RSI, please don’t give me that crap

[Wongo]

A couple of workmates have been on sick leave for a while now. Both claimed to have suffered from RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury) or OOS (Occupational Overuse Syndrome). One female joined us 3 years ago and had been on and off work ever since. The company is paying all her medical bills.

I mean if you can’t use a computer or a mouse then tough luck. Yes the company is partly responsible but surely it can’t be entirely their fault. Let’s face it, if you are physically incapable of using a mouse then maybe you should not work at all.

Secondly, why is everyone one ordering one of those special keyboards, mouses and mouse pads. They cost the company a fortune.

The world is going mad again.

I know it is not my money but..

[zelk]

Sadly, there is a lot of opportunists around.
Zelk

[dazzler]

Hi Wongo

Are you saying they are lying about the injuries:confused: or were genetically predisposed to the injury.:confused:

Did your company have the 'special keyboards' for these employees before they were injured:confused: or now as a preventative measure to stop others from becoming injured.:)

Did the company OH and S representatives review the workstations to ensure they were occupationally correct for each individual:confused:

RSI / OOS are documented injuries and are no less 'real' than broken limbs and mental stress.

Seems a strange barrow to push mate:confused:

[MurrayD99]

There can be a problem and it results from static muscular tension. It has nothing to do with repetition and SFA to do with posture and furniture and mice and keyboards. If you take a few seconds to change position and do a bit of a wriggle every so often the problem is mucho reduced. There is software that monitors use and prompts for breaks and has tough settings to get people working again. Costs next to nothing. People using CAD applications etc and almost never moving are more likely to develop symptoms than other computer users. People who don't use computers much won't get RSI from computer use. Unfortunately an industry has been created....

[silentC]

It's a very serious disease. Some people suffer badly from it in the wrist.

;)

[dazzler]

There can be a problem and it results from static muscular tension. It has nothing to do with repetition and SFA to do with posture and furniture and mice and keyboards. If you take a few seconds to change position and do a bit of a wriggle every so often the problem is mucho reduced. There is software that monitors use and prompts for breaks and has tough settings to get people working again. Costs next to nothing. People using CAD applications etc and almost never moving are more likely to develop symptoms than other computer users. People who don't use computers much won't get RSI from computer use. Unfortunately an industry has been created....

Hi Murray,

well I did get it from repetitively typing on a computer but luckily realised something was wrong early on. Went to the dr who arranged for our ohs people to have a look at my workstation.

They made changes such as the bent keyboard and wrist gel raiser things and after a few weeks I was fine.

It wasnt in my head, was actual pain that was annoying not debilitating. Had I put up with it it may have gotten worse who knows:confused:

cheers

dazzler

[Wongo]

Dazzler

No I am sure they are not lying. Maybe they are just physically unfit.

Oh my back is sore, it is the chair. I can’t sit down for longer than 10 minutes. Give me a bed.

[silentC]

It's one of those things, innit? I've been in a job that requires me to sit in front of a keyboard for at least 8 hours a day for over 17 years. Basically every minute of the day, I am typing (a lot of it here :o ) and I have never had any symptoms that would resemble RSI. I was having trouble with my back for years before I started this game and my back has been 100% better since I put down the tools in 1989. The only thing that stirs it up is physical labour. I guess I was just born to be a desk jockey.

Yet, I know of a number of people who have had this type of injury and who have had much less exposure to keyboards than I have. Don't know why. Maybe there is an RSI gene.

I played in a band with a guitarist who suffered from RSI. He couldn't play for about 6 months. Said it was like touching broken glass whenever he touched the strings. Also met a guy years ago who had to give up the drums because of it.

Glad I don't get it :D

[Wongo]

People are so precious these days don’t you think?

[RufflyRustic]

While SilentC is correct, his comment doesn't apply to me:o [edit - referring to post number 5 or maybe I misconstrued SilentC's meaning?]

Seriously though

I do suffer from RSI or whatever you want to call it. I can't use a paintbrush for more than 15 minutes. I can't hit a nail into a piece of wood without resting my arm after 3 hits (one of the reasons why I have preferred to glue/screw joints in the past). Hand sanding is an absolute painful nightmare, but it's all I have to work with at present due to other reasons so I've finally worked out the best way to do this i.e. frequent rests, changing hand holds, body stance and arm movements.

The pain in the wrists/arms became apparant many years ago. The worst time was cramming for an exam by handwriting out the info while sitting in a freezing cold room - big mistake :( especially when I could barely write the exam the next day. Now, with a bit of trial and error, I've been able to work out what movements hurt and how to get around it, both while using the computer and in my wood/leather work.

