DIY Gas Cooktop Replacement - Viable ?

[SteveAndBelle]

Hi,

We have an old, grotty basic model Westinghouse 4-burner cooktop and I want to replace it with a new one in a similar model. The previous owners of the house cleaned it with hardcore abrasive cleaners so it's very difficult to keep clean plus the electric ignition doesn't work so we've got to light it with one of those silly gas lighter thingys.

I've found a suitable replacement cooktop (brand new, ex-display) for $199 which I think is a bargain (especially as we're planning to rip the kitchen out in a few years and replace everything from scratch) but I want to know what's stopping me from replacing this myself ?

I've dabbled in all other aspects of 'dangerous' home maintenance and have succeeded every time probably due to the fact that I triple-check every aspect of my work before I put it into action plus that fact that I'm paranoid of anything going wrong so I can't see why I couldn't do this myself too ... but for some reason I'm just not too sure.

I was planning on performing the 'soapy-water' test on the gas join multiple times plus run one of those cheapie gas detectors ($50 at Jaycar) over the entire job a few times before ignition, but is that really enough ?

I obviously don't want to send our house sky-rocketing but on the other hand I'm keen to give this a go myself to prove I can do it plus to save a cool $200-250 for a qualitfied gas fitter to do it for me and to give me a certificate to justify the expense.

Anyone have any advice ? Should I attempt it and if not why shouldn't I ??

[OBBob]

I wouldn't expect that much just to unscrew one connection and screw on a new one. If the pipe isn't in the same spot they will just use a flexible extension. You may need a power connection for the new unit though ... depending on how it ignites?

[SteveAndBelle]

Thanks ObBob.

The current unit uses 240V ignition so both the cooktop and separate gas oven are plugged in to a double GPO under the cooktop so that's all ready-to-go. The new cooktop uses a battery powered igniter (I'd say much the same as the one in my Weber BBQ) which is fine by me. I'd prefer a 240V igniter however I've never had a problem with the one in the Weber BBQ and as I'm getting the cooktop for $199 I don't really mind either way ... just as long as it ignites :)

OK, I might go myself some yellow sealing tape and see how I go. If I think the connection isn't 100% once I've done it I'll happily pay for a gas fitter to come out and finish it off for me but I reckon I'll be right.

Anyone else have any input ?

Steve.

[Ashore]

Just check that the new top has the correct burners for the type of gas you are using, ie town / bottle etc

Rgds

[SteveAndBelle]

Yep Ashore,

We're running 'Natural Gas' and the new cooktop is a 'Natural Gas' type so it's basically a direct replacement.

I think this is a go-er. Anyone else want to add anything ?

Thanks.

[lnt9000]

I rang a guy up to come and cap off a connection on a wall oven as I wanted to replace it with an electric model, well a few hours later a chap knocks on the door, Hmmm must be the apprentice ( very young ) anyhow unscrews the pipe and puts a cap on in about 5 minutes, $50 bucks thanks mate gives a receipt and off he goes, pretty simple to do but will your conscience let you, deep down your thinkin' if it's only $50 bucks why bother with the risk?, however later I checked the receipt and it had nothing on it to indicate who issued it, so in actual fact anyone could assume that I did it myself, If they are asking $250 then It's the principle.

[renomart]

Anyone get a plumber out to change the gas bottle on their BBQ? :rolleyes::):eek:

[SteveAndBelle]

Thanks Renomart,

My thoughts exactly :)

Steve.

[Sturdee]

Anyone get a plumber out to change the gas bottle on their BBQ? :rolleyes::):eek:


True, but the BBQ gas bottle is normally turned of at the bottle between use whereas you don't turn of the gas mains when the cooktop is not in use. :( :( :(

A bit like comparing apples with oranges I think. BTW I don't like red herrings I prefer mine plainly salted with onions. :D


Peter.

[Gas Man]

G'Day Steve,

I am not a gas fitter but work in the industry. The work that you want to carry out is really very simple - but legally you should not be carrying out this installation your self.

It could have terrible ramifications if you ever have to make a major household insurance claim - please be careful.

