Australian values and culture???

[Clinton1]

A bloke at work asked me:
"As you are married to someone who was not raised in Australia, will you raise your children to have 'Australian values and an Australian culture' or your wife's culture and values".

I replied that I didn't really know what Australian values were and that I was stuffed if I knew what Australian culture was.... that most of what I think is important is not 'valued' by too many people, and what I see as 'Australian culture' is not practiced by too many people.

He couldn't really give me an example of Australian values and culture...

so, what's important to you?

[tameriska]

Stand by your word, Help someone if you can, treat others as you would like to be treated (or treat them as they treat you) Be there for your mates, and try to do the best that you can.
Thats what I try to do

[Gumby]

Sex on demand. (preferably with a female) :D

[craigb]

Sex on demand. (preferably with a female) :D

Too bad you're married then. :D :D :D

[Auld Bassoon]

Stand by your word, Help someone if you can, treat others as you would like to be treated (or treat them as they treat you) Be there for your mates, and try to do the best that you can.

Thats what I try to do

Spot on Tameriska!

I'd only add:


Always be honest
Listen and take account of other's opinions and sensitivities and/or tastes
Respect people for their values & beliefsAge old values really, and not much to do with any kind of nationalism, religion or political belief. Just simple human values.

[Toolin Around]

Sex on demand. (preferably with a female) :D


The "preferably" leaves that one wide open... so to speak;)

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Rule one - no pooftahs.
Rule two - no member of the faculty is to maltreat the local indigeonious tribesmen in any way whatsoever - if there's anybody watching.
Rule three - no pooftahs.
Rule four - I don't want to catch anyone not drinking in their room after lights out.
Rule five - no pooftahs.
Rule six - there is no rule six!
Rule seven - no pooftahs.

That concludes the reading of the rules, Bruce.

This here's the wattle - the emblem of our land. You can stick it in a bottle or you can hold it in your hand.

Amen!

[chrisb691]

Maaaaaate. I can't wait to see Dingo's input. :D

[Iain]

Andy me old Son, I was once accused of being homophobic, ny response was that I was not afraid of them, just didn't like them:D :D :D :D
And shouldn't it be 'Poofters'.
Sod it, who cares.............

[Wongo]

To my 2 half Chinese and half Australian daughters

Love your parents (Number 1 no doubt.)
Love each other
Love your family
Love your friends
Be honest
Work hard
Help others
Be grateful

Damn I am starting to talk like a religious bloke.

[pawnhead]

I can't take credit for this but I thought it was pretty cool and worth posting. Bit of a long read though:-
There may be better places in the world to visit, but i'll be buggered if i'd live anywhere else than here.

When I think of a 'typical Aussie' I get an image of a bronzed man or woman, who have Milo and Weet-Bix for breakfast, Vegemite for lunch, and a bbq and beer for tea. Tim-Tams are the national snack, beating the Poms at anything the national sport (although we're getting tired of that, time to move focus to the Yanks). It's getting in there and having a go. It's calling your best mate a total bastard, and your worst enemy a bit of a bastard. It's the Hills Hoist, the Holden Ute, Gum Trees and Simpson washing machines. It's dusty kids with big smiles. It's verandah's as large as the rest of the house.

It's Victa mowers cutting foot long grass that was only mowed two weeks ago. It's having a laugh with your mates. It's scones, sheep stations the size of European countries, and Tim-Tams. It's being girt by sea and by lunchtime. It's about being so lustful for international recognition we celebrate winning against the poms in Darts. It's about a Highway which kills more people each year than die by murder. It's taking a criminal and making him a hero. It's "no worries mate", "she'll be right mate", and "Waltzing Matilda" all rolled into one. It's shielas, blokes, wankers, pooftas, dancing queens, wowzers, Jumbucks, Jackaroos, Jillaroos, Walleroos, Kangaroos, Koalas and an animal that is so strange that when it was first discovered, people thought it was a joke.

It's women in unfeasably small bikinis putting coins into your parking meter while you're off getting . It's immigrants from the 50's saying they don't want any more immigrants. It's making a feature film about a bunch of traveling queers and calling it a national triumph. It's taking our greatest military defeat and turning it into the birth of a nation, while simultaneously ignoring Black Sunday against the Germans.

