Finding buried utilities

[Crom]

Hey crew

Im digging up the back yard in an attempt to a) find sewer and b) lay power cable to my new workshop.

Said shop has a washroom / toilet so I need to find the sewer. I have council plans and the 1100 dial before you dig plans but I havent been able to find a thing following them. To make things interesting the neighbours have all found that the sewer runs differently to the plans anyway (for their houses.)

So what I need to know is are there electronic line finders or radio detectors or something that I can use to listen in (say, if the toilet is flushed) and find the bastard? And if so, where can I hire one in Perth?

Thanks for your help
J!

[Eddie Jones]

Try a water diviner. No, I'm not joking.

[Crom]

You're joking right? :)

Where do I find one of them? I have looked at the yellow pages and only found bore drillers etc.

Cheers.

[Ramps]

Crom

Best way I know to "sense" this type of pipe is a devive called a ground-penetrating radar (GPR) as you can tell they work on radar and bounce back a signal that shows a change in conductivity and/or density ... pipe being empty or full of water should be relatively easy.

Problem is the only units that I know of in Perth is the ones operated by pipe and underground services locating businesses ie prob expensive (but I don't know so I'm guessing here). There might be one availablr to hire but being about $10k to buy I don't think they'd be cheap.

So yes the technology is out there, yes it is in Perth but sorry can't help further than that ... can assist you looking them up if you need.

[Cliff Rogers]

Do a google on Underground Service Locators.

Do a Yellowpages search on Underground Service Locators

Check here...
http://www.radiodetection.com.au/undergroundServices.htm
http://www.geodetic.com.au/category970_1.htm
http://www.usa.com.au/usa/Utility_Locations.asp

[Clinton1]

start digging, stop when you find it. Its fun. It really is! ;)

[silentC]

Had to do this once. I dug up the line where it left the house and got a rough idea which way it headed. I knew there was a vertical pipe into the main, so I drilled a hole in the pipe and shoved a bit of stiff wire in there until it stopped. I wrapped a bit of tape around the wire and pulled it out, then used it to gauge where the bend was. Then I started digging a trench perpendicular to the direction the line was running and kept going down until I found it.

[RufflyRustic]

Hi Crom,

If the map or plan can't be trusted, then it may be worth paying some $$ getting them found once and for all. I can appreciate it may depend on exactly how much $$ would be :rolleyes:.

cheers
Wendy

[Cliff Rogers]

.....shoved a bit of stiff wire in there until it stopped. I wrapped a bit of tape around the wire and pulled it out, ......

Erk.... what did you do with the wire after that? :D

[silentC]

My next door neighbour wanted something to tie up his fence with. I said "I've got just the thing" :D

True story ;)

[zathras]

Sewers tend to be laid in quite deep trenches - much deeper than you'd use for the power.

One upside, I assume living in Perth you'd have reasonably easy digging in the sand?

[journeyman Mick]

Crom,
one sure fire way of locating any services is to get in a excavator or backhoe and start digging!:eek: I once watched a backhoe dig up the water, phone and power in the first two scoops. Seriously though, I have seen diviners find stuff, an old builder I worked for years ago found a buried water mains in a few minutes. Apparently diviners won't/can't take money for their "gift" lest they lose it, or so I've been told. That maybe why you won't find them in the yellow pages.

Mick

[silentC]

Wouldn't the sewer need to be full of water for a diviner to find it? If it is, you'll probably need to dig it up anyway, because it's blocked ;)

[Cobber]

Try www.dialbeforeyoudig.com.au (http://www.dialbeforeyoudig.com.au)

Do it on the web and the utililities will start sending out info that day.....

Cobber

[Glenn_M]

When replacing the storm water pipes a few years back, before digging up the old ones the plumber located all the old ones (to give me a quote).

Anyways he used a thing quite like a metal detector. Had a flexible hose type arrangement with a metal ball on the end. Shoved it down the pipe at the house and wandered over the back yard with this metal detector looking thingy and staked out the location of the pipes every metre or so.

Don't know if it was just a metal detector or not - found the pipes though.

Cheers,

[Crom]

Alrighty. Im digging already. :)

Because of where the plans say the pipe is and as the electrickery needs to run the same way, I have a trench a meter wide by almost two meters deep already. Its a good ten meters from the side of the workshop to the fence, and Im only a foot away from that. Yep, Perth dirt is sandy. Im allergic to shovels now. I havent the access space to get a backhoe in.

Thanks for the suggestions. I have messaged Subsurface Detection, a GPR mob in Perth. I hope they can sort this out, I want my shed in operation.

[GraemeCook]

My brother and I helped mum save money by doing the labouring for a plumber working on her sewerage pipes.

The plumber got the plans from the council, measured her backyard and two neighbours yards; measured everything again... and said "Dig here."

