New DSLR camera

[Harry72]

Looking into buying a new camera to replace my old Canon PS A20(yeah she's old but served me well, help me give up smoking it did!), I dont mind playing with cameras so thinking of stepping up to a DSLR:D.

The Canon EOS400D/EFS 18-55mm/75-300 Zoom Twin Lens Kit deal from Teds looks good at $1650, but add a 4gig card($399) and its hitting over $2k.(a bit more than I want to spend... but if I have too)
How bigger card should I get do you reckon I'd get away with a 2gig card, how many images would I get at full res(10mp). I rather get 1 card than a couple, Im mainly buying it for the Honeymoon trip to NZ(and me woodwork... Shhhh)are there places that I could transfer the images to my 2gig USB stick while on holi's?

Or should I step back to the Canon EOS 350D with Canon 18-55mm zoom, and additional EF90-300mm lens at $1450 and spend the extra on a big card?

(edit, forget about the card... just brought 8gig(2x4)high speed, off ebay(memorymate an aussie seller of genuine gear)for $400!

[MajorPanic]

Harry,

Get real & look at a Nikon.

I can personally recommend a D70s!!! ;) :D :D :D

[Stuart]

I assume you have lenses for the Canon, that will be usable on the new body. The Rebel is highly regarded in photo comp circles (not sure its Australian name).

On such a large purchase, it is worth using Choice Shopper to get the best price - basically you find the best possible price you can, and they will try to find someone to better it, with the contacts they have. I saved a small fortune on mine - but I was a bit lucky! You do need to be a member (aka subscribe). They arrange the contact with the seller (store), and arrange for the store to contact you

As to where I got my stuff from: Photo Continental (think they are in Queensland), all done either by phone, or the web. Worth checking out their website for pricing - they should be better than Teds any day of the week. If not, contact them!

http://www.photocontinental.com.au/
(http://www.photocontinental.com.au/)
Oh, and don't forget probably the best independent camera review site there is

http://www.steves-digicams.com/

You can see actual full res test shots taken on whatever camera you are looking at, the entire copy of the users manual, an overview of the camera and all its functions, and a review.

[Harry72]

Sorry Maj but the D70 is behind the 400D, its the competitor for the 350D. The Nikon nearest D200 starts at $2500 body only, I cant afford(or want to) that much it wouldnt leave me enough money for the rest of the kit.
Stuart, PC's dont list the 400D yet, they're only a tad cheaper than Teds.

Ended up with the 400D from Teds, just got to wait for it to arrive... not on the shop shelf yet, mid Sept.
I grabed a tripod as well for the woodwork pics and a bag for the holi's!

So what web sites are good for newbie clickers to learn from?

[woodbe]

Here u go:

http://luminous-landscape.com/

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1031

http://www.prophotohome.com/forum/index.php

And that's only scratching the surface :)

Teds is remarkably competitive once they realise you are a buyer. I've bought my last 2 cameras there, thinking that they wouldn't match the price I had obtained from the cheapest internet seller I could find. Each time, they beat the price I had.

woodbe.

[Schtoo]

I don't know which camera you should buy. :confused:


I do know that the prices I am seeing from Oz are making me feel woozy. :eek:


If only the electronic goods from here all had English in them... :o

Although, dad snagged a Canon video camera that had English in it. :rolleyes:

[ian]

Looking into buying a new camera to replace my old Canon PS A20(yeah she's old but served me well, help me give up smoking it did!), I dont mind playing with cameras so thinking of stepping up to a DSLR:D.

The Canon EOS400D/EFS 18-55mm/75-300 Zoom Twin Lens Kit deal from Teds looks good at $1650, but add a 4gig card($399) and its hitting over $2k.(a bit more than I want to spend... but if I have too)
How bigger card should I get do you reckon I'd get away with a 2gig card, how many images would I get at full res(10mp). I rather get 1 card than a couple, Im mainly buying it for the Honeymoon trip to NZ(and me woodwork... Shhhh)are there places that I could transfer the images to my 2gig USB stick while on holi's?

Or should I step back to the Canon EOS 350D with Canon 18-55mm zoom, and additional EF90-300mm lens at $1450 and spend the extra on a big card?Now get really confused
go for a read through Ken Rockwell's site http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech.htm#digital
Ken has two basic points
1) the camera has very little influence on the final result, it's the photographer that counts
2) The choice between Canon and Nikon can be made on price.

oh, and 3) if you're serious about wide angle shots, you'll need a lens that goes as wide as 12mm.