Locktite Gas Sealant is better than thread tape and test all connections by brushing a "strong" solution of soap and water. If bubbles present it is leaking.

Good Luck.

[SteveAndBelle]

Gas Man, thanks for your input.

I know I should be getting a 'pro' to do it but I can't justify the expense. If I do the job slowly & carefully and make 100% sure that the connection is 100% leakproof I can't understand why I'd have a problem and therefore need to make an insurance claim when the house is blown into splinters.

Silly thing is it's nice to know that a 'pro' has done the job and has written up a certificate however who's to say a 'pro' connected it in the first place ?!? When we bought the house we didn't get anything at all, no instruction manuals for the hot water system, no receipts or manuals for the 'Safety Switch' ... nothing. I definitely didn't get anything certifying that all the gas connections were done by a 'pro' so why should I spend the money to get one ? If something went wrong right now with our current cooktop (touchwood) I don't have a certificate to cover me so I can't see the benefit.

I will definitely be getting a gas fitter, electrician & plumber in when we eventually renovate the kitchen in a couple of years as we're going to have to modify everything to the extreme but I can't justify it for a straight 'n simple swapover.

I frequently connect & disconnect the gas fitting on my table-top heater (to get it through the umbrella hole in the middle of the table) using the yellow 'gas' sealer tape and although I keep a close eye on the condition of the brass fittings I've never had a problem there ... so again I can't see why the cooktop would be any different.

Luckily the fitter who previously installed the current cooktop also installed handy isolation valves for both the cooktop and the oven so I don't have to kill the gas for the whole house (although I might do anyway to be on the safe side) so I'll just bleed the pipe by closing the valve and burning the leftover gas in the pipe. I'll disconnect & reconnect and then do the soapy water test using a 'strong' solution. After that I'll check it with the Jaycar gas detector a few times and then I'll leave it for a while (an hour or two) and then retest it with the soapy water & gas detector just to be 100% sure.

I'll recheck it wit hthe gas detector each day after that for about a week and then reduce that to once a week for about a month. Surely by then I'll know it'll be fine from then on ... I mean what else can happen ?

Do you use the Locktite Sealer on the threads and does it set like glue or does it stay slighly gooey like windscreen sealant ?

Steve.

[b1ueshift]

It's your home and your safety - so if you want to do it yourself who's to say you shouldn't. All the gear you need to do the job is available from Bunnings so I expect a lot of people are doing this kind of thing themselves.

If the old stove top is not too old then it will have a flexible hose and it will be really easy to swap it over. The braided flexible hoses for gas appliances have straight threads (as opposed to taper threads) and seal at the compressible gasket at the base of the thread. I wouldn't use use any yellow tape on this kind of thread because it might interfere with the main seal at the bottom of the treaded connection. Tape is best for tapered threads.

I think the law is more to protect contractors than home owners, but I don't want to start a flame war over politics.

[SteveAndBelle]

Thanks B1ueshift,

The old cooktop has the gas inlet under the top right hand corner which (from what I've been seeing of all the new similar 'basic' cooktops) seems to be a kind of 'standard' layout.

It's currently connected with rigid copper pipes so there are no braided flexible pipes anywhere under the bench. Between the isolating valve and the cooktop is a small silver coloured regulator.

I'm hoping that if I get an identical cooktop or a cooktop with the gas inlet in the exact same position I should just be able to use everything that's already in place. If any pipe modifications are required I have no problem calling out a gasfitter to install it all properly ... but I'm hoping I wont have to do that.

'Roger' on the yellow thread tape, I'll keep that aside and go get myself a tube of 'gas' joint Locktite.

Thanks for the info !

[arms]

hi ,
do it right great ,
do it wrong BOOM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i think i would pay the man:eek:

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Viable? Yes. Worth it? That's entirely your call, you've been told the risks, you obviously know the procedure for a straight swap and will probably take more care with it than a tradie for whom it's just more of the daily grind.

But if it turns out you need to go the braided hose route, it'd probably be cheaper to call a gasfitter. He'd change the rigid fittings and already has the correct flaring tools, etc. in his kit. They're too expensive to buy for a "one-off" operation.