We dug and dug and dug, and could not find the pipe. The plumber said "Keep digging" so we dug some more and still no pipe. He said "Keep digging" so we dug some more and still no f****ing pipe. He said "Keep digging" and we eventually found the pipe, eight feet down.

We still wish we had been digging in nice soft Perth sand and not sticky clay-loam.


Cheers

Graeme

[macca2]

Where your sewer drops vertical into the sewer main there should be an inspection point. Usually a plastic cap on the vertical pipe.
Have look in there and seeif you get the direction your sewer is running and how deep.
Dig down about a metre from the inspection point and find the pipe.
Repear every metre or so along your pipe back to the hous.
Good luck, macca

[JDub]

We dug and dug and dug, and could not find the pipe. The plumber said "Keep digging" so we dug some more and still no pipe. He said "Keep digging" so we dug some more and still no f****ing pipe. He said "Keep digging" and we eventually found the pipe, eight feet down.


Ouch, my hamstrings and shoulders feel your pain.

[Wombat2]

I use the diviner method every time without fail. works great for power and phone lines as well. I read a book about 30 years ago called "Psi- psychic research behind the Iron Curtin" according to that the Russians found 85% of the population are sensitive to divining. I thought "Oh yeh!" and gave it a try - gave me a hell of a fright when it worked the first time. My wife even dropped the wires in fright. Take two wire coat hangers and straighten out to make an "L" with 18" long arm and 9" short arm (lengths were found to be important) Hold one in each hand by the short arms with thumbs pointing up and the long arms pointing straight out and parallel to the ground. Walk back and forth over the area of search and if crossing the feature at right angles the wires will swing in and form a cross. Keep walking and count the paces till they uncross and swing out and point back over your shoulders. If going the same way as the feature then the wires will line up parallel to each other across the front of your body. The depth to the feature is half the distance at mid point. Water has to be flowing, electricity forms its own "field" and if looking for metal carry a sample of it in your hand. (hint: if wearing a gold wedding ring there will be enough brass in it to locate brass pipe fittings)

Before you laugh yourselves silly - TRY IT - you will be amazed!!

David L

[Eddie Jones]

I use the diviner method every time without fail. works great for power and phone lines as well. I read a book about 30 years ago called "Psi- psychic research behind the Iron Curtin" according to that the Russians found 85% of the population are sensitive to divining. I thought "Oh yeh!" and gave it a try - gave me a hell of a fright when it worked the first time. My wife even dropped the wires in fright. Take two wire coat hangers and straighten out to make an "L" with 18" long arm and 9" short arm (lengths were found to be important) Hold one in each hand by the short arms with thumbs pointing up and the long arms pointing straight out and parallel to the ground. Walk back and forth over the area of search and if crossing the feature at right angles the wires will swing in and form a cross. Keep walking and count the paces till they uncross and swing out and point back over your shoulders. If going the same way as the feature then the wires will line up parallel to each other across the front of your body. The depth to the feature is half the distance at mid point. Water has to be flowing, electricity forms its own "field" and if looking for metal carry a sample of it in your hand. (hint: if wearing a gold wedding ring there will be enough brass in it to locate brass pipe fittings)

Before you laugh yourselves silly - TRY IT - you will be amazed!!

David L

Like I said - I'm not joking. I had a similar experience. When a mate explained this water/power/sewer etc etc divining to me, I laughed my tits off. Until I tried it. Found I could do it, and I do believe nearly everyone can. As long as you give it a fair dinkum go. No giggling and farting around. What I do is think of the thing you are trying to find. If power, think of wires sparking together, water, think of a waterfall, etc. Try it, as Wombat says. You just may amaze yourself!

[echnidna]

according to the oldtimers you can even find Gold with one.

[Crom]

Far out!

Well, I just got the quote for the GPR. At $350 I think I'll be quite serious when I bend those coathangers.

Cheers
J!

[Wombat2]

according to the oldtimers you can even find Gold with one.

According to the Russian reseachers the gold location "moves with the sun" only time you are directly over it is when the sun is on the horizon at dawn :(

[Ashore]

A lot of the locals at Lightning ridge use them and swear by them , (or was it at the results :rolleyes: )
But No joking they do use divining rods at the ridge to find opals ;)

[scooter]

My family (self included :) ) are all dyed in the wool sceptics, but we were all amazed when my brother was open-minded enough to try the coathanger divining thingo when looking for a water pipe in his back yard. Found it in quick time.

Dunno how, but it worked.


Cheers..............Sean

[Master Splinter]

Here's a quick read on the success rate for water divining (http://www.skeptics.com.au/articles/divining.htm), when tested properly.

If you know anyone who is really good at it, there is a (US) one million dollar prize waiting for them (http://www.randi.org/research/index.html).