My own view is that a digital point and shoot that fits in a shirt pocket is the way to go. Less bulk, always with you, and some even take an external flash for when you need to light up a room. The better ones (i.e. more expensive) have all the controls you'd ever want to fiddle with.

I've a Casio Exilim EX-P700 (7Mpixel) that can shoot programed auto (20+ programs), Apature Priority, Shutter Priority and full Manual. I can fit about 260 shots (at best quality) on a 1 Gb card. Equivalent to about two days shooting. Digital shots are almost "costless" so you can take heaps.


ian

[ian]

forget about the card... just brought 8gig(2x4)high speed, off ebay(memorymate an aussie seller of genuine gear) for $400!OK so now you're committed to the camera that supports 4Gb cards of the type you've just bought

Just for interest, which of the Canons supports 4Gb cards?

ian

[woodbe]

OK so now you're committed to the camera that supports 4Gb cards of the type you've just bought

Just for interest, which of the Canons supports 4Gb cards?

ian

I think if they take that type of card, and they are a couple of years old or less, they will support 4gb. Certainly the 400D, 350D, all of the current 1Ds/n, 20D, 30D and 5D, plus various of the point and shoots.. (The new Canon P&S cameras all seem to be going SD/MMC memory)

There can be no denying the convenience of a point and shoot, but if you like having full control over aspect and depth of field, and like noise-free images, the DSLR is hard to beat.

woodbe.

[ian]

Woodbe
you really need to have a play with my Casio. About the only things sacrificed compared to a DSLR are diopter adjustment of the viewfinder, interchangeable lenses, and through the lens scene framing (which is a debatible "plus" given the rear LCD display). Apart from these it can do everything (and more) that my film SLR can do, including spot metering


ian

[BobL]

I've a Casio Exilim EX-P700 (7Mpixel) that can shoot programed auto (20+ programs), Apature Priority, Shutter Priority and full Manual.

While I agree the Casio is a sweet little camera with that super fast reaction time shutter and has a fair range of manual settings, overall it still does not have the full set of speed/aperture/shutter, depth of field, noise levels, doesn't capture RAW and has limited bit level compared to current DSLRs. Mostly these are toys for pro photographers but there have been a number of times this year I have used the 3200 ISO setting in dimly lit rooms and have captured unique images that current P&S cameras haven't a hope of capturing (see attachment, 5 portrait shot 120 degree, 61.5Mb} panoramic composite, 3200 ISO, a flash would ruin a shot like this - of course highly compressed to fit on the forum doesn't do the shot justice). Whether you be prepared to pay 3 - 4 times more for that capability is of course up to you.

Having spent weeks doing serious optical testing and digital image processing on a number of cameras and lenses I have proved at least for myself that unless you have super quality lenses (I'm talking $2000+ for the lens) and are going to enlarge to more that A3 print, anything more than about 6Mp is generally a waste of pixels for all digital cameras.

[BobL]

Woodbe
you really need to have a play with my Casio. About the only things sacrificed compared to a DSLR are diopter adjustment of the viewfinder, interchangeable lenses, and through the lens scene framing (which is a debatible "plus" given the rear LCD display). Apart from these it can do everything (and more) that my film SLR can do, including spot metering


ian

Ian, This is hardly a fair comparison - the new DSLRs are (in some ways) are a BIG step up on their film equivalents.

That aside lets still compare film SLRs against the latest P&S. For example, the aperture range on the Casio Website says the EX-Z700 can do F2.7/F4.3 - surely your film SLR can do better than this and I bet has much better DOF control that your Casio. The reason they often only provide a few (wide) apertures on P&S digis is because the small imaging chips means almost everything is always in focus irrespective of what aperture you use - ie almost complete loss of DOF control. For the vast majority of P&S users this means more in focus photos but pros and serious amateurs like to have much more control over DOF and as you probably know sometimes want to be able to throw foreground and or background out of focus.

Nevertheless I would not be without a small digi and I think they are a brilliant little device. I currently have a Canon IXUS 5Mp, a well used (22000 shots) Minolta D7 and a Canon D20. I take most of my pictures with the IXUS and if I had to choose only one camera that would be it. (It takes excellent panorama shots too - see attachment, 6 portrait shot 150 degree composite panorama, Matilda Bay Yatch club, taken in twilight from the MBYC restaurant). In 2002 my wife and I travelled Europe for 6 months and took about 12000 photos between us (almost exactly 6000 each). My wife used a 2Mp Kodak and I used the Minolta D7. In general I would say she got far more interesting and unusual shots simply because she had her camera with her everywhere we went whereas mine was not always with me. Small is good, real good, especially when you have no other camera available.