So, dry-fit the cooktop and see which way to go. What's the holdup? :D

[SteveAndBelle]

Skew ChiDAMN (& everyone else)

We've just come home from buying a brand new cooktop for a bargain price of $177 from Retravision. It's old stock but it's an exact replacement for the one we currently have plus it has the bonus of a 'so-called' wok burner to boot !

Only thing is that it's an LPG model however the sales person told us that it can very easily be changed over to 'Natural Gas' simply by swapping out the jets for the correct type. I'm a bit hesitant to believe him because when we asked about how to convert our Weber BBQ over to Natural Gas we were told we'd have to replace the jets and the manifold which would set us back a couple of hundred dollars. I also don't understand that if it's that easy why do the manufacturers go the touble of selling cooktops in either Nautral or LPG types ? We bought the thing anyway as he said that we could take it back for a full refund if need be so that's nice to know.

Is changing the gas type as simple as chaning over the jets ? Seems logical enough to me as it's just the apeture of the jets that changes for the different pressures ... but why is it so hard to do on the Weber BBQ I wonder ?

Any have any ideas ?

Steve.

[Ashore]

Should be just change the jets , do it before you install it of course, :D

With the webber they are made to burn heat beads etc and to convert them to gas takes a bit of modification plus the brand name costs more. Also with a BBQ conversion you need to change the regulator and hose as it goes to a diffrent type fitting and thread, you wouldn't want to inadvertantly use the wrong regulator by connecting the wrong hose boom boom ( literally) :eek:


Rgds

[SteveAndBelle]

Ashore,

Our Weber is a four burner type and doesn't contain any hot rocks. It uses Stainless 'flavouriser bars' instead. Silly Weber names :)

Anyhoo, I just called up another Retravision store to see fi they had any NG jets and to confirm what the other guy had told me from the other store. He said that as it's a Simpson cooktop jet replacement is as simple as calling Simpson up and getting the NG jets as spare parts. He mentioned that some other brands it's either impossible or very difficult to changeover which is why the units are sold as one of the other from the factory.

I then realised that our current cooktop would already have NG jets (duh) and I there might be a chance of simply changing them over however it seems to have jets hidden deep down inside the cooktop & past an elbow so I can't easily get to them.

Not to worry, I'll just call Simpson during the week and get the NG jets as 'spares'. I can then replace the unit during the week or next weekend. I'll let you know how it goes.

The story continues ... but thanks for all your help and feel free to add anything else as it might help others doing similar foolish things ;)

Steve.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Only thing is that it's an LPG model however the sales person told us that it can very easily be changed over to 'Natural Gas' simply by swapping out the jets for the correct type.

Isn't it odd how even the simplest jobs can take on a complexity of their own? :D

[SteveAndBelle]

Ha ! Yeah ... but that's because I'm fussy and wanted to keep with a white cooktop, not stainless steel :)

Plus it was $177 reduced from ... wait for it ... $457, so for a saving of $280 I think I can deal with a few hassles ;)

Called Simpson and found that they sell a 'Natural Gas Conversion Kit' for $31.75 so I'll go get it on Monday and hopefully have the cooktop in early in the week.

Steve.

[SteveAndBelle]

Well, here's how the story ends (not with a BOOM either ;) ...

I had to order the Natural Gas Conversion Kit through Simpson (Electrolux) and wait 5 days. I bought a small tube of 'Leak Lock' and a small bottle of 'Gas Leak Detector' (a thick fluroescent yellow bubbling soapy type liquid) from BOC. I also bought the Jaycar Flammable Gas Detector which I highly recommend to anyone wanting to test for gas leaks, it's great & super sensitive !! The Simpson parts got to me on Friday just gone so I was rearing to go to get the cooktop installed yesterday.