Yes, work bought me a natural keyboard years ago and this was the one of the two best aids for me, the other being a good wrist rest for mouse usage.

End result in my humble opinion - RSI exists, it HURTS!! it does stop you doing things, but I don't believe it it insurmountable, or maybe I've just been lucky.

cheers
Wendy

[RufflyRustic]

have to add that I don't agree with some people going overboard on their 'claims', as per Wongo's situation. And I can't really comment on other people's situation as I don't know how it affects them and whether it is truly real or imagined.

Cheers
Wendy


[another edit - or maybe I'm being a little too serious?]

[Gumby]

It's a very serious disease. Some people suffer badly from it in the wrist.

;)

There's quite a few in here with that problem :D

[silentC]

The worst time was cramming for an exam by handwriting out the info while sitting in a freezing cold room
I don't think that is RSI. I suffer from that if I ever have to write any more than a couple of pages by hand. I get cramps in my hand because I hardly do any writing with a pen any more. Before computers came into my life, this wasn't a problem.

Maybe I've got it wrong, but I thought RSI was caused by inflammation of the carpal tunnels that your tendons run through (that's what the guitarist had, anyway) and it is chronic: it doesn't onyl flair up when you do extended activities, it doesn't get better after a day or two. Maybe someone can correct me on that.

[silentC]

OK, I've had a quick read on it and it looks like I'm talking about Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, which is just one of many conditions loosely grouped under RSI. SO I'll pull my head in :p

;)

[Driver]

OK, I've had a quick read on it and it looks like I'm talking about Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, which is just one of many conditions loosely grouped under RSI. SO I'll pull my head in :p

;)

Don't pull it in too hard or you might get RSI in your neck! ;)

[Wongo]

I am not a harsh person am I? But it is an office job, hardly the toughest job in the world. If people have trouble using computers then maybe they should find a job away from it.

I am not a drinker and that’s why I never wanted to be a wine taster. :D

[jow104]

I suffered from RSI, visited the local health service etc. etc. and cured the problem myself around 5 years ago, I stopped playing or learning to play the piano!

So if you suffer nausea when you put your head in a gas oven, you can cure the problem very easily, dont do it.

Same with RSI.

[dazzler]

Hi Wongo

No i dont think you are harsh, misguided in this one single application perhaps ;) .

A couple of things. An injury is an injury whether its driving a dozer, flying an F111 or driving a computer. Under the OHS act all employees must be given every protection that is reasonable from injury. (hence all the new fangled keyboards/desks/chairs etc)

Your company doesnt pay the bills, the insurance company pays the bills through the policy they carry. (if they are paying the bills then there is something amiss :rolleyes: ). If the company continues to experience injuries the policy may be increased.

Unlike the bad old days maintaining a fruadulant claim is very difficult if the insurer and doctors are doing their job properly.

Here is a personal example, I wonder what you think...

Over a ten year period i dislocated both my knees in violent arrests. The right i did three times, two during arrests and once on a work m/c crash. The left I did once during an arrest and once running.

After the first on the left a new surgeon did an exam of both and said that my knees were predisposed to dislocation as they tracked wrong. Two lateral releases realigned them.

Should I be covered? I was predisposed to injuring them so am partly to blame?

cheers

dazzler

[Eddie Jones]

OK, I've had a quick read on it and it looks like I'm talking about Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, which is just one of many conditions loosely grouped under RSI. SO I'll pull my head in :p

;)

Re Carpal Tunnel Syndrome: Been there, had that, got the scar to prove it!

[arose62]

My random thoughts:

"Is RSI/Carpal Tunnel real?" Yup.

1) I'm in IT, and am amazed that most keyboard users can't touch type:eek:
If you've been using a keyboard for a while, it takes about 3 days to break the "look where you're going to type" cycle.
If you're in front of a PC, the keyboard is your professional tool - learn to USE IT!!

2) After I'd been touch typing for about 3 years, my wrists started to hurt by the end of each day, so I tried something different - I switched to the Dvorak layout, and bought a MS Natural keyboard. No problems since.

"Are people too precious?" Yup.

1) After breaking my shoulder at work just over a year ago, I've been amazed that various Dr.s and physios have been amazed at my progress.
Apparently the norm for workers comp cases is NOT to actually try to get better, do your exercises, do your stretches etc., but to "doctor shop" until they find one who'll say they need a payout.:mad: :eek:

2) The day after the Doc gave me my "suitable duties" certificate, I was employed again. What's "unemployment" ??

Cheers,
Andrew

[keith53]

A couple of workmates have been on sick leave for a while now. Both claimed to have suffered from RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury) or OOS (Occupational Overuse Syndrome). One female joined us 3 years ago and had been on and off work ever since. The company is paying all her medical bills.

