What is Going ON ??

[Gumby]

This road toll stuff is out of control at the moment.

Just heard that there's a 2 car collision near Donald (country vic) and 5 dead !

[Gra]

What can we do, there was an accident last weekend with 6 people in a 300ZX, at best these cars were a 2+2 how the @#$% did they fit six people in that thing. You cant legislate against stupidity.

What I recomend is that the government do something to comemorate Brocky's death. That would be tale his advise and make advanced driving courses maditory. make them regular (Every time you renew your license). This will improve the quality of all drivers and maybe sort out some of the @#$% out there.

[Wongo]

It really worries me. We hear about the national road toll all the time but people just don’t get it. For goodness’ sake people, just slow down and drive sensibly.

The problem is if you do 80 in a 80K zone then people think that you are crazy. Still it is better to get them annoyed then killed.

[Buzzer]

Tragic to hear about the continuing road toll.

We are told about the deaths, but not the circumstances leading to the event. ie. weather drugs,alcohol, inexperience, weather/road conditions, driver error/stupidity were involved.

Just a few words in news headlines.

If it were a plane crash, it seems to make a major news story.

[Iain]

What bothers me most is that it is usually the innocent party that are killed, recent case in question with a Mother being killed while a 14 year old witness rescued the baby fromn the wreck.
It appeared she was hit head on by an out of control speeding motorist.
Sit on the speed limit and often you are tailgated, beeped at, headlights flshed, passed dangerously and then cut off to show their displeasure in your selfish attitude towards obeying the road laws.
I rarely knowingly exceed the limit and am appalled at the arrogance of young female P platers who want to 'show me how it's done'.
Usually in a little tin box versus my 2.25 tonne Landcruiser, not really a sensible move.

[craigb]

appalled at the arrogance of young female P platers who want to 'show me how it's done'.
Usually in a little tin box ....

You get that in Vic too huh?

What is that all about. How come they get so agressive as soon as they get their 'P's and a Ford Fiesta?

[Guy]

I moved to this country 18 years ago and was shocked( and still am) at how bad the driving here is, we have road laws here but it seem PC Plod isnt interested in enforcing those only every now and then when they have a blitz.
Take keep to the left unless overtaking, i travel approx 1500KM a week around town and country and regulary see strings of cars in the right hand lane and just me in the left hand with the centre lane free, whilst PC plod is at the side of road with his speed gun.
If he were to pu;; over all those cars he would get more in revenue that a single car every now and then.
Travelled to Horsham last week and didnt see a single copper on the road from Malvern to there and back, where are they?
Trucks over 4.5tonne should be banned from using the right hand lane on any road greater than 2 lanes as it the way done in Europe where they have plenty more trucks on the road than here.
Towing trailers, they should be forced to drive at a max of 80kmh on freeways and major highways.
Until Beurocrats get off there big fat bums and look at redoing road rules and legislation nothing will happen.

I live on Dandenong road right on the corner of a busy intersection and have witnessed so much death and stupidity. 9 killed in past 6 years of living there between the Rosstown Hotel and Waverley road intersection. These days i dont even bother to go out when there is a loud bang.
Myself and the other residents in the area have petitioned the police, state gov, local council for the installation of fixed speed/ red;light cameras to get the red light runners and speedsters to no avail, its like a bloody drag track on a fri, sat and sunday night.
Each group just says speak to them out hands are tied, the minister of ( stupidity,carnage) transport says there is no budget even though i worked it out it would take 3 month to pay for its self, where does the $426 Million raised in fines go other than general revenue.

Country and city roads are disgraceful, instead of placing traffic lights add more round abouts these slow traffic down and makes them travell more smoothly if they are used correctly.

Make it compulsary for all new drivers to learn on a manual and drive one for at least 4 years, and have an engine capacity of 2 litres or less and nothing souped up either.

Rant over

[Wood Butcher]

One thing that amazes me is peoples lack of knowledge in regards to particularly roundabouts. And it gets even worse when they make a 2 lane version.:eek:

I think that every few years it should be compulsory to sit a refresher theory exam at least. The road rules do change and there is nothing ensuring that peoples knowledge is kept up to date.

But, having said that, most of the accidents around here have involved younger people with insufficient knowledge thinking they know everything, driving like idiots!

[ozwinner]

I rarely knowingly exceed the limit and am appalled at the arrogance of young female P platers who want to 'show me how it's done'.
.

Same here, young females seem more aggresive then young blokes. :confused:

Maybe they think they have something to prove to us older drivers?

Al :confused:

[Stuart]

One thing that amazes me is peoples lack of knowledge in regards to particularly roundabouts. And it gets even worse when they make a 2 lane version.:eek:

Perhaps they should go to Swindon in England and learn roundabouts there....:D



To decypher what you are seeing - there are 5 roads, each with between 1 and 4 lanes all meeting at a colossal roundabout. (A total of about 14 lanes meeting!!) There are 5 mini roundabouts at each road entrance surrounding the central one. Cars navigate the small roundabouts in the normal direction, and go backwards around the centre one!!! :eek:

[keith53]

This road toll stuff is out of control at the moment.

Just heard that there's a 2 car collision near Donald (country vic) and 5 dead !

Ten news here just claimed up to 7. Absolute tragedy

[Bleedin Thumb]

Why is that all about. How come they get so agressive as soon as they get their 'P's and a Ford Fiesta?

