white shellac

[schaf]

I have purchased a bottle of ubueat white shellac.I heard Neil say on that forum video that all you need is white shellac and wax.
Ok now how do you use it.
Can you brush it on,how long between coats,do you sand between coats,and how long should it sit before the wax is applied.
I would appreciate some advice ,thank you.
Regards
Terry

[Auld Bassoon]

Hi Terry,

My first and best advice would be to buy or borrow Neil's book on finishing - it really is about the best there is.

On white shelac, sand the timber to say 240 ~ 320. Wet it a little (ie with a damp cloth), and lightly sand again to remove the rasied grain.

Let it sit for 20 mins or so, then either with a decent brush or a soft (lint free) cloth brush/wipe on the shellac mixed with about 10% by volume of good Meths (not the water saturated sort from Bunnies). Let it dry for at least 8 hours (it'll seem dry to the touch in minutes, but it isn't really), then lightly sand with 400 w&d to remove the nibs. Repeat, then use 800w&d, going through stages to 1200w&d (maybe even 2000 or 2500, depending on the finish you want). Six to eight coats are good, more if you want a better finish, but remember that each must have a flat surface on which to start.

Let the piece stand for a week or so, then buff with EEE, then uBeaut Trad Wax, with a Swan's down mop ideally, then by hand.

[schaf]

Thanks Steve,
That is the information I was looking for.
So maybe White Shellac is not what I am looking for.
I wish to use it on carving and do not think I want to wait that long for the process to work its way through.
May be wipe on poly is the way to go.
Regards
Terry

[kiwigeo]

As Bassoon says use the technical grade meths not the stufdf you get from Mitre Ten or blunderings.

For wiping on I use well worn white T shirt material.

[schaf]

Where do you people by your 100% metho.Tried all the hardwares and paint shops in Caboolture area with no luck. Then rang the distributor/manufacturer and was told you need a permit from Aust. Tax office and it comes in 200lt drums.They also told me that metho from the local (95%) was ok for cutting shellac.
Some advice please.
Terry

[Dylan SJ]

I've bought mine from the local paint supplier. Never needed to buy more than 1 litre, let alone 200.

[kiwigeo]

Where do you people by your 100% metho.Tried all the hardwares and paint shops in Caboolture area with no luck. Then rang the distributor/manufacturer and was told you need a permit from Aust. Tax office and it comes in 200lt drums.They also told me that metho from the local (95%) was ok for cutting shellac.
Some advice please.
Terry

Technical grade meths available from outlets supplying french polishing materials. I get mine in 2 litre bottles from Restoration Antiques on Magill Road in Adelaide. Check out Liberon..they can probably point you in the right direction.

[RufflyRustic]

Schaf - Look for the Diggers brand, comes in a square-shaped bottle. It's what I use, without any problems.

Also, if using a brush - After use, I put the brush in a large, airtight sandwich bag with a little bit of the meths in the bottom corner. Hang the bag over the edge of the shelf and put a heavy tin on it to keep it hanging in place so the handle doesn't get meths/shellac on it. Idea adapted from the Finishing Bible.

Cheers
Wendy

[woodcutta]

Any supplier of Haymes paint can buy it in 1 Lt bottles from them. I pay about 6 bucks from the local "Paint Place"

Woodcutta

[Auld Bassoon]

I've bought mine from the local paint supplier. Never needed to buy more than 1 litre, let alone 200.

Ditto!

[Auld Bassoon]

One other tip. As I use finishes that variously involve Meths (eg shellac), Turps (eg Danish Oil) or water (stain, which I almost never use these days), I ALWAYS mark up each new brush with the legend "M", "T" or "W" with a marker pen before use - you really don't want to mix them!

[schaf]

I have been asking for industrial grade.Kiwigoe called it technical grade ,maybe I am asking for the wrong thing.
Will try again.
Terry

[kiwigeo]

I have been asking for industrial grade.Kiwigoe called it technical grade ,maybe I am asking for the wrong thing.
Will try again.
Terry

Its called either....it has other names also. Just ask for 100% meths. Dont have the suppliers name handy as I'm out at work.

[ubeaut]

Industrial Methylated Spirits or 100% IMS sometimes sold as Ethanol all the same thing. !00% isn't pure alcohol it is denatured alcohol with no addition of water. 95% is a misnomer as it could have up to 20% or more of water in it. Ordinary everyday or no name stuff is as a rule bloody useless as it could have as much as 45% water in it. To be sold as metho it only has to be OP (Over Proof) which means it will burn when a match is put to it, around 55% ethanol (meths)

To find out if your metho has water in it put a little into a bottle or jar and add a little mineral turpentine, shove a lid on and shake the living daylights out of it and if it clouds up (even a little) it has been watered down. If it clouds up a lot then it has been watered down a lot and really isn't suitable for mixing with shellac.

White shellac is the ideal thing for carvings as it will not change the colour of the timber any more than wetting the wood with water. One weak coat (8 parts metho to 1 part shellac) will seal the timber and raise the grain from the sanding this can be sanded off after about half an hour then a second coat of half strength shellac leave it to dry and wax or better still buff with EEE Ultra Shine for a beautiful sheen that will not overpower the carving but instead will bring it to life.

As a woodcarver and finisher I should know. I've used this process on many carvings over the years and it is by far the best, easiest, fastest and most beautiful finish for woodcarvings. Below is one I prepared earlier.

Crappy picture but you'll get the idea.
http://www.ubeaut.com.au/cofarms.jpg
One of 3 Coats of Arms I carved for the Supreme Courts in Melb roughly 3ft high x 3inches thick, Huon pine, finished with the above method. Still have a brilliant glow to them today.