I mean if you can’t use a computer or a mouse then tough luck. Yes the company is partly responsible but surely it can’t be entirely their fault. Let’s face it, if you are physically incapable of using a mouse then maybe you should not work at all.

Secondly, why is everyone one ordering one of those special keyboards, mouses and mouse pads. They cost the company a fortune.

The world is going mad again.

I know it is not my money but..


Wongo,

Surely you don't mean a private enterprise company? Couldn't be!! I was always under the impression that RSI only struck employees of Governments & Telstra.

Looks like its spreading. I'd better be on my guard.

[craigb]

I used to get bad pain in my right shoulder and arm. It got so bad that I didn't have any strength in the arm at all. Couldn't really lift anything of any weight.

So I changed the position of my mouse to the left side of the PC.

Problem solved.

It took a few weeks for the arm to get back to normal though.

The other thing is that it really stuffs people up when they try and use your PC. :D

[jow104]

I used to get bad pain in my right shoulder and arm. It got so bad that I didn't have any strength in the arm at all. Couldn't really lift anything of any weight.

So I changed the position of my mouse to the left side of the PC.

Problem solved.

It took a few weeks for the arm to get back to normal though.

The other thing is that it really stuffs people up when they try and use your PC. :D


I gave up using a mouse around 4 years ago.
A stylus and pressure board have never given me any gip since. The cost has come down to around £30 in the UK from chain store type outlets.

[Mike Abbott]

A couple of workmates have been on sick leave for a while now. Both claimed to have suffered from RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury) or OOS (Occupational Overuse Syndrome). One female joined us 3 years ago and had been on and off work ever since. The company is paying all her medical bills.

I mean if you can’t use a computer or a mouse then tough luck. Yes the company is partly responsible but surely it can’t be entirely their fault. Let’s face it, if you are physically incapable of using a mouse then maybe you should not work at all.

Secondly, why is everyone one ordering one of those special keyboards, mouses and mouse pads. They cost the company a fortune.

The world is going mad again.

I know it is not my money but..


I realise that the RSI thing apparently contracted from over use of a computor mouse may sound a bit like over-acting. However I would like to assure you that the injury is very much legitimate as I have suffered two lengthy bouts myself.

The injury is very debilitating and takes a long time to recover from (nearly 12 months). In my case I initially could not even hold a screwdriver or any other tool in my right hand. I had no strength in my arm and ended up becoming left handed for nearly 12 months until the injury healed. My employer went to great lengths to help with the recovery.

Work Place injury statistics are indicating that RSI from computor use is becoming one of the most common injuries in the workplace. Employers would be well served to obtain advise on correct setup of computor workstations. There are Occupational Advisors who specialise in providing this advice.

I hope this helps to ease your annoyance.

[Auld Bassoon]

After using a #7 or #8 for about four hours more or less non-stop, followed by a couple of hours with a smoother, my arms and shoulders ache. Does this count? :D

[ozwinner]

Gees guys, I have been laying bricks for over 30 years, and apart from the odd period of pain I can still do the job.

Must be all those limp wrists you have.

Al :rolleyes: :p

[keith53]

Gees guys, I have been laying bricks for over 30 years, and apart from the odd period of pain I can still do the job.

Must be all those limp wrists you have.

Al :rolleyes: :p

You've struck the nail right on the head Al. Fitness and proper ergonomics are the crux of the matter. You can't use muscles infrequently or for lengthy periods and not expect to have some physical reaction.

As a former weightlifter I can tell you that complimentary exercise is very important. Use a muscle one way for a while then work it the opposite way. Mouse users traditionally don't do this. OH&S practice suggests a few minutes of exercise away from the computer every hour. This can help and there are plenty of suggestions available.

As a brickie, you're not doing the same thing all the time. You're bending, lifting, extending your arms, flexing your wrists with the trowel, etc. etc. but not all at the same time. Complimentary exercise. Actually, I take my hat off to you guys. I think bricklaying and concrete work shouldn't be performed by anyone over 30. :D

Cheers,
Keith

[Stuart]

So the reason I don't have RSI from computer work, is I do complementary opposite exercises.....

So here it is - for every 10 minutes with the mouse, spend an hour drinking beer/coke etc.

For every 10 minutes sitting at the computer, spend an hour chatting with the helpdesk, having a laugh at the latest list of PEBKACs

:D Works for me ;)

[Gumby]

Gees guys, I have been laying bricks for over 30 years,

I think there's a cream which will help.

[ozwinner]

I think there's a cream which will help.


Ya get used to it after a while.

Al :eek: :D

[keith53]

So the reason I don't have RSI from computer work, is I do complementary opposite exercises.....

