Putting toilet in small bathroom??

[Mcblurter]

Hi all
Not sure if I dreamin' or not but I would like to know if anyone thinks it is possible to put a toilet in our small bathroom. Have attached layout. A rectangle with a bath/shower, will put in new basin but also wanting to put in a toilet. Have two little boys so when they grow up would be better to have a toilet close by (saves them peeing in the sink!! - We've all done it haven't wee?). Bath takes up most space, any room for a toilet. Other issue is that it is an old commission house. Concrete walls and a suspended concrete floor, just to make it real easy. Bath is 730 wide 1660 long plus a 320 shelf at end of bath. Room is 1980 x 1840
AM I DREAMIN'???
Mcblurter

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I'd say you havce to choose between the bath and the toilet. One or t'other. Shower, basin and loo would still be a tight fit, but doable... 'tis one of the reasons why so many modern houses are bath-free zones.

Given any though to fitting a bidet in the hand-basin and teaching the kids to brush their teeth in the shower/bath? :p

[sco]

Where are the window or windows in this room?

If you put in a 1400 long bath along the 1980 wall that would give you 580mm for a small vanity. Then you could put a loo on the wall opposite the door. Might be a bit tight with the door swinging.

Can you change the door so it swings outwards? What about a sliding door. This could free up the bottom right corner in your diagram and give you more room to fit things in.

[Mcblurter]

Sounds like a great idea! I think I'll lower the basin to about toilet bowl height!

[silentC]

I saw a bloke on the new inventors who came up with a toilet that has a hand basin on top of the cistern, so when you wash your hands, the water goes into the cistern. Get one of them - space saving and water saving in one hit ;)

[floobyduster]

Hi Mcblurter

Remember that baths are generally used by children and older folk, therefore I would suggest you should think of using a shub (small square bath under the shower) instead of the bath. This will have the advantage of being large enough for small boys, saves water and when they get big enough can then use the shower, (and they are OK for adults as well).

This will then give you the room for the toilet and a decent sized vanity unit - make it as big as you can with plenty of drawer/cupboard space for storage. Also don't forget to plan where to place sufficient towel rails. I suggest you consider in your upgrade suitable ventilation/heating/lighting unit.

If you go for a shub, get a combination mixer unit. If you go for a stand-alone shower get a shower mixer - they are great for young children - much safer to use as they can easily dial up the correct temperature and flow rate without having to fiddle with hot and cold taps. They will cost a little extra but are well worth it.

Hope this gives you food for thought.

floobyduster

[b1ueshift]

My bathroom is about that size and it's got a bath and toilet. I'll post some photo's if you like.

I've used some space saving ideas - shallow vanity cabinet with semi-recessed sink, replaced swinging door with sliding door, cut down some towel rails to fit in available space - also put in a laundry shute.

[Mcblurter]

Thanks everyone for the advice.
We don't want to change the bath, it's a ripper, we can all nearly fit into it! Boys love it and SWMBO and I bath together, saves water and it's about the only time we get to ourselves these days!!! Plus SWMBO would not allow the bath to go!
Doors are a problem with concrete walls. Can't open out as door closes against a concrete frame, so would have to remove 2 cms of concrete around whole door frame. Can't fit sliding door either, due to bath on one side and a cupboard that houses water pipes on the other. Other side is a wall to the kitchen.
SCO there is a small window at the top, which we would enclose as we are wanting to make a dining room out of our patio. Could possibly extend the top bit but would eat into our dining area.
SilentC I saw the toilet with the basin on top which was a great idea. Again SWMBO wouldn't like it aesthetically. We plan to have a small basin, and we could probably connect it to the cistern which would be a good idea.
Is there any regulations in regard to how much space you need around a toilet? Or what is practical? I'm around the 6 foot mark so would need around 700mm depth by 600ml width to be comfortable, just can't see how to get it in there unless I change the bath.
B1ueshift I would appreciate any pics you can send me.
Has anyone invented a foldaway toilet????? Could fit a vanity at the top and have the toilet swing out to a 45 degree angle when needed and sing back into vanity when finished (perhaps have a mechanism that automatically sings it back when flushed!!!!!) Surely there is someone smart enough on this forum to make that work?;)
Cheers
Mcblurter

"Ballarina's are always standing on their tip toes, why not get taller ballerina's?"
"I brought some second hand paint the other day, luckily it was the exact same shape as my house!" Steven Wright :D

[sco]

I can't see how you can do it without
A. rotating the bath 90 degrees and putting it along the back wall, freeing up space along the 1980 wall
or,
B. Reducing the room taken up by the door so you can fit more along the wall opposite the bath.

What about a bifold or trifold door?