It's footy in the office, betting on the Finals, supporting your local team (even if half of them come from Melbourne) and code wars in the Pub. It's massive bronzed Aussie blokes with arms like powerpoles meeting you at Customs with a smile and a G'Day. It's calling out to the man on the boundry for thirty minutes to turn and wave, and when he does, give a cheer and start all over again. It's having 9 of the 10 most deadly land animals on the face of the planet in our backyards.

It's the population of New York occupying a country the size of Europe. It's about standing by your mate, no matter what stupid thing he's done now. It's about a tennis star who is called a brat with one breath, and a bloody legend the next. It's about flying over the centerpiece of our nation on the way to Bali or Malaysia. It's Melbourne and Sydney competing with each other as to who is the best city in the country, while the rest of us know they're both rubbish. It's our distrust of politicians and moral elitists. It's having the world record for the single largest mass shooting, which the Yanks can't seem to beat no matter how often they try.

It's surf lifesavers who are the envy of the world. It's meat pies with sauce, calling French Fries chips, and buying wine by the cask. It's hating the French, beating the English, and laughing at the Americans, who think 'World Series' means only two countries are allowed to participate. It's about arguing whether it's Cabanossi or Kabana. It's the Blue Heeler, the Kelpie, and the Tuckerbox. It's making cars so good that we export them to every Continent except Antartica.

It's inventing a sporting catch-cry in three seconds, while other teams supporters plan for months. It's chasing fish poachers halfway around the world just so we can confiscate their boat and sell their catch. It's cricket in the backyard, over-and-out, batter fetches, one-hand-one-bounce, electric wickets, and tipsy-runs. It's having some of the brightest coloured birds in the world, that you can't see in the trees no matter how hard you look. It's Magpies calling in the morning, Crows cawing in the afternoon, and Possums climbing in your window after dark.

It's getting a Kiddy Pool and suddenly finding your children have a lot of new friends. It's wearing thongs on your feet, not up your crack. It's walking into the shopping center bare-chested for the guys and shorts and bikini top for the girls, and no one gives you a second glance. It's budgie-smugglers on the beach, and tackle out at home. It's Hoop Snakes, Drop Bears, Electric Trees and Kapop Birds. It's leaning over the fence to have a yarn with the neighbours. It's playing a code of football so tough and without padding, overseas visitors think we're mad. It's not knowing for sure what half the words to the National Anthem are, but still singing what they _might be_ with pride. And it's a sports flag and team colours which have nothing to do with the national flag.

There. That just about covers it

[JDarvall]

John....I couldn't be bothered reading all that.

Honestys always good. You can breathe when your honest.

But then I suppose, you can be too honest...... which gets you into trouble too doesn't it....well, it gets me into trouble. Its too complicated.

As for Australian values... I agree,,,,how do you define such things.....Its a difficult concept to grasp and opinionated..... and even if you could define it.....why ?

Besides, I think these things come naturally. They don't need to be spoken about I reakon. Isn't it the defining of these things that initiates unrest between cultures anyway ?

[scooter]

Good post John :)


It's about a fair go for all, no matter what colour or creed.

[silentC]

Well, it's a good question. If you spent the 90's in Sydney working in the IT industry, then these are the values you would have attributed to most people:

1. Earn as much money as you can, it's the only thing that matters
2. Hock yourself up to the eyeballs to get a nice house in a 'nice' suburb
3. Buy a flash car
4. Have extra-marital sex at least once
5. Get to the top at the expense of as many others as you can
6. Screw loyalty and consideration for others

Fortunately, whilst I believe that a great majority of people in this country hold those views, there are still a lot of people around who haven't followed the rest of the place into the "me me me" mentality.

So if that's what we mean when we say 'Australian values', well I don't think they're any different to the values of people from any other country in the western world.