So here it is - for every 10 minutes with the mouse, spend an hour drinking beer/coke etc.

For every 10 minutes sitting at the computer, spend an hour chatting with the helpdesk, having a laugh at the latest list of PEBKACs

:D Works for me ;)

Yeah. It's not rocket science is it?

You must have worked it out instinctively. Or else you're a OHS guru.

In my case, I did typing at high school and I think being able to type with all 10 fingers is one of the best skills I ever learned. I really think that those people who use the same muscles all the time are in sweatshops or the like.

In a real work eivironment, if your hand or arm gets tired from typing, do something different! It's the same with anything. Give it a rest!

[Harry II]

I used to get bad pain in my right shoulder and arm. It got so bad that I didn't have any strength in the arm at all. Couldn't really lift anything of any weight.

So I changed the position of my mouse to the left side of the PC.

Problem solved.

It took a few weeks for the arm to get back to normal though.

The other thing is that it really stuffs people up when they try and use your PC. :D

Yep, I did exactly as above, pain now subsiding quickly. I'm still a bit unco after about 3 months (after 18 years the other way), better to laugh at it and carry on really. Now, logically it should take about 9 years to "balance up" so then I'll just change back again for 4 and half, back 2 and a quarter, back 1 and...back to zero, by that time I'll probably be talking to the things anyway.:o

[Stuart]

I admit it - have worked in OHSE (teaching Emergency Procedures to Staff), also in the Navy, and am currently a Health & Safety rep, first aider etc etc.

I do get a lot of people needing help with RSI and do what I can for them - different setups, voice recognition software etc, and also a LOT of whinging, whining BS. It is a matter of filtering it all though, helping those who need it, and .......

wait a minute.....sounds like I'm a moderator..... :eek:

[Groggy]

At work we have someone who is clearly abusing the 'system. It is so embarrassing that others with genuine complaints are now scared to speak up because they know the reaction will be "oh god, here comes another one!".

I have in the past pulled a muscle in my lower back due to over exertion, as soon as it happened I could hardly walk and was immediately accused of malingering. Obviously I resented that, I also resent having the beginnings of limited movement in my arms and weakness that I suspect may be RSI or whatever it is, and not being inclined to do anything about it because my generation has always just "got on with it".

I guess that makes me a bit of a mug.

[Cliff Rogers]

Look at the clock in the corner of your screen.
As soon as it ticks over the next minute, stick your left arm (right if you are a lefty) straight out parallel to the floor, palm down, & hold it there for one minute.
(watch the clock dumby)
As soon as a minute is up, put your arm down by your side at rest.
The sensation you feel is fatigue, not RSI.
Caused by using musles that you don't normally use, they can do it but are out of condition so they hurt after a while.

Makes a point, I'm not sure what the point is but it makes a point.:rolleyes:
I think it kind of supports Wongo's point. ;)

[keith53]

Look at the clock in the corner of your screen.
As soon as it ticks over the next minute, stick your left arm (right if you are a lefty) straight out parallel to the floor, palm down, & hold it there for one minute.
(watch the clock dumby)
As soon as a minute is up, put your arm down by your side at rest.
The sensation you feel is fatigue, not RSI.
Caused by using musles that you don't normally use, they can do it but are out of condition so they hurt after a while.

Makes a point, I'm not sure what the point is but it makes a point.:rolleyes:
I think it kind of supports Wongo's point. ;)

Oh! Gawd! another OHS guru:D :D :D :D

[Cliff Rogers]

Oh! Gawd! another OHS guru:D :D :D :D

Nope, like all (well most) statistics that are quoted, I made it up on the spot. :D

Works though doesn't it. ;)

[felixe]

:rolleyes: I tried it:D Ohmygod it feels...................................like an arm!!
Must have a direct link to the fact I don't have to sit in front of a cr@ppy screen all day.:)

[Cliff Rogers]

....Must have a direct link to the fact I don't have to sit in front of a cr@ppy screen all day.:)

If that is the case, how did you know where to find the clock. ;) :D

[lesmeyer]

This RSI thing seems to be a big thing in OZ. And for many years now too. Just the other day I was watching some old footage of Sir Les Patterson. He was describing some RSI that he copped at the RSL.:D
Les

[jow104]

Any chance that the condition will spred to the Austalian 11 this summer if your bowlers have to bowl 60 overs every innings each they should be good subjects for the complaint. :D :D :D

[Cliff Rogers]

Any chance that the condition will spred to the Austalian 11 this summer if your bowlers have to bowl 60 overs every innings each they should be good subjects for the complaint. :D :D :D
Against who John? :confused:
Besides, if their good arm was crook, they could use the other one & still beat the bloody poms. :D

[Zed]

what a pack of soft poufs. :D

[Greg Ward]

Wow.
Poor Beathaven and Mozzart.
I knew they suffered terribly, but now I realise it was RSI.