Me too what the hell is with these young girls? I can uderstand boys = excess testostrone - no brains.
Anyhow it could be worse we could live in a lot of other countries.
Road fatalities in 2003
Australia 1,716
Indonesia 30,464
Malaysia 6,282
Philippines 9,000
Thailand 13,116
Thats one hell of a lot of misery.:(

[Groggy]

What kind of answer is there to this? We have maximum speed limits of 110 kph and cars that can do more than twice that, and get there with neck snapping accelleration.

Add some attrocious attitudes to those vehicles, a lack of controls coupled with weak penalties and fatalities are unavoidable.

[martrix]

China


Officially, the Chinese government says 300 people die every day in vehicle crashes on the country's roads and byways. But the World Health Organization says that the real number is 680 traffic deaths a day. That compares with about 115 per day in the United States, where there are about eight times as many vehicles as in China, according to figures from the Chinese government and R.L. Polk & Co.


Based on the WHO real numbers, that is 239,360 people dead in 1 year, just from Car accidents............

[Stuart]

Australia: 1,716, population 19,564,792, percent 0.009%
Indonesia: 30,464, population 231,328,092, percent 0.013%
Malaysia: 6,282, population 22,662,365, percent 0.028%
Philippines 9,000, population 84,525,639, percent 0.011%
Thailand 13,116, population 62,354,402, percent 0.021%

Of course, these stats change massively when you rebalance the population by the number of vehicles per capita.

For example, if you took the Phillipines where there are only 31 vehicles per 1000 people (cf Australia with 619 / 1000)

then it becomes 0.343% Phillipines cf 0.014% Australia.

So yeah, Australia isn't bad compared to those Asian countries listed.


To factor China in
China 248,200, population 1,284,303,705, percent 0.019%

If you take into account the number of vehicles in China (10 per 1000), it becomes 1.933%

[ozwinner]

Perhaps they should go to Swindon in England and learn roundabouts there....:D



To decypher what you are seeing - there are 5 roads, each with between 1 and 4 lanes all meeting at a colossal roundabout. (A total of about 14 lanes meeting!!) There are 5 mini roundabouts at each road entrance surrounding the central one. Cars navigate the small roundabouts in the normal direction, and go backwards around the centre one!!! :eek:

That is a classic, obviously deigned by someone who takes the bus all the time.

Al :D

[Guy]

Perhaps they should go to Swindon in England and learn roundabouts there....:D



To decypher what you are seeing - there are 5 roads, each with between 1 and 4 lanes all meeting at a colossal roundabout. (A total of about 14 lanes meeting!!) There are 5 mini roundabouts at each road entrance surrounding the central one. Cars navigate the small roundabouts in the normal direction, and go backwards around the centre one!!! :eek:

Lived in Bracknell for a number of years and there was only one set of traffic lights in the town, they were outside the police, ambulance fire complex. everything else was roundabouts. Couls always tell the out of towners, they usually had another car in the back of them. Everyone just glanced to the right and sliped into the traffic.
Mind you that one in Swindon is just as bad as the ones in Colchester.

[Ianab]

Make it compulsary for all new drivers to learn on a manual and drive one for at least 4 years, and have an engine capacity of 2 litres or less and nothing souped up either.

All that does is make cars like my 1600cc Corolla seem very desirable to the boy racers. It's stock standard , non turbo station wagon, but rated at 120kw and probably capable of 200kmph. I haven't found a road safe enough to wind it out. But you rule out my G/F who has a learners licence and drives a 3L Toyota Surf Auto. It's a prefectly safe vehicle for her to drive, and probably about the same Kw rating as my Corolla :rolleyes:

No simple answer, but I agee, young people in cars that can do 200kph is not a good thing.:o

Ian

[Zed]

people will always die in cars until they are fully automated. I beleive this is true! otherwise its just blah blah blah...... we are humans - therefore stupid and arrogant = this includes bad driving.....

What I find most amusing is the homeboy dikcheads who have fast cars and dont do the brakes and suspension along with the engine. better temporary australians than motorcyclists!!!!

[E. maculata]

Cwap, I mostly agree with Zed:eek: , cause we just know that We are better drivers than that dipstik next to us:rolleyes: , not much behind Brocky really y'know;) .
Like Zed sed we're human (well some of us are anyway) so we each believe it's not us, well it is even Zed, even I.

BTW Zed riding motorcycles.....fast... for 36 years, guess what?..... so far a permanent, but this could be temporary:confused: .

[Bleedin Thumb]

Of course, these stats change massively when you rebalance the population by the number of vehicles per capita.

For example, if you took the Phillipines where there are only 31 vehicles per 1000 people (cf Australia with 619 / 1000)

then it becomes 0.343% Phillipines cf 0.014% Australia.

So yeah, Australia isn't bad compared to those Asian countries listed.



Thanks Stuart for crunching those stats, you have way too much time on your hands or way too much info in your head.;)

I think your statement re stats changing after factoring population vs number of cars is the crucial point if you re-multiply the percentages back for say Phillipines to the Australian population you would have 67,107 fatalities per year as opposed to 1,716. I'd hate to think what Indonesia is. But having travelled a bit in the region I can believe it. SCARY:(

The only other country to scare me so much was Turkey where every bus driver seems resigned that this trip is to be their last:eek:

[DavidG]

You can not legislate against fools.
Case yesterday.