Right then. I closed the valve feeding the old cooktop, undid the pipe and the cooktop popped out of the bench without any dramas so that was 30 seconds well spent ;) Just to be sure I stuck the Jaycar Gas Detector into the end of the open pipe to check if the valve was really cutting all the gas off ... which it was. I quickly turned the valve on & off again just to be sure and the detector instantly went into alarm mode so at least I knew everything was working OK. Once I rechecked the gas pipe I then compared threads of the old and new cooktops and of course they were different (3/8" for the old vs. 1/2" for the new) however on closer inspection the old cooktop was connected via a reducer so I thought I'd just be able to reconfigure the pipework a bit and get it working. Well that's what I thought anyway ;)

After stuffing around with different fittings for a few minutes and realising that the old pipe connections use a much different sealing system to the new ones (flared metal pipe ends on shaped metal connections for the old vs simple fibre washers for the new) I decided to toss in the towel. It wasn't that it was difficult to put together it's just that I wasn't confident that mixing the old and new connections & seals would give me a perfectly 'leak free' system. Also I noticed that the old connections on rigid copper pipework from the isolating valve feeding the regulator looked a bit 'dodgy' (even though they're probably perfectly OK) so I thought it'd be best to get a 'pro' in just to be on the safe side.

So, that's where I'm at. I'll call a 'pro' tomorrow to hookup and 'certify' the new cooktop during the week. Shame I couldn't do it myself as I was keen to gain the extra experience however I don't want to blow the house or the wife up ... well, not yet anyway ;)

Even after the extra expense of the sealant, leak detector and gas detector (about $70 total) plus the $30 for the Natural Gas Conversion Kit we're still way in front as most stores could only offer me their very basic models of cooktop for $350 - $400 ... and that was their super-special prices too ! Including everything we're currently only up to $280 (thanks to finding the brand new yet superceded model cooktop at Retravision for $177) plus I've now got myself a cool gas detector so I'm happy with that :)

I'll update this thread once the new cooktop is installed just to let you know how much it was etc.

Thanks again for all your input and if anyone else is thinking of doing a similar thing I'd highly recommend you go for it but at the same time I'd recommend you identify your limits and pull out if things just don't 'feel' right.

[Tools]

Thanks again for all your input and if anyone else is thinking of doing a similar thing I'd highly recommend you go for it but at the same time I'd recommend you identify your limits and pull out if things just don't 'feel' right.


well said !

[renomart]

The money was well spent on your 'education'. ;)

[SteveAndBelle]

The cooktop was installed by a 'pro' today. 1hr and $150 later I have a fully certified installed cooktop ! Yay :)

Funny thing was that the gas fitter installing it actually turned on all the burners and lit them up before checking for leaks on his joins ! We were chatting all the way through the install and when he did that I asked "shouldn't you check for leaks before igniting the cooktop" ? He replied "Yes but being Natural Gas you don't really have to worry about it ... you can stick your head inside and oven & turn the gas on all day and it wont bother you" and he then proceeded to check his work for leaks. He also explained that its the LPG connections you've got to worry about as LPG expands up to nine times its size when in contact with oxygen and is much more explosive ... but still, there would be no way I'd be lighting up a freshly installed gas cooktop without checking my joints first :eek:

Anyhoo, he was a really nice guy and his work was very slick, neat & tidy so I suppose I had nothing to worry about. After all he IS a professional !

Thanks to all for all your comments & suggestions. It's just a pity I wussed out and didn't do it myself but not to worry, at least my insurance will pay out now if the house goes BOOM ;)

Seeya.

[PKG]

Hi All
Just joined the Forum, so pretty new newbie!

Wonder if someone can advise on how to do the above conversion?

Thanks.

[SilentButDeadly]

In a cooktop............I EMPHASISE AGAIN........in a cooktop, all that is typically required is changing the little brass jets in the bootom of each burner. Usually cheap and simple.

In other gas appliances (especially those with thermostats such as HWS) you may also need new controller.....

[Abba]

Anyone get a plumber out to change the gas bottle on their BBQ? :rolleyes::):eek:

Let's compare what happens if connection is leaking?

With the BBQ at your backyard you will run out of gas.
With the cooktor you may (God save us from such a fate) lose your house or even someone you love.

The choice is yours...

P.S. I am not a gas fitter.

[bricks]

Thanks again for all your input and if anyone else is thinking of doing a similar thing I'd highly recommend you go for it but at the same time I'd recommend you identify your limits and pull out if things just don't 'feel' right.


Nice work,