If only they had oh & S in those days we may have got some better music.

Then think of the noise pollution that Bach had to suffer (apart from the teasing from his unfortunate name).

We're so lucky to live in our wonderful world today.

Regards
Greg

[silentC]

I'm in IT, and am amazed that most keyboard users can't touch type
I can't. Maybe that's why I've never suffered from RSI. And because I have to look at the keyboard a lot, maybe that's why I don't get vision problems from staring at the monitor non stop. See, you touch typing smarties think you're so clever but you're not :p

[Wongo]

We should all get a new job, maybe swimming with dolphins all day or something like that. But hey some of us might find the water too cold.:rolleyes:

[silentC]

Yeah but look where it got Steve Irwin.

[Daddles]

Those who've never had RSI will always fail to understand it. I contracted mine swinging a sledge hammer. In those days, I was a surveyor and weilding the sledge was just part of the job. Well, this day, we had about 40 droppers to set into shale. The bashing and stress up my arm inflamed the point where the forearm tendons attach to my elbow and that was it. I've fought that injury for over 15 years now. At it's peak, which it has reached on at least three occasions over the years, I could hold something in my hand vertically, then start to rotate my hand and at about 45 degrees, the grip in my hand would disappear and the object would fall out. Painful in the extreme some days.

Rest is the answer, which threw a lot of stress onto my other arm, the one now doing all the work. Bearing in mind that having an injury, I wasn't doing the heavy work any more, in fact, doing as little as practical. But within two months, the other arm went as well, though fortunately not as badly and the solutions offered so far always helped with that arm. Even now, fifteen years or more later, my right arm, which was the one that went out in sympathy, can not take the full torque of driving a screw into timber using a cordless drill without a twinge of pain.

From the original injury, I was basically unable to use my left arm for over three months. Yes, I copped the malingerer tag and all the rest of it and quite frankly, the few on this thread who have alluded to the same thing deserve reddies for ignorance and intolerance.

Nowadays, the left arm is more or less normal, but I have to be very careful about having it flair up again - feel the symptoms, change the activity. The arm however, lacks strength. Sadly, at the beginning of this year, I bought a laptop and during a period where I was using the laptop flat instead of tilted, have flared up the elbow again. I was typing between 1000 and 1500 words an hour and doing so for three and four hour stretches without a break (that's what you do when you're writing, you don't stop for coffee just because 'it's time', you work while the story is hot) and basically ignored my physical pain. I'm an idiot. While it has largely subsided (because I woke up to myself), I only have about half strength in that arm now, have great difficulty opening jars and things because I can't put enough stress on the arm to hold things. I also have a rest for the laptop that tilts it up at an angle and that has solved the typing position problem. Resting the arm and being a bit more sensible has reduced it to an annoyance, but yes, as someone above suggests, I am incapable of working without pain (as a recent period laying artificial turf proved). Note the qualifier 'without pain'.

So those of you who think it's just some fashionable way of getting out of work, pull your heads in. It's as real as a dud back, a crook joint, cancer, arthritis, ulcers or any of the other things that afflicts us. It is something that will be with you all your life and requires management as soon as it begins to hurt or else the sufferer will quickly find themselves unable to work, unable to do other things - when both arms were bad, I had trouble wiping my ####, and I wasn't what is considered a severe case by any means.

Tolerance and understanding is needed. With that, the problem is managable and the sufferer can still be productive. Without it, you are crippling someone. And yes, genuine malingerers should be fired (not allowed to shoot people anymore).

Richard

[silentC]

I don't think Wongo's point was to belittle people who suffer from it. He is just saying that if that line of work causes you pain, maybe you need to do something different, rather than sticking with it and moaning about it.

I tossed in a rewarding and lucrative job as a builder's labourer to work in a music shop because of what it was doing to my back :D

Actually I can trace all of my chronic problems back to their source. My right ankle aches like crazy after a weekend of hard labour but that's understandable considering that I broke it 10 years ago. My left shoulder gives me curry when I do a lot of spade work but I put that down to the time I shoulder-barged a bus on my bike in Glebe Point Road 14 years ago. My lower back is always aching after a lot of bending or standing and I put that down to the time I launched myself into the air on a taboggan at Thredo and landed on my coccyx in the carpark 20 years ago.

So what did I do about it? I put in a spa bath :D

[dazzler]

A couple of workmates have been on sick leave for a while now. Both claimed to have suffered from RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury) or OOS (Occupational Overuse Syndrome). One female joined us 3 years ago and had been on and off work ever since. The company is paying all her medical bills.