A 4wd approaching a traffic light before a roundabout, swang from the right lane to the left, went through the red light and made a right hand turn at the roundabout from the left lane against signs sayin "NO right turn from left lane".

What hope have we.......:eek:

[Stuart]

Multiply it in for the Chinese stats, and we'd have something like 500,000 casualties a year!

Obviously stats are taken with a grain of salt, but even with a massive fudge factor- if a country like Australia with quality roads, reasonable quality cars, etc etc etc still has as many accidents as it does, it is no wonder that countries without our advantages are deadly on the roads.

None of this is to say that we shouldn't be able to do a lot better.

If only the idiots could remove themselves from the gene pool, without taking innocents along with them.

[Wongo]

Roundabouts are fascinating

4 good drivers approach the roundabout from 4 directions. 4 cars enter and exit the roundabout at the same time. SWEET.:cool:

4 idiots approach the roundabout from 4 directions. All stop and give way to the others. DEADLOCK. :eek:

[Iain]

A bit like merging lanes, one galah stops and causes absolute chaos.
Having said that I 'once' travelled around Sydney on the bypass to Newcastle, very poor signage, saw a turnoff less than 100 metres away and no mongrel would let me cross to get off, and I had yellow plates too.
Just out of Traralgon I recall when the new bypass opened, wanted to travel to Melbourne and saw the signs indicating a left turn off the freeway, when you got closer you realised that you had to be in one of the two right lanes to effect a left turn via an overpass, that was character building too.

[Doughboy]

I am constantly amazed at how people decide that when it is wet they need to increase their speed by at least 10 km/h. I call it the shuemacher effect, the mindset that they need to get out of the traffic as quick as possible to avoid accidents. Interesting the way people look at round abouts and see an opportunity to overtake another vehicle just to make up one or possibly two car spots.

And motorbikes..... I am a rider and have been for 30 of my 36 years, on the road for 19, I am still amazed by the fact that there are so many temporary Australians out there. They go down between the traffic lanes at lights and generally use the road as their own personal race track, winding in and out of lanes to get to work that bit quicker. Do they realise that the average car driver does not look for motorbikes?

Add to that the fact Canberra uses hotmix bitumen that makes the roads super slippery in the wet I am amazed there are not more accidents on our roads.

Slow the hell down and enjoy the journey!!!!!!!

Pete

[Wood Butcher]

Interesting comments on Motorbikes Pete.

I have a scooter which is my town commuter and I am also a member of a couple of scooter clubs. You will find that most scooter riders are a hell of a lot more considerate that motorbike riders cause we know who will end up the worst off in a crash:(

[bennylaird]

I had a scooter and was too scared to ride it in traffic, thing could only mangage about 80kph. Mean't I hade to ride in the traffic rather than have enough power to get into a clear lane. Cars would never pass by changing lanes fully they would just ease by like they do with pushies.

[silentC]

I nearly ran one of those off the road once on Forest Road. It's one of those two lane roads where they allow people to turn right into local streets. You get used to tearing up the middle lane until just before you get to one of the right turns, then you charge across to the outside lane to go around the people turning right. I did that but this guy on a little step through had come up beside me in the left lane. I couldn't see him because he was on my blind side, sitting just off my left rear bumper. I came across as I always did only to hear this pathetic beeping sound. I looked in my mirror and there was this irrate individual on his little scooter. Oh well, probably just some uni student :rolleyes: ;)

[Bleedin Thumb]

I still remember the days when Qld had the give way to the right rule. You could be driving along the Bruce highway and some cockie would pull out infront of you from some dirt track leaving you with both feet on the brake pedal and a look of terror on your face.:eek:

[Gumby]

Yeah, that was crazy stuff. So was having different rules in different states for giving way to people turning right if you were turning left into the same street.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Late last Sunday night, just after pub closing hours, we had a yobbo take a LH bend too fast and end up parking his car in our neighbours bedroom, after taking out another neighbours front and dividing fences. :eek: We live on a highway (3 lanes each way & a service rd each side) so he was doing a fair old whack. Sad to say, this is something we're "used to" as it happens about once every two years; although AFAIK this is the first case where the car has made it into a house... they normally just end up upside down in the opposite lane. :rolleyes:

But this bloke went through the centre island, taking out most of the trees & shrubs, a couple of sign posts (one being a speed sign! :eek: ) and left all this debris, along with his propshaft, half a wheel and mega glass and plastic oddments, strewn across the oncoming lanes.

Although 'twas a quiet time of night (fortunately for him) a couple of oncoming vehicles saw the accident and pulled over, with hazard lights, etc. And of course, there were all the rubber-necking locals from neighbouring houses. Around a dozen of us. :o It was obvious to anybody with eyes that there'd been a serious bingle. Most later traffic slowed down as it passed, I assume to rubber-neck, but 'twas a good thing just the same; with all that debris left on the road they had to "weave" their way through the lanes for about 200 yards.

Most slowed down: there were, of couirse, one or two who didn't bother. They came flying by at well over the speed limit, :mad: horns blaring at the slower vehicles... only to get massive "KERCHUNK KERCHUNK BANG CLANK!" under their cars as they found the debris. Monday morning, when we went to clean up the odds'n'sods the clean-up crew missed in the dark, we found several bits of trim and plastic that obviously didn't belong to the first idiot...