One more thing - I rate the use of LCD display to frame shots on P&S as a BIG negative. Holding a camera at half arms length is simply not conducive to holding the camera in a stable manner or following a subject while taking a photo. Then when they get dubious shakey photos in lowish light users often wonder what's wrong with the camera. I have even heard of people taking their cameras back to the store over this one. However those cameras with the swivelling LCDs are useful for taking photos at funny angles.

[Harry72]

Hmmm all these letters... much to learn, is this where the car industry got it from :)

ian, yes im commited to a camera (400D canon) that will support a 4gig 150x speed card(22mb sec), they are backwards compatible I think(not fully sure)that these cards would work in my old Canon PS A20(2000-1 vintage).

[woodbe]

Ian,

I'm sure your Casio is a great camera. We have a small Canon P&S, and I'm considering getting a Panasonic LX2 when they came out.

But.

A P&S just doesn't cut it when you want to get fine-grained control. Partly, this could be solved as the cameras get more sophisticated, but some of this stuff is a function of the difference in the formats. Your Casio has the 1/1.8" sensor, which is large for a P&S, but as you can see below, it is way smaller than the smallest DSLR sensor:

edit: I just realised that I had broken the terms of use at photo.net, so here is a link to the article there, rather than a scraped image. You'll see the comparison of sensor sizes about a third the way down this page here: http://www.photo.net/equipment/digital/basics/

Apart from the improvement in the quality of the image files produced by the bigger sensors, it give the photographer the ability to control the depth of field to a far greater extent than is possible with the P&S. The photographer can also choose from a huge range of lenses.

The disadvantage of the DSLR is bulk and cost. The advantage is quality of the end result, provided the nut behind the trigger has got a clue :) I'm sure there are P&S users who take better photos than DSLR users...

woodbe.

[ian]

Bob

Can't say I really disagree with you. One of the reasons I'm enarmoured of digital P&S is I'm sick of the weight and bulk of a film SLR and a few lenses — Nikon F90 + 80–200/2.8 ED + 85/1.8 + 24–50 + 18/2.8 + flash + spare manual body (so I can run two different film stocks) + film + tripod + spare batteries — the whole package is well over 10kg. These days I only feel like taking it along if I know I'm going somewhere I haven't been before and I've got a car. BUT the Casio can always be with me.

I often wonder how many of those who buy a DSLR and lens package ever take the camera out of full auto or upgrade to a fast lens. A work colleague recently bought a D50, and was complaining that he couldn't take portraits with a blurred background, so I leant him the 85/1.8. I think he now appreciates the difference a fast lens makes.

In the interest of full disclosure, I expect to acquire a Nikon DSLR before Christmas.


ian

[woodbe]

Probably, a lot of people who buy their first DSLR are so blown away by the improved quality of the images, and the ability to properly see what they are actually taking, they don't realise there is more to be had.

So D200 then, or D2Xs? Nice lens collection you have there, pity Nikon isn't forthcoming with a FF sensor camera (yet)

woodbe.

[Harry72]

"I'm sure there are P&S users who take better photos than DSLR users..."
That'll probably be me with the dslr! http://www.ubeaut.biz/help.gif

[ian]

woodbe,
Probably a D80, which I'm told is the D200 electricals stuffed into a D70 body. What's making me blanche is the cost of the lenses. With the digital body I also want to get at least one of either the 12-24mm f4.G DX IF-ED or 18-200 f3.5 VR

ian

[Honest Gaza]

Indications from the US are that the Canon 400D (Rebel XTi) will sell for approx $899 US with the 18-55mm kit lens. This converts to approx $1210 AUS.

I haven't seen pricing in Australia as yet (apart from Teds), so if the $1499 is correct.....ouch !!!!

Why is it we pay so much more in Australia ?

[ian]

Indications from the US are that the Canon 400D (Rebel XTi) will sell for approx $899 US with the 18-55mm kit lens. This converts to approx $1210 AUS.

I haven't seen pricing in Australia as yet (apart from Teds), so if the $1499 is correct.....ouch !!!!