I mean if you can’t use a computer or a mouse then tough luck. Yes the company is partly responsible but surely it can’t be entirely their fault. Let’s face it, if you are physically incapable of using a mouse then maybe you should not work at all.

Secondly, why is everyone one ordering one of those special keyboards, mouses and mouse pads. They cost the company a fortune.

The world is going mad again.

I know it is not my money but..

Hi C

This is what was written.......

You must be a the glass is reaaally half full kindaguy :p ;)


cheers


dazzler

[silentC]

That's just his sarcastic sense of humour. He means well, don't you Wongo? ;)

[dazzler]

;)

:p

[RufflyRustic]

One heck of an interesting thread this.

Maybe my exam cram experience wasn't full-blown RSi or CTS. I can't tell as I didn't have it diagnosed. Whatever it was, it was certainly a huge scary warning, one of which I've taken note.

And yes, it's the few who rort the system that give the real sufferers a bad name :( .

[AlexS]

Fortunately, I've never suffered from (real or imagined) RSI. However, it seems that the advent of RSI coincided with the advent of PCs. Before then, typing was done by professional typists who had been trained, not only in which keys to hit in which order, but in correct posture, exercises, rhythm etc. These ladies (and they always were) used to type for at least 8 hours a day with no RSI. Then along came PCs, and everyone started doing their own typing. Most didn't have lessons because mistakes were easy to fix; you didn't have to change the paper or attack the screen with white-out (didn't you know that Zed?:eek: ). Suddenly, RSI exists. Coincidence? I doubt it.

[MurrayD99]

AlexS is right about it being a new problem (well, post-computers) but the reason is that with an Imperial 66 etc, you are doing lots of other stuff - carriage returns etc... getting carbons, jogging triplicates, paper in and out of the roller, stapling, filing... With a PC, you just sit there, pretty much motionless and your muscles don't like it, were't designed for it. Now swinging a sledgehammer - that is repetitive indeed and the result is not the same as computer RSI at all. Carpal Tunnel disease occurs naturally in about 5% of the population and that isn't caused by computer usage. Wendy, you probably got RSI from computer usage. Because you stopped using it so much after the exams it went away. Take a break and things go back to normal. Keep hammering away and you'll wish you hadn't.

[Terry B]

Hi Wongo


Your company doesnt pay the bills, the insurance company pays the bills through the policy they carry. (if they are paying the bills then there is something amiss :rolleyes: ). If the company continues to experience injuries the policy may be increased.

Unlike the bad old days maintaining a fruadulant claim is very difficult if the insurer and doctors are doing their job properly.


Should I be covered? I was predisposed to injuring them so am partly to blame?

cheers

dazzler
I don't think this is correct. Workers comp only covers large claims. From what I understand if the total cost of the treatment is under ~$250 000 then the cost is added to the companies premiums over the next few years using a formula that I have forgotten. If it is over the 1/4 million then work cover steps in.

[Daddles]

RSI predates computers. The injury I have used to be called 'Tennis Elbow' and there are many variations of it out there.

The computer connection started with electronic keyboards. With a manual typewriter, you had to press the key quite hard to make it work. However, the effortless keys let to many small, repetitive movements and this is a great way to stir it up.

Richard

Did you know that AIDS is a form of RSI? That's right, it's a repetitive s.. injury :D

[dazzler]

I don't think this is correct. Workers comp only covers large claims. From what I understand if the total cost of the treatment is under ~$250 000 then the cost is added to the companies premiums over the next few years using a formula that I have forgotten. If it is over the 1/4 million then work cover steps in.

Hey Terry

I know I am right from a Commonwealth perspective but take the fifth on private enterprise side of things. Still think though that it would be similar as i dont know of many small business' that could handle and xtra 1/4 mil without instantly going under.

Any experts out there

cheers

dazzzler

[Driver]

I'm not an insurance expert but I can comment on Workers' Comp insurance issues from a private enterprise viewpoint. In my previous career, I was a general manager with a big private enterprise organisation.

Some points:

1. Spurious claims for any category of insurance have an impact on everyone in the entire community by inducing insurance companies to increase premiums. There is no 'victimless crime' here.

2. This is just as true for Workers' Comp as it is for, say auto insurance.

3. The notion that big companies "can afford it" is a naive and childish simplification. Do you really think any successful organisation just passively absorbs increases in costs? If they can't be off-set, rejected, negated or minimised, they get passed on - in increased consumer prices. Companies that don't do this will ultimately fail (hence the stress on the word 'successful' in the previous sentence).

4. The premiums that the bigger enterprises pay for Workers' Comp insurance are based upon the individual enterprise's track record. The heavier the claims' cost, the bigger the premiums.