...if any of these pieces belong to YOUR car I HOPE IT COSTS YOU A FORTUNE TO REPAIR, YOU STUPID BARSTEWARD! :mad::p

[kiwigeo]

Me too what the hell is with these young girls? I can uderstand boys = excess testostrone - no brains.
Anyhow it could be worse we could live in a lot of other countries.
Road fatalities in 2003
Australia 1,716
Indonesia 30,464
Malaysia 6,282
Philippines 9,000
Thailand 13,116
Thats one hell of a lot of misery.:(

Figures more meaningful as a percentage of population.

[kiwigeo]

The problems IMO:

1. Young people think they're indestructible.
2. People quick to claim their right to drive but not so quick to accept that most rights come with responsibilities.
3. Driver inexperience....put a 16 year old into a Skyline kitted out for breaking the sound barrier and what do you expect?
4. Penalties for driving stupidly are pathetic.
5. Not enough police on the roads (or anywhere for that matter). Pay the cops more.
6. General lack of respect for fellow human beings...applies to young and old these days.

[Stuart]

Figures more meaningful as a percentage of population.That's why I added the percentage of population, and also factored in vehicles per capita.

So why criticise something that has been taken care of 3 posts later :confused::confused::confused::confused:

[Andy Mac]

There is all that about young people and speed, no sense of their own mortality, but in my mind there are other issues too.
Seat belts do save lives, no doubt about it, but they also add to a feeling of invincibilty. Strap in and hold on. Way back in the mid-70's a revolution hit surfing: the leg rope. It allowed surfers to pull off stunts that weren't recommended before, because of the consequences (if you fell off, you lost your board and it was a long swim!) Similar with seatbelts, IMHO.
The other one is simply speed. No car should be produced or allowed here that is capable of doing twice the legal speed limit. End of story. The roads here are atrocious compared to Europe, too much total road distance compared to funding and the quality suffers. I may seem like an old fuddy duddy, and truth is I used to be a bit of bevan...but enough carnage already. I've got 2 young daughters and I'm not looking forward to the day they step out with their chosen one in a souped up car off to a party!!:eek:

Cheers,

[Auld Bassoon]

The problem is if you do 80 in a 80K zone then people think that you are crazy.

I disagree that speed, in and of itself, is inherently dangerous (not regular road speeds, anyway), but rather that the woeful skill levels and lack of experience so often demonstrated that is the real problem.

I'm in favour of (sensible) speed limits as it would be impossible or at least impractical to legislate and police at the individual or even group level. However, it would be entirely practical to limit vehicles used by 'L' and 'P' platers to a specified limit, and that this principle of gradation could be applied to classes of licence of, say, "regular", "experienced" and "advanced" testing were established. Modern electronics and a smart-card licence could then easily set the vehicle's speed and, where fitted, electronic control limits.

There is also the vehicle factor. A Ferrari or a Porsche driven by an idiot is just as likely to "have issues" (probably more so) as a clapped-out 120Y is when driven by a drunk. Also, more advanced licence testing should be done in a vehicle with all the ESP/C, ABS and whatnot turned off.

[Auld Bassoon]

You get that in Vic too huh?

What is that all about. How come they get so agressive as soon as they get their 'P's and a Ford Fiesta?

Iain & Craig,

I'm releived to see that it's not only me who seems to see young females being so stunningly aggressive in their Fiestas, Barinas etc.

Going to work this morning I followed a flossy who crossed three lanes of traffic FOUR times, zig-zagging across dense traffic with barely a flick (if any!) of the indicator and NEVER a look across or behind - to gain perhaps three car lengths. What that mutt was trying to prove, and to whom, remains a mystery.

[DanP]

I picked a good time to start in the Traffic Management Unit....

Sat. three weeks ago, bloke doesn't give way to a truck. One dead, one to hospital with serious injuries. He decided to wait till after I got there to die though..

Sat. two weeks ago, bloke drives home after being at Footy Club, then Pub then a mates place. Forgot that when the road bends, you need to turn. No seatbelt, was ejected and the car finished on top of him.

Thursday following that, two blokes in seperate cars going to the other blokes funeral, one doesn't give way to the other and t bone at 100km/h.

All preventable accidents. The police division that I work in has the highest toll in the state (maybe not after the 7 in Donald). I have personally been to about half the crashes in my area and all of them are preventable. All appear to have been caused by stupidity/inattention/pi55 poor attitude.


I moved to this country 18 years ago and was shocked( and still am) at how bad the driving here is, we have road laws here but it seem PC Plod isnt interested in enforcing those only every now and then when they have a blitz.
Take keep to the left unless overtaking, i travel approx 1500KM a week around town and country and regulary see strings of cars in the right hand lane and just me in the left hand with the centre lane free, whilst PC plod is at the side of road with his speed gun.


Mate, when was the last time you heard of a fatal accident because someone was sitting in the right hand lane. Contrary to popular belief, the job of the TMU is to reduce the road toll, not get lots of tickets. Speed is a major factor in many fatal and casualty crashes in the country. Not much point getting 50 tickets a day for inconvenience type traffic offences and ignoring the offences that cause the big accidents. I know I'd rather get 5 tickets a day for offences that kill people.

Dan

[Sturdee]

That's why I added the percentage of population, and also factored in vehicles per capita.

So why criticise something that has been taken care of 3 posts later :confused::confused::confused::confused:


Either they read but don't understand or they skip half the posts.:(


Peter.

[AlexS]

Dan, I don't know how you do your job, pretty sure I couldn't.