Why is it we pay so much more in Australia ?two main reasons:

1) US prices are always ex tax and ours always plus tax, thus $1210 is really $1331 after GST (Ted's price is only +$168 above this). The comparison is further complicated by a retailer's preference to call pick price points just below whole hundreds or whole fifties eg $899 not $900, $1499 not $1500.

2) Australia is a very much smaller market which translates to higher margins, higher transport costs, lower turnover and hence higher stock holding costs, etc


ian

[Jack E]

I must be a lucky bugga then!
I have a Casio Exilim S-500 and an EOS 350D
I got the DSLR with the 18-55 and 75?-300, but then I bought an 18-200 Tamron so I wouldn't have to change lenses when taking every day photos.
I previously had a 28-200 sigma on a film EOS 3000 and found this to be enough, and the 200 on digital gives you much the same range as a 300 on film.
I am still looking to get a macro (65 Canon) and wide angle (10-20 Sigma).
The 28-200 Sigma is one of the rare lenses that won't fit Canon film and Digi.

If anybody wants the 18-55 or 75-300 for the Canon DSLR I am willing to part with them for the right price.

I also no longer want my EOS 3000 film SLR with the 28-55 canon lense and the 28-200 Sigma lense. If anybodyis interested in getting in to film SLR photography this would be an affordable set up.

Cheers, Jack

[Harry72]

two main reasons:

1) US prices are always ex tax and ours always plus tax, thus $1210 is really $1331 after GST (Ted's price is only +$168 above this). The comparison is further complicated by a retailer's preference to call pick price points just below whole hundreds or whole fifties eg $899 not $900, $1499 not $1500.

2) Australia is a very much smaller market which translates to higher margins, higher transport costs, lower turnover and hence higher stock holding costs, etc


ian
Adding to that it comes with a 75~300 zoom as well as the standard 18~55 lense

[dan_tom]

If you're thinking of getting a Nikon D200, put your order in now. We ordered ours in January and finally got it in June.... apparently there is a huge back order and they are struggling to meet supply.

Photocontinental is down the road from us here in Brisbane.

Cheers
Dan

[Studley 2436]

Harry rather than tell you to get a Nikon and be happy *LOL* Ford no Holden no Ford no Holden

I would recommend that you have a look at the lenses you are getting they are what are known as consumer level lenses check here (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=169267&is=GREY&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation) and here (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=351554&is=USA&addedTroughType=search) to see something about them from the US supplier B&H. When they have apertures that vary between 4.5 and 5.6 you can be sure it is a cheaper level lens.

This lens 70-200 f4 L (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=183198&is=GREY&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation) is more likely a good thing. Constant f4 throughout the range and it is an "L" which is the moniker they use for their pro lenses.

Anyway have fun with it.

Studley could have told you more if you were getting a Nikon

[Harry72]

Yeah your right mate... FORD FORD FORD!

Yep the lense's that come with it as a package are cheapys but the 75~300 only adds $150 to the base price.
I couldnt afford to get real nice lense's, later on if photography becomes an obsession like being a woody I'll spend!

[Studley 2436]

SO Harry you are going to chuck your taxi and get a BMW or something and toss the Canon and get a Nikon, just as soon as you get some money?

Studley

[Grunt]

Anothere vote for Nikon. I've got a D50. I looked at a 350D but it felt cheap (a bit like Al) in my hands.

I would wait for a bit and get a D80 and a 18-200 VR Nikkor lens.

The D200 is a professional camera. It's a full metal body with weather seals. This is why the beast is expensive. I've had a play with one and it is a damn fine camera.

In my opinion unless you are going to print at greater than A4 size then any more than 6MegaPixels is a waste of memory and disk space. A 6MP image will print A3 at 167dpi which is fine unless you put your nose against it.

Chris

[Studley 2436]

christopha I am talking Swahili again OK

There is a megapixel myth. It is not the most important thing by far. My own camera is 4 megapixel. Have blown up many prints to 20x30 inches with ease. It is far more important to have a good exposure so that when blown up you don't get burnt out areas or others that are blocked out through underexposure.

Of course the lens on the front is important. The quality of the light falling on the sensor is a direct function of the diameter of the lens. The bigger the lens the better the image, simple fact of physical science. Thats why a compact just won't match it with a DSLR the lenses on those things are tiny. Not lashing compacts though they are great for the purpose intended. The whole thing you have to ask yourself is the purpose designed for the same as my purpose in having a camera.