5. The current Workers' Comp system is adversarial. In simple terms, the facts stated above contribute to employers trying hard to minimise their Workers' Comp premiums by establishing that employee claims are spurious.

6. In the nirvana of an ideal world, a good Employee Injury / Employee Sickness compensation system would have, as its first priority, improved safety and health for all employees. Employers, trade unions and the various relevant government bodies all piously claim that this is their first priority. Very little of what I have seen in the many Workers' Comp cases I have dealt with convinces me that there is any truth in these pious claims by employers, unions and our mates in the government. If you think that's a cynical response, you're wrong. Cynicism is about pre-judgement. My attitude is based on real experience.

7. In a period of roughly 16 years when I was in a job that required me to have an over-seeing role for between 120 and 500 colleagues, I reckon I dealt with about 40 Workers' Comp cases. I reckon 3 of them were entirely spurious and the bastards who made the claims were motivated entirely by greed. I still find it hard to believe (but I know it's true) that two of them actually underwent surgery for what medical experts informed me, off the record, were non-existent injuries that they - the medics - could not legally disprove. Most of the rest of the cases were quite genuine. Probably two of them were due to slack operational practices by the company. The rest were a messy mixture of carelessness, ignorance, inattention and misadventure by a whole bunch of people.

My take on the whole thing is that we are ill-served, as a community and a nation, by our current Workers' Compensation insurance system.

I don't have a better model to propose. The issue is complicated. If it is possible, the matter should be tackled by a group who are remote from the vested interests of corporations, trade unions and politicians. That group (again, if it is remotely possible) should be tasked to devise a new system that is aimed at providing adequate prevention and protection for the poor sods who find themselves physically and/or mentally stuffed-up by their jobs. Big call!

[felixe]

If that is the case, how did you know where to find the clock. ;) :D
......Because it was 10:07 pm at night:D :D :D

[Terry B]

Hey Terry

I know I am right from a Commonwealth perspective but take the fifth on private enterprise side of things. Still think though that it would be similar as i dont know of many small business' that could handle and xtra 1/4 mil without instantly going under.

Any experts out there

cheers

dazzzler

I am not sure either. My info came from a friend of mine that is the manager of a cotton gin. I am on the other side of the equation as one who treats the injured. He explained it as I did.They employed between 30 and 100 people depending on the season. I don't know what happens with smaller companies. I pay premiums for my own company that only employs myself and my wife. I can't see that I could make a claim for myself if I was injured so it is just gift money to GIO that I am legislated to pay. This is very anoying as I have income protection insurance anyway but still have to have the workers comp insurance.

[Wild Dingo]

Well... ahem... I had CPL or as its now also known as RSI back before it was termed either! And it wasnt from a computer or desk job... at the time Id been workin at a brick yard on the carosel thats a thing that goes round and round and you along with a bunch of other twits on peice work go like buggary lifting 6 bricks at a time turning and putting them down on pallets to be moved to the holding yard... now the movement was hands either side of the stack of 6 bricks pick up stack turn put down stack and so on... the more you did the more you earnt

Id been doing this work for near on 2 years when pain began in my wrists just behind my thumbs... over a period of a few days the pain increased to such a level I literally couldnt move my hand or fingers without severe pain and I do mean SEVERE PAIN!

Okay so compo see quacks see more quacks have arguments with said quacks and insurance company forced back to work cant work forced back onto compo back to quacks see even more bloody quacks till finally one sends me for the new fangled and expensive MRI scan "ahha!" said said quack who prompty set me into a hospital bed sliced my carpel tunnels or whatever the blazes they do and I was wrapped up by the mits for over a week... then the regimen of physio and barrage of visits to various quacks and super duper quacks started all over again! all said quacks super quacks and physios recommended doing NOTHING!! wearing a bloody fibreglass support that held my wrists straight and thumbs in an upright position! ... but to do nothing if I get pain do nothing stop doing nothing cause that sort of nothing is obviously not doing the job its ment to do so do another form of bloody nothing!!

End of story was that I wasnt wearing the damned brace thing I was excersizing the hand wrist and thumb contrary to all advice back then and I was going into the pain marginally every time a bit more every time it got a bit better... till I finally got the clearance cert to return to work... if I had of have done what those idiots said I had to do which was essentially imobilize the hand and thumb Id still be buggared!! Instead I went against their methods and fixed the problem!... Im not saying I took the brace of and started lifting weights I didnt but when it hurt more than I thought I could tolerate I went just a tad further what this did that the bloody quacks super quacks and physios couldnt see was to slowly and gently strengthen the wrists and thumbs

While some do scam the compo system its not as prevelant as you appear to think... mmm I think I can feel a bit of a rant type thread coming up from inside?? mmmm ;)

RSI and CTS are real they do friggin hurt like buggary and they dont necessarily happen just to typists or office johnnies either!