[Gra]

Well, it's a good question. If you spent the 90's in Sydney working in the IT industry, then these are the values you would have attributed to most people:

1. Earn as much money as you can, it's the only thing that matters
2. Hock yourself up to the eyeballs to get a nice house in a 'nice' suburb
3. Buy a flash car
4. Have extra-marital sex at least once
5. Get to the top at the expense of as many others as you can
6. Screw loyalty and consideration for others

Fortunately, whilst I believe that a great majority of people in this country hold those views, there are still a lot of people around who haven't followed the rest of the place into the "me me me" mentality.

So if that's what we mean when we say 'Australian values', well I don't think they're any different to the values of people from any other country in the western world.

Silent, you are confusing Sydent IT people with real people.....:D:D

Sound of a Melbourne Geek ducking:D:D...

[RufflyRustic]

Being able to leave the house unlocked and the keys in the car
Looking out for your neighbour and keeping an eye on all the kids playing in the street while enjoying a drink on the front verandah
Kids being able to get together and go down the creek for a swim
Swooping magpies
getting yelled at to shut the screen door
screen doors going bang crash at 3:30 pm in the afternoon when the kids get home from school
Aussie ingenuity - getting in and out of trouble, fixing things when you haven't got the tools or know how, but your mates/neighbours do
the good ole Aussie beer and bbq on a sunday with your mates.....

....
....
...

[AlexS]

Pretty well all the above apply, but based on my immediate neighbourhood, it's

giving to or getting from a neighbour a bucket of oranges, zucchini's, spuds etc.

having a neighbour (who we wave to often but don't often chat to) drop in a bunch of flowers when SWMBO's mother died.

neighbours dropping in to see if everyone's OK when they see the ambulance outside.

kids kicking a footy around in the street.

I could go on - ain't it a great place.

[silentC]

I actually believe that a lot of the 'values' people talk about aren't particularly Australian, in that we don't own them. I think it's more about a generation of people that could be found here, in the UK, and in the US amongst others. Let's not confuse 'values' with nostalgia.

One of the reasons I brought my kids back here and got them away from Sydney was the nostalgia I felt for the place where I grew up and how wonderful it was back then. Guess what? It's not like any more. In some ways it is but in others it has not stood still while time moved on. We have crime. Some people do leave their doors unlocked but you only have to read the paper to see that break-ins happen every week. There are a lot of selfish people here. The overwhelming majority of them are recently retired people, the ones we thought held onto "the values", who have sold their million dollar properties in Melbourne and moved here for a "sea change" (how I am coming to despise that phrase).

We now have no late night venue for local young people because of the hard work of a few whinging pensioners in Merimbula. The local paper is full of people complaining about anything and everything, from dogs crapping on the beach, to young people congregating on Saturday nights. Where do they expect them to go? They forced their night club to close!!

I think the Australia of the past is gone and it ain't coming back.

Gra: :p

[Andy Mac]

This is a curly one, Clinton, esp. in light of this recent push by govt. to have immigrants uphold our "values". I've been battling to think of a set of values we all believe, or even better, live by. Certainly none stand out as unique, and as SilentC says, a lot of the older ones have sort of become nostalgic, or a way of seeing the country as we fondly imagine it to be. But I think what makes us Australian is more an attitude more than a list of shared values.
A couple of things that stand out for me (admittedly an immigrant, 40+ years ago): We have a strange ambivilence about authority, possibly connected to a convict past...on one hand we distrust it, mock it, we even kid ourselves we ignore it, but as a nation we are remarkably law abiding, even accepting over-regulation about nearly everything. And then keep voting in people to lay down more laws!!
And I think apathy would have to be part of out national attitude. As long as we can do our thing without working too hard; or being pestered about religion or military service; or actually making a stand as the natural resources are pilfered for the betterment of the few; and our universties are drained, and public services are sold for profit... we couldn't give a rat's!! "She'll be right mate" we say, and toss another second-rate steak on the BBQ (as the prime cut has been shipped overseas), and sip a factory produced 'lager'.:D :rolleyes: We wouldn't want it any other way!

Cheers,

[Bleedin Thumb]

I think that if you could possible define Australian values we have over the previous posts. What I find equally perplexing is UnAustralian values or behaviour.
It used to be considered unaustralian to dob in your neighbours even if they were crims now I can't even go camping without someone dobing me in to Nation Parks. Make noise in your own yard and someone complains. Get in a fight - used to be you dont kick a bloke when he's down now its stab him in the back.