Studley

[Stuart]

If you're thinking of getting a Nikon D200, put your order in now. We ordered ours in January and finally got it in June.... apparently there is a huge back order and they are struggling to meet supply.

Photocontinental is down the road from us here in Brisbane.

Cheers
Dan

That's where I got my Minolta DSLR from (Dynax 7D) 12 months on, and I still LOVE that camera. Course it didn't hurt already having $5k or so of glass for it already.....

Also didn't hurt getting it for $1100 BELOW RRP!!!! :eek: :D

I love Choice Magazine,
I love Choice Magazine,
I love Choice Magazine,
I love Choice Magazine,
I love Choice Magazine :D

[rockola]

Anothere vote for Nikon. I've got a D50.I have a D50 as well. My previous camera was a Nikon Coolpix 990, lasted five years and about 15000 shots before I decided not to bother with the fiddly battery door. Thought about getting a Canon/Pentax/whatever but I was so happy with the CP990 that I decided to remain a Nikonite. 2500 shots later still happy with my choice.


I would wait for a bit and get a D80 and a 18-200 VR Nikkor lens.The D80 sounds promising, but: I've sunk less than $1000 in the D50 with the cheapo 18-55 and 70-300 mm lenses. (Tax free rebate, 70-300 from HK, etc.) How much will the D80 retail for when it's finally available?

[Grunt]

I don't know what the Austalian price will be. The retail price for the body in the US is US$999 and with the 18-135 lens US$1299. The price will drop rapidly once they've been out for a while and assuming Nikon can keep up with production. I paid $1400 for the D50 nearly 12 months ago and I wouldn't pay more than $1000 today.

The 18-200 VR lens is about $1200. It's an excellent value walk-around lens.

[Jack E]

Harry,

Have you purchased your kit yet.
If not I have the 18-55 and 75-300 that I am willing to sell.
If it would save you any money to buy body only, it will do us both a favour.
Not sure of cost, if you want them we can come to some sort of arrangement.

Cheers, Jack.

[Harry72]

Yeah already paid for... oh wel dem's the brakes!
BTW, are they auto focusing?

[Jack E]

Oh well:)

Yes mate, they are auto focusing.

The 18-55 is the new lense made for the digi, which is signified by a white square on the lense where it attaches to the body.

The 75-300 is the old lense with the red dot.

I wonder if yours will be the same.

No big deal, just something I noticed when I got mine.

I think I read earlier that you had a 4 gig card, that will be more than enough.
I have a 1 gig card and never ran out of room after a pretty serious month of shooting including our wedding and honeymoon (we had a pro photographer as well as a 350D and 2 300D's operated by friends, I think all up there were about 2000 shots of our wedding day).
The wife probably took twice as many honeymoon photos as I did on the Casio Exilim, as someone said earlier, she took more photos as she had the tiny camera with her all the time.

Cheers, Jack.

[Studley 2436]

Harry you bought the gear and then asked later if it is autofocus.

Actually Canon came along with the EOS autofocus back in about 85. I don't think you can buy a camera now that doesn't autofocus. Mind you the mini cams with their tiny sensor are pretty much focused at any distance because of the huge depth of field but anyway that is not much about anything.

There is one camera actually that doesn't autofocus. Nikon still sell one of their old manual cameras. No battery at all. Everything is manual. I think it has through the lens metering but that operates on a selenium cell and raises a needle in the viewfinder. There is a circle that is on an arm that goes up and down depending on where you set the aperture. Anyway when you are in Africa where it isn't always easy to get batteries that's a camera you can use. People who do silly things like climb Everest love it too as it will keep working long after any camera that uses a battery has just died. Or at least the battery has lost it's charge from the cold.

Anyway way back when Canon ditched it's FD mount lenses and went to the Autofocus mount. People refused to believe it was anything more than marketing. Nikon who are the ones who invented the whole thing but couldn't make it work well enough to satisfy the standards they have before they let something out to the consumer sat on the sidelines for a while and Canon did a dodgy patent on them. Anyway then the whole thing came around and everyone has autofocus. Canon is boasting it's "Full Frame" sensor and Nikon hasn't made one yet because no one has been able to make one work well enough yet .

Funny how it all goes around. But it does give me fond memories of a Canon AE-1 I had which was a great camera and a FD200-f4 which was a lovely sharp lens. And of course photographing at the Australian GP when Prost won and you had to pick a spot and focus on it, then wait for the car to hit that spot. Amongst other things the camera does for you now.