Cheers - Neil :)

[schaf]

Thanks Neil,and one and all for your tips and interest.
Regards Terry

[Shannon]

Excuse my ignorance here guys and gals,

I am in the middle of finishing my first jewellery box and also have some ubeaut white shellac. Have been reading through the wood bible and also here to work out how best to apply the finish.

I note above that after application you need to wait 8 hrs before lightly sanding and re application.

In another post concerning hard shellac, it was stated that multiple coats (6) were applied before sanding and they were applied at about 20 min intervals.

My query is this - why can hard shellac be applied this way, when white shellac, needs so much more time before reapplying? I am trying to speed things up as I only have a few more days of free wood time, but if 8hrs is the go then so be it.

Also I will apply some EEE afterwards, but I am yet to buy a swansdown. Will elbow grease suffice??

Thanks

[schaf]

Hi shannon,good question,but will have to wait for one of the experts to answer for you.


To Wendy,thanks for the tip on Diggers brand metho. I applied the test that Neil described and it passed with flying colors.

Terry

[RufflyRustic]

Whew! - Glad to hear that Terry. :)


Shannon - I find the application time and wait depends on your mix of shellac to metho, and the weather. The thinner the mix i.e. more metho, the thinner the coat and the quicker to dry. The hotter it is, the quicker it will dry. But beware high humidity.

I find I can put about 2-3 coats on a piece in a day and lightly sand back. In summer, I can do about 5 coats in a day.

EEE - apply and rub well, change cloths and rub again - elbow grease is sufficient until you get a mop or a couple of them:)

I like to leave the project overnight and then finish with ...

Trad wax - apply using different cloths to the EEE, put on, wait a little while, rub well, change cloths to polish up to the shine/sheen you want

As always, am interested in any comments/corrections

Cheers
Wendy

[Shannon]

Thanks Ruffly,

Can always rely on your feedback - simple and concise, perfect for a simpleton like myself :)

The fam comes home tonight, so I am off to the workshop again - my nice tidy workshop after 2 days of cleaning and reshelving etc - to apply some more shellac. might chance 3 coats in a day instead of 1 morning and 1 night.

Thanks again,

[RufflyRustic]

Thanks Shannon :)

As always, pictures are appreciated :D

cheers
Wendy

[Pete J]

Bump.

I was hoping for some response to Shannon's post of 3 Oct.

I am in the middle of finishing a coffee table with hard shellac and am also curious as to how to apply it by brush without getting any slightly raised lines down the length of the top where one brush stroke slightly overlaps the one next to it. Even having cut the hard shellac by 15% the lines still appear - small yes, but they need to be sanded off. I am using a good quality artists mop for the shallac as Neil recommends.

Should I be able to do this without any lines?

Any help appreciated.

Regards

[ubeaut]

Sorry folks spending too much time working in the background and don't get much time to actually answer anything.

Peter - You can cut the shellac up to 50% it's a pretty strong brew. You can add a little N-Butynol (which you probably won't be able to find) and this will make the shellac flow much better and greatly reduce the witness lines from brushing the finish on.

Can't get N-Butaynol? Use a little mineral turpentine or white spirits and when I say a little I mean a little. Try mixing around 100ml white shellac with 1/2 teaspoon of the turps etc. Then try it on scrap timber to test for drying time. Could add a few minutes to an hour or so, depending on the thickness of the application.

Shannon - there is no need to wait 8 hrs between coats of White Shellac. You can re-coat as soon as the first coat is dry. Depending on how heavy handed you are with the application this could take from 10 minutes to 1 hour, less in hot weather. I did 5 coats in an hour on walnut a week or so ago. Left it overnight then sanded back with 800 grit and began polishing with a rubber. Worked the rubber over the entire surface for around 10 minutes (actually stopped cause the hand and arm were getting a bit sore as I haven't done much polishing in the last few years) left it for 15 min or so then repeated, did the same thing twice more and ended up with an almost full blown French polished surface that took somewhere in the vicinity of 2 hrs total work.

This I left for a week to allow the shellac fully harden and sink into the timber. I then used the rubber again about half a dozen more times at around 5 minute intervals. Absolutely brilliant, blemish free, mirror surface that looked polished not plastic. Total working time around 3 1/2 hrs over all.

Leaving it to fully harden again before putting the whole thing back together and delivering it. Oh yeah.... It's a Victorian walnut mirror that was burnt in a fire many years ago, had to re-carve most sections and mouldings re veneer, etc and polish. Might even take a pic if I remember.

Cheers - Neil :)

[Shannon]

Thankyou for the response Neil, it will definately help me in the future.

Also, if I decided on a more satin finish instead of the full polished route, how would I go about this?? On some previous work I have used a wattyl matt finish then given it a whack with some scandanavian oil, but if I can get the same effect using Ubeaut products I will do so - not sucking up here, I just appreciate the forum and this is one way I can show that.

Any help is appreciated.

[RufflyRustic]

Thanks Neil,

Just goes to show there is so much more for me to learn in regards to shellac - but it's a fun and interesting journey.

Cheers
Wendy

[Pete J]

Peter - You can cut the shellac up to 50% it's a pretty strong brew. You can add a little N-Butynol (which you probably won't be able to find) and this will make the shellac flow much better and greatly reduce the witness lines from brushing the finish on.

Can't get N-Butaynol? Use a little mineral turpentine or white spirits and when I say a little I mean a little. Try mixing around 100ml white shellac with 1/2 teaspoon of the turps etc. Then try it on scrap timber to test for drying time. Could add a few minutes to an hour or so, depending on the thickness of the application.


Dear Ub' - you don't mind this universal Australian abbreviation do you?

I will try your advice this evening. You neatly skirted around the question of whether I was just incompetent or whether one should be able to apply the hard shellac with a quality brush without the fine lines. Don't spare the feelings. Let me (and us) know!

Regards