Interesting that in NSW (& Vic too, I think) the annual road toll is a bit more than half what it was 30 years ago, despite many more cars & drivers, and greater average mileage. Due, no doubt, to seat belts, RBT & improved cars & roads.

I'm not sure that attitude on the roads today is any worse than it ever was. I can remember road rage when I was a kid, especially when a row of cars was caught behind a slow car on a single lane road. Lots of dangerous overtaking, cutting off, fist waving etc. then. There weren't as many women driving then as there are now, so maybe they're more noticeable now.

[Daddles]

A copper at a road safety discussion at the MG car club one night commented that after reading thousands of accident reports over the years, he'd become convinced that the most dangerous speed was the speed limit ... because that's what everone 'claimed' they were doing :rolleyes: Of course, he then went on to talk about how they measured actual speeds at accidents sites and compared their results with the claims - funny how often the two didn't match :rolleyes:

As a side note, that poor cop wore a lot of teasing that night ... from all the other cops in the audience. At that time, it seemed that half the MG car club were either cops or married to cops. It wasn't unusual to turn up to a club function and find a police car in the car park.

Richard

[Stuart]

I have an opinion about speed, and I'm probably in the minority like always, but I feel that speed is focussed on way too much, vs poor driving techniques, and my pet hate: tailgating.

Speed itself is only a small(ish) part of the problem - the inability to handle the speed of the vehicle, and the vehicle's condition is as much the problem (and I'm not necessarily talking about speeds above the speed limit here- just speeds beyond what is sensible for the conditions).

Speeders make me think "you idiot", Tailgaters on the other hand really boil my blood.

[DanP]

Interesting that in NSW (& Vic too, I think) the annual road toll is a bit more than half what it was 30 years ago, despite many more cars & drivers, and greater average mileage. Due, no doubt, to seat belts, RBT & improved cars & roads.



In 1970, compulsory wearing of seatbelts was introduced. The Road toll was 1061. In 1971 the road toll was 140 less. Coincidence?

In 1976, the road toll was 938 when random breath testing was introduced respectively. Over the next four years, the road toll dropped by nearly 300. Coincidence?

In 1989 the road toll was 777 ( a bad year). Speed camera's were introduced and in 1990, the road toll was a staggering 229 less than 1989 and has steadily decreased ever since. Coincidence?

Speeding is a causal factor in 26% of fatal crashes in Victoria.

The road toll is less than a third what it was thirty years ago.

Dan

[Bleedin Thumb]

Stuart and Dan at a quick glance you seem to be having opposing views but I beleive your both right.
MPO is that I find it more distracting (and hence dangerous) to be constantly watching the speedo to keep my speed under the posted limit than to concentrate on driving at a sensible speed suitable for my car and the prevailing conditions ( road, time of day, weather etc).
Most of the time this speed coincides with the limit, sometimes faster sometimes slower. If I excede the limitations of my own ability and that of my car and the conditions then I am likely to come undone and I am usually smart enough not to do this.
So Dan youre right about speeding but so is Stuart as its not necessarily exceeding the LEGAL speed limit that is the problem

[Stuart]

I'm not against Dan's point-of-view, and speed etc. I just get completely ####ed off with the ####wits who tailgate me when I am doing the speedlimit. Sitting on my tail puts me at risk. I don't give a #### if he (although more and more times it is a he in a truck, or a she in a car) writes himself off due to high speed, but when he endangers others with bad driving......

I have no doubt speed kills. I have no doubt that the rate of injury and death of 3rd parties decreased at the same time as a focus on speed control was put into place. I just wish that other aspects of dangerous driving were also focussed on.

This state (Vic) not doing compulsory annual roadworthies I think is unacceptable (I came from a country (NZ) where you have to do one every 6 months for vehicles over 3 years old, and 12 months for newer)

Why can we have cameras that instead of pointing down the road, point across it, and catch anyone travelling way too close to the proceeding vehicle?!!

[Guy]

Mate, when was the last time you heard of a fatal accident because someone was sitting in the right hand lane. Contrary to popular belief, the job of the TMU is to reduce the road toll, not get lots of tickets. Speed is a major factor in many fatal and casualty crashes in the country. Not much point getting 50 tickets a day for inconvenience type traffic offences and ignoring the offences that cause the big accidents. I know I'd rather get 5 tickets a day for offences that kill people.

Dan[/QUOTE]

Dan
Regardles of your personal feelings the law is the law and you and others police are paid to enforce them, so why are they not being enforced. All the road rules are there to save people on the road.
When it comes to hearing about the carnage on the raod all we here is "speed was a factor" but not the actual estimated speed, the condition of the vechile whether it was in a raod worthy manner or whether the road surface was pot holed.

My cousin came over a few years ago and he is a Snr Serg in the Thames Valley police patroling the motorways and highways. He came over on a secondment for 6 months and commented to many time as to why dont the cops do this here.
He did comment that here the police (govt) were infatuated with speed but dont look at the whole traffic law enforcement. They had the unwritten rule whilst patrolling that they would not pull a speedster over if the roads were clear and he was driving safely and in the correct lane. So you could drive at 90mph in a 70mph area safely and they would forget about you, change lanes iratically or your car looked unsafe they would pull you over.

[silentC]

Speed itself is only a small(ish) part of the problem
I think the whole point about this is that when you reduce speed, the other factors that are the actual cause of accidents are diminished. Your average driver has no idea how to react in an emergency. If you slow everything down, two things happen: they get more time to react; and the damage is lessened because the speed of impact (if there is going to be one) is reduced.

