until we have wars over water.

shaun

[echnidna]

The thingthat's got me beat is that a year or so ago there was a huge furore when the NSW govt decided theway of the future for urban water supplies was desalination.

Logical thinking rorted by wackers.:eek:

[Bleedin Thumb]

I take it Echidna you beleive that the solution to urban water shortages is to build desalination plants.
Well I'll be damned I must be one of those wackers you mentioned.:eek:

Co's I recon that any "solution" that requires a constant high input of energy to work is a no goer. Not only are we in the midst of a water crises but we are rapidly approaching an energy crises which means:-
1 You spend many millions on a plant that you are then obligated to spend millions and million more on to keep going.
2 The energy that is produced to keep the sucker going is also adding to greenhouse gas emissions.
When all that you needed to do was instigate recycling policies that have been standard practice in Europe for the last 15 years:rolleyes:

I recon the Bob Carr had been done by some US sales rep just like the Mono rail, Tunnel builders etc etc:mad:
Its easier to throw money at one project than to initiate and implement a deep seated management system.
Wackers of the world unite!:p

[Auld Bassoon]

The thingthat's got me beat is that a year or so ago there was a huge furore when the NSW govt decided theway of the future for urban water supplies was desalination.

Logical thinking rorted by wackers.:eek:

Back in the early-mid 70's when I was still living in Jersey, the local Govt decided to build a desalination plant (the island is basically a large granite rock, so has no worthwhile groundwater, just a few dams to collect the run-off, and in summer it can get quite warm so evaporation is a big deal. Water was then (now?) shippen in, of all things!).

Anyway, the designers decided to make it oil-fired, and it was completed just before the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973-74...

It was "mothballed" shortly thereafter. Jersey is only a little island with a then population of about 65,000, so could ill afford a GBP 80,000,000 project that went nowhere...

Blasted pollies!

[Andy Mac]

I'm with Bleedin' Thumb on this one, desalination is a not the long term solution. Besides the energy input, I have read that the effluent in the form of super saline water is an issue for local seabed ecosystems. I don't think we can afford less natural fish breeding areas, overfishing and all.
The drought is real and its so wide spread as to be a hint of things to come. But no one really knows of the droughts that went on here before records were kept. I think Tim Flannery hints at some major prehistoric events in his book "The Future Eaters", like severe dry periods for hundreds of years. Maybe this is part of a major cyclic thing, and we're caught in the start of it?:confused:
What ever, we have to manage a dwindling water supply with increased population pressure. I mean, you should see the suburban sprawl that has bloomed in Toowoomba (and surrounds) in the last 10yrs. Awesome number of new housing developments, small farms cleared and cut up into tiny blocks and everyone flushing, and watering new gardens. Then surprise surprise there isn't enough water to go round. The council might have brought in svere restrictions, but have they curbed development, contained it in untill there's decent rain?!:( I don't think so...although interest rates rises have made an impact, well at least a slowdown in building applications. Concretors reporting about a 15% downturn in demand.
If we have to develop to take a moving population, infrastructure has to develop to ensure suitable water supply. The drought is bringing that home.

Cheers.

[Bondy1s]

Thanks, Auld for your mesage of support.
My attitude to this drought is a bit philosophical, I guess. We all have our own opinion on the cause and are quick to lay the blame on ourselves (humans being the geographical equivalent of a virus infecting the earth) and our use of fossil fuels, land clearing, blah blah blah. We just dont know. University graduates with fantastically well paid jobs can tell us what their tutors were flogging at the time but have any of them actually had an original thought? They base their suppositions on inadequate data and blame farmers, oil companies, commuters, governments, you name it, on the cause.

We do not have the right to unlimited water.

What about we just accept it and modify our lifestyle/habits etc to accommodate the lack of water in the same way most of us modify our lifestle /habits etc to accommodate lack of money (a problem most of us have to deal with daily). If you havent got it, dont spend it.

I use an egg-cup full of water to brush my teeth, a cup full of water to shave and 10 litres to wash my car about once a month. We re-use our bathwater to maintain a flower and vegie garden. This we have done not just during the dry spell but for the past thirty years. It is a simple fact of life to those on a tank supply. If we could educate the population and multiply a similar frugal use of this precious resource across the country there would be no water crisis.

Drought is a natural phenomenon probably beyond our control. Water wastage is within our power to control. The blame for our predicament belongs to the person who looks back at you from the mirror every morning.

[Bodgy]

It's raining in Sydney.

Alack,. Alay,. Oh fraptious day!!

[Bob38S]

No rain here....:(

What is it really about?

Drought?
Climate change?
Global warming?
Ozone?
Fossil fuel usage?
People?
Co2?
Dams?
Desalination?
Recycling?
Overuse?
Haves & have nots?
Etc?