[RETIRED]

RSI and CTS are real they do friggin hurt like buggary and they dont necessarily happen just to typists or office johnnies either!I will second that.

[Terry1]

Hello Wongo,I noticed your thread about RSI or whatever and it caught my attention.

I've been laying bricks for a long time now(37years)and every now and then (at the moment actually,hence the interest)I get a bout of tennis elbow,usually after laying blocks too high.We had to lay concrete blocks 10 courses high recently and that really ripped both my elbows pretty well.If the other people who get this problem feel like I do at the moment then I feel sorry for them as it is extremely painful and won't go away for me until I get a shot of cortisone.I can't imagine putting up with it for long periods if it didn't go away as it is just too painful and you just don't have the necessary strength to operate normally.You mentioned that it might be more likely to affect people who are unfit but I haven't found that theory to be right as I still am pretty active and coach boxing at the local PCYC four nights a week as well as laying bricks all day so maybe the problem doesn't discriminate in that way.Anyway,it is a nasty problem to encounter and wouldn't like it to happen too often and heres hoping the cortisone works this time.Regards Terry

[ozwinner]

Glucosamine Terry, glucosamine.

I used to get the same pains in my elbows too, made me almost cry each night from pain.
Then I discovered glucosamine http://www.ubeaut.biz/wizard.gif, then as if by magic the pain went, and stayed away.

It took 6 months for the pain to go and I still take glucosamine each day.
I dont take the tablets, I buy the stuff in powder form in kilo tubs.

I havent had the pains for over 6 or more years now. http://www.ubeaut.biz/approval.gif
All I get now is the odd pain in the back.

This has been Doctor Al :)

[Terry1]

G/day Al,Thanks for the tip,I'll start on that stuff next week My wife actually uses the tablets but I'll get the powder form you are recommending and have a crack at that.We were only helping another gang out for a few days when this happened as they insisted that they always went ten courses and we didn't need a "hop up".Of course as soon as we finished the eighth course the other two blokes with us had to go and set up another wall and we (son and I)were left to it.My elbows had been sore since coming back from Perth recently as we were laying alot of over sized bricks over there some of which were 150mm wide and hard on your arms up high.So we had to lift the blocks up with both hands on the front web of the block and lift them over the line (two metres high)This finished my elbows off pretty well and after topping a couple of walls like that I told them to "jam it"and we went back to nine courses,but the damage was done.And people tell you they would love to be brickies Al and rake in the money.Ha ha.Regards Terry

[kiwigeo]

Dazzler

No I am sure they are not lying. Maybe they are just physically unfit.

Oh my back is sore, it is the chair. I can’t sit down for longer than 10 minutes. Give me a bed.

Even fit people can develop back problems later in life.

[kiwigeo]

It took 6 months for the pain to go and I still take glucosamine each day.
I dont take the tablets, I buy the stuff in powder form in kilo tubs.



I'm taking glucosamine as well.....4000mg a day plus good old fish oil tablets (5000mg/day). Like Al says the glucosamine does work and often the change is quite amazing.

A study was done recently on a group of elderly tennis players in Adelaide. They were put on high dosages of fish oil (15000mg/day I think) and results were very impressive.

[MoonShine]

Hi all, new to this here forum so please be gentle.

I'm teaching an over 50's group how to use PC's down at the local Community Centre.
The first thing I sorted out when the administrator showed me the computer area was the mouse rest, there wasn't one.

When I started on computers for the first time around 8 years ago, did genuinely suffer from what was apparently RSI in the right, mouse arm.
Here at home I have an elbow rest so my arm below the elbow is fully supported and its a godsend.
They had their mouse pads sitting right on the edge of the cabinets where all that is touching the surface is the hand and a few inches of your lower arm.
I had a go and had to get off it around 10 minutes in. It hurt like hell.
So organized some laminated planks, drilled a few holes and had a swivelling lower arm support for mouse use.

Oh, and by the way, 30 odd years ago I loaded 60lb projectiles into a gun turrets cradle in the Royal Australian Navy, post RAN was into many lines of work involving heavy lifting and labour, such as builderers labourer, demolitions, brickies and plasterers labourer, and played Aussie Rules Football for more than 15 years.
The pain I copped in the first few months of using a PC mouse, without exaggeration was much like a huge rusty old nail driven into my arm below the elbow and had not experienced this agony before.
Also started on the Glucosamine & Fish Oil stuff, heard its dynamite for osteo-arthritis in the old back as well.