Australian values... more I think of it the more I beleive that Silent is right, that it is more a nostalgia for a past - probably the egalitarian 50's that people romance about. Not to say that respect for law, honesty, politeness etc etc are gone .....but aren't these the remnants of a primoidal instinct that we have embeded in our psyche that enables us to coexist in tight social structures?:rolleyes:

Christ where did that sentence come from???
Time for a beer.:D

[Clinton1]

I actually believe that all humans share pretty much the same values, just that different cultures change the way the values are 'acted out'.

I agree with the sentiment re nostalgia, except that I was brought up to value the 'old ways', I expect others will share them and still value them, and I am continually turned off when most of the people I know do not have them.
Actually, I know more recent immigrants that share my values than Australians that were raised here! What the?

I don't think that my values are shared by too many other people, which isn't a concern, however when this clown asked his question I thought "well, my values aren't yours and my values are out of step with most of the people I see so how do I answer this question?"

Its a curly one, and I don't think I've seen 'the answer' in this thread yet although there is some good food for thought.

I guess the main point of contention, for me, is that values should be valued. I see a lot of people that pay lipservice to the propaganda you hear spouted about values and culture, but not too many are willing to VALUE them enough to practice them.

I'll post this without trying to make this post any clearer, been trying to say what I mean 'better' for a while... not sure if I could!:rolleyes:

[TEEJAY]

Argh the place is full of ignorant and apathetic people - what do you think?

Don't know

Don't care.

Now as for the the good old days with life as we loved it - go bush it is still there. Don't go just bush gooooooo bush

[Flowboy]

Hi,

They say you can never go home. It's never the same. Maybe they are right. Like Bleedin Thumb, and Clinton1 I miss the old days, but of course when you looka t it objectively, they weren't much different.
Emil Zola wrote a book called Earth, describing a day in the life of a 17century French peasant. Get up, go to work, hope you've got a jog at the end of the dy, go to the pub, get drunk go home, eat, molest the wife, sleep and "when the mornin light comes creepin' in we'll get up and do it aagin" (Jack Browne for those who want to know.)

Get me on a bad day and I'll go for hours, see I suffer from the Depression and generalised anxiety poor TassieKiwi has had to deal with.
Australian Values now are (at least today)
Bugger you mate I'm alright
Mateship, whats that, it'll cost me.
Pay me more
Charge me less
Never mind the quality, feel the width and let eveybody else find their own way.

It hurts, boy it hurts,

Rob

[coastie]

I think we have seen the best of things,place is going to hell in a handbasket!!:mad:

[silentC]

Trouble is, the best of things all happened when I was young! ;)

[lesmeyer]

These quotes are taken from Wikepedia describing the song "True Blue" by John Williamson. Does go some way in describing what being Australian is. My take is that is not so much what we eat or drink, but rather our attitude to other people and to life.
Regards
Les

True Blue
Steadfast loyal Australian who displays the Aussie ideals of a fair go for all, mateship, having a go, and solving problems.
Fair Dinkum
Virtually the same as True Blue - honest, reliable, trustworthy, dinki-di; someone who has embraced the Aussie attitudes to everything, especially mateship.

[bitingmidge]

Let's not confuse 'values' with nostalgia.

Hmmm.. well spoken silent, but let's also not confuse "nostalgia", with "history".

Historically whether we like it or not, we were a Christian country swamped in British tradition. Our values developed from that tradition, with a healthy dose of "honour among thieves" thrown in for good measure.

I have a full set of primary school readers in my possession, the ones that went out of use in Queensland in about 1965. My father was educated from essentially the same texts in the 1920's, as was I and actually so was my grandmother. They were little more than a horrifying blend of Empirical propaganda, urging us to do what is right, to work hard, keep the nose to the grindstone, do it all selflessly for King and Country and above all to sacrifice ourselves for the good of man.

(If you don't believe me, I'll happily scan a few pages!)

That was the Australia we grew up in until the 70's, we respected authority and feared or at least were suspicious of, anything that didn't have it's roots in Judao-Christian philosophy, meat, and three veg.

That was the Australian tradition.