It's not addressing the fact that most people on the road think they are the best drivers in the world when, in fact, they are not but it is very hard to do anything about that. Speed can be controlled by imposing penalties. You are always going to have idiots.

[DanP]

Regardles of your personal feelings the law is the law and you and others police are paid to enforce them, so why are they not being enforced. All the road rules are there to save people on the road.
All I can say to this is how the hell would you have the first clue as to what is being enforced and what is not. I personally act on any breach of legislation that I see and so do most coppers. But what I'm saying is, why would I concentrate on people sitting in the right lane when there are much greater issues causing death on the roads, rather than inconvenience to you.



When it comes to hearing about the carnage on the raod all we here is "speed was a factor" but not the actual estimated speed, the condition of the vechile whether it was in a raod worthy manner or whether the road surface was pot holed.

Doesn't that in itself tell you the answer - Speed is a major causal factor in a large percentage of crashes. That's probably why you hear it all the time...


My cousin came over a few years ago and he is a Snr Serg in the Thames Valley police patroling the motorways and highways. He came over on a secondment for 6 months and commented to many time as to why dont the cops do this here.

I agree that the Govt are infatuated with speed and half a billion $+ a year in camera revenue will keep it that way.


He did comment that here the police (govt) were infatuated with speed but dont look at the whole traffic law enforcement. They had the unwritten rule whilst patrolling that they would not pull a speedster over if the roads were clear and he was driving safely and in the correct lane. So you could drive at 90mph in a 70mph area safely and they would forget about you, change lanes iratically or your car looked unsafe they would pull you over.

That's a really good attitude to have. You can drive like a maniac as long as you don't sit in the right lane while you do it. I'm glad were not like that here.

You're hanging shyte that the police don't pull over people for driving in the right lane but you quote your cousin saying you should let people go for doing 30km/h over the speed limit. That is hypocrisy at its finest.

Dan

[Phil Spencer]

Over the last 20 years I have spent about 6 hours on the road every day and over that time I have noticed a steady deterioration in standards on the roads. I have lost count of:

The times I have been using the freeway at the legal limit and had a Kenworth come up that close behind that I can count the bugs squashed on the grill.
Young ladies in their little cars either eating breakfast from a bowl or putting makeup on whilst driving (multi-skilling)
Young male (and female) hoons doing stupid things
Tradesmen in their vans in a hurry to their next job exceeding the speed limit and tailgating.What really scares me is:

B doubles doing 100KPH on the free way
Small vans that are overloaded and unstable in a dubious state of road worthiness. I saw one go around a roundabout so fast that his right rear wheels lifted off the road
Young mothers in their tractors picking the kids up from school
Young kids still on their P plates ducking and weaving in heavy traffic.I can vividly remember being a passenger in a colleges car on a busy freeway when he took a phone call not hands free starts to steer with his knees and with the phone wedged in his ear started to make notes in his diary all at 100KPH. I asked to be let out and I caught a Taxi back to the office, this same person had also been observed with the phone in his ear and using his lap top computer at the same time whilst doing 100KPH on the same freeway.

I am no angle on the road but I don't take risks the only time that I have been booked was for slow speeding I was doing 53KPH and I have the dubious honor of writing a car off in front of a speed camera.

I am starting to think that there are several reasons for the problems on the road:

Poverty of time, trying to do too much in the time available
Poor teaching of learner drivers
The road safety gene switches off when people get behind the wheel, they don't realize that they are in control of a complex piece of machinery that can have a minor component fail at any time having tragic consequences.
Lack of regard for our fellow human beings.Phil

[Gumby]

I'll tell you what gets me fired up. It's the fact that legislation and general government meddling makes us responsible for just about everything. Take the example of paediatricians. They have to remain insured for life, even years after retirement just in case somebody wants to sue them. The result is that we are loosing them fast - who'd take it on.

In a society where you can sue McDonalds and get 20 grand for having a hot coffee spilled in your lap, where is the accouintability of government?

No to the point of this. Have you seen that intersection where the 7 died? That anybody could design it like that in the first place is a joke. The locals have been complaining for years and no action was taken because there weren't any accidents. But those who drove on it knew what could happen.
Now bracks is going to look into setting up a committee to consider appointing a consultant to advise on changs. :mad:

fair dinkum, why can't we just go back and sue the people who designed it in the first place. Why don't they have to account for themselves like the rest of us? I'm not in favour of all this legal liability stuff - we all pay the price through high premiums. But the rules have to be applied to everybody, not just those in the private sector.

[Wongo]

Everyone can driver fast even the wankers.:rolleyes: Driving under the speed limit (but too slow) is much harder. It takes a lot of skills.

Tailgating should be a criminal offence. Bring on the death penalty.:eek:

[DanP]

Have you seen that intersection where the 7 died? That anybody could design it like that in the first place is a joke.

We have about 6 intersections just like it...:eek:

[Tex79]

Unfortunately you could be the best driver in the world but it doesn't stop some other moron from killing you.

Have you ever noticed that most drivers when approaching an intersection will be looking left, they only look right as they are litterally at the intersection and most are maintaining a high speed so they can pull out into the traffic quickley. This behaviour absolutely amazes me every time, as I'm pretty keen to be checking out whats coming from the right first as thats where the biggest threat is coming from.