[ian]

I think you can do it
In the attached picture which is roughly to scale, the area required for the toilet bowel and the person using the toilet is the yellow rectangle
the vanity is assumed to be 300 deep with an overhanging basin

It'll be a bit squeezy with more than one in the bathroom


hope this helps

ian

[sco]

The problem with that design is if someone is in the bathroom with the door closed and not locked they could be hit by someone opening the door on them. Something similar to that is what I was getting at with a trifold or bifold door, which would avoid that problem.

[ian]

The problem with that design is if someone is in the bathroom with the door closed and not locked they could be hit by someone opening the door on them. Something similar to that is what I was getting at with a trifold or bifold door, which would avoid that problem.It's not an ideal arrangement but to fit a toilet into that space without moving or deleting the bath (one of McBlurter's criteria) some compromise has to be accepted.

You either accept that the door is usually open when the bathroom is in use, or the user has to lock the door. I've a small bathroom in my house (1500 wide x 2200) and as a family we adopt the former option. However, visitors are encouraged to follow the later protocol.


ian

[seriph1]

bi-fold doors take up far less space and can be used with success in bathrooms - I fitted one in my Coburg Bathroom - it was great. Note that I mean a two-leaf bifold timber door...... not a concertina vinyl piece of crapola

[silkwood]

If you a willing to spend a little more (okay, quite a bit!) a wall-faced pan with a flush valve in the roof will save some space (no cistern to worry about. Pity you like the bath so much though:D .

Cheers,

Mark

[dazzler]

What about the shower over the toilet....now that would be blissful:D

[silkwood]

What about the shower over the toilet....now that would be blissful:D

Been there, done that in Borneo. Not what I'd call blissfull:( .

Cheers,

Mark

[Mcblurter]

Thansk again everyone for the advice.
Bifold doors would certainly be useful to look at. We probably could squeeze it but would be a squeeze. I still like the idea of a vanity across the top wall, with a swing out toilet, swinging down towards right wall, just need to invent it!!! Might ask on the plumbing thread.
We are looking at the only other option which is to extend bathroom. We have a small area we can extend on the door side, into a hallway. If we do this and shift bath up then may have the space. Just working out whether the cost of shifting plumbing, tiling etc is worth it for an extra toilet. Will keep you posted.
Thanks again.
Mcblurter

Doing nothing is very hard to do...you never know when you're finished.
-- Leslie Nielsen (http://www.amusingquotes.com/h/n/Leslie_Nielsen_1.htm)

[seriph1]

I am the one who mentioned the bifolds - I still think you'd be wise to carefully consider them - the other option which appears quite possible by your drawings, is a cavity slider - it's work, but far less than extending

[Bob Willson]

My question is "Why would you want to have a toilet next to you when you are trying to bathe?"
I had a disagreement with my wife over this particular issue and she now says that she is soooo glad that she listened to me. Unusual that last bit. :rolleyes:
If someone wants to use the toilet and another person is in the shower then a period of discomfort will ensue. On the other hand, if someone has just used the toilet and somone else wants to brush their teeth then a period of discomfort will ensue. All in all there is lots of discomfort ensuing about all over the place. PLUS it just don't seem hygenic!

[seriph1]

My question is "Why would you want to have a toilet next to you when you are trying to bathe?"

because this new inclusion will likely result in there being more than one toilet in the home, I imagine. This is always seen as a benefit - and after all, it is only us boys who smell bad

:D

I for one am not a fan of dunnies in bathrooms, but recognize it is how many folks have their ensuites..... I guess that's what makes it an ensuite..... should be called an en-sour in my opinion. :D:D:D:D:D

I admit I will be putting an additional toilet in our en-suite, except that it will literally BE a suite....of rooms..... large walk-in-robe - bath room, with double vanity and shower and in between both of those areas, a dunny - in its own room down a short hall way and with door, appropriate ventilation and extraction.

My wife never wanted a dunny in our en-suite, but then she is Malaysian-Indian, with all that entails (entrails?) (contrails?)

It feels like curry tonight!

:)

[Sturdee]

My question is "Why would you want to have a toilet next to you when you are trying to bathe?"


Both our bathrooms have a handbasin, toilet, bath and shower. No real problems IMO.


Peter.

[Bob Willson]

Both our bathrooms have a handbasin, toilet, bath and shower. No real problems IMO.Peter.

But, Peter, it is probably because you do indeed have a BOTH. What if you only had one off. Would the same dynamics still apply?

[seriph1]

I just did a few more mental calculations ..... with a bifold door opening against the wall, you have enough space for all you want to do. Also, as mentioned I believe, shifting the bath across the back wall you could put the toilet to the side of the door way, which is the preferred spot IMHO.

Finally, I ate my words and ventured down to Schots to see if they had become more customer focused. While they still need a huge amount of work in that area, I did see a couple of things that might be useful to you or others - they had dual flush loo's made from copper - cute'r than hell but importantly the cistern is tiny and mounted high on the wall, therefore helping keep the space requirements way down because the pan won't need to come far out from a wall. For that matter they had traditional high-set ones there too, made from timber. they were developed by Don Savidge of Schots and work extremely well, ONCE you put a restrictor in the flush pipe - otherwise you get a bath (and need one) each time you flush.