There was no such thing as multi-culturalism. If you came here to live from another country, you were a "New Australian", and I know some immigrants who took a good deal of pride in that moniker. It truly reflected for them, a new beginning and new hope. It wasn't a derisory term (although I have heard it used as such). Of course you could only be a "New Australian" if you came from a small selection of Western European countries, so racial intolerance is a fair part of the Australian tradition as well.

History also shows that it was a harsh place, a blokes place, a place where survival meant looking out for yourself, and relying on others to look out for you too. This was no place for arty farty types or nancy boys!
It wasn't utopia, but the core values were clear and well understood, even if it meant bashing the odd poof or "reffo". Status quo was maintained.

Then they changed the school reader, and after a few generations of Dick and Jane and Nip and Fluff, those values were forgotten. In the push for equality and egalitarianism the historical core values were dismissed, and strangely not replaced by anything. A new tradition of knocking, of talking in the negative without providing viable positive alternative was created.

As a result of this "free thought", there is no longer a core set of Australian values. Multiculturalism and liberalism (ironically mostly not from the Liberal Party) has eroded the simple cores to the point where they are not identifiable.

In its place we now have regional values, drawn on aspirational and even ethnic lines. silent moved to Merimbula to be in a place where the values more closely matched his own, people live in Redfern and Cabramatta and the Gold Coast for the same reasons, each community has very different standards, often far removed from what historically we knew to be "Australian".

I think I'll think about this some more.. thanks Clinton! :mad: ;)

Cheers,

P (just an observation you understand!)
:D :D :D

[silentC]

I think there needs to be more of this (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=38874).

;)

[craigb]

Historically whether we like it or not....

Can't disagree with any of that Mr Midge.

A well reasoned obversation I reckon. :)

[Clinton1]

I agree with a lot of things you said BM, however having been brought up in the country and outback I wouldn't agree with the view about the intolerance toward the immigrant, new australian or that only western Europeans were welcomed. My upbringing shows the exact opposite.

I think it is a convenient untruth spouted by certain self serving tossers that earlier Australians were racist... maybe in the cities (actually - most definitely in the cities), but not so in the country.
I know that country people are painted as racist, maybe they are now? It certainly wasn't like that when I grew up or when my parents/grandparents were growing up.

A lot of the Empirical propaganda was recognised as being bull, a lot of it was accepted as being 'of worth'.


urging us to do what is right, to work hard, keep the nose to the grindstone, do it all selflessly for King and Country and above all to sacrifice ourselves for the good of man
replace "King and Country" with community and family and I reckon that quote is about spot on.
Much better than "bludge off from work to go down the pub and suck a few beers"... or the modern version of "bludge off from everything and go to a venue and drop some chemicals".

[silentC]

I know that country people are painted as racist, maybe they are now?
Not true. We hate everybody equally. :p

[johnc]

My wifes maternal Grandparents came out from Italy with a young family in the 50's. By the 70's I believe they had come to think that Aussies had let there values slip a bit. It came as a shock when they went back to the "old country" for a visit to find that their values had slipped as well and the youth where pretty much the same as here. John Howard can jam his Aussie values we can all probably name a few Aussies and Imigrants whose values suck, and also name a few out of both pools whose values we can admire. I don't think that changes much any where else either, human values seem to be pretty standard.

Nostalgia is seen through a pretty hazy rose coloured glass, I don't care for some of the bigotry I remember in the 60's and care even less for self serving policians playing the race card for their own ends today.

John.

[silentC]

It came as a shock when they went back to the "old country" for a visit to find that their values had slipped as well
Ah yes, the Rip van Winkle effect :D

[HappyHammer]

I moved to Australia because of the weather, lifestyle and the upfront nature of the Australians I met when I travelled here.

My children have a foreign parent, me, but I want them to be Australian in mindset and attitude but ultimately, if we do our job well, the biggest influence on their values will be me and the wife, not suggesting we'll create clones because if they're anything like us they'll have their own minds, views and develop values of their own based on their experiences and environment.


Well, it's a good question. If you spent the 90's in Sydney working in the IT industry, then these are the values you would have attributed to most people:

1. Earn as much money as you can, it's the only thing that matters
2. Hock yourself up to the eyeballs to get a nice house in a 'nice' suburb
3. Buy a flash car
4. Have extra-marital sex at least once
5. Get to the top at the expense of as many others as you can
6. Screw loyalty and consideration for others

Fortunately, whilst I believe that a great majority of people in this country hold those views, there are still a lot of people around who haven't followed the rest of the place into the "me me me" mentality.

I was all of these things at work except number 4 in the 80's and 90's and whilst my priorities have changed dramatically since my children came along I don't feel I need to apologise for that time I enjoyed it and wouldn't change it if I could.

Also if I'm really honest my mentality has expanded to "me and my family" rather than "me me me" and whilst I treat people as I'd like to be treated my priorities are firmly based close to home, call me selfish if you like.:p

HH.

[bitingmidge]

I agree with a lot of things you said BM, however having been brought up in the country and outback I wouldn't agree with the view about the intolerance toward the immigrant, new australian or that only western Europeans were welcomed. My upbringing shows the exact opposite.
I too was brought up as far away from the Capital as it is possible to get, in a location where there was a strong(ish) Asian community.

OK, there was one family, but they were our friends and when I was five there seemed to be millions of them.:D

Read a little of the white Australia policy and tell me that non-Europeans were welcomed! They were the yellow peril, and I still know people (probably some on this board) who keep guns to protect themselves when they inevitably invade.

No... fear of Asians is a healthy part of our history! ;) As was fear of wog food for that matter.

Strangely enough, from some accounts I've read, the treatment of refugees now is substantially better than it was post WW2.

All of the above are personal observations from my 1.5 eyes.

Cheers,

P:D

[silentC]

I was all of these things at work except number 4 in the 80's and 90's and whilst my priorities have changed dramatically since my children came along I don't feel I need to apologise for that time I enjoyed it and wouldn't change it if I could.
I thought that was what I wanted to be. It was expected, almost thrust upon you. I always thought I wasn't trying hard enough because I wasn't as happy or successful as everyone else seemed to be. Everywhere I looked, my work mates were driving BMWs and buying houses on the north shore or the eastern suburbs. Then one day I realised they weren't happy either, it was all a facade. Things don't make you happy, all they do is give you more to worry about. I didn't want it enough and I couldn't fake it, so I opted out.

[HappyHammer]

I thought that was what I wanted to be. It was expected, almost thrust upon you. I always thought I wasn't trying hard enough because I wasn't as happy or successful as everyone else seemed to be. Everywhere I looked, my work mates were driving BMWs and buying houses on the north shore or the eastern suburbs. Then one day I realised they weren't happy either, it was all a facade. Things don't make you happy, all they do is give you more to worry about. I didn't want it enough and I couldn't fake it, so I opted out.

That's exactly what I did after my kids came along and I've gotta say it's been one of the most positive decisions I've ever made.

I can't say that having "stuff" doesn't bring me pleasure it does I just have to wait a little longer than before. Now I'm out of the have to have everything yesterday culture I'm finding that waiting isn't as big an issue as I thought it might be. I'm quite happy to bimble on and take things as they come. I now have a little stash that I accumulate over time rather than salivating over what to spend my bonus on each year and I'm fine with that.

I would have found it much more difficult to turn this corner if I hadn't removed myself from an environment that promoted impatience and greed I love living out of the city and will never go back. If anything I might move further out.

HH.

[silentC]

I can't say that having "stuff" doesn't bring me pleasure it does I just have to wait a little longer
Yes, important stuff, like nice tools and lots of wood ;)

I just think back to the guys with the flash cars - they were always worried about where to park them, people backing into them, keying the doors etc. My old ####box Magna (which I had at the time) I could park anywhere and not worry about it.

[HappyHammer]

Yes, important stuff, like nice tools and lots of wood ;)

I just think back to the guys with the flash cars - they were always worried about where to park them, people backing into them, keying the doors etc. My old ####box Magna (which I had at the time) I could park anywhere and not worry about it.

I know exactly what you're saying. When I was single I had a brand new Merc and often met friends for drinks in dubious locations and worried constantly that someone would scratch it, ding it or steal it. Now I have my truck that's everyone elses problem.:D Plus parking up here is a doddle compared to Sydney.

HH.

[bennylaird]

Best thing about driving a well loved car is that it's fun to see others trying to get away from you:D :D :D

[silentC]

I'll have to post a pic of my current limo one day. It's a lime green Mazda Capella. 1974. The wife drives the Falcon wagon mostly because she needs room for kids and golf sticks. I probably drive once a week if that. I ride the pushy to work now - 10 minutes each way. City life? Ha!!

[Clinton1]

BM,
I'm very aware of the White Australia policy.... however my experience was/is that it was not something that country and outback people had a lot of time for.
Thats where I am from.

It was a populist political platform that was supported by a lot of (or most of the city) people, however in the country it was seen as not making a lot of sense. A fair bit of xenophobia, yes, but take a look at the reality of life in the outback, west of the great dividing range and in the NT and NW WA.
As I said, "I think it is a convenient untruth spouted by ... tossers... early Australians were racist, but not so in the country".

[Iain]

I still have memories of Enoch Powells catchcry 'if you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote labour'.
But of course that was not Australia, he was making reference to the West Indians in the UK.
Does it make any difference?

[silentC]

it was not something that country and outback people had a lot of time for
This may depend on where you come from. My parents are both country people born and bred - south eastern Victoria. I can garauntee you that if Pauline Hansen had been running for PM they would have voted for her. They would have been very happy if Australia had retained that policy.

[bitingmidge]

As I said, "I think it is a convenient untruth spouted by ... tossers... early Australians were racist, but not so in the country".

You've got a point, in the bush they poisoned the Aboriginals for reasons other than racism, and always gave them the same opportunity as the white fellas. :eek:

My experience (and I've had a bit in the country too) is that where there was no ethnic minority, there wasn't a problem, but ask my wog mate Sam how life was growing up in the 50's in Ingham (for an ethnic majority), or perhaps someone from Mildura or the Barossa would like to ruminate on life for immigrants after the war? He'd say not too bad, because his family were "new Australians".

My Dutch fencer in the 70's on the other hand had a less than perfect life in terms of his welcome (as a refugee in the early 50's)..he was working as a rabbit trapper and a fencer and I don't believe he trapped many rabbits in the city!

Cheers,

P

[sea dragon]

I am increasingly of the view that we are no longer one country, in terms of values.
As a predominant city dweller, I always had enormous respect for the implicit values of country people. I do not mean their slower pace of life that is reflected in so many aspects of their approach to life. Rather, it is the lesser proportion of people focusing on more selfish values, relative to the fast-times city slickers.
At rugby tests, John Williamson has been a singer of Waltzing Matilda. I rather like it and see a further benefit of him managing to get one of the best seats in the house. I have been amazed at the antipathy his song arouses in my adult son.
Am I in a nostalgic time warp and he is in the here and now?
Is there an ever greater difficulty in having a national identity as we are burdened by international film and TV influences?
I used to think we would always get around problems and endorse a certain iconic larrikanism. The plight of David Hicks and the very approach of jingoism to be associated with anti-terrorism frightens the heck out of me. Where is the old approach of not necessarily agreeing with what someone may say or do, but respecting and preserving his right to say or do?
I think we need to live in a skewed past, relying on our perceptions of some idylllic era to be viewed through rose-coloured glasses. Reality can be too confronting and too cruel, accepting that it takes time to be universally accurate.
Clinton, you have raised an absolutely fascinating and timely issue.
One plus is a reductionof predjudices by many, but unfortunately not all of our population. The One Nation was a salutory reminder of a xenophobic past and a failure to reject theerrors of the White Australia Policy.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I think we need to live in a skewed past, relying on our perceptions of some idylllic era to be viewed through rose-coloured glasses.

I trust you're not casting aspersions in my direction with that? :eek: Rosé is a chaps drink and I want it on the record that my glasses are amber coloured. Well... when they're full anyway. Errrm... and when I haven't run out. But any change of colour is covered under the Code of Practice! No brollies here, I swear! (Do straws count?)

Apart from that, as I am living in a skewed past (and present and future) I'll drink to those sentiments! [hic] :p