I think the government has a lot to answer for when it comes to getting tough on drivers who continue to commit driving offences, they seem to slap they offenders on the back of the hand and send them on their way. What about actually following through on theur threat of confiscating their cars? repeat offenders should have their cars scrapped or sold at auction on top of extremely long term or permanent loss of license.
Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now.

[Gumby]

Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now.

Don't do that, the rest of us are still on it :D

[Stuart]

I think the whole point about this is that when you reduce speed, the other factors that are the actual cause of accidents are diminished. Your average driver has no idea how to react in an emergency. If you slow everything down, two things happen: they get more time to react; and the damage is lessened because the speed of impact (if there is going to be one) is reduced.Very good point - that makes a whole heap of sense to me. Focussing on speed to control other driving issues is a very interesting viewpoint.

I really like having my opinion modified by a rational arguement (no- I really do - it means someone has taken the time to understand my point-of-view, and constructed a reasoned, valid response) :)

[lesmeyer]

All this talk brings me to the only conclusion I can make about the speeding situation. Despite all the speed traps etc, the authorities have FAILED in reducing deaths AND other serious injuries on the roads. They are quick to point out that the # of deaths have declined in real numbers, but they never quote serious injuries which 20 years ago would have been deaths were it not for some modern technology in the cars that helps to not kill us. When the youngsters hoon around, only a small fraction are caught because the authorities are too busy catching the sitting ducks with cameras and laser guns speeding at a dangerous 7km/hr over the limit.:rolleyes:. They actually think they have hoodwinked the population that they are interested in our safety. What a joke.
Les

[DanP]

Stuart,

All of your comments in this thread are valid and sensible. I felt no need to comment on them. Silent is spot on.

Lower speed = increased reaction time, less trauma and more importantly, less chance of losing control of the car. A lot of crashes are aggravated by drivers reacting incorrectly when they lose traction, which happens in nearly all crashes. If people had the correct reaction to vehicle instability, you would see less trauma from crashes as well.

Dan

[Stuart]

7km/hr? Try Victoria where the politicians want you booked if you are 3km/hr over the limit :mad: (Is that correct Dan?)

My brand new car's speedo is more inaccurate than that - why I still can't figure out- it reads 7% faster than you are actually travelling - some bloody Mazda "we know better than you" crap.

I want a car that tells me what it is doing wrong, not what I am (unless I give it permission). The Mazda even tells me if my seatbelt is not on - (how did I miss that), or my passenger - even when my 'passenger' is some bones from the butcher for the dog. Basically trying to control my behaviour. The most I want a car to do about my behaviour is tell me if I've left the lights on, and only because it will flatten the battery, not because it thinks I'm doing the wrong thing. The rest of the time, I just want it to monitor itself.

My Commodore has some of the same features, but at least I can choose if, and when they activate.

[DanP]

All this talk brings me to the only conclusion I can make about the speeding situation. Despite all the speed traps etc, the authorities have FAILED in reducing deaths AND other serious injuries on the roads. They are quick to point out that the # of deaths have declined in real numbers, but they never quote serious injuries which 20 years ago would have been deaths were it not for some modern technology in the cars that helps to not kill us. When the youngsters hoon around, only a small fraction are caught because the authorities are too busy catching the sitting ducks with cameras and laser guns speeding at a dangerous 7km/hr over the limit.:rolleyes:. They actually think they have hoodwinked the population that they are interested in our safety. What a joke.
Les

Mate, you're kidding yourself if you think modern safety features on cars are the cause of the reduced toll.

I am yet to meet a policeman who will book someone for 7 kmh over and most won't even look at cars under 10kmh over. Those sitting ducks wouldn't be sitting ducks if they weren't involved in criminal behaviour.

The only thing I would agree with is that the Govt are interested in your safety. Spot on. What they are interested in is the millions of dollars each death costs and the hundreds of thousands each serious injury crash costs.

Out of each shift I would spend less than 1/2 an hour with a radar in my hand. The two other blokes I work with are the same. The moving mode gets used in transit between towns.

The hoon element are by far the most heavily policed portion of road users. Anything we can get on them is booked. They would make up 70% of my work. Don't go on your perception of what we do because you really have no idea.

Dan

[DanP]

3km/hr over the limit :mad: (Is that correct Dan?)



No.





It's 4km/h. :rolleyes: They give you the three. Generous aren't they.

Car manufacturers are allowed up to 10% +/- on the speedo. Lots of people get camera fines knowing the camera was there and believing they were on the limit.:mad:

Dan

[silentC]

some bloody Mazda "we know better than you" crap
:D We hired a car in NZ a few years ago, some Japanese import thing, can't remember what it was. It had these chimes installed in it that jingled when you went faster than 100kph. Bloody annoying when you're driving on the motorway. Had to turn the radio up!

[lesmeyer]

..........
The hoon element are by far the most heavily policed portion of road users. Anything we can get on them is booked. They would make up 70% of my work. Don't go on your perception of what we do because you really have no idea.