Nuh

It's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

We are in a hell of a crisis at the moment - I think we will get through it [eventually] but not by the good management of politicians and government - what's the answer? - I'm not really sure but I do know that we need to be really careful because this is a MegaBucks problem - I can see some of the schemers and sharks circling already ready to rip us off with their easy fix schemes and poorly researched ideas pedalled as science.

[bsrlee]

In NSW, the pollies of both persuasions have been pumping money out of the Metropolitan Water Board for years - result is that the pipes are breaking down, leaking, whatever. These are also the same bunch of D***h**ds that have for years blocked rainwater tanks and recycling for homes as it was much more profitable for them to charge for water and to pour rainwater into the drains and charge for 'drainage' to remove it. Perhaps we need to dig up a few old pollies & display their mouldy parts for public scorn.

They talk of making people drink 'recycled sewerage' in order to prop up plans for expensive desalination plants, which strangely enough would work much better at recycling sewerage. (And there is an Australian company that makes compact, efficient water recycling machinery, just not huge desalination plants)

Why not pump the stuff to Goulburn and let it filter its way thru the catchment area, conveniently fertilizing some farmland on its way to Warragamba? I saw a brief bit on 'Landline' a few years ago about a 'Country' town (city?) that was doing pretty much that - spraying 'primary treated' water onto a large tree plantation/park area outside town, which was avoiding both algal blooms from nitrates & phosphates in the river they drew their drinking water from and also trapping heavy metals that accumulate in sewerage. Probably too smart, and not enough kickbacks to either side of parliament.

[Cliff Rogers]

Is this the thread to say how sick of rain we are????? :cool:

Anybody want to buy some water? :D

Sorry, it is seriously upside down at present... we are supposed to be in our dry season & would normally be watering the lawn in October BUT, did I mention the rain? :rolleyes:

The astronomers up here are checking into clinics with a pile of old back issuses of SKY & TELESCOPE. :p

PS. Did I mention the temp? Night time on the tablelands is around 13° at present.... (also not seasonal but good for sleeping.):)

[ernknot]

The cause of weather change is a real conundrum because no one really knows what is happening. Vetsed intrests will tell us that we are to blame but non of them will tell you who is funding them or their research. They say what they are paid to say. As for politicians, they can only think as far as the next election. They don't have the goolies to build more dams for fear the media will whip the greenies into a frenzy and cause them to lose votes.
I am on tank water. When I bought my house I bought two more tanks and now have suffcient water to get through any dry spells while others are buying water. I am not gloating but I think we all need to plan better. There is a lot of water around and when it is we should catch it and save it. I feel for the cocky who is caught in this drought and really hope they can survive. I don't have much feeling for irrigators who grow crappy oranges and other stuff which could be imported cheaper than growing it here. We don't have the water to do it. Recycled water is very good for growing vegetables and other fresh crops. I believe any one who wants to set up a business which uses a lot of water needs to be vetted to establish if we really need that product or not. Look at all the industries that use mega liters of water to make some thing we don't really need but the marketers tell us we can't live without. Governments won't step in on this because they are collecting an obscene amount of GST, so all we get is a lot of bulldust and posturing 'till the next election comes along. We as individuals are limited as to what we can do because we all need to confront our stupid local councils and other sub government "authorities"( read "control freaks"). I am sure that by now a lot of people are scared enough to make sure the water authorities have a good excuse to jack up the price under the pretext of scarcity ( more bloody GST).
As for this global warming shyte and whatever, I don't know what to believe, I am sure some misguided theorist will put me straight. But if the change is as predicted then I am sure mother nature will put it right at her pace and at a cost to us, like always. If man is changing the world and environment then we have to live with it until we really know what is going on although I believe we have been there before. In the meantime I will enjoy life and all its quirks.

[woodsprite]

I have a passing interest in weather and weather records - just enjoy it. Just checked the rainfall and evaporation for Bendigo for the 12 months to July this year. Rainfall - 451mm Evaporation - 1373mm. Which shows I guess that it is dry. We lost 3 times more moisture than we received. And I bet the figures are much worse in other parts of the country.

But, the radar shows rain down around Mt.Gambier - we might get a few drops up here - please Hughie!!!:rolleyes:
Jeff The Lesser

[Christopha]

I have a passing interest in weather and weather records - just enjoy it. Just checked the rainfall and evaporation for Bendigo for the 12 months to July this year. Rainfall - 451mm Evaporation - 1373mm. Which shows I guess that it is dry. We lost 3 times more moisture than we received. And I bet the figures are much worse in other parts of the country.

But, the radar shows rain down around Mt.Gambier - we might get a few drops up here - please Hughie!!!:rolleyes:
Jeff The Lesser

BUGGER OFF! I saw it first!:p

[echnidna]

It's probably not rain - only a flock of seagulls flying over the Blue Lake :p

[Clinton1]

I was talking with some farmers from up at Tatura (near Shepparton) and they told me that in country Victoria the suicide rate amongst Victorian farmers is 1 every 4 days.
They all were of the opinion that the long term outlook is for drier years.
A bloody mess.

[havenoideaatall]

I can't understand the way its 'ooh Stage 2 restrictions - major drama' which based on my water usages are already way too lenient. chief waters the garden with the water from the baby bath. We've never used a hose out the back in 3 odd years. We should be restricting sooner and faster.

[Cliff Rogers]

http://mirror.bom.gov.au/products/IDR212.loop.shtml

We are due West of Innisfail & slighly North East of Ravenshoe. :cool:

[journeyman Mick]

I can't understand the way its 'ooh Stage 2 restrictions - major drama' which based on my water usages are already way too lenient. chief waters the garden with the water from the baby bath. We've never used a hose out the back in 3 odd years. We should be restricting sooner and faster.


There's a simple way to restrict water usage, but it's not politically popular: price it waaaay higher than the current levels, with the extra revenues to go to building new infrastructure or subsidising domestic tank installations. Hit people in the hip pocket and they'll soon reduce usage.

Mick (flame away, I've got my firefighting gear handy:D )

[lesmeyer]

There's a simple way to restrict water usage, but it's not politically popular: price it waaaay higher than the current levels, with the extra revenues to go to building new infrastructure or subsidising domestic tank installations. Hit people in the hip pocket and they'll soon reduce usage.

Mick (flame away, I've got my firefighting gear handy:D )
Mick,
I would support this concept except for one weee problem. We cannot trust the pollies/authorities to use the the money that it is intended for. They will siphon it off for projects that will get them re-elected.
Les

[tameriska]

Hi, Mount Gambier here, had a thunderstorm tonight, bout maybe 2 hours ago, bout maybe half hour of rain, if that.

[woodsprite]

Hi Tameriska - you pinched all the rain! That band just whipped past us about 10 minutes ago and I could count the drops! Yeah, all 12 of them:o still there may be a bit more over night.
Jeff

[tameriska]

Sorry :mad:

[Bob38S]

Mick,
I would support this concept except for one weee problem. We cannot trust the pollies/authorities to use the the money that it is intended for. They will siphon it off for projects that will get them re-elected.
Les

You betcha - that's just exactly what would happen - have a look see at the rego costs etc which is supposed to be for roads etc.
You can't trust "toes" with your $$$$

[silentC]

When I bought my house I bought two more tanks and now have suffcient water to get through any dry spells while others are buying water.
We've thought about shelling out for another tank ($9,000). Thing is, that buys a hell of a lot of loads of water from the Bega river ($170 per 20,000 litres). Our neighbours have been here for over a year. They had to buy in two loads last year, so at a rate of two loads per year, it would take us 26 years to pay off the tank. Still I hate seeing it run out of the overflow. Last lot of rain, we could have filled four tanks. It's like watching money run out onto the ground.

[Bleedin Thumb]

Silent, I don't think it will be too long before the Gov will increase subsidies on tanks. I'd give it 2 years.

[silentC]

I don't think we qualify. Not on town water. Would be glad to hear I'm wrong though...

[Metal Head]

Water Levels Dropping

WELL STRIKE ME DOWN - WHAT A SURPRISE:rolleyes:.


December 08, 2006 12:00am - MELBOURNE'S water storages have dropped by 1.6 per cent this week, leaving the city's reservoirs at 40.9 per cent capacity. Water reserves are 19 percentage points lower than they were a year ago, Melbourne Water said. No rain was recorded in the catchments this week while total water use was slightly higher than for the same time last year.

So 40.9% divided by 1.6% = 25 weeks - well at least I will know if the Aussies had beaten "The Poms" by then - so I can die happy of thirst.

[Doughboy]

My folks claimed the rebate for a tank in Canberra and a year later they recieved a bill for water catchment!!!!

Dad then sent them a bill for upkeep of said catchment area. It never made it to court but he does not get any bills for water catchment now.

Just keep this in mind.

Pete

[Bob38S]

My folks claimed the rebate for a tank in Canberra and a year later they recieved a bill for water catchment!!!!

Dad then sent them a bill for upkeep of said catchment area. It never made it to court but he does not get any bills for water catchment now.

Just keep this in mind.

Pete

Love your Dad's style - should be more of it.:D:D:D