[Wombat2]

I know there are sceptics but I know what I know. Finding the wife's small silver earing in 2 foot high grass when I wasn't there when she lost it., finding buried pipes and phone lines when they weren't where they were supposed to be, finding a lost engagement ring at the beach. I don't know what really is happening and the sceptics can't tell me. I just know I can do it.

[silentC]

There must be something in it that only works when you're not trying to prove it works, because no-one has ever been able to do it on demand under test conditions.

Maybe you're just really lucky ;)

[outback]

Divining is all witchcraft, smoke and mirrors. Grow up and smell the roses people. How the hell can all this happen. It can't. End of story.

Onlt to add, why the hell does it work for me?

[Crom]

Well, I have found the bottom of all that "lovely Perth sand." Now into a nice white bed of limestone and cap rock. At least I know I dont have to dig through that...

Havent got any metal coat hangers so Im waiting for the missus to bring some home.

[Master Splinter]

The general reason why "X" (where "X" is your choice of divining, faeries, guardian angels or whatever) "works" is that people are not objective data recording devices - people cherry pick their memories.

You remember the successes, but dont count the failures. All those times that you had to spend half an hour or more looking around the house for your car keys, wallet, bradawl, No. 2 phillips head screw driver, router bit spanner, table saw....all those experiences - since you had a hard time finding the object - were nothing special and they dont tend to stay in your memory.

But finding an "unfindable" object against the odds is a memory that will stick out in your mind. Over a period of time, you'll be able remember a number of these special events, and bingo - instant special power, divine guidance or luck of the Irish.

[Cliff Rogers]

Divining is all witchcraft, smoke and mirrors. Grow up and smell the roses people. How the hell can all this happen. It can't. End of story.

Onlt to add, why the hell does it work for me?

1. You are a witch. :confused:
2. You are a smoke. (Or something it got out of. :D )
3. You are a mirror. (I've seen some fairly ordinary looking mirrors. ;) )
4. You haven't grown up yet. :rolleyes:
5. You don't know what a rose smells like. :cool:


The wires crossed for me too but I was too lazy to dig to see what was under the ground. :D

[silentC]

If you believe you can do it, then why not go for the million? What have you got to lose? I'm even tempted to have a go, you never know, I might get lucky ;)

[Clinton1]

I've seen it work, I've seen it not work.

I don't care, so long as it works if I need it. Lots of better ways of finding things though - usually expensive. :rolleyes:

[outback]

1. You are a witch. :confused:
2. You are a smoke. (Or something it got out of. :D )
3. You are a mirror. (I've seen some fairly ordinary looking mirrors. ;) )
4. You haven't grown up yet. :rolleyes:
5. You don't know what a rose smells like. :cool:


The wires crossed for me too but I was too lazy to dig to see what was under the ground. :D


1. No, but my wifes reckons I can do some magic. :eek:
2. No, see answer 1.
3. I certainly reflect peoples attitude towards me. :p
4. No way. :p
5. Yes I do, particularly after a big feed of baked beans.



Your serve. :p

[The Big O]

Hey Crom, you're on the wrong track. The Water Corporation has the plans for your sewer, not the local council. They will have what they call a "flimsy" which is a plan of the sewerage lodged by the original plumber. I think there is a small charge for it.
regards, Lionel.

[Crom]

Hey Big O,

I got the plans for $11. Not much better than the dial before you dig ones. They show that the connecting sewer runs into the mains. But there are no measurements from boundaries, fences etc.

[meerkat]

Telstra can't even tell us where to start looking, but yet they hold us responsible for the cable:eek:

[Ekim]

See the above post from Macca2. The main sewer line should run parallel to your back fence. As Macca states, there will be a final inspection point that consists of a vertical pipe from your sewer pipe to the surface (in may be difficult to find if you have a build up of mulch, leaves etc). Once you have located the inspection pipe, run a string line back to your house. Dig a cross trench until you find your sewer line.

I live in a house built in the 1930’s two suburbs from <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/<st1:City>Perth</st1:City>’s CBD– the sewer line was only about 1.5 metres deep. I understand that under current regulations, domestic sewer lines don’t have to be that deep.

[joe greiner]

This thread started in August, so I hope Crom has finished his project by now. For anybody else, consider:

Underground pipe is usually straight, otherwise at significant bends of any pipe, a cleanout is needed. In street sewers, pipes are generally straight between manholes. So, if you can identify two ends, e.g. inspection point and exit from your house, a string line should give you a good indication of where to search.

I distinctly remember back in 4th or 5th grade, Sister Mary Whatever told us, "If you don't learn this stuff, you could wind up as a ditchdigger." So, I learned that stuff. Then I went to high school, and learned more stuff. Then I went to college and learned more stuff. Then I went to work and learned still more stuff. Finally I retired a couple years ago, and seriously worked on my house. Recently I built a retaining wall with a drain pipe. Damned if I didn't wind up as a ditchdigger anyway. :D

Joe