Dan
Good on you for getting the hoons where you live. They have been reported to the police in our area, and not a single hoon has been caught in our area yet. They are all Uni students and have eyes that can see when the police are araound. I wonder why the police do not do something innovative to catch them in the act? Once again - they are busy revenue raising elsewhere. The police actually think they are stupid. Well - guess what.
By the way, I generally do NOT speed and am a very safe driver. What the hoons are doing is way past the speed thing. It is downright reckless and outrageous - AND they get away with it. We have had numerous fatal accidents in Perth where this sort of behaviour is to blame, and the all the police point out, is the speed. They need to look at the total picture. Personally I do not believe that kids should be getting a drivers licence (albeit a P plate) at the age of 17. They cannot think straight at that age. They have hormone problems at that age. You cannot drive under such circumstances. Driver training also leaves a lt to be desired. It is way below standard at the driving schools - in Perth anyway.
Les

[Bleedin Thumb]

Tailgating should be a criminal offence. Bring on the death penalty.:eek:


Death penalty....too good for those miscreants. they should have their cars confiscated and their eyeballs removed with red hot pokers!:eek:

[Stuart]

So the fact that I got my full licence (motorcycle and car) at 15 then must give you the cold willies.

Think we were more mature back then......in NZ
Can't say the same from what I see of the modern Australian kid (even those here at the Uni).

Tried to do an online insurance assessment recently. It asked for my DOB and how long I've had my licence. Stupid site rejected my info as "not being possible". :rolleyes:

[silentC]

I dunno, maybe kids aren't as mature these days as we were. I drove my first tractor at 6. My son is 12 months off that and I can't imagine him being able to do it. Could be something in the diet maybe? But then he can whip my @rse on the playstation, so figure that one out... :confused:

[Wongo]

Stupid site rejected my info as "not being possible". :rolleyes:

That’s because you entered New Zealand as your country of origin.:D :p


:D :D :D

[AlexS]

When the youngsters hoon around, only a small fraction are caught because the authorities are too busy catching the sitting ducks with cameras and laser guns speeding at a dangerous 7km/hr over the limit

Don't know about that Les, in NSW at any rate. I travel fairly regularly on the F3 north of Sydney, and notice that the people driving at dangerous speeds (not just a couple of km/h over the limit) and lane surfing are not just 'young hoons'. 'Geriatrics' (I guess I fall into that class) are just as well represented.

[kiwigeo]

That's why I added the percentage of population, and also factored in vehicles per capita.

So why criticise something that has been taken care of 3 posts later :confused::confused::confused::confused:

Youre right..so you did. On a slow link out here in the Timor Sea...scrolling back through the forum takes ages.

[kiwigeo]

Either they read but don't understand or they skip half the posts.:(


Peter.

Guilty as charged me Lud......see earlier post :o

[ozwinner]

That anybody could design it like that in the first place is a joke. .

You havent driven around Vic too much then I take it?

In the western part of Vic there are literally 1000's of intersections persactly the same as the one where these ppl died.

When you approach them, you have have your wits about you.

Al :eek:

[durwood]

A few weeks ago on foreign correspondant (channel 2) they showed the chinese having driving lessons for a licence.

They had to spend hours driving backwards and forward in first and reverse gear through witchs' hats and if they could do that they got their licence.

Just imagine a flock of them getting out on the road together and then getting up to speed, no wonder the death rate is so high there.

[Clinton1]

The big problem with the police and bad/idiot drivers is that there aren't not enough police putting in enough hours on traffic duties.

This isn't a criticism of police, its a criticism of US for not chestpoking our tossers (I mean pollies) to get more cops.

Example:
One of my (many) current pet hates in driving is people driving with their driving lights on...... they are bloody FOG lights you idiots :mad: .
The glare peeves me off and 1/2 the tossers have too high rated bulbs and have them focused up as per normal low beams, dazzling me at night.
The coppers don't pull these idiots over.... cause there aren't enought cops and they have to prioritise on the important stuff.


BTW, 12 years of driving and I've never lost a point off my licence.... we had a traffic accident copper come along with a photo album to where I did my drivers course. Enough photo's of the dead bodies in, and tangled up with, vehicles and I decided to take a bit of care.

Maybe a little reality needs to be injected into young people's heads... so they don't end up mangling themselves so guys like DanP have to clean up their mess.

[Iain]

One thing I have noticed (DanP may confirm this for me) is that I have been followed by TMU on a number of occassions whilst towing a horse float, well within the speed limit and not doing anything silly.
I am under the impression that my large outfit provides a cover for the marked car that is sitting behind me to 'nab' errant motorists travelling the opposite direction.

[Auld Bassoon]

A few weeks ago on foreign correspondant (channel 2) they showed the chinese having driving lessons for a licence.

They had to spend hours driving backwards and forward in first and reverse gear through witchs' hats and if they could do that they got their licence.

Just imagine a flock of them getting out on the road together and then getting up to speed, no wonder the death rate is so high there.

There was something similar televised about a year or so ago on South Korea. There learners are ONLY allowed to drive/practice within a specified compound. If they don't knock down too many cones, and can slot into clearly defined bays they get their licence - and can then go out on public roads (for the very first time!) - and wreak mayhem!

Hell of a system :mad:

[ozwinner]

I am under the impression that my large outfit provides a cover for the marked car that is sitting behind me to 'nab' errant motorists travelling the opposite direction.


Are you asking if your bum looks big in this?

Al :rolleyes: :eek: :D :p :p :p :p :p :p

[DanP]

I am under the impression that my large outfit provides a cover for the marked car that is sitting behind me to 'nab' errant motorists travelling the opposite direction.


:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

[Bleedin Thumb]

, no wonder the death rate is so high there.

Its to supplement the organ (donor!)transplants when there isnt enough political prisoners.:eek: