2nd Bedroom - Adding an Ensuite

[Tok]

Hi All,

Please see attached proposed plans for adding an ensuite to our 2nd bedroom at the back of the house.

My question relates to council approvals. Given that I'm not making any structural mods to load-bearing members etc by adding the new door, replacing a window with french doors, and adding two extra walls, and given that the total cost of the reno is under $5K, and that all of the work is internal and doesn't affect the "face" of the dwelling, do I need to get a council approval to do this?

If so, how do I go about it? Is there a web site where I can get hold of the relevant forms, maybe submit the plans etc?

Thanks!

T

[durwood]

Well I wouldn't tell the council but thats me. ring them up and ask the question "can I change the window to a french door?" They won't know who you are, if they say no need to go ahead, just get the persons name and the date and time you make the call.

I would suspect unless you have lousy neighbours they would never know you had made any changes.

First I would make the changes inside so that if they do come and look its just that a window to a door' as the rest "was" always there'

They are only after a fee from you.

[pawnhead]

I wouldn't tell them either, but technically you should since you're altering the outside with the french doors and the windows in the bathroom. They also require an inspection of the waterproofing membrane in the bathroom, and they require waterboard aproval and inspections involving a licensed plumber who's required to update the drainage diagram of the property to the waterboard.
Basically it involves; drawing up floor plans and one of each elevation, owner builders permits fees, owner builders course, inspections, fees, approvals, footpath damage deposit, fees, red tape, fees, delays, fees, insurances, fees, long service levys and then some more fees. Depending on the council it could also involve a development application, notification of neighbours, placing a notification in the local paper and also at the front of your property, then giving people time to object to the aplication.
So after six months, and spending more money than the alterations are worth, you might be able to start swinging your hammer. ;)

Good luck. :D

[Tok]

Thanks for the replies guys :)

Yep, it's pretty much as I thought: any excuse to get cash out of you. A relatively simple reno would turn into 6 months work with a cast of thousands and a budget to rival a Hollywood blockbuster (exceeded, of course!).

I know *for sure* the neighbours wouldn't have a problem with it.

If I'm reading this right:

http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/bccwr/lib111/generaladvicejan06_1.pdf

Says:

<SNIP>

4. Minor building work

Minor building work on land not located on a small
lot, not listed on the Heritage Register, or located
within the Petrie Terrace and Spring Hill Local
Plan or in the Brisbane River Corridor is exempt
development.
</SNIP>

<SNIP>

Minor building work means:
• In a Residential Area:
- internal building works
- roofed structures over ground level outdoor
landscape and recreation areas, ie. pergolas
and patios
- sunhoods over windows and doors
- raising a house where the resultant height does
not exceed 8.5m above ground level and side
boundary setbacks comply with the requirements
of the Standard Building Regulations
- roof over an existing deck or balcony
- rainwater tanks where no greater than 3.5 m
in height and with a footprinf of 10m2 or less
<SNIP>

Given my building isn't in any of those areas, and it's internal building works, one would think that the development is exempt under the city plan.

(Interesting sidenote: it also appears that building a roof over an existing deck and installing a small rainwater tank are ALSO exempt ... both of which I had been told you needed approvals for).

Thanks again!

T

[pawnhead]

I'm not too sure, but I think what you've got there is Brisbanes equivalent of a D.A. (Development Aplication). That's different from a B.A. (Building Application). D.A.s are generally required if there's an impact on town planning or your neighbours which goes beyond council regulations. (although some councils require them for all building applications, it looks like Brisbane doesn't).
From what I can gather reading this document:-
http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:NijtXt_g18IJ:edo.org.au/edoqld/edoqld/factsheets/factsheet7.pdf+building+application+brisbane&hl=en&gl=au&ct=clnk&cd=1
You can do the works by employing a private certified inspector. Just because you don't need to apply under their "City Plan", doesn't mean that any Joe Public can go knocking holes/ installing windows/ altering plumbing and drainage/ installing waterproof membranes or building dodgy pergola roofs that fly off in the first storm.
But as I've said, I'd just go ahead and do it, and play dumb whilst quoting the document that you produced saying that you didn't need approval. If your neighbours don't complain then it's highly unlikely that anything will happen, and the worst case will probably be just a slap on the wrist, and they'll tell you to get a certifier to sign off on it, being constructed in accordance with the relevant building codes.

[woodsprite]

If it was me - well it was me about 20 years ago! - I would go ahead and do it. Sounds very much like you know what to do and how to do it well. The only problem I can see is IF you decide to sell the place down the track a bit, prospective buyers might want to see documentation for the work. But that is probably a big IF!

I was happy to take the chance - saved me heaps and no probs after 20 years - and if we ever sell the new buyers will probably want to re-do eveything anyway.
So, proceed well......
Jeff

[woodsprite]

Should have mentioned - building codes probably differ a bit from place to place. Our neighbour converted a garage to a bedroom, renovated the kitchen, added a bathroom, and a few other things - all of which did not involve load-bearing structures - all without the need for council approval or inspection. Admittedly she had a builder do a lot of the work, but she also did a fair bit. The builder told her that none of the work needed a council sign-off - so around here what the less the council knows, the better.
Jeff

[tameriska]

Re woodsprites comment, who is to prove it wasnt there before. Depends if your local council has copies of the houseplans. I dont have copies of my houseplans, and niether does our local council, apparently they threw them out years ago. Though, my house was built back in the 50's.

[ausdesign]

Normally the ensuite would require a permit.
The french doors would not if you weren't touching the lintel i.e. not enlarging the opening.
Closing the door way would not.
Creating the new doorway would, only if there was load on the top plate or there was a wall brace within that location.
If you do go down the track of a permit [which may be a consideration in relation to insurance claims in the future] make sure the non required items are not part of the application as councils work their fees in part as a percentage of the cost of the job.

[Tok]

All good information guys, thanks!

You're right, I think the doc I was reading was for DA's. Then again, that's all I can find, so I could always try brandishing that in my defence :)

I've checked with the local council ... nope, no plans. A council search only turns up two items: request to construct a dwelling (1946), and request to add an extension (1976). Neither of them were followed up with inspections, and neither have plans available.

Ironic, isn't it, that they happened 30 years apart ... and now, 30 years on, I'm looking at doing the same thing! :)

If anyone queries it, I'll probably end up telling them that the ensuite was there when we came (put in with the 1976 extension), and we just repaired it. There's absolute nothing around to say that isn't the case, and if it saves me the drama of going through the council and waiting on approvals etc, then all good.

I know for sure that the massive freestanding carport down the side (1) doesn't have any kind of applications / inspections relating to it, and (2) is illegal as hell: it's big enough to require guttering, and looks pretty flimsy. Demolition time for that as well, methinks.