Studley

[Honest Gaza]

Adding to that it comes with a 75~300 zoom as well as the standard 18~55 lense

Not according to their website. With both lenses the price is $1649 (not $1499)

[Honest Gaza]

Regardless of current price conjecture....I too will be purchasing the 400D this month. I'm heading to Hong Kong in October and had planned on buying it while I was over there. Unfortunately, further research showed that the camera is not covered under Australian warranty if I purchase it in HK.

So now I'll buy the Body and basic "walk around" lens (not the Canon Kit lens which gets ordinary reviews), before travelling to HK.....and then purchase a quality zoom lens while over in HK (because the lenses ARE covered by an international warranty).

One of the camera stores in the city (Sydney) indicated that the Body & 18-55mm kit lens will be selling for $1399.

[Harry72]

SO Harry you are going to chuck your taxi and get a BMW or something and toss the Canon and get a Nikon, just as soon as you get some money?
No Id spend money on some Felderhttp://www.ubeaut.biz/bowdown.gif and http://www.ubeaut.biz/icon_nworthy.giffestool first!
Not likely to spend much money on anything soon other than upgrading my $hit hole house to something nicer(with bigger shed... err workshop just dont tell thehttp://www.ubeaut.biz/gonnagetit.gif )


Harry you bought the gear and then asked later if it is autofocus. Nooooo I didnt... was asking if the lense's he's selling are of the AF kindhttp://www.ubeaut.biz/hehehe.gif


I think I read earlier that you had a 4 gig card, that will be more than enough. Going by the Canon spec sheet at max raw setting its about 9~10mb per pic so thats around 400 pics per 4gig card, and I got 2 of them!(I do get click happy at car shows)




Not according to their website. With both lenses the price is $1649 (not $1499) Yes I stated that! The $1450 was for the 350D with both lense's.


The Canon EOS400D/EFS 18-55mm/75-300 Zoom Twin Lens Kit deal from Teds looks good at $1650, or Canon EOS 350D with Canon 18-55mm zoom, and additional EF90-300mm lens at $1450

[woodbe]

the camera is not covered under Australian warranty if I purchase it in HK.

So now I'll buy the Body and basic "walk around" lens (not the Canon Kit lens which gets ordinary reviews), before travelling to HK.....and then purchase a quality zoom lens while over in HK (because the lenses ARE covered by an international warranty).

That is also my understanding, and a good plan. I've been surprised how negotiable the price is down at Teds... Bear in mind that you are likely to have to cough up GST upon your return to Australia if your purchases are above a certain amount (they always are for me).

There's a good reference for current HK lens prices here: http://www.ygdragon.net/ Just click on "Lens Price Reference List 鏡頭價目表 (http://www.ygdragon.net/photo/cameraprice.htm)" on that page. This is not a shop, it's a list of recent sales per lens. The prices shown are generally very competitive, but it's up to you to negotiate. :)

woodbe.

[Harry72]

Well it turned up today!

Had a play with it(the camera Ozwinner), please give crits on this photo!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/ST170ish/tester.jpg
Camera Model: Canon EOS 400D DIGITAL
Shooting mode: Macro
Shutter speed: 1/125
ISO Speed: 400
Lens: EF-S18-55mm f/3.5-5.6
Focal Length: 55.0 mm
Flash: On
Flash Type: Built-In Flash
Flash Exposure Compensation: 0
Red-eye Reduction: Off
Shutter curtain sync: 1st-curtain sync
White Balance Mode: Auto
Sharpness: 3
Contrast: 0
Saturation: 0
Color tone: 0
Color Space: sRGB
Noise Reduction: Off

[woodbe]

Hey Harry, that was quick for a new model to turn up!

The photo is ok, but you can do better :) The background is a little distracting and it all looks a bit flat. Needs better lighting to give some highlight and contrast. Seeing as the inbuilt flash fired, maybe it would come up better with some fiddling in Photoshop. Flowers like that are hard to photograph well, because of the depth of the flower - something is always going to be out of focus, the trick is in getting the interesting bits in focus. What F stop did you use?

A great photo has an interesting and balanced composition as well as being suitably exposed and focussed. That doesn't neccesarily mean everything is in focus, and often out-of focus effects add a lot to a photo, and reduce the effect of unimportant objects in the frame. This is one of the real advantages of a DSLR.