[Sturdee]

But, Peter, it is probably because you do indeed have a BOTH. What if you only had one off. Would the same dynamics still apply?

Bob, I think it would depend mainly on the number in the household, we only have 3, my daughter mainly uses her bathroom and we use the main one, but the other is always available and not too far apart.

On the other hand if with a large ( or smelly :eek: ) family it would be different.


Peter.

[Sturdee]

What about these fold down basins and toilets they used to have in the interstate trains of yesteryear.

Haven't seen them in ages but they may be a solution.


Peter.

[GraemeCook]

What about these fold down basins and toilets they used to have in the interstate trains of yesteryear. Peter.


But the railways dropped everthing on the train tracks. Hope the bathroom is not above the living room! Or the workshop!


Mcblurter, could you move the bath a little, reducing the shelf area, and then you would have room for a sliding door. Otherwise a folding door looks the only option.

When looking at no cistern/remote cistern/compact toilets then look carefully at the seat size. Colleague installed an ultra modern compact toilet where the seat is more compact than his backside!

Cheers

Graeme

[Bob Willson]

I can't seew hy the door can't open outwards.
If you replace the current (concrete) frame with an extended (timber) one, will this then overcome the problem?

[Mcblurter]

Hi all
Thanks again for all the discussion.
Looks like we would have to move the bath.
either up to remove the shelf but then also need to extend bottom wall, and put toilet at bottom end of bath, although still not much room.

Or move bath 90 degrees on top wall, put toilet in bottom left corner and sink on left wall.

All costly so really have to look at whether it is worth the cost for having an extra loo. They are after all two boys and my experience as a boy I think I everywhere but the toilet (we had a fantastic lemon tree, I also had 3 brothers!!!!!) I might invest in a few commode chairs or at least a potty or two!
cheers
Mcblurter

[Mcblurter]

Just revisiting this for those interested.
We've decided to put in a 320 x 320 sink next to the top end of the bath (top wall) no vanity, and place a toilet in between the sink and wall ( a space of about 700) will get the most compact toilet we can (around 330 x 650) so gives us about 185 each side. Isn't main toilet and three boys and one female (my wife is compact too!!) so shouldn't be an issue.
Builder is reluctant as is draftsman, both want a sink on the side wall, but for us it isn't convenient getting kids in and out of bath, also placement of cupboard (on top wall), mirror, door opening etc would need to be changed and also towel racks etc. Have thought long and hard, cut out life size sinks toilet out of cardboard and reckon it works. Builder is very approachable so will be our first disagreement so will be good to wee how we all handle it.
Then I just have to get him to put in hardwood floor instead of a floater, in the other part of the reno!!!!!!
Cheers
McBlurter

[bulldog]

Just a thought although by now you have started to make your plans more concrete, have you visited grizzly.com? I know this may sound strange but on their website under construct your dream shed you can put in the dimensions of your space and I think from memory it is under additional structures or the like and you can add in a bath and toilet etc. just to see how it much space would be left. (remember to convert to mm as the site is in inches, just call up an online conversion website) Also another alternative to the storage problem would be a storage centre over the toilet a google for storage ideas would probably let you see what I am refering to. (one that has sides that go to the floor and the storage cupboard above the cistern)
Hope this helps and doesn't throw your plans into jepordy. :doh:

[BrissyBrew]

What about the shower over the toilet....now that would be blissful:D
Dont laugh I have seen this in China. Imagaine a 1200 x 1200 room shower with a small vanity which drains to the floor. The floor drain is also the squat toilet pan. The shower head is directly above the squat pan. One of those occasions you definately dont want to drop the soap, or loose your step in the shower.

[jags]

Hi Mc blurter

I have the same kind of issues as yourself My bathroom is 1.65m x 2.30m
so longer but thinner and i am also trying to add a toilet . I agree a second toilet is very handy to have and will add value when i come to sell the house .

if you go into the reece plumbing website they have a bathroom planner very handy ..:) :)

i also think the bifold doors are the way to go you can get some really nice ones nowdays and it would free up some space .

i'm sorry to hijack your thread but how are you doing the plumbing for the new toilet ? Are you tapping into a existing sewrage pipe or creating a new one . Are you working on a concrete slab ?

My other toilet is behind the left wall of my bathroom so i was going to dig up the floor and tap into this pipe .But have been told that if the sewrage pipe is shallow then it will be hard to add a tiolet as the new pipe need to slope down .

i am also getting a sewrage plan of the house from the master plumbers apparently all houses should have one .I don't know if this applies to you but will be very handly to have .

Regards rob