Knowing this stuff doesn't make it easy. I still chuck thousands of duds :) Actually, in the days of digital, I seem to keep them regardless unless they are really, really, bad.

woodbe

[Grunt]

Not a bad shot. The shallow depth of focus means that there is nothing interesting in focus to draw you eye. Also, it could use a tad more saturation. The colour is a little flat.

Chris

[Studley 2436]

Harry that is a beautiful self portrait. It shows you in all your glory! *LOL*

To give it a lift use levels in Photoshop to brighten it up a bit and then give it a touch more contrast.

Try shooting RAW.

And the photo I am interested in seeing is the stock pages of the Australian. Take time to iron them first and then tape them up to the wall and use a tripod to put the camera on. Set the lens Zoomed all the way out and move it so it frames the page neatly. Take the photo at F5.6 and whatever the wide open aperture is. Then Zoom all the way in move the tripod back and do the same again. That will give us a good idea of the resolving power of the lens and sensor.

Studley

[Studley 2436]

OK I juiced it up a bit

Studley

[Harry72]

Iron... whats that?

So use something with heaps of detail?(I dont have/read newspapers... ) What if I use my computer screen(24"LCD)
What do you mean by resolving, like the distance difference between full zoom and minimal?

[woodbe]

That will give us a good idea of the resolving power of the lens and sensor.

Here's why you should never discuss this stuff on the innernet :)

But Studley, I thought a lot of lenses didn't perform at their best at the extremes of their zoom ranges? Also, at 55mm F5.6 is wide open on that lens, the results might not be the best it can deliver :D

How are you processing your RAW files Studley? I've been trying out the Lightroom beta, and I have to say I'm pretty happy with where it's headed. Not really impressed with the Canon software, but previously using CaptureOne LE which I like, but I'm finding Lightroom superior for organising images, and some of the tools are unique in this sort of program and quite handy.

woodbe.

[woodbe]

Also, this is a good read (that is, if you would rather sitting down reading instead of going out taking photos) It's aimed at Canon EOS and the Pro's but lots of good info inside:

(Warning, it's 7.6mb if you are on dialup)

http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/eos_guidebook/index.html

woodbe.

[Studley 2436]

Lenses will show greatest distortion at either end of their zooming range. There should be a sweet spot somewhere in the middle but lets ignore that and see what is happening at the ends. Likely it will balloon at the short end and pincushion at the long end but that is up to the test to see.

The other thing is that you can look at the image of your newsprint and see if it is darkening or Vignetting in the corners and also you can see the sharpness in the middle of the frame and how much sharpness is lost going to the corners.

This is the resolving power Harry. Imagine you had a four pixel camera. The best it could do with the sheet of newsprint would be four grey pixels! you might even get a couple of the pixels being more white or black than the others. Of course having ten million pixels is a whole different thing, so looking at your blown up image of newsprint mainly is a lens test to see if the lines are going straight or not. You will get an idea though if there are funny sensor things going on. Chances are with the sensor you have it just won't be an issue. It's likely that the sensor outresolves the lens. That is the sensor could record more information but the lens is not able to reproduce the scene as accurately as the sensor.

MMMM enough bleating

Studley

[Harry72]

Thanks for the help Stevo, must go buy a newspaper!


Is there any sites I could visit that just gives the "general rule's of thumb" explained in laymens terms?
Most I've visited seem to think you know all these terms off by heart, or they expect you to read for 3hrs to understand something so simple!(you know what I mean... like a lot of subjects on the net a "procrastinated explanation", just look at some audio forums and you'll see what I mean!)

[Grunt]

Harry,

You should visit www.dslrusers.com. It's an Australian photography forum. Plenty of information and honest feedback on your photos.

I'd do a google on basic photography.
http://photography.about.com/od/basics/


Chris

[Studley 2436]

photodo is a great website. They have ratings of lots of lenses there although it is old. I am not sure what they are like there on new lenses. they do give a good explanation of MTF's (modulation transfer function) and what then mean and how to read them.

Kenrockwell is a highly opinionated Nikon site but he has good explanations of things like Bokeh in addition to a nice gallery. From memory he explains somewhere about lens performance and the way lenses work at different apertures.

This is stuff I looked at about 3 years ago when I was buying some lenses and was trying really hard to make sure I got a good one. I couldn't afford to make a bad decision.

So far as aperture the wider you go the more deterioration in quality you get. You really see this when you get wider than f2. The cheap Nikon 50 f1.8 for instance outshoots the Nikon 50 f1.4 but isn't as wide. Well 2/3 of a stop slower. Fast lenses are great.

Any lens will typically perform at it's best when it is stopped down a bit from it's maximum. There is usually a clear difference between wide open and 2/3 of a stop stopped down. Typically a lens will perform best at f5.6 to f8 regarding sharpness. Closed down more than f16 you get diffraction so there is a fall off in image quality ie it loses sharpness.

This is not a brand thing it is what happens to light when it passes through an aperture. Physically things happen that can't be alltered only designed around.

There are zoom lenses that perform and even outperform fixed length lenses but they are typically high end pro lenses. I suppose Canon has some "L" zooms on this level and Nikon has the 17-35 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 which are on this level. Expensive puppies allow $2500 for the 17-35 and I think it is something over $3000 for the 70-200

Mind you in Nikon if you really want some really really sharp images the 400 f2.8 gives almost perfect about 0.95 out of 1 all the way from the centre of the sensor to the outside corner. It is like a flat line all the way across teh sensor where you expect to see it losing resolution towards the corners.

To see something about all this check here (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/understanding-mtf.shtml)

18-55 MTF is here (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=149&modelid=10512)

75-300 is here (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=150&modelid=7444)


Something to be wary of is that Canon don't actually measure their lenses they do a calculation based on what they believe it should do and graph that. The other thing I notice is that the 18-55 is graphed out to 13mm or so because it is intended for digital sensors and the 75-300 goes out to 22mm so will cover a full 35mm frame. So where the long lens is falling away and losing image quality is way out past the edges of your sensor and doesn't matter

Studley

[Grunt]

My advice is to wait on getting an expensive lens. The kit lens will take great photos. I've got a Nikon D50 with th 18-55 kit lens. It's an OK lens but I've managed to take some great sharp shots with it.

You can take really fine photos at F22 or F4.5 with the kit lens. Sure, the more expensive lens' are sharper, faster and less distorted but most of the time you won't notice unless you print to A4 size and look at it with a magnifying glass.

I Cannon have an excellent 50mm 1.8 at less than $200. This would be a great portrait lens. It's very sharp and plenty fast. Here is a review (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-50mm-f-1.8-II-Lens-Review.aspx)

Before you go and part with $2k for a good lens, get to know your camera and concentrate on framing your subject.

This is a photo taken with the D50 with the kit lens.

http://www.users.on.net/%7Egril/dslrusers3/FrostyLeaves.jpg

Chris

[Studley 2436]

Grunt looking at the MTF's the lenses that Harry has got will give a pretty good result. I hope I didn't sound like I was saying that you have to get "Pro" lenses because I didn't mean that.

I like to shoot portraits with my 50 f1.8 which is a really good lens stopped down. Wide open it at minimum focus it goes pretty soft around the sides in particular on the left hand edge possible a touch out of allignment but this is a really good effect for portraits.

I think it is more important to know your gear and what it will do. Then you can use these failings and strengths to your advantage

Studley

[woodbe]

Agree regarding the 50/1.8 I bought one with my first DSLR because it was so cheap and had good reviews. I take it with me anywhere I need a small, light lens that I wouldn't get too upset about damaging. (Eg. the snow, I packed the camera in a beltpack.)

http://bellavist.com/blog/wp-content/photos/CRW_2301.jpg

woodbe

[Honest Gaza]

That is also my understanding, and a good plan. I've been surprised how negotiable the price is down at Teds... Bear in mind that you are likely to have to cough up GST upon your return to Australia if your purchases are above a certain amount (they always are for me).

There's a good reference for current HK lens prices here: http://www.ygdragon.net/ Just click on "Lens Price Reference List 鏡頭價目表 (http://www.ygdragon.net/photo/cameraprice.htm)" on that page. This is not a shop, it's a list of recent sales per lens. The prices shown are generally very competitive, but it's up to you to negotiate. :)

woodbe.

Change of plans.

Got a quote back from a Hong Kong site on the Canon 400D Body + Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 Lens for approx $1,500 AUS.

Camera House gave me a price of $2,049 for the same combination. That saving of $550 (if purchased in HK) will go a long way towards my second lens of choice - Canon 70-300mm IS USM. I'll make sure I use the camera in HK so any obvious faults are noticed before I come back to Aus.